I am a WS. H and I are currently in mediation. Will probably be divorced in April or May.<p>I would like to help H but am not at all sure of how to do it.<p>I want him to know that I am sorry for hurting him. That I regret my actions and choices.<p>But I do not want him to misinterpret that I want the marriage. I want the divorce, but I want him to know that I'm sorry.<p>Is there any way to do that without reopening his hopes that I am willing to work on our relationship?

Lexxxy,
Just my opinion but if you don't want your marriage don't try to make him feel better about it. You will just hurt him more. The pain he is experiencing will not go away by words and if you say things to him he will read into them if he still wants the marriage. I don't remember your situation so I probably should not put in my 2 cents but...

Once being in the same situation that you are in now I totally understand how you feel. I think you need to tell him what you just posted here. Your sorry, you regret the terms that your marriage ended but it does have to end. Also, please take care of yourself and the kids too. Do not agree to things that are not in their best interest out of guilt. Time is the best healer and as time goes on he and you will not hurt as bad. My ex put us both through hell and back for a few years but he seems to be more focused on his life now instead of mine.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lexxxy:
<strong>I would like to help H but am not at all sure of how to do it.<p>I want him to know that I am sorry for hurting him. That I regret my actions and choices.<p>But I do not want him to misinterpret that I want the marriage. I want the divorce, but I want him to know that I'm sorry.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Lexxxy, I don't know much about your story. I did try looking through some of your past posts, but I didn't learn much, so I suppose there may be some important factor I haven't considered. But on the surface, I don't think what you want is possible.<p>If someone who had injured me came to me and apologized for doing so, while simultaneously sticking a knife into my gut and twisting it, I think I would have some difficulty believing that the apology was sincere.<p>A question comes to mind: Do you really want to "help" your husband? Or do you just not want to feel so bad about your actions?

I guess maybe its not.<p>I see so many posts in here from BS's who have so much pain. I see so many posts from BS's who wish their spouses would have understood or acknowledged them. I see so many posts from BS's who long for an apology. I see posts from BS's who want peace, want answers, want some way to heal.<p>So, if you're a BS.....what would help you heal? Do I need to provide answers? Do I need to apologize?<p>I have been resistant to reaching out to him in any way, because in the past those actions get magnified and misinterpreted.<p>I've thought that any apologies I want to make were better left until the divorce was over. <p>He sent me a link yesterday -- Dr. Phil on Infidelity
I guess the content of that made me think about my responsibility for his pain. And made me feel responsible for healing.

<p>[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: newstartj ]</p>

I don't believe we are responsible for another's pain or healing - at least not directly. What we are responsible for is our actions.<p>As for me, I am a BS, although to the best of my knowledge my wife never had an affair; she "merely" deserted me, without warning or discussion or explanation, and later filed for divorce. That was about eighteen months ago. It took me about two months to get past the initial traumatic shock. The subsequent post-traumatic shock triggers, and the pain of loss and betrayal have continued without any indication that they will ever abate. Do you ever really "heal" from the loss of an arm or a leg? Or a heart?<p>I don't care about an apology: I forgave my wife long ago. I don't need any more answers than I already have. I don't concern myself with healing, since I know of nothing I can do to make the pain go away that isn't more self-destructive than "simply" accommodating myself to it. I would like the peace of knowing that I won't be financially destroyed (which is currently a matter of great uncertainty), but I already have the more important peace that comes from knowing who I am and having no cause for shame.<p>So what do I really want? What would ease the pain?<p>I want the woman I love to stop hiding from the truth and running from herself. If there is anything more painful than seeing someone you love self-destruct, I don't think I want to know what it is.<p>Happiness can never be bought with guilt. With that coin, all one can do is rent it for a time...

Since you asked... and I speak only for myself. <p>If he would just leave me alone. Just let me be, stop telling me how sincere he is in his regrets, stop telling me what a mess he was, stop tryiing to convince me that he was a "train wreck" and that he's "better now". If he really does love me, if he really wants me to be happy, then he will go away, allow the quick no-fault divorce and let me rebuild my life without him commentating my every move. That is the one thing I long for. Peace and to be away from him.<p>If he had been a drug addict and a rapist who had served his sentence, repented and truly reformed, rather than the "repentant husband" he is painting himself as, would he expect me to turn the other cheek and become his best friend? I think not. And to me, in my life and with my history, this is the equivalent of what he is asking me to do. <p>Snow

Thanks for your replies.<p>New -- From your response here, and what I've seen you respond to others, I am assuming that you are deeply religious. I am not. Sacred vows? Repent? no, thats not where I'm at. But I am sorry for not dealing with the problems in our marriage first and fairly. Thats what I'd like to express to him.<p>Gnome -- I appreciate your thoughts. I know that I can't be responsible for him, I do care. And I hope that he will reach peace and acceptance. And if there is a way for me to help with that, I'd do it. <p>Snow -- I think our situations are reversed, he definitely doesn't want me to leave him alone. Maybe he will eventually, and I hope that I can accomodate and respect his wishes.<p>All -- I'm quite surprised. I thought I would get an overwhelming response that an acknowledgement of the pain I caused would be wanted. Or that answering his lingering questions might give him peace. Or that it would be meaningful that I regretted my choices and actions.<p>I'm surprised that most suggest that I do nothing. I certainly don't want to cause more pain. Thanks all!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lexxxy:
<strong>I'm surprised that most suggest that I do nothing. I certainly don't want to cause more pain. Thanks all!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Um, Lexxxy, that's not quite my reading of "most" of the posts here. It's certainly not what I was trying to say.<p>Basically, you are causing your husband more pain. You are choosing to do so. You need to accept that fact, because the pain you are causing is an inextricable part of your choice.<p>And as long as you stick with your choice, it is pointless to look for places to apply bandaids. If the house is going to be torn down anyway, what good does it do to repaint it?

Lexxxy,<p>I presume that you will get custody of the children. I presume that you will get child support as well as perhaps some support for you.<p>I also presume that your A is still going on.<p>If these presumption are correct, I think you know already what you are doing to him. He is losing his children (yeah I know he can see them when he wants...). It is not the same as living with children. He is losing you and your A continues.<p>So what are you going to help him with???<p>I do think that once the D is over, and hopefully you have established some normalized relationship with H, he will get to see the kids right? Then, an apology might help him. Then some explanation might help him.<p>Right now to use Gnome's phrasing: the house is being torn down and you are handling the wrecking ball. An apology now probably wouldn't do much to help him. But, later perhaps it would.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

If it makes a difference JL, none of those assumptions are correct.<p>We are working out a 50/50 physical custody arrangement. He will not pay me child support or any other support -- other than buying me out of the business we own. And my A is not still going on. Although I have had some phone contact with OM.<p>I don't know if any of that matters. <p>I can see the point. I don't want to re-open wounds. I want to get through all of this, and I can see that he's still hurting. I don't know what it was that struck me on the board here, but something gave me this thought -- combined with the web link H sent me.<p>This board is great -- its helped me many times think about my actions. I'm trying to be decent, and respectful. My intentions are good, and I thank everyone for their input.

OK Lexxy, I would normally not respond to a post like this...but I'm confused here...<p>First I'll answer you question...IMHO...I have to agree with the others...If you try to do ANYTHING to 'help' your H, it will only hurt him more. So if you have made your decision, then just leave him alone! <p>Apologies for sounding so abrupt...BUT...Here's where I'm confused.<p>One...you are on "Marriage BUILDERS"....I have noticed that you have posted 500+ postings...So I would assume that you have read the information on this site...Do you understand it? Does it make sense? Even if you feel as if you don't love your H, then these Basic Concepts and principles just may bring that love back. Make sense? Is the A still alive? There have been people on here that I have read about that have been in A's for many more years than you, so you can't use that for an excuse...Also, The end of your signature says..."I still hate divorce"...Please help me understand that!
If you hate D then why do it?<p>Ok, here's a question? Why do you want a D? Is there physical abuse? Illegal stuff going on you don't like? What? What's really behind 'why' you want a D? <p>Obviously your H wants to save your M regardless of the A you have or are still having. Does that tell you something...He still loves you. Is it his "behavoir"?? You and I both know that CAN be changed based on MB principles. You only have to apply them. Have you talked to your H about MB? Is he willing to check into it? If he wants to save your M then he probably would look into it.<p>OK, so you see why I am confused...You have been here a lot longer that I have and still want a D. This I don't understand. Maybe it's because I don't have all the info on your relationship, but from what I can see, you have the knowledge to have a fulfilling M with your H if you wanted to. <p>I'm not trying to change your mind, only trying to point out some of the questions I would have if I were in your shoes.<p>But, all in all...If you are going to continue with the D, then just get it over with...don't speak with him about anything other than the kids or the D itself and the matters that it's concerned with. <p>I am the BS and I love my W very much...I take my part of the responsibility for her wanting to leave, have an EA and then a PA (after she moved out) and now the A is over and she's back home..although we are still considered 'seperated'...We are not D'ing yet...She wants to give it time...I have changed MY behavior because I found out what happened to us in the first place...Now I can see hope that we can be together again...W says she's not in love with me, that I understand...MB has helped me understand that...But she still loves me...not ready yet. Does that make sense... <p>From what I can see, you may still love your H, but you are not in love with him. Am I right? <p>Every person here on MB has there own reasons for being here...Some WS's, some BS's some friends just wanting to help. Are you one of those friends that just want to help? And if you hate D so much, then why are you doing it? <p>Please help me understand this...I'm confused???<p>I'll try to keep an eye out for a reply...I don't usually visit this forum, but I would like find out why I am so confused...Maybe you could help me? Knowing this...(if you're just the friend that wants to help) Maybe I could use your information to help me...or others on this website.<p>Forgive me if I sound obnoxious, but I just don't understand, that's all.

Sorry Lexxxy,
One more question??? Counseling???
IC for either or counseling together???<p>Would this help?
J

Lexxxy,
Even though you think it might be good to apologize, I'm so amazed you sound identical to my WS/W, meaning she has had many affairs, has filed for Divorce to be final in may.She even goes by the same nick name you do, wow! I don't think you are sorry, maybe sorry I got caught, feeling guilt that the OM is not what you thought he would be. You know you are guilty and wrong STILL and you are looking for your husband to give you approval to ease your guilt while you are STILL in your affair [contact with other man] still means it has not ended emotionally, which for a woman its just as real to having a physical sex affair still.<p>If my wife said she was sorry today, I might her hear say it, but I know her actions would speak something totally different just as before when she apologized, JUST like yours, therefore its worthless to set your husband up again. I really feel you are on a ADDICTION LOW and your LOVER is not meeting your needs therefore you need that true love feeling that you are familar with from your husband.<p>I told my wife she is ONLY divorcing because she is Deceived and in LOve with OM still. When she talks to me now I hear the voice of another mans words coming out of hear. She uses phrases and slangs that are not her character, therefore she's trying to be somebody she's not.<p>She thinks she missed out on something in life and now is trying to be a irresponsible teenager again , having all these sexual experiences with strange men, just like you are doing. What are you going to tell your Kids when they grow up Lexxxy? Do you tell them to go have Sex with strangers when you're unhappy in your marriage?<p>Just like my wife has done [excuse me from the marriage] saying I love you but not in love with you, Oh we've changed now, We can't agree anymore, we have different goals in life, on and on...Only to find that she is a very empty woman seeking to Jump in bed with as many men as possible especially when the divorce date is final...<p>I would ask you this question Lexxxy. Have you been sexually abused as a child? You seem for some reason unconcerned about strange partners. I'm sure you have had Internet lovers as well.<p>The bottomline is, you know your husband has been the one placed as an authority in your home and life, NOT the OM, you violated you marriage vows, you have seen that you were a big cause of the downfall, the only peace you'll ever have at this point is to let ALL other men go totally and come naked before your husband meaning, you have released contact with ALL of them, after that I would consider an apology, DEAL WITH WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU WITHOUT ANOTHER MAN IN THE PICTURE, FACE YOURSELF..... but knowing my wife at this point, I'd tell her don't waste my time. SHe won't dare live life without a LOVER on the side.<p>Just because you told OM temporarly until Divorce day, lets cool it down until May, still don't make things right, you still LIED your way out of your marriage. Women or Men can't swing out of a marriage unless they have something to swing to. So in the arms of another man you look.<p>Once again sorry if I seemed hard, but you are identical to my wife, its almost like talking to her. If your husband didn't abuse you, verbally, physically I think anyone should stick it out and try, Other than that togther 17 years and now say it was the wrong person? Somebody is very selfish and self-centered.

lexxy, is good you asked, but this is not a gulf that can be crossed, nobody is going to understand your question, they are going to respond out of their own pain/expectations..... I have come to understand that there is no redemption for a ws except reconcilliation....no one will ever accept the marriage was not a safe, nurturing, healthy place, and you no longer wish to continue in that intimate realtionship for legitimate reasons...if a ws leaves, they are just plain selfish losers, didn't work hard enough, violated vows, won't accept they belong to their spouse and have no valid authority to leave...end of story....it is the price we pay.<p>The best advice is to do nothing, just conduct all interactions with respect, and caring...do not respond to LB'ing, and let the bs decide how much interaction they desire, and accomodate it if possible. In some strange humanly illogical way, trying to express care and concern, and remorse as you divorce just makes it worse, somehow I think it interferes with the grieveing process....the time to make ammends will come later I think...<p>btw I know you are not asking this cause you feel guilty, or seek validation, but few will believe that. WS are just monsters, without a caring bone in their body, or they wouldn't be leaveing, that we actually have our own feelings and desires for life is irrelevant....

s-n-l (sorry Lexxxy) that's really not fair. I for one am not a BS who sees reconcilliation as the only just or proper end. I think, for ME, it's just the opposite. My WH spent years proclaiming his love and desire for me, his repulsion at the thought of so much as touching another woman, yet the reality was that he was having sex with many other women all the while.<p>I completely understand why he is so desperate to stay married. He loves home and family life, he does in his own twisted way love me, but he also needs constant validation from strangers. I think he does feel tremendous guilt about the pain he's caused and the disruption in our lives and I do believe that this is his main reason for being so amazingly persistant in his pursuit of me. The only respectable and honorable thing he could do, IN MY OPINION, is accept that about himself and realize that he is not what I am looking for, nor am I the kind of wife he really wants (somone accepting of those meaningless "indiscretions"). He could allow me to grieve and move on into a life of my own, but he hesitates to let go, to the point where my IC has suggested that a restraining order should be the next step. <p>Not all WS's are the same. Not all BS's are the same. But I do think that we are all seeking an end to the pain and anger we've inflicted or have had forced upon us by the choices of others. Like I said, I just want peace and the space to breathe again. <p>Snow

yes snow it was a bit of a rant, ws do not get much support....or understanding we are just regular people to, who for whatever reason feel we cannot stay married....it is unfortuneate your H is not doing the decent thing and leaveing if he cannot love you right...perhaps he feels some guilt, I don't mean anyone bs/ws doesn't recognize their behaviour can cause another to feel emotional hurt...that just comes with the territory (relationships)...and yes, a bs can come to accept and realize one may care and be in a relationship with ws, just not a marital one...but it is not the norm, and bs fight hard to not accept that, so are responsible too for some of the conflict, they won't let go.... sounds like you have a healthy (psychological) attitude, and good understanding of your H mindset. I suppose it makes sense though if he is screwed up, he would not do the right thing and let you go, but try to keep you around to meet his needs... you used the right term though, twisted love, it is not real love...one does not treat someone they love like that...good luck in your life...and yes ..I know all bs and all ws is an overgeneralization.... we are all just people, struggling and doing the best we can one way or another....I think there are few truly evil people....but they do exist sociopaths and psychopaths....but I suppose even them usually have some small goodness somewhere...however marriage requires a lot of nurturing, and if it is not happening whatever the reason it needs to end IMO, hopefully as amicably and supportively as possible....and we get messed up and confused because of the grieveing process, it seems some kind of immutable thing we all have to go through, and trying to be "helpful" in anothers process actually makes it worse in some odd way...best to just let people deal with it as they must, and be supportive in the way they ask for, otherwise just be there for them, and don't add any more stress if you can avoid it.

Lexx,<p>I haven't seen you post lately, but I've been on pretty sporadically myself.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is there any way to do that without reopening his hopes that I am willing to work on our relationship? <hr></blockquote>
IMVVVVVHO, the answer to your question is NO.<p>Maybe if your gender roles were reversed, but for a man (particularly YOUR man- considering how he's responded to your previous efforts to.... whatever), no.<p>Something you said in one of your later replies started my warning lights to blink, I'd like clarification (actually, I would prefer that you not answer, then you won't be tempted to include even a hint of dishonesty or show - not that you would- just think about these questions, and answer them to YOUR satisfaction - truthfully, I hope).
[QUOTEAlthough I have had some phone contact with OM.] [/QUOTE]<p>The last I remember (it's been a couple of months), you had said that you were having no contact with OM, though you were taking a business trip to his city.<p>What I'm curious about is this: If no continuing emotional attachment (EVEN AS FRIENDS), then why the continued contact? Did you see him while in town a couple of months back? Even though there may be no PA (don't remember if there ever was), is there still an EA? If not now, do you see the potential for it starting back up after the DV? Can you see a future with OM?<p>Again, IMVHO if you answered any of these in the affirmative- I think I'd think it suggests that you are STILL having an emotional affair. If THAT'S the case, could it POSSIBLY have been affecting your decisions/feelings about your marriage (yes).<p>Just some random, paranoid thoughts! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do think about you and your husband often- remember, our situation looks to be going the same direction- but I hope not.<p>I hope you both find peace.
Kev

Matthew: It wasn't my signature line about hating divorce -- that was MKN.<p>Yes, I'm on the MB site, and yes I have done all the reading and research. I do believe in the process and the ideas. But I don't have it in my heart. The whole "love but not in-love" thing.<p>And I've posted here a lot -- hopefully to help others. But I've gotten a lot of help as well. To understand myself. <p>***********************************************<p>and to EverlastingCompassion:<p>Wow -- I think I could go off in a million directions from your post!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I would ask you this question Lexxxy. Have you been sexually abused as a child? You seem for some reason unconcerned about strange partners. I'm sure you have had Internet lovers as well. <hr></blockquote><p>I would love to know where you got this impression. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I've been with 3 men in my entire life -- a former boyfriend in a long term relationship, then my H, and OM. Thats it.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>. I really feel you are on a ADDICTION LOW and your LOVER is not meeting your needs therefore you need that true love feeling that you are familar with from your husband. <hr></blockquote><p>I do not want my H to be in love with me. He has expressed so much anger, frustration, and sadness -- and I feel responsible for helping him to deal with it. To help him reach peace and acceptance.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The bottomline is, you know your husband has been the one placed as an authority in your home and life, <hr></blockquote><p>This one made me laugh.....go back and read my history -- I practically begged for his participation and attention in our family and marriage life. Yeah whatever.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Other than that togther 17 years and now say it was the wrong person <hr></blockquote><p>yes, sadly that is what I'm saying. Although I didn't wait the full 17 years. I told him 10 years ago at least -- that I didn't think we fit. And why.<p>***********************************************<p>SNL -- thanks very much for your words -- I think you really get what I'm saying. <p>Gosh I wish that the "legal" age was older. Maybe 25 -- until then your parents are still in charge. I certainly didn't know enough at 19 to make the decision I made. And now I'm living and dealing with those consequences.<p>Thanks to all for your replies!