WH and I are separating, (Plan B) per Steve Harley recommendations. SNL is suppose to be out by Sunday Midnight. Plan B according to what I have read is total separation, no contact, work on yourselfs. My WH is suggesting he be allowed to come back to our home for showers, food, take phone calls, business calls, etc. He is going to live at a house that we have been renovating for his mom. It has a toilet, and sink, heat, running water. He will have a refrigerator, microwave, and some other things. The TV is already there, his bed will be moved over there, and his computer will be moved over there. Since he posts on MB, and uses it for other things. There is already a couch and recliner there too.<p>This was WH idea to live there, I did at one time suggest that I find an place to live and the kids would have to defend for themselves. But STeve thinks this is better for SNL to move out, I stay here with the kids, and get things organized and sorted out, and papers done. <p>SNL basically wants the plan B to be his way, and is getting angry with me. He says I am being irrational and that if I had sense I would do what he says! I reply so that you don't get pissed off, we follow your plan. He said yes. Well, I told him this is only for a few days, we have an appt. this week with Steve either Wed, or Thurs. and lets have him be our coach. SNL body language shows distaste, and is now taking a nap.<p>I don't want WH here to not be protective and not caring for me. It hurts to see him on the computer so much, to not say goodnight, to not help make something to eat for me, I still make him breakfast, and of course dinner. I would love to have the caring and sensitivity from him. <p>The way it seems now, if I don't do as he says, he will be pissed off, and therefore the anger will come out. If I do it his way, it is not Plan B. He stated to me, do it the way I want and I won't be pissed off. SNL seems to think his way is the only way. I said lets wait and talk to Steve, let him help us out. He states, we need to talk about this and we haven't yet. We started once, and it turned into an argument. I can see it now, we will do it SNL way (so he doesn't get angry at me) he will be happy and I will be sad. Someone will have to give, I already told STeve in last counseling that I am willing to do some changes, but I feel SNL needs to do the same.<p>Should we just wait and talk to STeve, since it
is only days away?

Hi thinker,<p>I am under the impression that Plan B is to protect YOU, therefore it is you who makes the plan which suits you best. If you don't want him to come home and shower, etc, then it is a boundary that you enforce, lovingly of course.<p>Plan B is not being a doormat while he is out there living like a single man, coming home for home comforts. It is no contact....to protect yourself and what little love may be left.<p>If you are really going into Plan B, that is what it is, no contact. Seems to me, SNL is a little bit afraid of totally letting go. However, Plan B, with no contact will allow him and you to see what it is like without each other. For me it was a good thing. I learned that I actually can survive without him.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Jackie - that is what I thought Plan B is too, protect ourselves from each other. There is too much of do it your way going on here. He seems to have set the scene for what it is now. When he is on the computer it is a trigger for me. What he says to me is get over it. This is how he met the OW who lives 2000 miles away. Started on a religious board, to private e-mails, to personal cell-phones, to sex, to personal cell-phones, and then he got dumped.<p>I personally don't want to have him around, for awhile. The hurt he has contributed here is so awful. I did become a doormat, I felt like a doormat, did many things for him. Kids complain to this day on how much time he sits at the computer. <p>The thing is it seems SNL is going to be so angry, lash out with unkind words, until I give in and agree totally to what he wants. I am a human with wants and needs. I am seeing a psychologist Monday (1st time) and I will talk to him about this very subject if allowed.<p>SNL seems very good at being able to power over someone else. It is a controlling symptom. I am not that headstrong, and am a follower usually. The reason we have come to this separation (Plan B) is Steve Harley said there is nothing else he can see to do, we need to separate, to protect ourselves from each other, be supportive to each other, be protective to each other, be thoughtful to each other, and to show the love that we have. No LBing and no anger. And to have Steve Harley as our coach!<p>Will see what happens, still have the rest of the weekend for him to move out. I really didn't want this separation, and it is really killing me, and I know it is hurting the kids. But with talking with Steve, he said there is no other choice, SNL choose to not follow the MB plans as stated in the books. He chose to not do the homework. And when Steve asked SNL what his plan was, he couldn't give Steve an answer. So I feel, I have no other choice, I am hurting inside, and my Dr. increased my antidepressant. This is ugly, hurting, breaking everyones hearts, and it is so unfair to the family. Anyways, talk to you later. Thanks.<p>[ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>

thinker, <p>I realize I may not be your favorite person right now, but I wanted to let you know that Plan B, as I understand it, is NO contact of any kind until the wayward person is willing to work the program and work on the marriage. <p>Now, as I understand it, if SNL were to be trying to work the MB plan but occasionally made mistakes or backslid a little (as we all do)--OR--if here was willing to do the homework and making time for it but doing a mediocre job...THEN there might be an agreement reached where you two could have some limited and structured contact. But the idea of Plan B is to let the wayward person suffer the consequences of their choices not to pursue building the marriage. Not as a punishment, mind you...so be careful there. You are NOT punishing SNL. You are allowing him to face the consequences of his decisions, and his decisions have been to NOT work on you and NOT work on the marriage and NOT work on reconciling. <p>THUS, the natural consequence is that he does NOT get the benefits of being a person married to you. Just by chance, does he own his own business or something? You mentioned "taking business calls" and that's usually something that someone does at work. Anyway, no. As I understand it, having the privileges of showering at your house and eating at your house and taking calls at your house were all lost when he chose to NOT work on the marriage. He has the absolute RIGHT and FREE WILL to choose to turn his back on you and your marriage, but if he so chooses, then he forfeits the privileges of you cooking for him...taking phone calls...and showering at your house. <p>He's a big boy now. If he refuses to work on the marriage and put forth the effort of reconciling, then he also chooses to figure out a way to shower on his own (NOT AT YOUR HOUSE), figure out a way to plan and cook all of his own meals, and figure out a way to take and receive his phone calls (NOT AT YOUR HOUSE). That is the decision HE has made, not you.<p>So...just a word of wisdom. As you may know, my husband and I are also separated. I do have some friendly contact with him a)because I'm weak, and b)because he is working on his own anger issues. In other words, I think he is making efforts--it's just that right now I still need to protect myself until he masters the anger. ANYWAYS, if SNL comes at you with mean, insulting, hurtful, spiteful words because you are bravely making him face the consequences of HIS OWN decision, here are some techniques you can use:<p>1) The Broken Record: no matter WHAT he says to you, keep saying, "You made the decision to not work on our marriage." He will try to push your buttons--just keep saying it.<p>2) The Time Out: if he starts getting heated and you do not want to deal with it anymore, yell: "Time OUT" and make the T sign with your hands. Walk away and do not come back and talk to him for one hour. If he follows you around and won't stop, go to another room and close the door. If he follows you and opens the door, leave the house. DO NOT respond, just walk away.<p>3) RUN AWAY: When you feel yourself being hurt and hurt and hurt, stop YOURSELF from saying hurtful things and just run away. Go anywhere else where you will be safe and not have to hear it anymore.<p>4) Counselor Mode: Disengage your heart and listen to him get angry as if you were a disinterested counselor in a session. Do not listen to it "personally"--listen to it like from a distance. <p>5) STOP IT: This may or may not work for you. When he gets so angry and you feel he is FORCING you to do it his way, say, "STOP IT! There are two of us in this relationship and my opinion will be respected." Period. Do not say ANY MORE. <p>Okay. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Most importantly of all, when you feel the hurt welling up inside of you, just get away from him. Stop your own self and go somewhere else.<p>CJ

thinker,<p>Plan B is Dr. HARLEY'S way - if you have been counseling with Steve or Jennifer, then your Plan B should be planned with them. The main structure of Plan B is, indeed, no contact. Plan B is designed to give YOU the separation you need in order to find yourself again and to adjust in the case of divorce. It is designed also to prevent the WS from making any more withdrawals from your love bank - i.e., to protect the love you have left for him.<p>If SNL does not want to work at your marriage after having cheated on you and been dumped, then he must suffer the consequences of his actions. That does not mean live somewhere else some of the time, but come and go as he pleases in your home - quite the opposite.<p>Talk to Steve or Jennifer. Write down YOUR Plan B rules. Plan B is not for the WS to adjust to his choosing - nope, nuh-uh ...<p>Wishing you the best...

Faithful wife - I am printing this out so I have it to study tonight, and pray about it. You don't know SNL, he is so strong willed. Just like an hour or so ago, he said no one can tell us what to do, we can decide what plan B is. This is why I can't talk about plan B as yet, I want to wait till we talk to Steve on this Wed. at 12noon our time. As you can see, it seems SNL is going to push his issues at me, and it is going to escalate into a big argument. Cause like you said, he chose to not work on the marriage according to the MB plans. He kept saying to me & Steve why should I do it, just fake it. And Steve told him yes, then it will come naturally. I feel that you don't believe what I say about SNL. That is okay, I have to live here.<p>Yes, I am careful of what I say here, yes, your posts were not of my liking per say. But I heard what you said, and printed quite a bit of it. You can see, that SNL likes to debate, and I feel this is going to be a debate with me, and with Steve.<p>Yes, we own our own business. He will have the computer at the other house, TV, etc. He will have phones, and I can make another list of phone #'s for him to use. I will keep the Rolodex. As far as files, he doesn't use them that much. Just once in a great while. I file everything, and organized all the files so they are readily available for anyone to understand. I usually watch the phones and give him the service calls if he is out. But if he is not out, he can answer the phones, which he has done a lot recently, cause I have been in such a depressed state. <p>SNL will try to persuade me to follow his plan, but that is not Plan B. That is not protecting me, and that is not being thoughtful to me. <p>Faithful wife - I am seeing a specialist this Monday, and there is so much that I want to present to the psychologist. I am working on my paper as suggested in the other thread. Won't have it done by then, but some will be done to show the expert. <p>Terri - yes we are counseling with Steve Harley now. Jennifer basically gave us to Steve, she wasn't getting anywhere with SNL, cause SNL wouldn't give up the OW conversations on the cell-phone. He kept saying I need a couple of more weeks, and it continued on till Jennifer said enough is enough. We have an appt. this Wed. at 12 noon. That is what I want to do, is wait till then, but you don't know how pushy SNL has been about this. Just in the kitchen, he was getting pretty angry and saying we can't just do it your way. Which we can't, I want to do it the Harleys way. SNL has had the reins for 1 1/2 years, it is time the Harleys took over. I don't want the reins, I just want to counsel with Steve, and my psychologist, and to get the hurt out of this house, the unthoughtfulness, the uncaring, and the selfish acts of a WS. I want to feel human, and know that someone cares about me. Is that too much to ask?<p>Hopefully SNL will read this, but I have asked him to stay off my threads. So maybe he can read what is said here, and realize that Plan B is Plan B. The real thing. Separation, with no contact.

Thinker,
I would have a backup Plan B such as moving out into your own place. That way you can control who comes and goes into YOUR place. I would imagine that he will argue that it is his house too. That was what my now argued.<p>She just kind of came and went as she wanted. I changed the garage door combination, and while it was looked at badly by the kids, they couldn't get in, she finally saw I ment business, and she quit walking in any time she pleased.

RWD - this is ironic, this is exactlyl what SNL just told me a vew minutes ago. He told me this is OUR house, I know that, we all know that here. This is a temporary situation, to find ourselves. He is not excluded permanently from this house but for awhile. He stated that he needs to get parts and so forth, he could set up a shelf at the other house for the often used parts, and the rest leave here. The often used parts, are small, so wouldn't take that much room. I would help set it up and organize it for him. Have thought of a plan to organize his toletries and give him a place to put his clean underwear and socks in and his shorts, and shirts. He will have my help moving into the house, and we will go to the store to buy him some food. I will help with that, and wash his sheets for him to have clean sheets to sleep on. I will get him some towels for showering, and provide him with the comforts of home as can be. He can take some of his reading books, and then bring them back and get new ones to read. I just don't want much communication with him right now. The thoughtfulness has not been there and it has really hurt me. I feel this is the only way, it is not to hurt him, cause like I said at one time I offered to leave (And I do love my WH), but I was going to get an apartment. He didn't want to spend the money on an apartment, therefore he decided to live in this unfinished house. Plus he said it will give him time to work on the house and get it ready for his mom to move into it. <p>It will give him opportunity to work on finished his moms house so she can move in, give him time to work on the computer as much as he wants, it will give him time to maybe read and relax, stay up till 2am and then sleep in the afternoon. I hope this might get him to relax and not get so bent out of shape over little things. He needs to be the man I married. A caring, thoughtful man, that loves to be around family and really wants a marriage with all 5 of us. <p>I fear for tomorrow of sorrow, and SNL having hurt feelings. I don't want him to feel hurt, but what else is there to do, until we talk to STeve on Wed. It is not that long to ask for separation. Then Steve can coach us that day. We could both write a plan B I guess, but I really need to work on this paper of myself as suggested earlier. I want to do this to help my thoughts. So if I can, I will do a plan B and present it to SNL tomorrow. <p>We are planning on doing paperwork tomorrow, been more motivated, not entirely, but more motivated. Would like him to help, am stressed out and don't function on a normal level, so would love to have him help. Pray for us, and for a peaceful move for SNL. We all love him, and I do love my H. This hurts so bad, I hate to do this, but I feel there is no other way. Unless someone comes up with another suggestion. Thanks.

thinker,<p>You have your place and SNL has his. There is no reason for him to come back into your home, even if it's your home temporarily, you deserve your privacy.<p>He needs to realize you guys will not be together anyone, seperate homes, separate lives...SEPARATE...<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

Anna - this is not going to be a good day! It seems SNL is not happy, I am SORRY, I am very SAD too. I don't think I even want to be here today, but I will, I promised we would work on paperwork today. By the way the house he will be staying at is on the same property of the barn where our horses are. I will be in the barn everyday cleaning stalls next week. The girls tend the horses, and it is only 3 miles away. He will have a refrigerator and microwave. The thread he wrote is making me quiver and weak. He has had emotional honesty from me, and trust.<p>Faithful Wife - Help me -
1. The Broken Record -
2. The Time Out -
3. Run Away -
4. Counselor Mode -
5. Stop it -
I feel this is going to be hard, I can see that he is in a angry mood already. Haven't gone downstairs yet, just got up & read his thread. Went to reread your 5 steps, this is gonna be hard. He seems to feel I am hurting him purposefully, I don't want to hurt him, and now he is writing this is trying to hurt SNL. No I am NOT! I am getting confused and feeling quite depressed. In fact I am feeling like #3. Why is he lashing out like this? He agreed to Plan B, I really don't want it, but with Steves counseling said this is what needs to be done. I LOVE my H, and this is unfair that SNL is putting the BLAME on me. I said I would talk with Steve on Plan B. SNL doesn't want to accept it. Counseling is only this Wed. at noon. I didn't ask for his affair and everything to follow. He did what he wanted to do. Now I feel we have to follow Steve Harleys plan. I know SNL is going to get upset with this, but I am hurting inside.<p>I will recite the 5 steps again!

Thinker,<p>Here's some advice...<p>Don't let his mood dictate what your mood will be...<p>You have control of your life, if you don't like what he is saying or feel bullied, walk away...<p>Take care of what you need, and if he bullies you and doesn't allow this seek help through our courts...<p>Take care,<p>ANNA

Anna - I don't think SNL will get that bad, but THANKS for the advice. I know he is HURTING too!

Okay you guys, this is already starting to get ugly. He came into our bedroom and I am sitting at my computer with a heating/vibrating back thingy on my back, since my back has been out of wach for the last 2 days. Starts in with the business, etc. I said it is only 2 1/2 days till we talk to Steve. Why won't he just let it be, he has not moved his bed out, he has not moved his computer out, he has not done much in moving. He is getting so angry, so mad, slamming things around downstairs. I said it is only 2 1/2 days, he said it is a big deal to him, he needs this, that, I said we can move all the small parts for business stuff onto a shelving unit over there. If he needs a motor he can ask me to see if we have it, we have done this before over the phone. And before he would tell me it is simple, just look at the #'s. Now he is saying it is difficult. You know, I am beginning to think I better move out. SNL is going to make this pure hell for me. I am cooperating, I am willing to do things, but I said for 2 1/2 days lets just don't contact each other, except for business. I feel he is so unreasonable, and look at the disrespectful comments made about me in his thread. I am not doing what he says, I have been more than happy to do things for him. Like when talking to Steve, I said I can make a dish of food and have one of the kids take it over. He to me seems to be using this business thing against me. Somehow, it seems that way. I will do my stuff here, and I feel that SNL is getting so angry and hostile because he has lost control of the situation. Believe me I don't want the control, I want Steve Harley to be our coach. SNL doesn't want him to be our coach. Just stated that a little while ago. Pray for me, pray for SNL - please! Guess I will get off the heating pad and go downstairs for trying to get paperwork done. PRAY PLEASE!

Also, came in to tell me that he would like me to go with our oldest daughter to Georgia for a horse show this week. Leaving tomorrow AM, asked me if I would go then said he will give me time to think about it. Told him I have a mammogram appt. tomorrow, and psychology appt. and I don't want to give those up. I am getting more nervous, more feelings of depression coming on. I am being pressured with the trip, his unrealistic attitude about the plan B. Where does God finally take someone with them. I wish I could go now. I am human, I have deep feelings for H, I have emotions, and he wants me to disconnect all emotions now. He said think about it all logically. Lord help me NOW!<p>SNL has had 2 weeks to move things out, get organized. Seems he is running out of time. I am not doing this to hurt him, NOT MY WAY OF DOING THINGS! I am hurting by all this, and you can now see by the way he is writing, he is one angry man. The business situation is to be dealt with, but I heard his part and I don't like it. So that is why I said lets wait and talk to Steve. SNL will not consider anything I say as a plan, told me when he left the room, you are irrational, and not cooperating. I feel I am cooperating quite well, willing to do things, business, etc. But I would like total time away from him, till Wed. at noon. I would love for him to be here in this house for the counseling with Steve so that we could talk afterward about what the decision is. <p>As far as me making the emotions here. SNL has made the emotional status here for the last 1 1/2 years. He still has, and I don't see where anything will change. I am unable to set many standards here. SNL is a controller, and his posts are displaying that now. I am only asking for 2 1/2 days of no contact, not unreasonable, but SNL thinks it is. Therefore, he makes me the bad person, uncooperative, unreliable, and out to hurt him. This is not right, I don't like this separation, and I am not happy, and yes I have been crying a lot. Wish someone could get through his head, that he has set this scenery and now he has to build around it. This is going to be a very crappy day.<p>[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: thinker ]</p>

Thinker,<p>Set your own limits. If you are being pressured then you are letting him pressure you. You don't have to. Just say "no thanks" and leave it at that...<p>It's hard to learn how to emotionally detach, but you need to try. You will find you are much happier.<p>Well, I'm doing housecleaning and posting in between, I'm not getting enough done so I'll see ya'll later.<p>ANNA

Thinker,<p>I have a suggestion...<p>Get out of the house for awhile, go see a movie or go visit someone...<p>ANNA

Anna - it isn't that easy. I made a promise I would work on some paperwork, and my promises are true. Also, with the new event of me possibility going to Georgia with our oldest daughter, this is more pressure. I don't really want to go, I want to get my mammogram and see the psychologist tomorrow. This is so important to me to see the psychologist, and to help me start my path of finding myself. <p>As far as SNL goes, I know that he has buddies out there. So for the record, would be nice if SNL told who is getting angry, raising voice, body language is showing anger. I am just sticking to lets wait to see what Steve says, and it is only 1 1/2 days away. SNL hasn't moved very much out, just a couple of things, he procrastinates, and now today will be quite hectic and stressful for everyone, quick help dad get this moved, this moved, pack this up, etc. This is how a procrastinator moves. <p>As far as using this as a weapon. I am not using it as a weapon, I want to follow Steve Harley in his plan B. I would like to have it according to Steve, and then we can move on. SNL is disrespectful in stating the emotions are left up to him. He needs to reclarify that, I have taken a lot of emotional abuse from him, emotional upheavel over jobs, customers being irate (I have to talk to some of the irate customers) dealing with his mother cause he doesn't want to talk to her, dealing with his brother, cause he doesn't want to talk to him, dealing with my family, cause he doesn't want to have much to do with my family. Dealing with my dads illness, was very hard to do. And SNL was not what I wanted in my spouse to do for me. So it was unfair to say I haven't dealt with emotions. I also have had to deal with the business, get it started and deal with the customers for years now. He states that I know this job well, would of been nice to get praise and admiration from my boss. Hopefully, I will find a good boss who greatly appreciates my work. <p>He's seems to be so pissed off with I want to wait till Wednesday. I feel we need a moderator with us when discussing this issue. Like this morning, SNL got angry, upset, and basically called me irrational. I am not being irrational, I am protecting myself and SNL. Isn't that what Plan B, is to protect yourself and protect your spouse from you? This is all I am doing, not raising my voice, calmly telling him that we need to talk to Steve. There is not much more to tell, I will have to do some of the bills today, and if going to Georgia with daughter, I will have to pack clothes, and things. I don't want to mess my appts. tomorrow, I feel they are way to important for my physcial/mental health. <p>Wish SNL would quit pressuring me.

My heart goes out to you. I know your pain as I have had some of my own. This is what I did,don't know if it will help or not. I had been hurt so many times with cheating, lies, lies, and more lies, mental, verbal and physical abuse. I wish I had left him years ago but I couldn't, because I didn't want to. I loved him very much. I eventually started locking up my emotions so he could not get to me. I got to the point that I stopped crying and hurting so deeply, but I also got to the point that I no longer laughed. I did not like the way this made me feel at all. Even by turning away from him emotionally, I felt like he was still controling me. I finally started doing things that I enjoyed, without him. I turned to my friends for support and tried to open myself up for my sake, not his. I am finally feeling emotions again, but somehow I was able to detach myself from him emotionally, and not feel guilty about it. Now he is bending over backwards to meet my needs, and so far not asking or demanding anything in return. The sad part of this story, for him, is I don't care anymore. He is trying very hard, but I don't know if I will ever feel the same for him or be in love with him again. Besides he has too many things he needs to get straight with himself and I don't think abusive, controling people just change over night. I have found that the less I do to please him and cater to his wishes, the better he treats me. Take care of you! Become a whole, happy person without him, then if things work out for you it will be that much better. I wish you peace of mind and strength to endure. I don't know how to tell you to detach yourself from him emotionally, it just happened for me. Be careful that you don't loose yourself in doing so.

thinker, <p>As I said before, I realize I am not your favorite person right now, but I wanted to offer you some encouragement. Stay the course, girl, you are doing the right thing. Say that to yourself over and over again, out loud if you have to. You are doing the right thing. <p>Remind yourself that you do have options. You do not need to help SNL move--he knew it was coming and did not make adequate arrangements to get moved. That is HIS problem, not yours. Do not take on his problems--deal with your own and let him deal with his own. You knew this day was not going to be easy. In your heart of hearts, you wish he would stay and work on the marriage with you. In his heart of hearts, he wants things to stay "status quo" so that he can get the filing and cooking and laundry done but not be responsible to you. The fact is, this IS going to be a difficult day. <p>Soooo...here are a few options for you. You said you agreed to do some paperwork and that your word is true. Good for you--I admire that about you. However, you did NOT say that you would do the paperwork in the house, in the office, in his presence where he can speak to you angrily at will. Pack up the paperwork and go to the library or coffeehouse and do it. This will accomplish two things: 1) you will not have to listen to him, so your heart will be protected, and 2) you will not be tempted to "help him" so he will have to deal with his own issues.<p>Now, just so you know, my H and I owned a business together too. I worked with him, side by side, toe to toe for TEN YEARS building our business and making it prosper. We worked out of the home and out of a small office about 4 blocks away, so I have been a self-employed/home office person. I know that the pressures are enormous. Furthermore, I was not just the helpful W who's H started the business and she filed and did phone calls for him--I was an equal partner and worked as hard or harder than he did. Not only did I work my daily 10-12 hours on the business, but I also took care of the kids, their homework, laundry, cleaning, grocery shopping, etc.!!! It's EXHAUSTING. But I also understand that you feel a deep obligation to the business. It is your duty, right? Well, hon, guess what? YOU are more important than the work or the business, and you keep your focus on YOU.<p>If he needs a part, he can call you for the part--describe it or give you a serial number--and you can leave the part outside or in a mailbox or on a shelf in the garage, and he does NOT need to come into the house. If he needs a file, UPS it to him! Put it in his mailbox at his house. You do not need to have contact. If he needs to get business phone messages, he can arrange for remote pickup voice mail. <p>What I'm trying to say here is DON'T FALL FOR HIS EXCUSES AND ARGUMENTS. STAY STRONG, KEEP THAT BOUNDARY SOLID, AND SAY NO. NO. NO. NO. (See? The Broken Record technique) He can and will come up with every excuse in the book why you should make him meals and he works so hard and how can you...DON'T LISTEN!!! Don't even listen. HE made the choice to not work on the marriage, and now he is complaining because he is having to face the consequences. If he can talk you out of enforcing the rules, he will try!! Expect it. It's like a kid, testing the limits. Doesn't mom REALLY mean it when she says "come here" or do I wait until she says my middle name (then she REALLY means it). That's what he's doing here. Does thinker REALLY mean it?? NO CONTACT!!! What about meals, what about laundry, what about business?? <p>Guess he should have thought of all that when he chose to not work on the relationship, huh?<p>STAY STRONG!!! Grab up that paperwork and go to the library. Don't listen to his complaining and demands. Keep yourself ON TRACK, and BE SERIOUS. Okay? And BTW, I think the mammogram and psychologist are very, VERY important for you. Don't just give them up. <p>{{thinker}}<p>CJ

We worked on paperwork, he started out with what should I do. He is no dummy but acted like one. I said get the big pile of papers and bills and sort them out. He kinda went well, I don't really know what I am suppose to do. I was truely frustrated, and this is suppose to be an intelligent man. I said grap the stack of papers, huge stack, and sort them out on the table, which still hasn't been cleaned off from 4or5 weeks ago when he asked for chores for 1 hour. He has not yet completed the third. <p>Anyways, he asked me to sit at the table with him and work on the bills. He was asking me to get the stapler, get the manilla folders, get this file, etc. I said, why don't you get up and get what you need. I didn't ask him for anything.<p>No talk, just business, and no eye contact. I don't want this man around, he doesn't want me as his wife, so I have to do this. This man is not getting his icing on the cake. He doesn't deserve it, and he is the one to sit on a fence all this time. He is the one that lied to me, had sex with another woman, lied about giving her $7000.00 dollars, lied about taking and using 8-10 hours a day talking to her. This by the way took away valuable time for service calls, and calls to collect bills. Plus it was 1/2 of my money, I earned it by what I do with this business. <p>SNL walks around so happy now, I told him a couple of times disrespectful comment he made to me. He is going to realize how disrespectful he is to me. I will no longer just let it slide, he will hear disrespectful comment whenever I feel he is doing it. He tried rationalizing one episode today of disrespectful comment, I mentioned, and I walked out of the room. SNL has made his bed now he has to sleep in it. <p>The boys moved his stuff to the other house, SNL will have to make his own bed, set up his own stuff, and leave us be. I do want Plan B, no contact, I think this is only fair with all that has happened in the last 1 1/2 years. <p>I am sticking to my guns, but I will tell you this is hard. I would never in my life believe I would have to do something so awful as this. SNL doesn't seem to have a problem, he was disconnected from me with the OW in his life, and when they had sex he told her he divorced me mentally. So he really has not had to suffer like the BS, he had his cake and icing too.<p>The bills are done for now, some filing to do, some papers to work on, the pile is so small now, it feels good. I just don't have the motivation to do anything, and it is hard just to get up for the day. Anyways, thanks for all your help. Now you can talk to SNL on his thread. He seems to have an active thread going.