I am reading a lot on Divorce Busting AGAIN. A method on how to interact with your mate. I have read books and listened to CDs on how to treat you wife to fullfil a woman's needs.<p>I provided well for our home financially. I was always home spending time with the family. I helped out with the chores. I wrote all of the love notes. I told her I love her daily. I asked her opinion on things. I never forgot that special occasion. I cuddled with her and held hands. I always tried to listen to her problems but unfortunately I tried to fix things most of the times.<p>She told me she left me because I was controlling. I don't know what the means. For example, I went to a marriage counselor and she explained it this way. I ask "Would you please empty the trash?" That is considered controlling because it does not give her an option. But the X would tell me "Come over to empty the trash" Her way seems more controlling to me. My marriage counselor says I was supposed to say "Would you like to empty the trash?" and give her the option to say No.<p>There are times she would pick a fight right before we were supposed to go somewhere. I didn't want to go anywhere angry so I would say Let's discuss it now. She would say let's discuss it later because I want to go to the event now. I would tell her not to pick a fight right before going. She would think this was controlling because I wouldn't want to go with her until we resolved our problem.<p>Also, 5 minutes before going anywhere I would go to the bathroom and tell my 4-year-old daughter to do the same. I thought we were preparing for the day's journey. My X would think that was controlling too because we were not running out the door on her schedule. <p>Last night the new owners of our dream home were moving in. I spent yesterday moving the Fridge, Washer, and Dryer out to my townhome. Instead of getting a Thank You or no phone call at all, the X yells at me because I didn't clean up the dust where the washer and dryer used to be. She orders me over there. I say I am not doing anything until she is nice and apologizes for yelling. She yells at me "This is why I left you. This is a controlling act." I just didn't want to be yelled at. <p>When I get over to the house I am furious for being yelled at. I don't want to talk to her. But she is standing there cool and collective. When she got to the house she realized it was only a minutes worth of work. She tells me "Thank You for coming over but I have already done the work". She wants an amicable goodbye but I can only keep my mouth shut.<p>To me these acts were not enough to break up a marriage. But she thought otherwise. I want to change myself but every time I am in contact with her lately I react instead of thinking first. My emotions are too raw at the moment.<p>How do I stop reacting? I want to stop being controlling in my X's eyes. Even though I don't want to be with her now I have hopes for one day down the road to reunite our family. How do I stop being controlling?

DD,<p>What if you are not controlling? What if it's not about you at all? What if she just has someone else and is using this as an excuse?<p>You can not concern yourself right now with what she says is controlling....Set your own boundaries...this is about all you can do.<p>ANNA

She complained about this once before when we separated for a few months years back. I wonder if I have a problem because my mom is very manipulative. I recognize mom's traits and I try to avoid them but I know things creep in once in a while.<p>It is not like I am directing her every day actions. But the small interactions once in a while drove her away I guess.<p>I figure I need to halt my contact with her for a while and continue to work on myself.

OK,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I always tried to listen to her problems but unfortunately I tried to fix things most of the times. <hr></blockquote><p>details on her problems would be nice for reference. however, have you ever heard of the socratic method? you haven't? i didn't think so. . .<p>first, when she is telling you her problems, listen, and then say one sentence that assures her that you are listening, and acknowledging. . .
then ask her what is she going to do about it? this question puts the responsibility of solution onto the person with the problems. . .<p>you see, controlling is actually taking responsibility for something that is not yours. . . such as her solutions, supervising her actions, asking her to do a common chore. . . assuming that she is not doing something that YOU think she should be doing or should have done. . .<p>practical solution:
in conversation, only use the word i in sentences, and only use the word you in questions. . its that simple. . . meaning you can talk about yourself and how you would do something or how you would solve the problem, but never use "you" as the subject of the sentence"<p>secondly, if you need to use the word you, only use it in a question. . . . "are you going to take the trash out?" likewise, why should one even be asking that question, why can't you get off your lazy butt and help out. . .<p>People who are controlling EXPECT that something should happen in a predefined way. . . how about you practice having NO EXPECTATIONS of how someone should act, behave, look. its not your responsibility, you are not the president of the company that they work for. . . in fact, a relationship is NOT A HIERARCHTICAL RELATIONSHIP AT ALL!!!! it is more like the congress, just with two people instead of two parties. . . or two houses. . .<p>Adopt the mantra: "if I don't like the way someone else is doing it, I will do it myself. . ."<p>adopt another mantra: "If I can't say something nice about someone, I won't say anything at all." why? would you rather that they wonder if you are controlling, or would you rather open your yap and have them know that you are controlling?<p>Finally as far as responding to X's demands. . . you have to define boundaries and then enforce them. . . which means<p>if you don't like getting yelled at, you say " I will not be yelled at. . . . if you continue yelling, i will walk away. . ." and then if she does, you say nothing, turn around and walk away. . . and don't force an apology. . . that will come in time. . demanding an apology is controlling. . . again, that is telling someone else what to do and how to act. . . .<p>are you starting to get it yet???????????<p>wiftty<p>[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

Before my husband and I separated, the counselor that I was going to and I were talking about why my husband thought the things I was saying or doing was controlling, and why he wouldn't do anything around the house. Of course, he would never go with me, so she could never get his side of the story. But her advice to me was different than your counselor's advice. She told me the reason he wasn't helping was, I was being too nice about it. If I needed him to put his laundry away or throw something out, instead of asking please, tell him it would really help me out if he would do those chores. When I went back to her with the results, which were him getting upset with me no matter how I said or asked something, she believed there was something more to the reason he was acting this way. He would react to how things were being said, this way he could avoid what was actually being said. She convinced me there was nothing controlling about what I was asking him to do.

DD,<p>I keep think about you asking her to take out the garbage...Why not just take the garbage out yourself?<p>ANNA

Based on what you've written, I'm wondering if your W is the one that is controlling. ????<p>See, my Controlling/abusive H (counselors have confirmed he is) constantly blames and accuses me of being controlling. He projects onto me what is his problem, thereby not taking responsibility for his own ways and correcting them. As I have grown stronger and set normal personal boundaries, he also considers that control, when actually he's the controller who won't respect my boundaries.

Renae is on to the next step of the help process:<p>careful listening to the words from the W.<p>if she says: "I feel that you . . . . ." that is projecting, and is a trap for an argument. "You made me do this. . . ." is also childlike refusal to accept respnsibility of one's actions. . . .<p>"I feel that you don't love me." is a projection design for manipulative purposes. . . I lived with a grand manipulator, and i used to just ignore the child like pleas. . . now, i was trying to be drawn into an argumentative trap. . .<p>if i disagreed, she could have projected her interpretation of what i did onto me, and try to get me to accept it, and expect that i would be then trying to either not do it again or make it up to her. . . .etc. . . <p>if i did agree to it, then she by default gets to control the interpretation of situations by her being the "authority of interpretation", and you eventually end up doing nothing for fear of not being correctly interpreted, or constantly asking her for her permission, and then she is in total control. . . .<p>now, once i figured this whole game out, i used to just ignore it. . . which of course, being her modus operandi, used to drive her up a wall. . . because this is how her parents related, and now she is imitating it, and the results she got were not what she intended, but quite the opposite. . .<p>of course, to her, this is all my fault when she talks about it. . . however, i also see from her actions with the kids, she does feel very guilty and tries to make it up to them in the wrong ways. . . . .<p>my X also refused to go to counseling with me because she knew that i knew the games that people play, after doing a lot of research and educating myself. . . therefore, i was "too independent" as she said, to make her a good partner. . . get the connection: she loves dependency on her, and that is why she treats the kids as they are her boss. . . . so they get used to her doing stuff, and then she can use guilt, and then for this, she can get that. . . <p>my 10 year old daughter tries those very same tricks with me, and i tell her the trick won't work. . . which hopefully will lead her to realize that a good man is one that is not manipulated, but one that is direct and honest. . . and boy, with the stupid stuff that comes out of the kids' mouths as to what they are learning at the X's house, its all designed around pure manipulation and self justification. . .<p>and when they get to my house, they take awhile to relearn respect, honesty, directness and self reliance. . . .<p>good luck, but read up, you can learn alot. . .<p>wiftty

One REALLY handy phrase that I learned when I wanted to ask for something and not be accused of controlling is...
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Would you be willing to ... <hr></blockquote>
It gives them the chance to say 'no' or 'yeah, but not right this second...' and spares a lot of misunderstandings...<p>What has happened to me is that my H has caught on to this attempt to communicate in a better way and he accuses me now of trying use psycho-babble talk with him... Can't win.<p>But, at least I feel I'm learning to display respect in a conversation. Well, that was the start... THEN I had to be WILLING to live with the answer... if they're not willing, they're not willing. You want it done, do it yourself! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] People are generally helpful if asked nicely... and given the option to participate... they may test it to see if they really do have the option... i.e. would you get huffy and upset if she said, "Actually, no I'd rather not." You need to think that through before you "go" there.<p>Blessings!
Nicole

I'd read about the love busters again - there is a whole book dedicated to that topic by Harley. Personally it sounds as if your wife has the problem and that no matter what you did she'd find an excuse to leave - my WH says he left because I wouldn't have my clothes put away as soon as they were washed - left them in the laundry basket for too long. And that I didn't greet him at the door.<p>But in the interest of trying to make sure you are turning out to be the best person you can be, I'd try to identify your LB's, fix them, and see if that helps. It will help you in any future relationship, even if it doesn't in this one.<p>K

DD,<p>I look at it just like wiftty. It's kinda like the book "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus". I find it interesting that you felt like you have to fix your wife's problems (not criticizing, just an observation) because that's how most men react to hearing the wife talk about something bad she's experiencing. Usually the wife ONLY wants an ear, just someone who will just hear and listen, that's all, no fixes needed. Kinda like we do here, vent and blow off steam and hope someone will listen and understand. It's all in how men and women perceive things and I think WIFFTY has real good suggestions on how to bridge that.<p>I was also accused of being controlling - that I wanted him to "fix" all my problems and he didn't think that was fair, when all I wanted was to be heard and to be cared about. I wish I had gotten even half the reactions you gave your wife! Somehow I think this "control" complaint is a universal one they grab on to. I actually see your wife as more manipulative and controlling than you, because she tries to control you by calling you "controlling". Maybe you aren't acting like your mother, maybe you just married someone like her.<p>Take care.

WIFTTY,<p>I do not think that there is any reason to make such a condescending statement:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>however, have you ever heard of the socratic method? you haven't? i didn't think so. . .<hr></blockquote>

My wife and I almost separated very recently over the same thing. I read about every book that I could find on every applicable subject. One that I found that may be of interest to you is called "Controlling People" by Patricia Evans. It is atually written for the person who is feeling controlled, but it gave me a lot of insight into things that I never realized I was doing that was controlling. <p>Like you, I am a great "fixer", but that is the problem, I tend to fix rather than avoid. read "Relationship Rescue" by McGraw and all the Harley books. They all helped me find things that have helped me change. Also, a book Called "The Lost Art of Listening" is good. I can't tell you the difference these books have made in my life. so much so that I recently found out somethings about my wife that would have completely thrown me over the edge a few months ago, but since I had learned and changed so much over the past 2 months, we actually were able to use the experience to reconcile rather than kill each other. I held it together when I had every right to completely loose it. That made her really see that I had changed regardless of whether she thought it was possible or not. I am alos much happier with myself, which is the really important part.<p>My wife's stated problem with me was my controlling actions. I never realized that I was controlling. I always thought that I was making choices for the good of my family. Don't let that fool you. Read these books. Take the information that are contained within to heart and see if you may feel differently. One of the best lessons I learned was in McGraw's book on Relationship Rescue. He said "Its better to be happy than right." I had always thought that living and being right was the best thing that could happen. I was terribly WRONG!!!<p>Take care. Stay strong. Hold your tongue. You might start being able to hear what she is really saying. Don't be petty. Do the absolute best you can at all times. Therefore, if she has a problem with what or how you are doing things, then you will know that you have given it your best and be able to live with yourself.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Like you, I am a great "fixer", but that is the problem, I tend to fix rather than avoid. <hr></blockquote><p>avoid is not the best answer either. . .<p>the solution is support, being open to being asked for your opinion, and NEVER say, "well don't ask my opinion if you aren't going to take the advice." that shuts down all future communication, and is designed to be controlling. . .<p>all ego, very narcissistic. . . .<p>you can support by asking if she has thought about x,y,or z? (again note, the subject of the sentence is "you", but only in a question.) which is your viewpoint, but then agian, if you are dealing with someone that wants to be right, then a different opinion is always threatening. . . . in order approach that type of person, you must make a boundary agreement ahead of time. . , you detail your response if the boundary is not honored, and then if the boundary agreement is not adhered to, you walk away, you make an exit. . or whatever you agreed to. . . <p>simple as that. . . <p>takes alot of practice to get good at, but make that gaol your weeks goal, write it on a peice of paper, and keep the paper in the shirt pocket, and when you interact, read the piece of paper first. . .<p>wifty

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Doodle's Daddy:
<strong>She told me she left me because I was controlling. I don't know what the means. For example, I went to a marriage counselor and she explained it this way. I ask "Would you please empty the trash?" That is considered controlling because it does not give her an option. But the X would tell me "Come over to empty the trash" Her way seems more controlling to me. My marriage counselor says I was supposed to say "Would you like to empty the trash?" and give her the option to say No.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I recommend heading on over to Harley's Q&A Columns and reading his articles on Control. (There are three of them, and they are excellent, in my opinion.)<p>If you are reporting accurately, I am puzzled by your counselor's advice. In my lexicon, saying "Would you please" does indeed give the option of saying "no".<p>Maybe you have been controlling, and maybe not. My wife accused me of being extremely controlling too, although she didn't make that accusation until after she deserted me. The irony is that long before she left, I had learned to avoid asking her to do anything in order to avoid upsetting her. I even felt guilty about asking her to endorse a check so that I could deposit it for her.

The articles were very interesting. I didn't know she could feel the way described in the letters.

who said she feels the same way as you would? you see, feelings are emotional, and very personal, and with some, they are pretty devoid of feelings. . . i only have a few. . . my X has so many, i can't or couldn't keep track of all of them, they would change from minute to minute. . .<p>suppose she is using the sentence structure to justify her actions. . . and fogged in existence?<p>you have to set your boundaries, and let her feelings fall where they may. . . that's all you can do, with her or any other partner. . .<p>good luck
wiftty