This is my first time on Marriage Builders. My 40 year old wife of 10 years had an affair for close to 8 months. She met him at her highschool reunion the summer before last. I found out about the affair last June, after many negative changes were occuring in our marriage, including support when offering our kids guidance. <p>We tried to work on it for 6 months, but I wasn't getting anywhere and then found out she had talked to him on the phone. I asked her if she wasn't going to work on it, to please move out, which is what she wanted to do. She moved out on December 15th, and is happy with the lack of responsibiltiy associated with being a part time mom. She is a good mom when she is with the kid's though.<p>We have a 4 year old son and an 9 year old girl that we split time with 50/50. I have gone through a mid-life crisis over the past few years, and my wife is in a situation where she is confronting many of the issues from her childhood. Tonight she told me she is interested in dating someone different than she did in the first affair. She hoped that I would wait and try dating myself, but I told her that I would rather get a mediator and move on with a divorce. She asked if I would try to date, but I told her I had moral issues with it, plus I was concerned with crossing that line and the fact that I might not come back. I have tried to wait this out to see if she would go through the necessary critical self-reflection, but this seems like to much to take. Your feedback would be appreciated.<p>New Beginning

NB,
This similiar to my situation. My now xw, had an affair back in May 99. She was 40. She also said I should start dating. I never did till after the divorce.<p>It sounds like she may be having her own MLC as I believe mine did/is. I say is, because she still places herself, her job, and the om/h before the kids.<p>Will your w come out of it? It is hard to say. There are a number of websites out there on MLC. Someone will probably let you know of good ones. I believe one of the sources even gives a time period for a MLC to last.<p>Whatever the cause, it takes time. This is where Plan A comes into play. Read up on Plan A.<p>Hang in!

Dear New Beginning,<p>My heart goes out to you and your children.
It sounds to me that your wife's mid life crisis centered around her disbelief of who she has become. If she was at a High School reunion, did she go to school with this person? If so, he may have reminded her of who she once was.
May I ask, if this was her high school reunion, did you accompany her?
If you were going through a mid life crisis of your own, and did not go to her reunion, this tells her that you are not only emotionally unavailable to her, as well as uninterested in knowing her past, everything that makes her who she is.
She is going through a mid life crisis. She is not sure who she has become and is trying to discover herself(the reason for analyzing childhood issues that she has yet to deal with)
I am in no way condoning her behavior. I have serious moral distastes for adultery. However, I am trying to give you probable knowledge of her thought process. Which is NECESSARY if you want to work on the marriage.
As to her dating suggestion to you...
Dating is a learning experience. One learns important information about themselves as well as other people.
However, I think it inappropriate for her to even suggest.
It's a funny thing about couples who have suffered an affair. The guilty party admits fault and seems to move on, puzzled why their spouse is left to wallow in the tormented emotions. They simply think "I've moved on, why can't you?" They were'nt the ones that were hurt.
You must weigh out the good and the bad of the marriage, before and after the affair, and both mid life crisises. And perhaps the most difficult, you must weigh out the future. Will you ever trust her they way you used to?
Last but not least, if she is not willing to work on the marriage, it won't survive. No matter how great your energy is, you cant make up for what is not there.
You sound strong, and will only strengthen with time. I am terribly sorry for what you and your children are going through. I wish you the best. She may not be the woman you once pictured spending the rest of your life with, but just as you didn't picture this, you might not be able to invision the angel who will one day grace your presence and soothe your soul either.
P.S. What was your mid-life crisis if you don't mind my asking?

Thank you both for your responses RWD and hadababyizaboy. 4:30 in the morning and can't sleep. In regard to the Mid-Life-Crisis, I should do a bit more research on this issue, but I don't want to continue to subject myself to endless pain or what could be some sort of co-dependency with no results. I guess, when is enough enough?<p>My counselor stated that it can take some people with deep issues several years to make a dent, and that requires a counselor that has built a solid relationship with them. My wife has been seeing her own counselor but only every couple of weeks. She doesn't really seem to make a concentrated effort at researching out the real issues here. I beleive that she may be searching for this missing support in any relationship that she can grab on to, and hopes that everything else that I offer her comes along with it<p>She talked about going to her counselor jointly a couple of weeks ago. I felt that she had not built up a strong enough relationship with her counselor yet, so I explained the analogy of what my counselor had said about buiding a relationship of trust which could help her work through her deep seeded issues and that we could then go together. My hopes started to build at this point, and I think I emotionally started to open myself up to the pain that I am feeling now. The reason I didn't want to start something with her counselor is, that we have already seen three counselors since we have been married. Two of these counselors, including the marriage counselor we saw after the affair (and who I am presently seeing), have by her perceptions, taken my side and have said that I am showing remorse for any of my past issues, so why can't she work on her anger and un-pack it all. This has in turn caused her to run from each of them.<p>After planning out what I was going to say to her, I typed in my notes and reiterated the following as diplomatically as I could: "It is really now your job to reflect and work on you. Long term, I can’t be the rudder that’s steering this relationship. You still don’t appear to know what you want . If you say what you want, you need to move that direction. Do you want to pay the price of marriage, growth, intimacy and raising children together on one page? If you do, you have to be able to share hopes and fears to enjoy the relationship. This is something you really have never been able to do with me."<p>Hadababyizaboy, in regard to the reunion, I was actually there. I met the guy and talked to him for a while. He seemed nice enough, and that I am sure is why my wife called him and began their relationship.One thing that she did tell me was missing, was passion. However, her close friends as well as her have explained that we have a lot in common and that our love making was fantastic. This I can't figure out.<p>My wife has placed herself out on an island. Her family has rallied around me, yet still try to support her as a sister. Her closest friend and confidant told me that I was quite a catch and she wasn't sure what my wife was going through. Her second closest friend alienated herself from my wife, because she told her that she was always envious of the way I showed my affection to her in public and was always there for her. <p>Several of the local neighbor wives have also said that she just doesn't appear to understand what she has with me because I have always been there for her, even when we were having difficult times.<p>I am not meaning to relay that I have no faults, because I do. I beleive that I have taken my wife for granted in the past. One way of doing this was by having my own affair with my work. I went through a President's Forum group that helped me work torward balance in my life, and then went in February to the Center for Creative Leadership in Colorado which was run by Dr. David Campbell. This was the break through I was looking for and lead to the critical stages of my own MLC and searching for meaning. <p>No matter how hard I have tried since though, I have never been able to break through the barrier that my wife keeps up to protect herself. She lost her Mom and Dad at a young age of 6 or 7. She went into an orphanage with other siblings and then a foster home. I can't help but to feel sorry for her and what she may be going through. However, I can't control her and her anger. She holds things over my head from our first year in marriage. The counselor has told her that she is holding on to small things that are probably more related to abandonment then anything.<p>From a long term trust stand point, who knows what I can expect from her or myself. The only thing that I have held out hopes for is critical self reflection on her part. The psychologist told me that if there is a chance that she goes throught this reflection, she will be trust worthy again and you will see it in her face and actions. I guess the chances of this taking place in an acceptable time are low. That is why I have been trying to be anxious for nothing.<p>Sorry for the lengthy explanation, but I guess I felt a need to explain more, and how hard I have worked at this. <p>Thanks again, and more feedback is appreciated!<p>New Beginning

Hi New Beginning, I LOVE your name!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I hope you do get that "New Beginning" -- that's what I was looking for when I named myself too! I did find it, by the way, but not as I expected.<p>My story is very, very long, and I won't write it all here and bore you to tears. But I will try to "nutshell" it, because I think it might help you.<p>I was married for 20 years to a man I was deeply in love with... who was a good man in many ways... and a very bad man in others. We went through hell, and back, and back again. He cheated several times in the 80's and we seemed to come out of that, although he never did "come clean" completely (and I mean, even still). But that's not the part of the story I want to share with you... it's about ME. <p>When I turned 40, I began to question EVERYTHING. Looking back, it was classic, but IN IT it felt new and scary and downright FREAKY. I dyed my hair, lost weight, began listening to the music my teenagers were listening to, and I had an affair. It was short-lived and stupid and I take full responsibilty. But... it changed my life forever, and I'd like to tell you some things that my (then)H DIDN'T do, that I wish he had. I can only say this now that I'm on the other side. One thing before I get to this list... listen very carefully: It took TWO FULL YEARS to come out of the crisis. I began to "see myself" for what I'd become sometime last summer. By winter, 2001, I was "me" again. My (then)H wanted me back, and said he was willing to try... problem was, I'd married someone else by then. Talk about a whirlwind!!<p>Okay, here's what my (then)H DID NOT do, that I wish he had... He didn't:<p>

• Try to understand what was happening with me<p>Tell me I looked good when I began to lose weight or made an effort to make myself over<p>Take me in his arms and tell me he'd protect me and be there for me when this metamorphesis was over<p>Make a sincere effort to win me back to him

<p>Okay, that's it. <p>I wanted him to help me... it was all a cry for help, and he wouldn't help me. He was too busy fearing the change he saw and worrying about himself. So what he did (and I'm not saying you'd EVER do this) was turn around and find other women. Several. At church. And move out, over and over and over. <p>Finally, I just decided I couldn't take it anymore... filed for divorce... and found someone else, who I married. He's a dollbaby, my new H, but ya know... divorce sucks... my family suffered... my new H's family has suffered... <p>It just would have been nice if the original marriage could have been repaired, ya know?<p>So... be patient. And keep writing and reading and learning here...<p>You're on the right track.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</p>

Hi Sheryl:<p>Thank you for your response. You brought me to tears, which was good. After reading your response, I picked up the phone and called my wife. I said many of the things you mentioned in regard to being there for her and wanting to protect her if she would just let me do so. I also told her about many of the discussions that we have had in the past, where I told her that if she just broke down her barrier and let me in, that I would not break her heart and I would be there for her for eternity. I have told her that I wanted to grow old with her have the bond we never had developed and share all of our fears and hopes.<p>She said she feels compelled to pursue this new person and the feelings she has. She said she has lost much of her interest, even though she loves me. I told her that I have lost interest in some aspects as well and I have feelings about what is out there for me, but that I knew what was right and wrong for our family, and I was willing to hang in there as long as she worked on it and didn't cross that line. She knows that I have had several women interested in me and that I haven't pursued them because I want our family in tact. She seems jealous about that, but it doesn't stop her from going her own direction. She said she can't make the commitment right now and she has to pursue her feelings for this new person.<p>Once she said that, I asked her if she would do me a favor and contact the mediator to begin divorce proceedings, which she agreed to. She said (and I agreed) that she just wants things to be fair, because you never know what is going to happen with us in the future. As I have said before, she appears to be totally lost. She said she will call the mediator and get back to me later today.<p>Sheryl or anyone else out there, what do you think I should have done and/or should be doing from here on out. My wife has been concerned with her own feelings in the past and is showing the same tendencies now. Before I could ever get back together with her, she would need to work with me on her issues and mine. She doesn't appear to be up to the challange.<p>My biggest concern from here is being there for my kids and they are with me at their original home most of the time. I am at the end of my rope with wife. I don't know what else to do but move on. <p>Somewhat confused!<p>New Beginning
kcox@speakeasy.org

N-B,
Your story is almost identical to mine, so I am not sure what to tell you as I am divorced. I too have the kids and the family home.<p>My x has said almost the same exact things. Her MLC plus some family problems(she was in extreme competition with her sister, and they were running out of things to compete on IMO) caused her to seek the thrill of an affair. <p>She through in all the garbage about sole mate and that there is only person for each person(so do you have to date half the planet then to find this person? how do they just happen to work at the same place you do or are your spouses best friend?) He was also so communcative and passionate, all things I wasn't in her opinion.<p>Funny thing is the few women I've dated since the divorce think I am communcative and passionate. I don;t think I've changed that much. The biggest thing is I learned was to be more myself, and not be afraid to speak up when I disagree with someone. <p>As for what you need to do, it really depends on you. You can throw in the towel and get divorced ASAP or you can wait and allow time to errode some of luster off their relationship.<p>That was one thing I did not do. I kept stirring things up because she keep taking the kids around the om. That only serves to draw them nearer each other as she seeks comfort from the b*$&#@d that she portrays me as. I still do it today, I let her know immediately when I think she is doing something wrong with the kids and om/h is always in the background making comments. I basically haven't allowed them enough rope to hang themselves in regards to them having to deal with each other, I somehow manage to get in the way.<p>So stay with plan A, don't try to educate her, I did that and it failed miserably, don't recruit friends against her, I did that a little, but she dropped all her friends anyway. Work on yourself, you can not stop the affair, only she can do that.<p>You must then decide what you can put up with. Can you satnd her still in the relationship? What of it ends, but she stays away.<p>We too went through 3 different counselors, each only about 2 times. Each time she would dump on me, then she would be angry with me.<p>On the one reconciliation attempt, she called and asked me to set up an appointment with my counselor and I did. She called me after seeing om again and said the counselor had taken my side, etc.<p>The last reconciliation attempt was after om had dumped her for a second time, even taking most of the furniture out of their apartment, but it was short lived, and that was when I decided I couldn't take any more and restarted the divorce papers she had started. My lawyer had a copy and I had told him not to close out the file. <p>Unfortunetly, I was profitic and did need the papers.<p>It really depends on what you want and what you can take. They have been a few people that have waited years for the ws to make up their mind. Others I think come here first looking to get divorced.<p>I think we all have to try to save our marriages. To what will you go is the key.<p>Hang in!

RWD:<p>Thanks so much for your reply. I hear you loud and clear about the marriage being important, and that is why I have tried so hard. This October of 2002 will be 2 years since the first affair started. It would be easier for me to make an attempt to wait if I felt that it was going somewhere, but the first affair took place while we were married, and without my knowledge. Now, my wife says she wants to pursue a different individual. When will it end?<p>She said she needs to talk to her counselor so that she can explain it to me properly. However, how do you explain that I should simply wait, while she goes out and explores relationships over and over to see if something sticks. <p>By the way, you and I do have quite a bit a like, my wife did go through the entire soul mate aspect with her counselor. Also, if you read Sheryl's response, my wife has lost weight, dyed her hair, gotten a belly button ring, changed her music tastes, etc. What does it all add up to time wise. I want my family in tact but this is too much to handle. I feel abused all over again. I really wish she wouldn't have asked me to go back to counseling a few weeks back, because it drew some emotional attachment back into the relationship.<p>If I knew that there was a point in which the MLC would be reaching the end, I might have waited. But, there are so many issues from the past that hurt me too, and without her critical self reflection or some inclination that we have a future, I don't presently hear enough to produce me waiting around any longer.<p>Thanks again for your help and any future responses! The discussions have been great medication for this latest development.<p>New Beginning

Hi again NB, from the other n_b! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well, YOU just brought ME to tears! Your call to your wife... lovely... and I bet it had an impact.<p>You also got some great advice from another old-timer around here, RWD, and he's a super guy himself. Listen to him too!!<p>You ARE on the right track!<p>If you have the money, I'd suggest a call to the counseling center here at Marriage Builders. I *didn't* and looking back, should have. I came here after my affair, and before my (then)H's new affairs. I still had a chance but was so busy trying to fix me, then the marriage, that in the meantime he found others. I should have worked on the marriage first, me second, if that was the goal - which it was, of course, since I was at Marriage Builders, not Me Builders, (if ya know what I mean).<p>I see hope... she's lost... she's lost because she just IS. If you can hang in... I see a rebuild marriage.<p>The only thing -- the mediator -- why did you tell her to call? That, to me, would be the LAST THING I'd be suggesting. Just a thought. She needs to know that you DON'T WANT THE DIVORCE. I know that in the rhelm of life you'll both be around and could get back together, but why go through the hell of divorce if you don't have to...that's all. <p>Best wishes to you and your wife as you travel this rocky road.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</p>

Hi Sheryl and N-B:<p>We probably posted about the same time. Can you please read my last posting. My wife wants to pursue someone new. Do you feel any different about the divorce based on this information.<p>New Beginning

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by NewBeginning:
<strong>Hi Sheryl and N-B:<p>We probably posted about the same time. Can you please read my last posting. My wife wants to pursue someone new. Do you feel any different about the divorce based on this information.<p>New Beginning</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Nope!<p>See NB, I was your wife, which you now understand. It really might do you some good to read through my postings in and around Dec 99 to April 2000... because let me tell you... I was FLAILING and reaching out to all sorts of unseemly places and people. I wasn't bar-hopping or anything, but I allowed myself to get tangled up in all sorts of sticky situations - like when a student asked me to dinner to "thank me" for helping him (I worked at a college with students with disabilities)... I *thought* it would be safe... instead he took me out into the hills for a "romp" (genteel way of saying you-know-what)... and I went on a business trip and took a moonlight walk with a co-worker from my past (it's all here, on these boards somewhere)... I was, for lack of a better phrase F'd UP!!! (excuse the language). But I WAS!!!<p>Had my (then)H held tight to my heart, even though I ***seemed*** not to want him to (and I don't mean stalking me or smothering me - I simply mean stood aside and waited lovingly) I am CERTAIN that my divorce would NOT have occured. 100% Certain!!<p>Do not, I am serious, NOT sign those papers if you don't want a divorce. Okay? Yeah, she might be pixxed, but... I'm telling you... in the end... when all is said and done... she will THANK YOU.<p>All this is said from my perspective, you understand, as a wife who messed up her life with a MLC. <p>Just be careful.

Hi Sheryl:<p>Thank you for all of your thoughts and assistance. I have talked to my wife several times, and am now questioning whether this is a new man or the same one. At one point, in December, I actually called the individual she had the affair with and discussed whether it was continuing. He said no, but that my wife was trying to talk with him from time to time. <p>I question now, since she won't tell me who it is, whether she is seeing him all over again and is afraid that I will call him again. I have no interest in that of course, at the time, I just needed to know whether she was actually lieing. She was, and was not working on the marriage and she wanted to move out so I asked her to go ahead and do that. I can tell that I feel that she is questioning what she is doing but feels that she has to pursue whatever it is out there. <p>I am perplexed by what to do. During our entire marriage, I was never happy with my wife's selfishness and anger. However, I think the anger was a result of her upbringing and always protecting herself. She even had a boyfriend for 9 years before we met, that physically and mentally abused her. It is amazing to me that the mental abuse is now on the other foot. <p>To change the subject around to my confusion, I have been out to lunch with an old friend that is a good christian woman. Her head is definetly screwed on straight and she has more growth and continues to learn and progress in her life, like I am striving to do. We are just friends for now, but I keep on questioning what I am doing and whether I should go pursue something new after a divorce. <p>At the same time, I question whether people can change and what would god want me to do. We brought two wonderful kids into this world together, and I have tried very hard to cast my anexity on god and ask for direction.<p>During my MLC, I prayed for humitlity and got everything I was asking for and then some. I now use one of my prayers; Humble yourself under the mighty hand of god, so that he may exhalt you in the proper time, casting all of your anexity upon him, because he cares for you. I wish and pray this would take place with my wife, but I am really torn on how I can continue to hold off without divorce. <p>I am sorry that I have not studied your postings yet, but I will. I run a company that has some serious issues at hand right now, and I am also committed to taking care of my kids. I would sell the business if it would set me and the kids up permantly, but the present economy and our past quest for growth, it doesn't have us in a present position to cash out. I am working on balance in my life, but I have a lot on my plate.<p>As you can see, your postings have really set me back. You do think differently then the counselor I have been seeing, but then again, he is not a woman and he hasn't been in your or my wife's shoes at any time in his life.<p>Signed the other New Beginning

Hi NB,
I have been working with your sister Kim for some time now in the Recovery forum. I guess that it is time for me to start to post in this forum to as we are no longer in recovery. <p>We have alot in common. My W is also having an A, since June of last year, we have two small children (1 and 3), I did not meet my wifes ENs during the M, she has some childhood issues that she is dealing with. <p>I am now at the point of considering giving up and moving on with my life. I have some opportunties with OP that I have met, we are only friends and have only talked on the phone. Not sure what direction to take, I want my W and my family back more than anything but after 8 months and her going back to him 2 or 3 times I are ready to give up.
We are legally seperated, I kept the house, she moved out, we have joint custody (50/50)...<p>This is your post so I won't get too much into my story, but the big thing that I have learned over the 8 months, from MB, and everything else that I have read - RWD mention this... If you keep stirring this up with the OM, this just serves to fuel the fire with the A and the OM.
The hardest thing to do is to do nothing, be there to support her (Plan A) but let the A run is course and die an natural death, in 95% of the cases this will happpen. I know I have fueled my W's A and here I am 8 months later still dealing with the A. I know it is so hard to not get angry or upset about the OM but please try
to hold in inside and vent here and not againist her and stick to Plan A. Use this time to work on
yourself and spend with your 2 children, eventually the fog will left for her and she will see all of the life changes you have made. Regardless of the outcome you will be a better, stonger person. I wish you the best of luck, keep in touch.
Dave

Hi -
Just a post from a complete stranger [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] (ha, ha). Just wanted to lighten the mood for a moment. I am so glad that so many people have rallied around you and are sharing their stories.<p>Like we've talked about, taking a long hard look at all your options and just sitting with them is about the best you can do. Eventually, one of these options will start sitting with you longer than the others. You will begin to look at all angles of this option and play it out over and over in your mind until it seems to fit YOU.<p>There are consequences to every decision we make and that is okay. Just as long as we don't act on rage and immediate impulse, we should be able to hash it all out over time. I wish we could take away each other's pain, but that is just not possible. This wouldn't be one of our life's biggest lesson if it didn't hurt like hell (can I say "hell" on marriage builders?)<p>I'll keep checking in here from time to time to read what all the wonderful MB friends have to say. You are doing great, believe it or not. You are healing, even though it doesn't feel like it. You've come along way in life, compared to that little one that I used to know! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Kim101 ]</p>

Others have recommended Janis Abrams springs "After the Affair". I finally got it for myself and find that it asks alot of really good questions for spouses to consider, both WS and BS, when deciding whether to save a marriage. It addresses the M both during the A and how to recover.

To all:<p>Especially my sis Kim 101. Thank you for your guidance. <p>I have decided to place my effort into paitience and raising my children. It will help me to be comfortable with who I am and who I want to be, while continuing with the research necessary to fulfull my life balance and hopefully my wife's missing needs if I am ever afforded that chance.<p>As it states in scripture and the book from Joyce Meyer's "Anxious for Nothing":<p>BE ANXIOUS FOR NOTHING, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, shall guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. PHILLIPPIANS 4:6,7 NASB<p>I have also used this time to develop a personal mission statement which I will share with all of the givers out there:<p>PERSONAL MISSION STATEMENT:
Through efforts to increase my faith, I will commit myself to continual learning and growth, so that I may become a better servant, husband, father, friend and associate. I will always try to create joy for myself, my family and for those people who enter into my life. I will strive to live in the balance of spirituality, family, career, friends and community.<p>I know mission statements should not change very often, but I beleive that I will change mine to read that I will try to live my life with a bit of humility injected into it every day. I will then try to use that humility to keep my ego in check and not take things for granted in the future.

I also promise to try to learn the abbreviations so that my future posts are not as long. Sorry everyone!<p>To my sis, you are such an inspiration. Your devotion and courage can't even begin to be explained into words. Only through the emotions and tears I am carrying right now for you, which I hope shows you how I feel about you. Thank you for being there for me.<p>Kenny