I posted this question on Emotional needs but maybe I can get some answers here. This question is intended to be about the general population of divorce.
I get the idea that most divorces occur after a revelation of infidelity, but is done in a rush of emotion with little thinking of the future, and a lot of divorced people I talk to, are very very bitter and don't have anything good to say about their x.<p>I don't really that situation applied to the people on this board as the people on these boards are usually really striving to fix and alter the relationship for the better.<p>But the original question was:
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What do you think is more prevalent in divorce?
Do you think that most divorces occur because it is easier for one or the other partner to hold onto the
pain/hurt/blaming and so take that route rather than reconcile? So it is "justified" in the mind?<p>Or more so that the one partner just doesn't want to work on it at all and the other partner is forced to divorce
so that they can have a better life?<p>I'm confused and am not at all sure the two options above are not one in the same.<p>But, looking from the outside to in, with your divorced friends, what do you think? Especially the ones who haven't been to counseling or to these types of boards.<p>Thanks in advance
Mikkey

I suspect people mostly divorce cause they do not want to be married, is pretty basic.

SNL Its NOT pretty basic, its very complicated.
I think they "think" at the time that its an easy answer, not having thought through it. <p>When people are the fog, they aren't really capable of making a wise decision.<p>I'm trying to see if most people make the decision while still in the fresh, thick, fog.<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Mikkey ]</p>

In my case, my x did not want to work on reconciling. I forgave her for the affair and I attempted reconciliation at least 5 times and each time, x kept going back to om. The counseling sessions just pissed her off and she used them to point out my weaknesses.<p>I divorced after the last reconciliation attempt after she bad mouthed the om and was showing signs of coming out of the fog only to go right back to the om.<p>I decided I could not take any more and restarted the divorce she had started.<p>The anger comes from the pain, frustration and jealously of her new carefree life.

From my experience, it seems like the WS wants to rush into a divorce because they want to run away from the guilt. They can't forgive themselves I guess, and it translates into not forgiving the spouse. I think the fog prevents them from wanting to work on the marriage, so in their mind there is only one option. Run away with OP and live happily ever after...... at least that is what they think.<p>K

I'm the BS and I filed for divorce. My WS has been living with OW for 15 months, off and on. He hasn't lived with me in all that time except for one 1/2-hearted attempt at reconciliation. I've been in individual counseling and we've been to marriage counseling (including Steve H who recommended divorce about a year ago!).<p>Up until the end, he said he didn't want a divorce and made endless promises to give up OW, lied that he wasn't seeing her when they were more or less living together, and promised to get sober again (he was sober for close to 10 years before the A).<p>I just couldn't take anymore. It is very painful to finally accept that he has no plans to change anything and my only choice is to continue to go along with an unacceptable situation or to get out...

I really do think it is that simple mikkey. One can make the "analysis" of how people came to that point (including fit) complicated, but after a year here, and following hundreds of stories, people get divorced cause they no longer want to be married....I do not beleive in fog, confusion, or any other such silliness. If someone can get out of bed, manage to feed themself, drive about the city, work, answer the telephone etc. they are a fully cognizant, aware, human being, and they do what they want to do. I understand it somewhat ameliorates the bs feelings to attribute divorce (after infidelity) to the affair, and some sort of mysterious alein abduction experience, but I doubt it. Divorces happen cause that is what people want, and I think mostly they happen because they should (as in it is the right solution for that marriage).....if people do not want to divorce, they don't plain and simple. (of course that would mean both don't want too, if one does, it is over, as it should be). There is much made of the so-called remorse years later that the divorce was a bad choice, etc. I don't beleive that either, humans are prone to dramatic posturing. And even if that were true, it most likely is cause of the growth following the divorce, so the divorce had to happen anyways.<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

We were together 15 painful yrs. My stbxH Controller/Abuser filed for divorce earlier this month. <p>When I grew wise and strong, set up boundaries, refused to accept his ways, spoke the truth to him, insisted on developing a Godly healthy growing marriage, kept getting another counselor if he quit, brought him to accountability before a pastor, etc... H said, you've changed, I can't change, let's divorce. <p>Since I would not accept his evil game anymore, he didn't want me. He doesn't want a real marriage as God designed it; he only wants a victim to control/abuse.

good luck renae, you did the work, and found the path to restoring your emotional health, your H chose otherwise, as is his right...good for you. I am curious though, had he not divorced you, would you have continued to try and "fix" him, be loyal to the "picture" the vows...or would you have concluded no real marriage existed, and ended it yourself?

Renae - a Godly way, how do you define that? Was it according to the Bible, or what? I brought my WH to our pastor and assistant pastor at the same time and my WH lied to the pastors as I found out later after discovery. Why does the WS not want to pray with you when you ask them to? WH would sit on our bed and I would have to start, (he said he never was good at this) and he would ditto what I said, and add a little. I could feel this was not in his heart to do this with me. Therefore, I just did it on my own. <p>You are a christian, and how do you feel about commitment, vows, history, etc?

I think every case is slightly different, in may case she wanted the divorce as fast as possible, I think it was to ease her quilt and also justify going to live with OM she made it a point to say she was not doing anything sexual with OM until divorce, yeah right. Anyway we were divorced 60 days after she moved out and she moved in with OM. I think Now she regrets her choices but doesn't know how to get out of her current situation with OM.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I really do think it is that simple mikkey. One can make the "analysis" of how people came to that point (including fit) complicated, but after a year here, and following hundreds of stories, people get divorced cause they no longer want to be married....I do not beleive in fog, confusion, or any other such silliness. <hr></blockquote><p>SNL- from reading some of your other posts, I think you have made your own fog and its thick and deep. You don't seem based in reality at all. I "hear" you talk round and round and round, trying to convince yourself of what you think is right. I don't see concrete decisions on your part although you talk round and round. It appears you want to let the other partner do all the work and are still determined not to be happy and NOT giving it your best shot. <p>Relationships don't work by osmosis. If you are so unhappy, why don't you DO something about it, MAKE A DECISION, instead of acting the martyr? Things aren't going to fall in place, just because you "wish" them. I feel sorry for your partner because it seems like she is hitting her head against a brick wall.<p> If divorce were so simple and the easy answer, why are so many divorcees terribly unhappy afterwards? Both parties, not just the one who didn't want the divorce. I haven't even heard of the one wanting the divorce is 100% happy unless there was physical abuse or sadistic mental abuse involved. <p> The opinions of the people on this board about divorce are probably way different than the people who haven't given their spouses another chance and just marched right to the lawyer. They are at least interested in reconciliation and in addition are putting forth a great EFFORT (you know, doing the things they are supposed to, whethere they feel like it or not, I may add)to make the relationship better. Whether it works out or not, is another matter, but at least they are interested in giving it their best shot, despite the pain, anger, anxiety and everything else that goes with it.<p> I think people who don't have children don't have as much agony as those who do, simply because they are worried about the effects, outcome of those children. It doesn't mean that their divorces aren't painful though and that there aren't regrets.<p> I hate to see you so sad all the time, but I think it is mostly your own making because you have the ho-hum attitude that it was never meant to be and you can't do anything about it, and you are gonna stick around in your marriage, but it is with the wrong attitude which is very destructive to those who have committed to you.<p> I'd be interested in how your children are relating to your situation. What do you tell them? Your decisions, actions, examples now are going to be the role model for them to copy when they get out on their own. You need to take affirmative action and DO the things that will make your marriage better. <p>Take example of all the arranged marriages in the world. Maybe they were never "meant" to be. The people in those marriages for hundreds of years have MADE A DECISION to work things out and even though they may not have known each other in the beginning, you hear of many of them having wonderful, loving relationships throughout the years. So, its not the cosmos decisions that make a marriage, but the people themselves.

answer more later, but one thing that comes up all the time, arranged marriages....I have read the studies about such things....they fail at the same rates "chosen" marriages do, and have the same rates of abuse, neglect, and unhappiness as other marriages. The reason why? They don't fit.<p>I am convinced the reason marriages fail is the psychological realities of the two partners, not only their individual psychology (many are incapable of meeting the requirements for successful marriage), but also how the two psychologies mesh. IF we define marriage as an accomodation, a contract (you do me, I will do you) one can make more marriages work. But if you define it as a safe,nurturing,healthy,joyous place it is much harder to get right, and in fact most do not cause of ignorance in how humans bond, and how to assess the psycholigical likelihood two people can be successful. There is no mystery to this mikkey, marriages do not fail at +80% rates cause there is something wrong with people, they fail cause it is not a natural phenomena (we do not have instincts for it), and we have not learned the skills necessary to properly select a mate (and/or reject those who wear masks and try to "trick" us into marriage, few people are radically honest in the mating game).<p>thx for hating to see me sad, I hate it too, and am trying to finally deal with it, been too many years. thinker is also sad, and I feel bad about that too, hopefully however we end up will be a new place for each of us, and we can stop being sad. btw, I am not stuck, might look like it from the outside, but I have been working very hard with myself this past year, and have made a lot of progress with dependentcy issues, and avoidance issues....<p>[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]</p>

Oh it's been a L O N G road of growth for me. But what I clung to was God, to teach me how to be, how to become, and how to handle this at various stages. <p>The key is: "....In all thy ways acknowledge Him (my job), and He shall direct thy path." (God's job). Prov. 3:5-6<p>I started out with (1) a personal (born-again) relationship with God since a child and some Bible college, (2) belief that marriage is of God and forever and (3) that life is about growth. <p>I was by no means fully knowledgeable and mature enough for what I would face. My weakness is what was attractive to this abuser, who saw me vulnerable and controllable. And I naively thought I'd married a stable, Godly man. I was doormat submissive, passive, too dependent,a pleaser. From there, I've grown to run the spectrum to a stronger, wiser, bolder, more fearless, active, full security in God, equipped with truth person who could act in restoring ways toward H and our relationship. <p>At one stage, I struggled with feeling like a failure for having been so naive, but then I realized, the only failure is what you haven't learned from and maybe God had a bigger plan in all this, for our growth and restoration and perhaps a ministry for me to other hurting people later. <p>So, I read/heard everything I could on marriage including Harley's info., abuses of all kinds, codependency, setting boundaries in relationship, H's inner shame-basedness, how our religious backgrounds (law & legalism vs. grace & real spirituality) contributed to who we are and the mess we are in, etc. <p>I learned what the marriage covenant as God planned it to be is, and I believed God expected me to have faith for what we might become, not just jump out immediately because statistics say H won't change. I would trust God's leading and timing. Dan Allendar's book, Bold Love, and the Rockey's tapes "Binding the Wounds" (www.itsfixable.com) helped me see beyond the behaviors to love H's soul enough to do what's right with desire for restoration from past damage. But then, how far should faith go and I in common sense for safety/sanity get out?<p>My position as wife is first to please God and like the Prov.31 woman, to do good to my H (even when that came to mean toughness, getting the counseling and help resources he didn't want but needed, speaking the truth firmly but in love, etc.) When a husband is so completely resistant to growth and abusive, it is tough being the W, but God wanted to mature me too...and I would have to walk with God through this oppression to growth until He delivered me. I had some definite "signs", promises that HE was with me
and leading and that a day of deliverance would come. <p>I hoped the next thing God led me to do would fix H, but God would have to do the fixing; I was supposed to focus on what God expected of me. Yes, that meant being loyal to "the picture",but always being alert to when H crossed the lines and was it time to leave for my sake or the children's. <p>I learned at www.familylife.com that bringing H to accountability according to Matt. 18:15-19 would show where H's heart was (hard or soft). Many Christians say, only adultery is Biblical grounds for separation/divorce. But no, Jesus said it is "hardness of heart" that God ever allowed divorce. <p>I got the Wife Abuse tapes from June Hunt (www.hopefortheheart.com)and realized I may have to report H to law authorities. <p>H dropped me off at Harley's seminar saying he had nothing to learn! He has continued to deny his problems and blame/shame me, blame others and circumstances, etc.

Finally, recently, there came a day, I felt in my spirit, God "release" me. It was unmistakeably, God, not a mental decision I'd made or an emotional giving up (which I have felt many times). It was HIS time to pull me out of the picture. And the next thing I knew we were in the attorney's offices. <p>And now?...I believe until the divorce is FINAL I am still H's wife, wearing my ring and continuing to speak the truth, leave the house if he's out of control, and doing loving things that shock him even more now....and when he moves out and the divorce is final, maybe he will realize what he left. The scripture says to love your enemy, (and indeed H has acted as my enemy), "love those who despitefully use you and speak all manner against you..." <p>I hope I have been obedient to the principles of Scripture inspite of my own weaknesses. I know I have grown in character. H's issues are not too big for God, and God will continue to work on him... The rest is God's job.<p>In answer to your questions, H has not prayed with me much, unfortunately, but you can pray for him (Book, Power of a Praying Wife). <p>Yes, I've struggled greatly with the whole "divorce" thing as a Christian. I feared God would hate me if this ended in divorce, even though obviously H's choices were involved in this. I feel that I have come to see the real heart of God about this issue. Where God said He hated divorce in Malachi, He said it because HE is love and righteous and his standards are so. What He hated was men divorcing good wives to marry heathens, being unfaithful and abusive. Throughout scripture, God hated oppression too, and led people through it and rescued them out.
There are Biblical grounds for divorce--God allowed it, when as Jesus said, men's hearts were hard (refusing to stop sinning and refusal to grow). <p>I knew very early that this isn't a marriage. But I believe God expected me to do all I could to achieve a real marriage and righteousness. But when H was confronted by counselors and pastor and refused to change, God has in grace delivered me by H filing for divorce.<p>If H had not filed, I believe God would have found another way to deliver me from a hard-hearted man. In my case, God helped me become stronger, that H couldn't take it anymore.<p>[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: Renae ]</p>

mikkey....SNL- from reading some of your other posts, I think you have made your own fog and its thick and deep. You don't seem based in reality at all. I "hear" you talk round and round and round, trying to convince yourself of what you think is right. <p>snl..Thx for your observation, some make that one, I consider it...but what I think is this is hard stuff to understand, and worthy of effort to do so, I have no interest in convincing myself I am "right" that would be pointless...what I seek is understanding, and I have found it.<p>mikkey...I don't see concrete decisions on your part although you talk round and round. It appears you want to let the other partner do all the work and are still determined not to be happy and NOT giving it your best shot.<p>snl..define best shot? I think I have given it my best shot...the problem is we (each of us) seem to think we know what each others best shot is...why is that? And there have been lots of concrete decisions, starting with my decision to no longer avoid conflict...to no longer feel responsible for others happiness, to be true to myself, I also did a number of things such as spending more time together, trying to meet en's, counselling, not lb'ing...there is no magic formula, this stuff is not just going to work cause you want it too.<p>mikkey...Relationships don't work by osmosis. If you are so unhappy, why don't you DO something about it, MAKE A DECISION, instead of acting the martyr? <p>snl...I do not feel like a martyr at all, why do you say that? I am just a garden variety co-dependent, and it has been hard to break that.<p>mikkey...Things aren't going to fall in place, just because you "wish" them. I feel sorry for your partner because it seems like she is hitting her head against a brick wall.<p>snl...no comment.<p>mikkey...If divorce were so simple and the easy answer, why are so many divorcees terribly unhappy afterwards? <p>snl..they aren't usually, once people get themselves straightened out, and work through the grief of something ending.<p>mikkey...Both parties, not just the one who didn't want the divorce. I haven't even heard of the one wanting the divorce is 100% happy unless there was physical abuse or sadistic mental abuse involved.<p>snl..I thought many here say happiness is a decision, so guess those have decided to be unhappy huh? It never ceases to amaze me how in so many subtle ways folks imply (as you are here) it makes no difference who you are married too, if they don't abuse you, you should be perfectly happy/content to spend a lifetime with this person...why do people think that? Yet would seriously resist anyone telling them who to marry, seems almost hypocritical. I am pretty sure there are very few people I can successfully be in a marital relationship with. <p>mikkey...The opinions of the people on this board about divorce are probably way different than the people who haven't given their spouses another chance and just marched right to the lawyer. They are at least interested in reconciliation and in addition are putting forth a great EFFORT (you know, doing the things they are supposed to, whethere they feel like it or not, I may add)to make the relationship better. Whether it works out or not, is another matter, but at least they are interested in giving it their best shot, despite the pain, anger, anxiety and everything else that goes with it.<p>snl... I agree, and think that is the way to go...as long as their is no expectation of only one outcome....as long as the effort is about decideing whether you really want to be married, after both have done whatever they do in this effort, and they amicably part if it doesn't work...when it isn't amicable, it was deceptive and manipulative IMO.<p>mikkey...I think people who don't have children don't have as much agony as those who do, simply because they are worried about the effects, outcome of those children. <p>snl..I agree, plus we have pounded in our heads our children are doomed if they come from a divorced family...not true, but there it is.<p>mikkey...I hate to see you so sad all the time, but I think it is mostly your own making because you have the ho-hum attitude that it was never meant to be and you can't do anything about it, and you are gonna stick around in your marriage, but it is with the wrong attitude which is very destructive to those who have committed to you.<p>snl...So I am the problem huh? I am just a no-good insensitive ho-hum don't give a damn man...ok.<p>mikkey...I'd be interested in how your children are relating to your situation. <p>snl..They are pretty much leaveing it up to me and thinker to work out, they have lived with this tension for years, it is nothing new.<p>mikkey...What do you tell them? Your decisions, actions, examples now are going to be the role model for them to copy when they get out on their own. <p>snl...We discuss the need for radical honesty, the importance of fit, and how to deal with their temperaments (the ones like me). I asked my oldest daughter if she thought less of me (and I said so, would be ok), I thought she might express some dismay, she was very surprised and said she respects me a lot, and thinks I am doing the best I can under difficult circumstances.<p>mikkey...You need to take affirmative action and DO the things that will make your marriage better.<p>snl..That assumes the marriage should continue, often it should not, and that is the best action for both people...again you show the bias toward preserving marriage, instead of focusing on the mental health of the people in the marriage... I know now my fundamental difference with many (the rule maker temperaments), they value the picture, the fact a marriage exists, they are not particularly concerned with how it came about, or should it continue, just that it exists...others (including me) think marriage should meet certain standards, and if not, should amicably end, as it is not a healthy place for the people in it...they stress each other by their very existence, cause they do not fit well, even though both are decent good human beings by themselves...they bring out the worst in each other. <p>Let me ask you mikkey, do you care who you are married too, or only that you are married (I forget your exact circumstances, I seem to recall you are not doing well...consider this sort of generic), do you "love" your H just cause he is your H....... if you were married to someone else and then met your H, would you leave for him, would you love him more? If you value marriage and the spouse, just cause they are your spouse, then you worship the picture, the person is irrelevant, you will love whoever you are married too, it is the marriage that determines your actions....that is incomprehensible to me...it is people that are important, and we fit each other differently, and the better the fit, the more likely marital ssuccess will be achieved....I don't know where the threshold is, but I suspect it vaires with individuals, but it is very real. In-love does NOT follow action, it can only exist cause of fit.... I can be "nice" to any number of women, and they to me...but that would not make me want to be married to them, I would have to force myself to do so....that is almost intuitive, and when pressed most agree....ok, then what happens when you marry withoug doing proper due diligence, and you realize it doesn't work, will never work, can only be made tolerable, even content...you just accept that? Your life is over? You just work at meeting someones needs forever...why? Why would you do that? That is the problem mikkey, and that is why despite all kinds of counselling, MB, divorce busting, etc. etc. we still have huge divorce rates, and most marriages basically unhappy...it is not about just "doing it" it is about fitting someone closely enough you can do it.... and recognizing the damage done to both of you when it isn't going to happen...the anger, the depression, the constant friction, the walking on eggshells, the saddness as you know you stress someone so you try to change who you are instead of them being drawn to who you are....it is all about fit, and poor marital choices in the ignorance of youth, and the rush of hormones to mate and procreate, and live the "fantasy".

Mikkey,<p>I am not divorced, and that I believe is because somehow I knew not to just rush off in my pain and anguish to get rif of the bum. Now we are in recovery (early stages) but I am certain that it was because I held on, plan a'ed (even before I kenw what it was and even before knowing there was an A, just knowing of attraction to OW).<p>Of others I have known whose H's had A's then divorced, most have come to regret not trying to work it out for awhile first. Especially those who just ran out and got a divorce lawyer upon finding out about the betrayal. Even many of the WS also because OP did not live up to expectations of pre-divorce. Reality hits hard!

<p>[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: firefly10 ]</p>

SNL round and round we go. Forget it. May the &#8220;understanding&#8221; your have found bring you some kind of peace. Can&#8217;t see it, but good liuck.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> ... I agree, and think that is the way to go...as long as their is no expectation of only one outcome....as long as the effort is about decideing whether you really want to be married, after both have done whatever they do in this effort, and they amicably part if it doesn't work...when it isn't amicable, it was deceptive and manipulative IMO. <hr></blockquote><p>I&#8217;m not saying there is only one outcome, but to strive to make the marriage work. After all, people got married for a significant reason in the first place, unless it was arranged.
Oh, and arranged marriages don&#8217;t fail as often as today, because back in the old days, they didn&#8217;t have the option of running off. Maybe they found alternative arrangements (mistresses/lovers on the side) but generally no, I don&#8217;t think that is the case.<p>SNL if you are waiting for the &#8220;few people&#8221; you are compatible to be married with to come forth or be there through cosmosis (made up word, I agree) then there is really no point in being on this earth. Its like you are a lost nomad on a fruitless journey. Could be the &#8220;soulmate&#8221; you think you have lost would have turned out really wrong too. Are you going to decide to go searching forever and never be &#8220;happy&#8221;? If you decide your happiness doesn&#8217;t include a mate, kudos to you.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> snl...So I am the problem huh? I am just a no-good insensitive ho-hum don't give a damn man...ok. <hr></blockquote> No, M&#8217;s take 2 people, each giving 100%, maybe not 100% all the time, but each striving for that. The 50/50 thing doesn&#8217;t work. You sound very apathetic many times because of your &#8220;no fit&#8221; theory. Apathy doesn&#8217;t get you anywhere. You need to have somekind of motivation or goal. I don&#8217;t have a clear vision of what your exact goal is. If you have a goal, you have to have some kind of passion for getting there. Wishing ain&#8217;t gonna get you there.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> again you show the bias toward preserving marriage, instead of focusing on the mental health of the people in the marriage...<hr></blockquote>
It hasn&#8217;t been shown that divorce improves the mental health of the 2 individuals, more data conflicts with that than corroborates it. YES, The bias is preserving marriage. Isn&#8217;t that what this website is all about? If you believe in the God of the Bible, he has given us a picture of what it supposed to be like, and we all know we fail miserably at being Christ-like, that doesn&#8217;t mean that we are supposed to give up.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> do you care who you are married too, or only that you are married (I forget your exact circumstances, I seem to recall you are not doing well...consider this sort of generic), do you "love" your H just cause he is your H....... if you were married to someone else and then met your H, would you leave for him, would you love him more? If you value marriage and the spouse, just cause they are your spouse, then you worship the picture, the person is irrelevant, you will love whoever you are married too, it is the marriage that determines your actions....that is incomprehensible to me...it is people that are important, and we fit each other differently, and the better the fit, the more likely marital success will be achieved....I don't know where the threshold is, but I suspect it varies with individuals, but it is very real. In-love does NOT follow action, it can only exist cause of fit.... <hr></blockquote>
I am in love with the person I married to. That&#8217;s why we got married, made vows. The &#8220;cause of fit&#8221; thinking doesn&#8217;t work. When I took vows, it was to be true forever, not that I am perfect and don&#8217;t make mistakes. I make big ones. My H made a big one. The biggest that he made though, was &#8220; NOT GUARDING HIS HEART&#8221;. The woman right out of Proverbs 5 came and devoured him. I am married to my H. Therefore I will not be meeting anyone else that I will give him up for, because I would make sure &#8220;I GUARD MY HEART&#8221; against such. That is an active DECISION I have made. Made it the day I got married. Even if in the end and this does not work out, I will probably never marry again. Its too much work, and I have no intention of letting my heart go out for play I married until death do us part. Not until &#8216;this is too much trouble&#8221;, I married him for &#8220;better or worse&#8221; , and this is one of the worse times. So he will have to divorce me, and then it won&#8217;t be a divorce in my mind. heart, or in God&#8217;s eyes. Because I am the one with the cause for divorce, and I choose to stick with him.<p>Lord knows my example was my parents who also married despite great opposition and handicaps. My mother broke her neck when she was 17 yrs old. She remained in a w/c the rest of her life. She got married when she was 26. Thus, my father knew he had the responsibility to care for her and the family for the rest of his life. My parents never got ONE SINGLE DISABILITY check from the government for my mother&#8217;s problems. Not one.
The marriage was work, and they didn&#8217;t give up. They may have felt like it at times, but persevered. My father had to lift her in and out of the car, up steps, and down, put her to bed, get her up. Lots of medical bills, more than most people. He did the shopping for clothes, food, household stuff, all of it. Taking her with most of the time. When he was in WWII and KOREA, she stayed with her mom, who helped raise us those few years. They even called him to Vietnam, and he was still set to serve his country, but he didn&#8217;t pass the physical&#8230;.extremely high blood pressure. He was supposed to get a cardiac cath, which was a new procedure at that time, and the chances were 50/50 he would even make it off the table, so he said NO, because he had a disabled wife and three children to think about. So they discharge him and he went to school, besides working full time. This man had gumption and life wasn&#8217;t a picnic. He had to do a lot more than most people would consider &#8220;their fare share&#8221;, even sewing clothes (I&#8217;ll never forget the first time he bought a Kenmore Sewing Machine and proudly made us girls skirts!!) Maybe your theory of &#8220;positive fit&#8221; didn&#8217;t work, but they didn&#8217;t pay attention to that, they had made a decision, and stuck by it.
Shortly after my mom died at age 62, the highway patrol saw my dad parked along side of the road and stopped to see if there was a problem. My dad was crying, grieving the loss of his wife, and was just overcome with grief at that point in time. He didn&#8217;t have too many hobbies, because she was his hobby. His whole life was centered around her and many psychologists today would say that&#8217;s a sick thing. I don&#8217;t think so. He died 2.5 years after her, of congestive heart failure. He was losing the ability to care for her before she died&#8230;had a hard time lifting her because of his breathing&#8230;..(started smoking at age 10 behind the barn&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;people were ignorant of the facts in those days. Today there is no excuse for smoking&#8230;&#8230;but, it&#8217;s a decision people make, despite knowing the hazards they are risking&#8230; )
We have huge divorce rates because people are selfish and think only of themselves. They think the grass is greener on the other side, when they get there, they find it&#8217;s a quicksand covered with green algae. It looked nice from afar, but up close it&#8217;s a death pit. They don&#8217;t do the &#8220;rule of protection&#8221; either through laziness, ignorance, or boredom I guess. They get &#8220;off track&#8221;. I think basically it all comes down to our sinful nature and taking the sin to the utmost, because people don&#8217;t think of life after death, only the pleasurable NOW&#8230; You know, eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we may die, sort of thing. However, somewhere along the line when they did decide to get married, they decided not to be selfish for a time. I agree that the majority of people don&#8217;t really give it a lot of thought before they get married. In our case, it was an agonizing decision for both of us, and there was a lot of opposition. So, we thought about it long, and hard, and got several kinds of counseling prior to marriage, because we wanted to cover all bases. Still nearly 20 years later, look where we are&#8230;.although I think his MLC and Dad&#8217;s death have about 80% to do with it.<p>FIREFLY 10 Thank you for your response. Your story and mine have a lot of parallels. Thank God for these boards. I am going to do a poll of the divorced people I know in person. Some of them have good relations with their x&#8217;s. but most do not. Its like enemy lines have been drawn. This is terribly hard on the kids. <p>I just read Dr. Dobson&#8217;s letter and it confirms the belief I have had that a divorce in our case would be much more devastating to our 16yo son than to the younger daughters. I think girls are more resilient for one thing. This past year, because of his traveling job, H hasn&#8217;t seen the kids as much as what used to be &#8220;normal&#8221; and its been hard on us all. If that contact were to be even less, &#8230;&#8230;..well, I don&#8217;t like to think about it. <p>RWD thanks for your input. I am sorry it did not work out for you. Do you think the OM has continued to be the &#8220;true love&#8221; of her life? Did you have kids? What was the time frame for you to get the D after first finding out about om? <p> GOD IS IN CONTROL -------- I think you are right, what really gets me, is if they can&#8217;t forgive themselves, didn&#8217;t they think of what the outcome would be? Its like they go off half-cocked. And if they did really think about it, why couldn&#8217;t &#8216;they just have told BS BEFORE going off, they they simply wanted a divorce before doing the most corruptive thing they could of, against someone they had at least professed to love at one time? My H talks of doing &#8220;damage control&#8221; now, I haven&#8217;t told hardly anyone, and he doesn&#8217;t&#8217; want me to let it out either.<p> LETSTRY AT least you gave it your best shot and have that as a positive re-enforcement of the positive kind of person you are. I bet you learned a lot and grew in this time. You can&#8217;t beat a dead horse to make it go. I&#8217;m sorry for you. I bet that OW will also be another BS in the future, as your H didn&#8217;t have the wherewithal to stop the hurtful behavior and just continued to have his needs stroked. He&#8217;ll move on, and on, and on.<p> RENAE 8217;m glad you got counseling and sorry it didn&#8217;t work out. Sounds like you also really worked on it. <p> Jabber I hear the same outcome with several of my friends. In the case of one. She had one failed marriage and is staying in the second even though she is unhappy, simply because she missed on the first (was a BS) and didn&#8217;t want to feel like a failure again. She also met her second H while the divorce was pending, and she had a relatively new infant to care for, so felt she needed someone.
RENAE <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> At one stage, I struggled with feeling like a failure for having been so naive, but then I realized, the only failure is what you haven't learned from and maybe God had a bigger plan in all this, for our growth and restoration and perhaps a ministry for me to other hurting people later. <hr></blockquote> That&#8217;s a great testimony, but one you didn&#8217;t come to overnight. My faith too, is the only thing that gets me back on track when I fall off, which is still too often. Thank God he is so gracious to us. His example also lets us know we do have it in us to forgive others too. It sounds like you have come to a sort of peace and have grown a lot. I will check into those websites you listed too. Thank you.
Mikkey<p>[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: Mikkey ]</p>

I can't answer why others divorced, but in my case, I did it because the marriage was not really a marriage. I wanted a partner. I had become a servant. In the beginning I tried hard to save the marriage, but as the saying goes, it takes two. There wasn't an affair; I just wanted out. I had buried the obvious for years; we should have never married in the first place. There was never a great love, sadly on both our parts. The thought of spending another five years with someone who went out of his way to hurt me, made me sick. There was a lot of confusion in the beginning, but instead of seeing my H work toward what he said he wanted, he only dug his heels in deeper. <p>I was married for 16 years and never thought that we would dislike each other as intensely as we do now. My ex is bitter. I am appauled at the way my ex has divorced his children as well. I regret the hurt that my children have suffered due to the divorce, but I have never regretted not being married to my ex anymore.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mikkey:
<strong><p>Take example of all the arranged marriages in the world. Maybe they were never "meant" to be. The people in those marriages for hundreds of years have MADE A DECISION to work things out and even though they may not have known each other in the beginning, you hear of many of them having wonderful, loving relationships throughout the years. So, its not the cosmos decisions that make a marriage, but the people themselves.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Mikkey, arranged marriages are a really bad example to use in my opinion. In many countries where marriages are arranged women have almost no power in society and very limited power at home. They usually have to stay in a marriage regardless of abuse due to societal and family constraints.
Is that the kind of marriage model you want people here to adopt? Put up with anything because society says so? No thanks.
I wasn't the one who persued divorce in my marriage but now that I am I couldn't be happier. No we didn't fit anymore, plain and simple. When we were young we did but with age our goals and desires changed and just being around each other was stressful. He wanted the divorce but I don't regret it.