For those of you who know me, SNL is my WH. I am so out of it, I can't think, eat, concentrate, I cry all the time, been crying for 7 days now. Yes, I am on Zoloft, Xanax for anxiety, herbs, etc. Nothing is helping at all. I want to end my life, I don't have anyone in my life anymore. My father is gone, lost him in the beginning of this year. He is the only man who has never rejected me in my life. Also, my mom saw on TV that with my H affair and my fathers illness and then death - that I am unable to grieve in the normal process. That the affair and his unwillingness to mend this marriage has taken all out of me, and I am going into a 2nd depression because of not being able to grieve for my father. She said that this depression is worse, and it is harder to get out of it. Who the h*ll cares, if I die.<p>Husband doesn't really help me much. Just says it hurts and trys to touch me. But how can he touch someone that he doesn't love, doesn't care about, doesn't care about the hurt I am experiencing. The hurt from the D day, to the anger he displayed, to the cussing at me, to throwing things at me, to pushing me on the ground, to telling the kids that they are no good. To saying that the OW is the only one he loves, he never loved me. I needed this venting, cause it hurts so BAD!!!!<p>Life sucks! Big time!

Thinker..
I don't come to this catagory ever but when I was headed down to the RECOVERY site..I saw your name highlighting and am a little farmiliar with you. I stopped to read this and it breaks my heart so much to hear the deep pain and sadness in your words...Please don't say who cares of you die..LOTS OF PEOPLE DO CARE..Your MOTHER...Your KIDS..Your friends..People at MB...Its so heartbreaking...I'm curioius..if the OW is so great and so perfect, why is he home? Why is he not living elsewhere. He should have ZERO contact with her if he is back in your home.
God my heart goes out to you. You sound so sad and hopeless..My situation is different but I suffered through a 10 year depression and felt like that many many times..for other reasons but depression is depression. What can I do for you? What can I help with? I wish I could hug you in person but here ((((( HUGS)))))...your post breaks my heart...
God Bless You..Please let me know more..Why is this man in your home? Why is he allowed to live there...? Im confused about that...

Sorry Thinker..Leaving MB site...I posted this then something went down and I decieded to leave MB...but please know that you have lots of support...Write to GSN/LAURAlucks/Kathy and Jan..and happy husband..they will help you..they are the best...
Good luck..I will pray for you

Dear Thinker,
I am so sorry for your pain. I have felt that pain. I can only tell you, that for me, it did get better. My H left for a few days after DDay, and I went through what you are going through, in fact, my sisters brought me to the hospital where I was then sedated. I was also taking zoloft and xanex. My husband went through a very distant period, tore the closet door off of the wall, screamed at me, told me that it was over, and I cried and begged him not to leave me, while he kept trying to get away from me, screaming at me that "this is the f.....g end!" He came to reality when my then 12 year old son, whom had always adored his father told me "Mom, just let him go, he's a jerk!! Leave Dad, I hate You!!"<p>I'm telling you this because he has done a 100% turn around. I would never know that he is the same person. I want you to know also that there are people that care. I care. I know that your children care. I don't want to be preachy but, if you happen to believe in a higher power (God)?
that was what helped me through. A few years ago, I thought that my life was over too. But things can get better. I really feel for you and send you the very best wishes that I can think!
mt
bs-w-age37
h-ws-age 43
m-19y
2c-14-18
dday-march 2000

Thinker,<p>I haven't posted to you in the past, but I have had words with your H (few of them civil). I don't know you at all, but I DO believe that you are worthy of love, and I don't believe you're getting it from your marriage. <p>From what I've seen of SNL's posts to, and about you, there is very little respect there. You deserve so much more. I'm sure that this probably isn't the man that he's always been, but it's the man that he is now.<p>The only advice I could possibly give you would be to distance yourself from this man that you're bound to right now. Get away, get separation.<p>Please give yourself some time. I hope that just a little time will reveal to you the love that YOU have for yourself. That's really what the Harley plans are all about. Find the inner beauty that lives within you, and encourage it to grow. None of this is easy, I know, but we're all here to help you through it.<p>Protect yourself and the kids first. Regardless of whether SNL is right or not, regardless of whether he's as smart as he thinks he is or whether he's just being smug, there's nothing that you, or any of us can do to change that. THAT has to come from God and SNL. You can only do what's right for YOU, and for the kids.<p>Please take care,
Kev

Thinker,<p>I know the pain seems unbearable right now, but it does lessen. The name of this post put me in mind of something my mother once told me...<p>This was in relation to childbirth. She said the pain was bad, but bearable, because you knew there was a new life (baby) at the end of it. Can you see that whatever happens, your life will be new, too, after all this pain? <p>It is up and down all the time, and even when separation occurs, it is the same. Currently I have been on the down side again, but I know I will bounce back. I know you will, too. You are worth it. <p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Dear Thinker,
you tried to help me so now it's my turn.<p>WE CARE FOR YOU; YOUR KIDS CARE FOR YOU; YOUR MOM CARES FOR YOU!<p>And believe me it is truth.<p>Do not allow this selfish man to destroy you
Do not cry for him, he is not worth of those tears.<p>I am in your shoes, I understand you completely.
I can't say I do not cry any more but
You and all MB friends are right they (SNL and my ex) are not the only one in the world, we deserve better!<p>I still can't imagine some other man tzakes the place of my ex but while he could so fast change me I hope some day I'll do the same.<p>Please write, vent but do not have such dark thoughts.<p>(((((((((((((Thinker)))))))))

Quote from betrayed and desperate:<p>I am in your shoes, I understand you completely.
I can't say I do not cry any more but
You and all MB friends are right they (SNL and my ex) are not the only one in the world, we deserve better!<p>Betrayed, this is thre strongest I have EVER heard you!!!!!!!!!!! You go girl, this is the first sign of your steps forward!!!!!!!!!<p>love and light, <p>Jacky

We have counseled with Jennifer and STeve Harley. Back in April when we were counseling with Jennifer, WH was still in contact with OW, Jennifer asked WH to leave and leave that night. WH of course said no, this is my house, this is where I belong. He slept in another room. He talked to the OW everynight on their cellphones. He went ballistic, called all of us here names, etc. Jennifer would ask WH if he is done talking with the OW, and he would say give me a couple more weeks. After 3or4 times of this and he still continued to talk with the OW, Jennifer told him she is done talking to him. He continued talking with the OW till July. The OW dumped him, and then she called me to coerce me and manipulate me with suicide. If my WH and I were to tell her H.<p>WH did move into the same bedroom for a few months, but again, the same thing. I was giving him his breakfast at his computer, dinner, etc. Computer was in the bedroom as well as mine is. He moved his back to downstairs. He to me seemed to sit at his throne and had pleasure in being served. I did like doing this for him, I enjoyed having him in the same bed, very little sex, I enjoyed having conversations at night when he went to bed around the same time as me. I am a human with emotions, and needing love. <p>I spent the night at my mothers house last night, she now knows more about the affair. One last detail to tell her, and reluctant to tell her (the sex part). She quizzed me last night, but I can't put this pressure on her with all that she has had to deal with the loss of her husband, my father just recently. <p>My mother saw on TV that I have been depressed and that I am unable to grieve for my father in a normal fashion with all this betrayal around me. I could feel a shadow falling on me, I could feel the downness coming on, would tell me WH and he really didn't do anything to say he is there for me. Like last night, he swore in the hallway coming to see me, (really encouraging to hear from your WH) tells me to get a grip on life, it is all in your head, you can get a stand on life if you wanted to. He says you are wallowing in your depression - really was so encouraging - WH doesn't say I feel for your hurt and want to hug me. It is so analytical and this man just doesn't know what compassion is. <p> [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Thanks for all your hugs! Came home, husband talks to me upstairs, no hugs, no I miss you, no I really care about you, I really wanted you home last night, I really couldn't sleep because of your emotions. SAys did you sleep at your moms, is going to your moms good, did you feel it helped, he says he feels that going to my moms is not beneficial. <p>WH says he needs to get out, said in about 2 weeks, asked where he should go, I said you figure it out, asked if he could come here to eat, I said no. I want a Plan B. I do care about him, but I feel the need for him to figure out what he wants, and learn what being single will be like. He comes back with why do you have to be so angry? Does anyone here get this guy, I don't? The anger he says about me, just like coming up to see me last night, tell me that wasn't anger, cussing and swearing. <p>THis is it, the start of the end. I wanted to believe our marriage would be saved, I wanted to continue to have a life together, SNL didn't want this from the beginning, and now he is getting what he wanted at the start. It is so sad that he doesn't love me, and I still love him. We are so compatible in so many ways, care deeply about each other, and the love could of came back. But as many of you see, SNL does what he wants and that is it.<p>Thanks for all your encouragements. So far am doing pretty good, not happy, just able to live from minute to minute. Wish I could feel your HUGS!!!!!!!

thinker,
I have read many of you posts... along with your husbands for a while now. Alot of your husband's views on life and his personality to an extent are alot like my husbands.. when I first found out about my H's affair I was furious.. hurt.. you name it.. I tried it.. but .. correct me if I'm wrong. . But at least in my case when I began to focus not so much on the OW things became much easier for me.. and my H also did NOT want to try he had totally given up hope, but once I began a true plan a.. things were still really bad at first..well they stayed the same which was really bad.. but then little by little.. very teeny tiny baby steps I began to see a change in his attitude.. sometimes he and I would start to slip back and start all over again, but evantually it really started to become more of a lifestyle than a forced "meeting Emotional Needs" The reason I tell you all of this is because I may have just missed something but I haven't really seen that either of you have truely tried a GOOD plan a.. Before you go to plan B.. I know you are tired and sad.. I was too.. I would cry at the drop of the hat, but then through some reading at several places, i realized that my husband didn't want to see some crying sad woman, he needed to see someone strong.. someone that he *could* fall in love with..and once I began to start acting happier... i really began to *feel* better..Even if i cried later, when I wasn't around him..it really helped everyone involved to act happy ..I don't know if I am making sense at all but I just really think that your marriage could work.. I see alot of potential.. I know I am not there at your house, but I think there are some positives (ie. SNL isn't still in contact with the OW, he is still living in your house) I think alot of times men like our husband's get frustrated when they can't *fix* a problem and they dont' like to talk *feelings* and that is ok.. that is the way some people are made.. we, as their spouses, have to learn how to deal with this.. maybe for a time .. just even not talk about feelings.. just SHOW them how we can change.. but become a better/stronger person for yourself, not just SNL.. I have so much more to say but not enough time.. I just wanted you to know that I feel your pain.. If you want to email me.. I would love to talk.. my email is bridgettjones44@hotmail.com I just hate to see a marriage go down the tubes.. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>af

(((((Thinker)))))<p>I am so sorry for you pain. I have been where you are in your relationship to a point. Once my h moved out, I still tried and tried to make it work. Then he said he wants a divorce. Got worse again, but now I know I am better off without him. It sure didn't feel like it at the time. I DON'T WANT HIM AS MY H ANYMORE. He decided the direction of HIS life, I WILL DECIDE on the direction of my own. He is being VERY ugly in this divorce, but I know that I will be ok in the end. I will live a good life and he can have the one he chose.<p>You are a strong woman. You're still here and fighting to be in the world. You stood by your h even after all the bulls**t he put you through. People do care. Reach out to people around you. I have made SO many friends through all this, but I had to reach out to them. It was hard and all I wanted to do was crawl into a hole, but because of my s I just COULDN'T. I am so glad that I didn't. I am going to survive and I will forever be able to say, "I NEVER CHEATED"<p>Do/find something that makes you feel good about yourself or that you enjoy. You deserve it.<p>Jess

Thinker<p>I am so sorry for you pain. I know all TOO WELL what you are feeling. I have been battling depression for years. At this time last year, H left me for OW. He is now back and we working on the marriage, but I still find myself fighting the depression and some mornings it's all I can do to get up and not stay in bed. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I can say the moving about and getting on with your life helps. Force yourself to do it. Walk. Take long walks. DO you have a pet you can walk? Get a dog - take it for walks. I have 7 - one for each day of the week - seriously. <p>Please don't take your life. I have been there. I vascilate between living and not living like this. It took a lot of intraspection but it's not that I wanted to do so much as I don't want to continue feeling this way. It's the pain we are trying to avoid. You are loved. And if you really concentrate you will hear the voices of those you thought would not have given you a second thought. <p>I'll say my prayers for you dear. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

I am so sorry for your pain, thinker. A while back you had found a support group is that still happening? Really the sooner he gets out the better off you will be. Have you talked to a lawyer yet? Please take care of you and try to put him out of your mind; very difficult to do I know. He is NOT worth your time or energy, thinker the way he is right now. I can't believe he had the nerve to ask if he could come home to eat after he moves out!!!!!!!!! Incredible! He is beyond a doubt the most self absorbed individual I have ever encountered anywhere! You need to set very clear boundaries with people like him because they have no respect or consideration for anyone but themselves.

Goodness you poor thing.<p>Go outside for a walk and look around. LIFE is BIG and beautiful!!! Get a book called "Self Matters" - It is excellent!<p>While there is plenty of support out there and I highly recommend that (try Al-anon, etc.) I'd also recommend staying busy -busier than you've ever been . Create work for yourself if you need to). If you ever wanted to learn something - now's your chance. If you like to do art - paint like crawy, if you like to play sports- ragain your youth by getting back into it... STAYING BUSY IS KEY!!!!<p>Best wishes and good luck,
Jack

Without gory details... There were a few days in late December or early January when I found myself doubled over in agony. I had been trying to repair my marriage too. But it wasn't to be. There was just too much damage done. And I sat there on my sofa staring at two bottles - pills and booze -- and sobbing. Planning my own death. Realizing I would need to give some things away. I started by giving my own precious children to their father so that I could do this. I KNEW that I would not be here to experience February of 2002. <p>I don't know what went "wrong" with my plan. Many things fell into place, suddenly and without my prompting. And I began to heal. It wasn't forced, wasn't expected, but maybe it was in some small corner of my soul WANTED. Maybe I had to feel everything before I could heal? It was 19 months after Dday. Too long, is what everyone else said. But obviously exactly how long I needed to begin healing. <p>Let yourself feel everything you are feeling. It's real. Don't be bullied by anyone into making decisions or moving on to the next page before you are good and ready. You are precious, and your children are precious, and you have been deeply, callously wounded. You need to heal at your own pace. My only advice to you is to not act on any impulses. I am still in awe of every moment that I feel "good" because I never believed it would happen. It can. It will. When your time comes. <p>Peace, <p>Snow

Thinker,<p>If ya'll are finally ending it good for the two of you. I don't believe in divorce & I think the 2 yr fight I did for my marriage speaks for itself, but there comes a time in the stuggle to save a marriage either work on it or get out. No one could tell me that, I had to learn it the hard way.<p> since the STBX left last June, I have been happier. there have been lots of sad days and I still think it was a waste to throw the marriage away BUT I HAVE BEEN HAPPY.<p>I don't live with the stress of the day to day wondering how much he was talking/seeing/emailing the OW. Wondering when he leave. Seeing the effects of living with us on our OS (he acted out) everything. <p>the day STBX sent me an email telling me he was quiting his job, going to OW and that my home had been packed & sent back to the states was a day of peace. I have been at peace since that day.<p>I am poor, in debt and no job at the moment but I am still at peace. I have days when I am very happy and having more all the time. MY OS will never be who he was pre-A but his very dangerous behavior is over.<p>I can sleep at night. If you like to see examples of the pain I was once in do a search & read my posts from last yr till June. I cried, whinned all over GQ2 for months.<p>MY STBX was a lot like SnL in the fact even to this day HIS A is still all my fault. I don't think he will ever forgive me for leaving him open to temptetation & he could never understand that I forgave him 2 yrs ago for being human. some people just never get it.<p>You can & will surivie this and he happy again. there is life out there & no I don't have any social life at the moment, I am happy with my self.

sing...MY STBX was a lot like SnL in the fact even to this day HIS A is still all my fault. I don't think he will ever forgive me for leaving him open to temptetation & he could never understand that I forgave him 2 yrs ago for being human. some people just never get it.<p>snl..I say very little about anything thinker posts (did early on, but led to huge fights, and whether I agree or not with stuff she says is really irrelevant anyways, she is on her own path as are we all), she needs to do what she needs to do, and I am glad she can get support, but occasionally something needs to be clarified (or maybe at some point, I cannot resist being defensive, I dunno).<p>sing, I have followed your travails, I am nothing like your H, and would do little like he does (from the info you presented). I have NEVER blamed w for the affair, nor would I, blaming another for your own actions is the height of ignorance.... I may be a lot of things, but ignorant is not one of them. Nor do our marital difficulties have anything to do with the affair, they were pre-existing, we entered the marriage with them, and eventually we (both of us) entered the 3rd stage of withdrawal, what now most psychologists are recognizing as de facto emotional divorce...indeed, the marriage only existed legally. I now understand why that makes one vulnerable to developing friendships, and then relationships with op...if I could go back, I would have done what everyone always beats up the ws with...why didn't you tell me, and divorce first...well it is cause we didn't understand either, that simple. <p>So now we have struggled with the real interpersonal issues, and the differences are irreconcileable, but I have to accept bs will never accept that, blaming the affair is too easy, and an obvious way to deal with the trauma of marital dissolution. I am trashed all over the boards re the affair, and I say little.... I doubt most realize the affair ended almost 8 months ago, that ending the marriage has nothing to do with the affair, and that the only one who keeps making it the issue is my w. Had the affair not occured, the outcome would have been identical, I was done, I had already decided I would not live the rest of my life like this (or watch my w suffer as well)...we stress each other too much, simply cause of who we are, and how we fit..... my error was not taking her up on her many offers of divorce last few years, she was right that is what we should have done, but I was reluctant to give up my concepts of duty and vows, and we had to finish getting kids raised. Maybe apart the air will clear enough to find a new path, maybe not, but regardless I will never abandon my responsibilites to my w, or not be whatever part of her support stucture she needs...... nor do I blame her in any way, she is an imperfect human just like me, and the rest of us....but she is also a good woman, had pulled her weight, and done the best she can...as have I. For those who want to brand me a defective self-serving a***ole (including my wife) so be it, a label I will have to wear....but life is not always about getting what you want, many times it is dealing with what you have.....divorce is not just an end, it is a beginning also, and life will always be what you make it, if you have the courage to do so.

Snl,<p>You know my STBX most likely wouldn't want to be compared to you either. But maybe it is ya'll SO logically thinking that reminds me of each other. I am not logical, could you tell. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>He did blame me for his A, he has to blame me to live with himself, you would have to know him to understand. But our marriage had problems who was more to blame most likely both of us equally. He blame his job, the travles, etc. I blame us both for just not putting our marriage first. It was a waste to throw it away. Unlike you he could never give up the OW but even after the meanness of moving us back to the states, he is a great dad, & we are very cordial and willing to work with each other. He may never admit it but he knows he owes me the relationship he has with our boys.<p>But the point of my post to Thinker, was not to BASH you in any way but to point out that sometimes the pain lessens with the ending of the marriage. Mine did. And if you are familar with my saga (sorta fells like one of those old movies, travils of sing) you know this time last yr I was almost insane with the pain that I was living in at the time.<p>Even though I disagree with the witch lady shrink, she was right in one point our living arrangements at the time was killing our OS. He couldn't bear living with the stress & pain that he saw in his parents. He is happier today than he was last yr, even though he still swears that Singapore was the best yr of his life etc.<p>I still believe with my whole heart that the STBX & I could have worked everything out IF he could have broken with the OW. he was not strong enough to do so & she wouldn't let go. So we are all better off than we were a yr ago. <p>I am at peace and being at peace is under valued. <p>I just hope to the 2 of you can find it.

I understand sing, nor did I feel bashed or anything, that post was the result of many many posts re my person (sometimes not defending oneself is not a good idea, people forget who you are).... I think it is almost a mantra, """"I know we could have made it work if we just _________ (fill in the blank)"""""""" thing is, IMO that is part if denial, fact is many times life just does not work the way we want it too, and depending on how we fill in that blank we are attempting to alter reality, or even change someone into something they simply are not... My life would be "great" too if I could make it work like I want it too....ya know? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>IMO people can get into a place where divorce is needed to clear the air, it is not just an end, it is a beginning too.....but really it is neither, and therein lies the problem (and I just made a long post on other topics re this issue), it is simple a shift in the relationship boundary of two people, that's it..... is not the end of life... There are pragmantic concerns, but those can be dealt with equitably, and is not really a reason for or against marriage.<p>Yeah I can see you are not logical...most women aren't....... (ok gotcha, and for the more dense distaffs out there...that was a JOKE). Logic is only part of it sing, it is useful, and how I mainly cope, I understand now others may be more emotionally oriented, and cope accordingly too. It is very hard for me to watch thinker be so distraught, and I am willing to do all I can to mitigate it, but there is nothing I can do, she has to deal with it herself... trying to "fix" stuff all the time is part of my contribution to our difficulties.... we need space between us, and my efforts to try to make sure she is ok first actually are hurting her more I think, hard for me to accept that....and hard to accept her emotional response to all this is how she has to cope and get through it...but it is very scarey to us anyalytical types.<p>sing...But the point of my post to Thinker, was to point out that sometimes the pain lessens with the ending of the marriage. Mine did. And if you are familar with my saga (sorta fells like one of those old movies, travils of sing) you know this time last yr I was almost insane with the pain that I was living in at the time.<p>snl...Yeah, I know, I keep telling myself the same thing, this is so doggone painful, but there is no way around it...seperation is painful (or should be if people are decent caring types). And talking about how one still has a relationship and connections and caring just inflames everything, it is NOT helpful, been hard for me to realize that...I am compulsive about trying to make things "better". I would like to think the stories about people who go through a hard place like this, and then realize they don't have to hate each other, and that life is not over, and find other paths that have value, and are good people are true.<p>sing...Even though I disagree with the witch lady shrink, she was right in one point our living arrangements at the time was killing our OS. He couldn't bear living with the stress & pain that he saw in his parents. He is happier today than he was last yr, even though he still swears that Singapore was the best yr of his life etc.<p>snl..Yes, I have come to understand there is a special kind of stress at these times which is pretty intolerable, and has bad outcomes, sorta like surgury I guess, get it done as cleanly and quickly as possible, so healing can begin....don't sit there and keep picking at the wound until it is all inflammed and diseased, and so forth.... I am probably guilty of not being decisive enough, and that is my problem.<p>sing...I am at peace and being at peace is under valued.<p>snl...Amen, that was very insightful sing, and a good focus. ...good luck in your travels<p>here is one for you.....life is an adventure, not a destination.

SnL<p>I guess what i really wanted to say to both of you was that the ending of my marriage brought an end to the pain, not only to me & the STBX but to our OS also.<p>I don't agree with you about believing we could work it out being part of denial but I don't want to debate it either. <p>Just the 2 of you need to find peace. Letting go is hard I hung on for 2 yrs in the face of well lets not go there but peace is better than hell I was living in.