Just read your post. He is returning kids today.<p>Talk about similar circumstances. Yes, my ILs are total enablers, and I know that his mother was "abused" as a child - her father and mother weren't kid people and she developed a very low self esteem - left home at 17 or so and got married - then had my H and his older brother.<p>Anyway - my WH sought acceptance and love from them but didn't get much and so tried to get attention through good grades. <p>Anyway, after I read the first BPD article I went to the others through the link at teh top of the site that says Borderline Personality Articles and they are all right on the money - if you haven't read them, you should. <p>I did "cave" this am and listened to what WH had to say. HE still rejects counseling, but says he won't bring up anything that happened before today, and will talk strictly about the children when he calls. He is so happy after he talks to me when there has been a period of me not talking to him, he says he's been dreaming about me and the baby etc. The thing is, if I make him so happy, why can't he notice the happiness and attribute it to me?<p>Anyway, he is DESPARATE for me to talk to him. It's really because it's more convenient for him to communicate that way. I'm trying to decide if I'll fall for it again. You know there is "honeymoon"period when he's nice and then it's back to the same old same old because he doesn't grow and change. He still refuses to see a counselor, but I may hold out until he does. <p>I keep thinking that if I talk to him and am nice, then maybe we can become friends and if the A ever ends then we will have a chance, but it hasn't worked in the past 7 months. WH is totally in the throws of the A. He makes poor decisions with the children. He acts like a wounded animal and excepts everyone to cater to him. He thinks it's totally unreasonable for him to actually have to call me and agree on a time to see the baby - he wants to just drop in whenever. <p>I woudl love for him to come over by himself and spend sometime with me and the baby. But I know that if he was here, without a third party, then I would just be hoping for something I couldn't have and I don't know if I could take it. Just talking to him on the phone today made me just weep with the grief of knowing that the marriage is going to be over.<p>So do I risk his wrath and continue to try and keep the boundaries that I have in place, or just try again to have a realtionship with him. He thinks that we can just pick up and act as friends, both parenting the kids. He even wants to cal and tell me the cute things they are doing and visa versa - doesn't he know that you just don't do that when you're divorced. Although it would drive the OW crazy if I was that much a part of his life. <p>He still wants to keep the time he spends with her a secret so I don't get hurt - but how do you keep that life a secret forever?<p>Ramble ramble ramble. Oh well, I need to get back to finishing answering the interrogatories for our divorce suit. <p>I just don't know how you've been able to come so far adn be so stable. Maybe a year after D-day and after the divorce I'll be as strong as you. K<p>[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: God is in Control ]<p>[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: God is in Control ]<p>[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: God is in Control ]<p>[ March 22, 2002: Message edited by: God is in Control ]</p>

What sucks is that they all turn in perpetuators of the past. . .<p>Do not think that these people change forever,
they have their triggers and their moments. . . .<p>If you read carefully, the only way they will respect you is for you to lay down and enforce boundaries. . . . like children, they will daw some consistency from your boundary setting. . . <p>but man, is it a weird ride or what?<p>If i get irritated and enforcemy boundaries correctly, then she is more receptive. . . however, as soon as you use the word "you. . . " implying to them control, they freak, or a put down, they freak, so instill your "If i am treated without respect, then I will. . . ." and stick to it. . . <p>they don't like it, and they pout and fuss, but they learn to accept your position. . . .<p>wiftty

Hi K-<p>First of all, hurray! The kids are coming home. Thank God!<p>I read and re-read this because there are so many similarities. I can honestly say that I don't know what to tell you, I can only relate my experience. <p>My X tries his best to keep me on an emotional roller coaster. I admit I am still on it, however, I no longer let him see it. What I mean by this is that although I am content with life and moving on, he still gets to me and deep down I still harbor deep seeded feelings for him and hopes for our family. Rationally I tell myself he needs a lot of help and even if the A were to end there are still tons of problems, but the "dream" is still there. I think that is really normal.<p>My X still needs to talk to me. I know it because I have never Plan B'd effectively for long. I always fall back into some contact. Actually my Plan A is really perfected and I do a much better job with it. I guess I am a sucker for a lost cause. Some examples: My X calls to talk to the kids and gets me on the phone with some excuse only to make small talk, reminiss, etc. He does the same thing when he drops off and picks up. I keep cool, calm, and collected, but inside he triggers things. <p>My X seems to want to be best buddies too, however it is very one sided, I can't rely on him for anything. He also has this wonderful habit of dropping me like a hot potato when his one weekend a month with the OW rolls around. It's back to that not wanting us, but not wanting to let go either scenario. I can't wait to see what happens when I do start dating again. So far he has gone nuts at the mere perception that I might be seeing someone, it's like he owns me or something. Another problem my X has is the need to know what I am doing. He wants his privacy and everything he does to be a secret, but wants total access to what I am doing. <p>As you already know, just this weekend he took the kids and refused to let me know where they were going, yet last night we were at a function for the kids and my mom had the baby. He called her to see if we were there. He said he just wanted to talk to the kids, but I know he was tracking our whereabouts again. It drives me nuts! I am letting him know that the privacy thing works two ways. I have an answering machine and if he needs to reach us he can leave a message. We always return them promply.<p>The problem is that all of this seems to be a game to him. He doesn't want me, he is too caught up in the A for that, but he doesn't want to let me go either. It goes along with all that needs fulfillment stuff. The OW can't meet all of the needs and the ones they can't meet are the ones we can. Therefore my X and your WH still try to get these needs met, but are so caught up in the A that they have no intention of leaving it and seem to see nothing wrong with screwing us over (The fog!)<p>For a long time I too wondered if we got along and I made him happy, met needs, etc. why did he have to continue the A. I guess it's the whole fantasy and addiction thing. Let's face it, we're real and dull where the A is new and exciting. It's tough to compete.<p>I think the fact that they refuse counseling says a lot. It basically says that they are not ready to deal with anything. Will they ever be? Who knows, I simply know that although I will never say never, I am done waiting around.<p>I can totally relate to you wanting him to spend with you and the baby. I still long for this, more for the baby than me, but it isn't happening. What I do see however, is a beautiful baby girl who is totally loved by so many people. I think the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy have bonded so many people with her. She truly is being raised and loved by a community. Unfortunately at this time her father is not one of the people in this community, but hopefully that will change. <p>Furthermore, for a long time I made myself and the house totally available to my X. He spent a lot of time there and I figured it would help remind him of what he was giving up and drive the OW nuts. What happened was that he didn't give up anything, instead he got us on his terms and because the OW lives almost 4 hours away he totally lied to her about his contact with me and of course she believed him because he is totally honest to her and only lies to me. He told her things like; I was never there when he was, he only did it as a last resort, etc. So while I thought we were making progress he was actually having his cake and eating it too.<p>I guess if it were me I would stick to your boundaries. Your WH has done nothing to show that he is willing to change anything and therefore this may simply be a ploy to sucker you back in and to regain the control you have taken away from him.<p>Thanks again for the BPD info. I have started reading it and intend to read a lot more.<p>Good luck with the divorce stuff. It is such a pain. It is emotionally draining and totally time consuming.<p>As for where I am at. I do think I have come a long way and am proud of myself, but each day I learn new things. I still have my ups and downs, but on the positive side the ups are more frequent and the downs are lasting much shorter. This weekend through me for another loop, but I am recovering. I think because the OW is usually only a distance thing it always gets to me when I know they are together, especially when they are with my kids. I can't imagine how you people who deal with the OW as a regular all the time person can handle it. On the other hand, the distance in my case only seems to fuel the fantasy and hide the truth.<p>You are doing great, you are very strong. I think motherhood forces us to be. Things may be going their way right now, but in the end we will be on top. In fact I think the way it sounds, no matter how difficult things may be, we already are.<p>Well, talk about babbling. Hang in there and keep in touch!<p>Take care and God bless!<p>K

Still Reeling - <p>I know I should stop saying this, but your ExH and my STBX are too similar! Aaaaaah!<p>I was going to ask you what was next since you are a few months ahead of me. Maybe get the benefit of your hindsight. So all the "babbling" was very beneficial.<p>WH came over today to see the baby, and was soooooooo nice and soooooooo sorry for having to hurt me like this. He wants to be physical(he's supposedly not having sex - it's against his religion or something - but leaving your pregnant wife for another woman is not, go figure), he has tears in his eyes, talks about how beautiful I am, he gives me a check(guilt $), he wants to chit chat, and he says that he can forgive me for coming over a few Friday's ago, and how he wants to parent together with the kids(whatever that means),he says he wants me to spend time with him and the baby when he's there and on and on. And I cry too and I let him hug me (ok, I hugged back) and I talk to him, video him with baby etc.<p>Then he leaves and I remember how he just had OW watch kids all weekend and how he is LEAVING ME AND DIVORCING ME and telling me that he's going to HATE any custody arrangement made by the court and how he will have his mother or sister watch the kids if he can't and not let me have them even if he needs help on his days - control thing. But he also tells me that if we can talk together then either of us will never bring up any events that occurred before today. (more refusing to deal with the past). <p>I too slip in and out of Plan B. Another Aaaaaaah!<p>So, lets look at the facts:<p>1. I know that by not talking to him he gets angry. (He doesn't like boundaries.)<p>2. Even though he is angry, it's during those times that he sees a counselor, dreams about me, is desparate to hear my voice.<p>3. We can't communicate effectively without seeing a counselor. Which he refuses to do.<p>4. He's still having an affair, and divorcing me.<p>5. He says it hurts more to do what he's doing when I'm nice to him.<p>6. It HURTS me when he treats this whole thing so casually.<p>7. He talks about me wanting to save the marriage like its a bad thing and wants to move onto getting the kids ok with his behavior and the divorce.<p>8. He says I'm a great mom, but in the same breath says he can't wait until I return to the work force in 6 months so he doesn't have to pay alimony.<p>Has Plan A worked? Well, it only works if the A ends. Well the A will only end by reality setting in - no reality yet. Yes, I'm a better person, and hopefully I'll lose all love if WH still acts like a jerk, but it may be too hard to continue because of all the emotions WH stirs up. It is hard to Plan A knowing A is still going on - even when you think about it as an addiction. It hurts! I feel better when I don't speak to him, but then there is zero chance for us to become friends again - now the only reason I would even agree to be his friend is because of the chance that things may change in the future.<p>I sent WH some of those BPD articles. I wonder if he'll delete them right away or keep them around.<p>Is there any hope for us people trying to parent with a BPD person? <p>I need CLOSURE! However, I know that I must still live day to day because you never know what will happen.<p>I still see God working in his life - he sent him a patient in the ER who could have been me - separated from H for same reason, and she was having a nervous breakdown. WH said it let him see a little more about what he has done to me. WH did see a counselor again - yesterday I think, but it's never enough to get WH to turn around. He's a tough cookie.<p>I think I'll lay out my boundaries and see what happens, maybe with a few phone calls but mostly e-mails.<p>I need to read more about BPD. Maybe it will help.<p>P.S. - I got the kids because WH was tired of having them - and he goes back t owork tomorrow and has no one to watch them. And he had no one to watch them this weekend so he had OW do it and the boys ended up getting her sick too. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>K<p>[ March 19, 2002: Message edited by: God is in Control ]</p>

Hi K-<p>I want to start by saying that although these men are similar, no two situations are alike and so I don't know exactly what to tell you. I can only relate what's happened to me and my opinions, which at this time may be a bit harsh because the OW is still home on Spring Break, I guess she's home for two weeks and he is on a total high and being pretty nasty to me. <p>He called to talk to the kids last night. I asked him if he had needed anything important the previous night and he said no that he'd just called to say goodnight to the kids. I then calmly asked him to not track us down. I told him we have machine and always check it. He then said we never return his calls to which I replied that wasn't true because we always return his calls when asked to. I told him that since he doesn't want me contacting them when with him that it's only fair that he respect my wishes. He then said I never call when they're with him and I repeated that it was because the only real way to reach him is to leave a message on his cell and that he is so incosistent about me using it that I can only call in emergencies so I don't. He said that wasn't his problem. I told him whatever, but that I would appreciate him only calling us at home. He said he could call his kids whenever, wherever he wanted and I said fine then I will do the same, even if it is at the OW's parents (they must still be gone, he is still staying there and playing house!) At this he said F you and hung up. <p>He came over this morning to watch the youngest two girls. The baby started fussing and once again he acted like she does it on purpose. The three year old started screaming that she didn't want to stay with him and wanted to go to Grandma's to which he said, "Tough your going with me." I supported this as she is prone to temper tantrums and likes to get her way. I also added they may be going to the OW's house, partly because the OW does a lot with her and because of this she really likes her, but mostly I admit to see him squirm, he is so uncomfortable at even the mention of her. Do you think it's guilt? She asked if it was true and he said they were hanging out at my house, but might see the OW for lunch. The older kids and I left, but I ran back in because I found something in the van that they needed, well, he was already packing them up getting ready to go. I don't get his need to hide his life with her. Anyway now you have a little background on my attitude at the moment.<p>As for what you should do, who knows. It seems to me that your husband is suffering from his choices, but not enough to fix things. He is afterall still divorcing you and continuing the A. I feel for you, it is so hard when they say and do things that show feelings. Someone here once told me though, if they're not willing to do anything to work on the marriage their words and actions are empty. I guess if I was you I would keep doing what you are doing. Maybe it will be enough to make him realize what he is losing. He is being nice and saying the right things, but is it just a ploy to regain control? Give it sometime and see for yourself. He is still in the fog and nothing you can do will change that. Like you said, reality needs to set in and it hasn't. It may be in someways, but until the fog is totally lifted you can't change things. Trust me I know. I am divorced and he still is playing games. The fog always manages to come back, maybe one day it will lift, only God knows. I think that even if we Plan B as long as we Plan A'd up to that point and remain fair when the fog lifts they will see us for what we really are, but then again who knows. <p>I know I sound depressing, but I am trying to be realistic. Take your time. Only you know what you really want and are willing to put up with. Let him prove himself a little though.<p>Let me know how today is going.<p>K<p>PS- I think it's funny that the kids got the OW sick, she must really have loved that!

Thanks for the reply. Today I just feel like I'm at a crossroads again.<p>Logically, all things being equal, WH should give me a better settlement if I'm being nice to him. But there is no guarantee. Right in the middle of all those niceities he is telling me how he's not going to let me watch the kids while he has them even if he needs me to - just out of spite.<p>I still look back over our marriage, and I am more and more realizing that while we had some kinks to work out - mainly in the communication department - wherein he wasn't communicating with me - there was nothing so horrible that I did to make him leave. Yes I see that the needs we're being met in some areas, and so I agree with MB, but ut still doesn't exhonerate his decision to have an affair, and his behavior since D-day has been atrocious!<p>That's been the problem. There would be nothign to fight about if WH wasn't doing what he's doing. He doesn't understand that he's not goign to like my behavior because it's not falling lock step with how he wants me to behave. <p>I just need to figure out what my boundaries will be and then stick to them, even if he gets mad.<p>Usually when we're in person, we communicate alot better and he feels more guilty. When we talk on the phone, then we argue. In the past, he has not wanted to communicate with me by any other means than by phone, but if I can get him to dicuss the major issues by e-mail or in person, and only use the phone for confirmation or change of plans, then maybe that will work. WH has also not wanted to talk to me about anything besides the kids schedule, and he did mention that now he wants to "share" kids stories etc. <p>On one hand I want to behave according to what may change his mind about me and on the other I just want to keep him as far away from me as possible. Maybe I'm just fighting against reality. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much about waht the kids think and just deal with the right and wrong of the situation when they are older.<p>I want to Plan B but it makes WH crazy. Although I don't know how long I can play the happy homemaker.<p>Hopefully I'll decide soon. I'll keep you informed. K

Hi K-<p>Reading your last reply it has dawned on me that not only do our H's sound a lot alike, so do we. I totally vascialte between wondering if I should keep the doors open and maintain a friendly relationship and wanting to run like hell to stay away from my X. Deep down although I try like hell to hide my feelins I fear he senses them and therefore keeps playing his games.<p>I so appreciate your comments on his behaviors causing the problems and his not appreciating your behavior because it's not what he wants. DITTO HERE! Obviously both of these men are comfortable doing what they want and usually getting what they want from us. As we establish boundaries and remain calm it drives them nuts. They aren't getting their way and we aren't getting upset- Yikes!<p>Trust your instincts. When I really looked at my marriage I realized that the A was really only a small part of our problem and even if it ended, which I truly believe it will I just have to be patient while reality sets in, the problems would still be there. Then again, my X has major issues which he is in total denial of. I was able to work on anything, he wasn't. Even if the A ends I don't see him changing that mindset!<p>You however, may be very different. Although not with you, your WH has seen a counselor, mine won't he despises and fears them. Although this is painful what if the A would end? Are there other problems? Can you deal with them? Do you want to?<p>My X and I communicate much better in person too. A good friend who is also a counselor once told me never talk on the phone because it enables people to lie, hide from issues, and feelings. It also gives some a false sense of power. Sound familiar? <p>Keep up the good work. Don't let the actions or opinions flavor your decisions. Although the advice of others helps in the end it has to be your decision. Keep in mind that no matter what happens, nothing will be easy. You also know that none of us know what will happen so never say never. <p>I have to run, but write back. By the way, I too am one of those Catholic girls, yet another similarity. Keep the faith, keep those boundaries and keep in touch!<p>K

SR- <p>I was afraid for a long time that this was an "ending affair," which meant that WH was looking for a way out of the marriage and this became his excuse.<p>However, right now I'm thinking that although is totally taken out of reality by this A, I believe that he was more dragged out of the marriage byu OW. Now that's not to day he does not have his share of the blame, but after talking to OWH, I realized that I was giving my WH all the blame and OW hardly any. I think this is why WH still waffles too(in his own way). WH likes the familiarity of the marriage and the warm fuzzy feelings he still gets from being together as a family, and it is like he has to work on breaking away from the marriage, work on putting up a wall between us. That's why he only wants to talk on the phone with me and never see me in person. Or at least that was the case up until yesterday.<p>Both he and OW make quick decisions - and then stick to them come hell or highwater. But it is providing for a rocky ride. Because WH doesn't have control over his emotions, he can't move on with the reality of the situation - he still expects others ot make decisions and move reality on for him - like me being the one to file for divorce. I seriously wonder if he would have ever filed, if I wasn't forced to because of his controlling behavior. Now the attorneys have control over the situation. We could have never sat down without them I don't think.<p>Anyway, it's like he wants everyone and everything to just be ok with his decision, but because he's making a bad decision, nothing is going his way and he gets angry. Mostly angry at me. <p>For Easter, WH wants to go to Holy Thrs. Mass with us, then be at the house when the Easter Bunny comes, then he wants to help us get ready for church and then come with us. Actually I don't know if he "wants" this, but I asked him if he would do those things(except show up Sun. morning), and he said yes. He always gets emotional around the holidays.<p>It's been two days an he has actually been nice - like when I answered the phone he asked how I was doing and wanted to know how my doctors appt. today went. He never asks. I can see the turmoil he's going through and the fear he has about not seeing the kids like he wants - BUT he refuses to realize that HE IS THE ONE CAUSING ALL THIS TO HAPPEN AND THAT HE CAN'T HAVE HIS CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.<p>I want so much to have a happy Easter with him around. If he's going to be nice and give hugs then it may be the last time in our marriage that I get that. However, I would also be hoping the whole time that the Holy Thurs. or Easter Mass would touch him in some way, and then it wouldn't and I'd be disappointed.<p>Be nice or not keep distance and boundaries. I know ther eis a happy medium here. I just don't know what it is. I also am into the Message of the Divine Mercy - like Bramblemrose. And the Novena starts on Good Friday and ends on Mercy Sunday, 4/7, and maybe I'm hoping for a miracle - even if the miracle is a change in me. <p>I just need some type of closure - I need to decide when I'm going to go on without him, and it's hard when you're not divorced and still married, no matter what they are doing to you.<p>WH does go to a counselor, but again - it's so that someone else can tell him what to do, instead of making the decision himself. And she hasn't even spoken to me or any of my counselors, so she can't possibly know how to counsel him.<p>My parents are VERY against me giving into anything with him. But I love it when he's nice because I'm still in love with him and I'm desparate for him to fill any of my needs. When I establish my boundaries he fights like hell and I just don't have the energy for that. I just want to give in right now - his demands don't seem that unreasonable. Everyone wants me to detatch and move on, but we're not divorced yet - even though we've got a hearing in a month. <p>I know that every family who has a family member with an addiction goes through the same pain. It's awful how we hurt the ones we love. I was doing much better emotionally before I talked to him, and now I'm a basketcase. Maybe that's my sign. I'm taking the oldest child to his therapist today and maybe she'll have some answers. <p>It all seems so simple at MB - do Plan A and then Plan B and then no matter what you'll be ok whether the person comes back or not. However, it is not turning out that way. What am I doing wrong? <p>Notice I was in semi-control of my feelings at the beginning of this post adn now I'm all confused. I thought writing out your thoughts was supposed to unconfuse you. Oh well. Got to go. <p>Maybe I'll have a revalation later today. K

Hi again-<p>I can totally see your wanting to have your WH on Easter. Last Easter we played the happy family. actually we did for everything up until Christmas, at which point I said enough is enough because my X always relished in the "family" stuff, but never enough to come home or work on anything and I always got let down.<p>Being Catholic I too look for signs in everything and to this day I don't think my X is sure of his decision, thus the need to keep me around, etc. You're well read on this stuff, the A doesn't meet all needs, thus it's only logical that your WH would want you to keep meeting the needs that need meeting. <p>I have read the stuff on types of affairs and even after divorce I'm not totally sure what type of A my husband's was although it falls best in the exit affair category. My X like your WH wants everybody else to make his decisions for him. If not financially necessary I wouldn't have filed and had I not, I highly doubt that he would have even filed, much less divorced me now, but for many reasons I had to make my move and am now divorced because of it.<p>I feel for you because you are in pain. You obviously love your WH still and are hoping for another chance. You may get it, but it could mean putting up with a lot of pain in the meantime. I hope that things work out for you. You are right, while you aren't yet divorced you hold out that hope, but a divorce doesn't necessarily end that hope either. I sometimes wonder if hope ever really dies.<p>I can relate to your family as well. While separated my X would do things and I would get my hopes up only to be let down. When I would share things my family and friends would be like, "Did you really expect things to be different?" they of course only see the pain, it is quite different to be in love with the person. <p>You are on a roller coaster ride which wasn't of your choosing. Nobody knows when it will end or where you will end up. Give things time. Let things happen, tolerate what you can. This is your marriage and it is important. However, protect yourself. Your WH has proven to be deceptive and controlling. Like I've said before, don't rush things, make him prove himself and be consistent. He may be for real this time, but this may just be a ploy. Protect your heart.<p>Remember that writing helps, but because you are dealing with circumstances beyond your control it is only natural to feel confused. I know for myself that just when I feel confident in my decisions something always happens to mess things up. It does get better, but there are definately no easy answers and no definate timeline for anything.<p>Take care and God bless!<p>K

Still Reeling - <p>Thanks for all of the replies! I know that you may not think that you are imparting any great words of wisdom, but somehow I'm able to make a little more sense out of my own life but the two of us trying to muddle through all this craziness.<p>Well, tonite was weird and typical. WH calls, wants to come over, I say yes and thanks me for saying yes on short notice - he says he'll be over in 20 minutes. (He forgot I guess that on Wed. we had already planned for him to come over. - WH never thinks more than 2 seconds into the future.)<p>Anyway, he comes over, and is happy. He "plays dad." I go along with it a little. We converse, I take pictures of him with the baby. He gives me playful winks. He doesn't want me out of the room while he's playing with the kids. Still makes comments about wanting to see my breasts....(We're getting DIVORCED!)<p>However, he still makes comments here and there in response to things the kids say and do regarding the divorce/his impending leaving the marriage, which knocks me back into reality. And when he leaves, he comments about how nice I am and how this is how he always wants me to be. (Of course he wants me to be ok with "his decision to hurt me," and fulfill the needs of beign a good mother, having a clean house, looking beautiful, giving him admiration and conversation.) Then of course we get into a conversation about the marriage. I tell him that there was really nothing in our marriage the occurrred that we couldn't have worked out and that the problems are amplified by his realtionship with OW and that what he is doing is wrong religiously - which he just can't see. He knows that what he is doing ruins his relationship with God, but that it is something that he just has to "work through." And that he can be reconciled without making amends with me(the person who he hurt). And that no one would be hurt by his decision (friends, family, kids) if I just wouldn't saying anything negative about what was going on. (I don't say anything negative - family, friends and kids know that I'm hurting though). <p>And then the most childish thing happened which just shows me that he is lighyears behind me - I say what he's doing is wrong and he says it isn't and I say it is and then he says it isn't and I say it is - going back and forth like kids, and then he puts his fingers into his ears and starts to hum with his eyes closed - like little kids do when they don't want to listen to their moms. I wanted to burst out laughing he looked so ridiculous and at that point I told him just to go home - we were standing by the door anyway.<p>He's in fantasyland. He is going to justify his behavior - and he just talked to one of our good friends last night and told them how we fell out of love and how he didn't want to hurt me and so the friend was glad to hear that - like that makes it all better, and how he's basically just moving on because the marriage got too stale or something. Actually I don't even know why he's leaving me because he's never told me and I told him that I needed to call this friend so that maybe I could finally find out. <p>Anyway, there is nothing I can say or do to change his mind. WH said that when I was setting my boundaries and not speaking to him that he has never been madder in his life. However he doesn't take any of the responsibility for getting mad upon himself - it's all me. I really think he has BPD, which means the kids are going to go through hell because WH will never be able to properly communicate with me about them, as I will always be the cause of his angst and therefore will always be emotional and never level headed and practical with me.<p>I think that my purgatory is going to be here on earth trying to parent with this man. <p>The next time that I feel half way awake, I'm just going to type out my own parenting plan and e-mail it to him and let him know that this is how I'm going to raise the kids and what I'm going to [censored] the judge to include, and that he can comment or discuss if he so chooses. I will also decide what I will take as far as when and where we can have discussions about the kids. WH wants to have them whenever things pop into his head without any planning on either of our parts, whether it's convenient for me to discuss it at that time or not. But we can't operate that way. We need to have a set time(he hates set times - as I said, he thinks very much in the moment only). I'm also going to tell him that if he wants to see the baby, he is going to have to schedule a time - I am no longer going to do it for him, and that he has to give me at least 24 hours notice. WH's problem is that we never learned how to discuss things or negotiate things - he always gave in and now he blames me for it. As a reponse to this he just dictates his way - then he doesn't have to negoatiate.<p>He still wants me to be at his beck and call - even though he says he doesn't want that. But it's good that tonite happened. Because it helped me continue to detach and see things for what they are. I can still be nice to him in the future, and still have my boundaries. It's sad to face the end of the marriage, but it's not my choice, and WH just keeps showing me how far away he is from any type of recovery, especially if he's not grasping simple concepts like sin and breaking commandments and sacraments and death do us part. (I did ask him how he could ever say those vows again to someone, and his answer was - well I meant them when I said them).<p>God is somehow getting me through this - carrying me through this - actually He is dragging me kicking and screaming through this, but I'll get to the otherside of this mess eventually. (Easier said than done I know, but the statement is still true). <p>And I'll be ok and so will the kids. (I always hated saying that because it seems like I'm giving up, but I'm learning that that's not the case. It now means that I am surviving a terrible situation. I am a survivor, and will be better for it.) <p>Time to start taking care of me and the kids again, and time to give WH back to God.(I have to do that daily - even hourly).<p>Tomorrow is another day. You know, Gone With the Wind was always my favorite movie. Who knew my Rhett would leave too. Although in book 2 they get back together again - after they divorce.....
(No I'm not going to backslide after that comment, but the book is not closed yet, I'm just going to have to wait and see what happens). <p>Stay tuned...... and another Thank you for being such a good sounding board. I've made it out of another little dip in the rollercoaster. Thanks! K

Hi again K-<p>First of all, you are not giving up, you are accepting that you can't control this man and at the moment he is not willing to do anything to make things work.<p>I am sorry that he fell back into his excuses etc. My X tries some of the same lines on me. Yeah right, like the only reason think it is wrong is because you are saying so. It is the guilt. The sad thing is that they are destined to live with the guilt because they know what they are doing is wrong. The conscience can be a hell of a thing to deal with even in the fog!<p>
My X always wants to be best buddies. He always throws in how nice it is when I am being nice. Funny, my behavior has been pretty consistent for many months now, but his is all over the place. This morning he was friendly than he has been in a week. Then I found out that the OW's parents are back home so their little house playing is done. I guess it puts a damper in things. I can't wait until she goes back to school, he's always real sweet then, well screw him!<p>I love the little tantrum your H threw. How did you not laugh! One thing my X always reverts to is the line, "Because I don't want to and if I don't want to I don't have to!" I keep waiting for him to say nanna-nanna-boo-boo. I wonder if this immaturity is yet another symptom of the fog.<p>I do wish these men would stop being jerks, but I don't think either are there yet. Mine too loves to have me at his beck and call, yet he adamently tells me he doesn't.<p>Last night I had a real X bashing phone call with a friend. I am just sick of my X's mistreatment of me. I am also sick of playing fair and coming up alone. By right shouldn't the lying, cheating ones be alone? I knew I was having a pity party, but needed to get it out. When I got off the phone I felt better. She reassured me that my day is coming and better things await me. When I got done I started re-reading SAA. I really needed to get back to my undestanding of this dumb A and then I read Proverbs. In the end I felt much better.<p>Hold tight to your convictions. Your H may come out of this in time to stop the divorce, but he may not. You can't predict the future. In the meantime, don't put your life on hold. You are an attractive, educated, loving woman. Don't forget that!<p>What's with these men and their obsession with our bodies? My X, still makes comments and occasional proposals(although the last proposal was in Jan. maybe he's tired of being shot down) it's like what do you want? They say that the sex of an A is often the most passionate ever, well how come these men act like this? I guess it's a case of having their cake and eating it too. So would we be the OW now?<p>Listen to me ramble. All in all I have had a bad week. Actually the worst I've had in awhile, but things are once again looking up. You are so right, God is getting us through this. We may not like the way that it is playing out, but we are surviving. <p>Keep the faith! Enjoy those kids now that they are home where they belong.<p>Write back. I always hearing from you.<p>Take care and God bless!
K