Hello everyone-<p>I haven't posted in awhile although I have been reading and responding. Things are going well. I guess I figure that my X is proving to be as messed up as I feared he was all these years and since there is nothing that I can do about it I might as well move on.<p>I do have a dilemma however. My X seems to be having an early midlife crisis, he is busy reliving his childhood, or shall we say early adulthood. He even has a 21 year old OW! No woman his own age would put up with him right now, they'd see right through him. <p>After almost 15 months he still doesn't have his own place, which means he still has nowhere to bring the kids every other weekend. This past weekend was his weekend. The OW was also home because it is her spring break from college. He always lets me know where he is taking them, but this weekend he wouldn't. I figured it was because he intended to stay somewhere with the OW so I didn't push, I have his cell phone number in case of emergencies and figured I'd learn where they were when they returned.<p>As it was, they spent the weekend at her parent's house. Her parents don't approve of him and don't allow him to come there, but they were out of town on vacation. So they spent the weekend there rather than spending the money on a motel. Yes, my almost 33 year old X snuck himself and my children to a home he is not welcome at and played house for the weekend. It is so childish, he never ceases to amaze me!<p>Here is the real problem. He and the OW let our nine year old watch a totally inappropriate movie with them. The other two kids were already asleep. Afterwards they told her that had they known it was as bad as it was they would've never let her watch it. Hello? If it was that bad, why didn't they shut it off? They also made plans to have my nine year old go with the OW and watch her get her belly button pierced. I feel this is totally inappropriate. She is highly impressionable and little girls are growing up to fast as it is. Even if it wasn't such a blatent play to get her to accept the OW (she is giving them the most grief of any of the kids and doesn't like OW), she by no means needs to be exposed to it.<p>My problem is that he always pulls this stuff without talking to me first. So much for coparenting! Now if I say no, I come off as the bad guy. Does anyone have any suggestions on a smooth way to handle this? Even if the OW wasn't involved I would be against it. How do I make this clear? I guess I can see how a 21 year old would see no problem with the things they are doing, but an almost 33 year old father of four should know better. It's that damn fog again.<p>Well, thanks for letting me vent. I feel like my life is changing from a soap opera to a bad sit-com! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.<p>Take care and God bless!
K

Of course I have to reply!<p>If you only knew what my WH was putting me through today alone with regard to the kids.... anyway, this is your post.<p>My children's counselor recommended that I read the book "Co-parenting with a Jerk." Ok, not the best title, but I looked it up on Amazon.com and it got some good reviews. The moms however, didn't like leaving the book around the house for the kids to see the title. Anyway, I haven't read it yet, but it's next on my list. You might give it a try. <p>The only thing that I think works is by buttering up the ExH and doing some reverse psych. Like making them see like they are a really good parent and that you know they would never want their child to do X or see X. Maybe appeal to their ego somehow. Or maybe you can both agree to discuss the movies that will be watched before either of you have the kids. Or agree on a rating - like only G movies or something. Ok, none of this may help, but I'm trying here.<p>As for the lack of a domicile - didn't the court have something to say about that? Sounds unhealthy to me. But I know that we have our hands tied sometimes. Also, if you don't know wher eyour kids are and he refuses to tell you - that could fall under parental kidnapping - if it came to that. I only know that because the OW's H has a job in which he has personal knowledge of the federal kidnapping laws. <p>Hang in there! K

My x did the same thing, still does. All you can do is voice your opinion and hope it sinks in. She took him 11 yo to see Black HAwk Down and he called me at 2:30 am crying for me to get him because he wasn't feeling safe. He was basically sleep walking and I got him to go wake his mother. He said he slept on her floor, God forbid she would have to get out of bed with om to calm him down, but finally went back to his own bed.<p>She now tells him if it is okay with me he can see certain movies. He pretty much knows what I'll say and doesn't even bother to ask.<p>My son also has a friend who is divorced and this kid hasn't missed any movies. HE sees them all. Apparently they don't check for ages before allowing kids into the movies.

She too talked to him about tattos and getting his ears pierced, he was 8 at the time. He cried to me about it and when I said something to her she said she was just kidding.<p>Really not much you can do. I feel sorry for your kids. I imagine they soon won't want to be put through all this crap either.<p>Hang in

Well, really the only thing you do have control over is knowing they have a safe place to stay when they are w/ you..<p>When they are with him..thats his time..and you really don't have a say in the matter..but, if he doesn't have a place to live, you may check w/ the courts and see if they can set up supervised vistation..until he at least finds himself a place to live..and a place to take them too when they are with him..<p>As far as movies go, sorry..he's their dad..and if he wants to take them to rated R movies he can do that..Unfortunately...but if they were rated X movies..well, you could get him on child abuse charges..I am learning the same thing here..I have no control over what he allows the kids to watch..
I only have control over what I allow them watch..
just as I have no control over whether or not he drinks when he has them..my kids get nightmares too after watching certain movies..and they call me in the middle of night scared..I do the same thing..tell them to wake their father..but they don't..because they are afraid he'll be mad at them for waking him up..<p>If you think it would help, then talk to him about it..let him know you would appreciate his not allowing the kids watch rated 'whatever' movies..and let him know you'd like to keep them innocent as long as possible..but..the problem w/ that is..he might tell them..'Don't tell mommy cause she'll be mad' and make you out to be the 'bad' parent because your trying to protect them..
and make it sound like that is a bad thing..<p>You could just let them come home and tell you about their weekend..let them share the fears they had..and things like that..and say something like..<p>"I'm so sorry you had to go through that" <p>"I'm sorry that you were scared and I wasn't there to comfort you, come here and let me give you a hug" <p>If ex has them watch something the child feels is inappropriate..<p>I am so sorry that you felt that way, what do you think you could have done to avoid watching that?
Could you have gone to another room? Could you have mentioned that you didn't like the movie?<p>
There are some other things you could say and do to make them more aware of the choices they do have when they are over the ex's...

What a [censored]. <p>All the ideas posted before my reply are good, but the one thing not mentioned is talking to his little playmate, I mean make out buddy, oops, let's just call her bimbette. My x's final ow was 23, divorced twice, with a conviction for domestic violence. At least your ow is in college (I'm laughing so hard at that!).<p>Do you ever have any contact with her? Maybe it is time for you to talk to her, can't be too hard, it would be like talking to one of your childrens friends. You could let her know that you are sure that she takes parenting seriously, and since she has chosen a relationship with a man with children she needs to start if she hasn't already. Remind her that there are responsibilities that go along with taking care of children (duh) and that she needs to make sure that she sets a good example because the kids will not respect her otherwise. I don't know, just a shot in the dark.<p>How bout her folks? Do you know them? They seem to be in need of a parenting lesson or two!<p>That playing house thing burns me up. [censored] used to go out with OW and her nephew for the day, you would figure he might want to spend some time with his kids right?<p>Do you really have to send the kids with him if you don't know where they are going? [censored] has supervised visitation, so I really don't know how regular visitation works. <p>I feel so bad for you. Sometimes it would be nice if these guys would just melt.<p>Elizabeth

The name of the book is "Joint Custody With a Jerk: Raising a Child With an Uncooperative Ex" and I just ordered "Caught in the Middle: Protecting the Children of High-COnflict Divorce" I'll let you know if they give me any goood ideas.<p>I just spent - wasted - the entire day going back and forth with my STBX. He starts off the am with wanting to drop by 1st thing with my 3 year old before he takes him to school. I'm not even bathed or dressed, and he wants to stop by. Then he finally decides that he wants to get rid of the kids, so it suddenly doesn't matter that I won't speak to him, e-mailing is suddenly ok. I just have to jump through a few other hoops and their mine. Well, I wouldn't back down and be forced into being controlled by his "demands" and he just can't figure out why I'm being so "difficult" - it's called setting boundaries.
So I didn't do anything to take care of myself all afternoon because I was negotiating to get the kids. WH has no clue that I'm still post partum and recovery from having the baby..<p>Anyway, I don't have the kids, and I just got off the phone with my 6 year old who thinks that daddy is going to keep them forever, and he's crying on the phone. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think I've finally found the reason WH is like he is - I read the article on BPD and it fits my WH to a T! Of course, if WH never gets help, I'm doomed to a life of conflict. Oh well. <p>At least you got some really good advice on this thread. I'll be taking some of it myself. K

Hello everyone-<p>Thanks you for the advice. I know compared to waht some of you are going through it is trivial, but it is a pain none-the-less and I guess I just needed to vent.<p>To clarify something. My X lives with a co-worker (male, not the OW because she is away at college). He has lived there since he moved out. At the time we both agreed it wasn't a suitable environment for the kids. The guy is a partier, smokes, has various"girlfriends", etc. He also made it clear that he didn't want the kids staying there. <p>Well, at the time my now X assured me that if he wasn't home within a month (he was afterall at a standstill in life and just trying to find himself - I was totally blind at the time and an affair was not even suspected) he would rent something on his own. As you see he hasn't. He can't afford to. His drinking and gambling addictions cost a lot. Furthermore, he has refused at least two suitable offers to live with people. His mom being one, but she stipulated he could not live there and drink to which he responded that he was an adult and nobody would tell him what to do. A mutual friend and single father being the other and for reasons I can only speculate he turned that down too.<p>At our temporary hearing in August he was told to find suitable housing and he assured them he was looking, but his hands were tied because of the money he was paying in child support and that until he got his share of the equity in our house he would be unable to do anything. In the end his share of the equity was much less than he expected, thanks to pensions, etc. Now instead of buying he is looking to rent, but I have learned from experience not to believe it until I see it.<p>For his weekends he rotates from his mother's or to hotels either with or without the OW. He continually asks to stay at my house, yes even after the divorce, but I tell him no. Up until this past weekend he always lets me know where they are going, but as you see, He must have been a bit paranoid about sneaking to the OW's parent's house and so he wouldn't tell me.<p>Now that I have read the stuff on BPD it fits him to a tee as well. He suffered a lot of abuse, verbal and physical as a child. His father died when he was 5. He then lived with his mother, sisters,and numerous boyfriends until he was abandoned at age 11 or 12 by his mother when she was given the ultimatum by her live in boyfriend of either him or me. She chose the boyfriend and sent my X to a group home. He bounced around a lot before he was subsequently adopted by a single man who verbally and sexually abused him actually causing him to run away. He then moved in with a friend who's mother ended up adopting him. We were already dating by then. Since I have known him he has always blamed everything on people other than himself. He never accepts responsibility and can be down right nasty. I guess I will add BPD to adult survivor of childhood abuse,alcoholism, and compulsive gambling. All of which he refuses to seek help for. I know I can't make him do anything and I accept that after years of trying to help. He is a sick man and for that I feel sorry for him. I also feel sorry for the OW as she is young and naive and ready to help and fix him.<p>I am going to try the I know you have only the best interests of the kids, reverse psych. approach and will keep you posted.<p>Thanks for everything.<p>Take care and God bless!<p>K

K
I just got your message and found your post. This is a great topic and you have recieved really sound solutions. <p>I think your decision to aproach this, as you stated, with reverse phych. is wise. Any scarastic remarks or show of anger would only be counter productive (how well I know!!!).<p>The books also sound interesting and may give you some creative ways to aproach this.<p>I'm SICK about there use of her parents house! If I found out that my daughter were bringing her MM here when we were away, I would feel justified to violate HIS space as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>I've wandered if she has brought him here. It makes me SICK.<p>Her parents need to know this. The neighbors may have seen them. The house will be disturbed. There will be signs. They may suspect.<p>On the other hand, this is the good news. The more reality OG sees, the sooner this will be over. She needs ALL the kids as much as possible. She needs to see him drink, have no money and life not being so FUN. <p>K, she also needs to see YOU being the NICE, understanding, bigger person. Gradually show her that you are not the person he has painted you to be. You would have to be in a position of true strength but the "buddy" theory isn't all that bad of an idea. I have often thought that if My D MM's wife had befriended her, it would have been over long ago. <p>You might through the question out to the form about befriending the OP.<p>If nothing else, it throughs them off!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>I'm back

Marry-<p>It is so good to hear from you. I have been thinking about you a lot and wondering how things are going.<p>You offer some valid advice.As far as talking to the OG it is out of the question. With the exception of the A she seems to have a level head on her shoulders and has been good to the kids, however, she has been fed so many lies about me that it is pointless. Of course she believes the lies because it helps her justify her actions. So unless she does something that requires that I talk to her I will not. The belly button piercing seems to have been put on hold as of now anyway.<p>It seems the OG's parents have been told to some degree that my X and the kids were at their house. Something of the kids had been left behind there and my X was in no hurry to get it for me so I told him point blank I would call them and go get it myself. What do you know, I got it right back and they told them some story about them being there to cover their butts.<p>On Good Friday the X decided not to take the kids in order to go to the OG's parents for dinner. We got into a heated arguement, he made a lot of excuses, told even more lies, made some threats, and portrayed me (over the phone, she was with him) as a ranting psycho, etc. In the end I told the kids that he wasn't coming because he had plans with her, yes I know that I shouldn't bring them into it, but he counts on me protecting him, covering his butt,and making him look like a non-self centered [censored]. I let him know this and everything changed, he came and got the kids, told more lies, etc.<p>I was upset after the argument, but it was a turning point. I have been gradually detatching, etc.over the past year and a half, but something finally clicked that day and I realized enough is enough. I totally let go. This man is ill, he is an alcoholic and he lies, cheats, whatever to cover his butt and keep his fix. That isn't changing, I can't control it. What I can control is his effect on me. I went to the library and got every book on codependency that I could. It is amazing how caught up in these things I have gotten. I really was to the point that I didn't want him back, but I was totally obsessed with the A ending and him losing it all. Granted, my obsession was based on the hopes that then he would get help and things would change, but no matter what the case, I needed it to stop. His choices are his choices. I may not agree with them, they may be hurting a lot of people, etc., but in the end they are his. End of story. <p>Since them I have been reading a lot. And putting things into action. I have limited contact with him to needed information on the kids only. No more small talk, nothing. I have to do it for me. When I let him talk, I let my guard down. He then sneaks in and attempts to manipulate things and I always get my hopes up and get hurt. I am in control of that and my boundaries are firmly established. He has tried of course to break them, but I am holding firm. I am totally focused on me and it is great! <p>You are so right about the A needing reality in order for it to end. Due to circumstances my X's A has very little reality. The distance and her age have really helped. The fact that he is an addict and lying comes second nature has helped a lot too. Anyway, a lot of things have happened in the past month to put more reality into the A. A lot of it has dealt with family acceptance. Neither family is happy or really accepting, they both are simply at a point where life goes on. I know from all my reading and research that acceptance of an affair is often a major turn off for the people involved, it takes away that you and I against the world feeling that is so addicting. As hard as some of these things have been to accept, I realize that they also need to happen. I also know I can survive anything and am okay with things.<p>How are things with your D? Any progress? How was your vacation? I really have missed you so either post here or e-mail me.<p>Take care,
K

K
I just wrote to you but I want to respond to this here. Someone might read this thread and I believe that you have insights that are valueable for us all.<p>First of all, I agree with you that the acceptance does take the excitment away. The "it's you and me against the world" is the GLUE. This glue can be broken if we keep our cool, keep a conversational tone of voice and have an air of acceptance. I have been trying to do this with My Daughter as well. I even told her that I have a new awareness of her relationship with Paul and want to provide a safe place for her to talk. Now don't worry, I'm not out of my mind. I know that she is NOT going to start confiding in me about this BUT she has to wander what this "new awareness" is. She has been calling about her new boyfriend and I keep a distant interest. The theirpy we have had is starting to take place in my mind, maybe hers too. Truth is, I DO want to be a safe place for her to talk. <p>This distance for you is not only good for YOU but for your kids and the A. Your learning curve has been steep. You have grown leaps and bounds. This is just another leval for your growth. I'm right there along with you. Strange as this sounds, your growth helps me grow too.<p>Please share the books. I'll write more later.