Let me preface the following by stating I know there is more to a healthy relationship than sex (save the flames). Sex doesn't make a relationship, but I do think it is a important part to a healthy relationship. My wife is a very controlling and manipulative person. Sex is no exception. Most of the time if I touch her in any way that appears sexual, she pushes me away. If I try to hug her or a quick kiss like I would my sister, all is fine. The 1 exception to this is if I have plans to go somewhere, she's then as horned up as a teenager. I can almost always initiate something if she knows I will break my plans. On the other hand, we can plan the romantic weekend away, back to don't touch me again. And lets all face it, yes the romantic weekend away is to just be together, no kids, kiss cuddle, all the rest of what goes with it, but it shouldn't be a struggle. In the discussions we've had, she said she wants more attention, I give it to her, set aside time for us, cooked the romantic dinner, no kids kind of thing. Pretty much anything she said she wanted, I've done. None of it has made any difference at all. She does what she wants when she wants. The real fun idea she has - is when I am going someplace that night, or maybe the weekend or something. She comes up and says "stay home we can have sex" Like and idiot I fall for it, but of course that night she's too tired, bored, pissed, has a headach or what ever will work.<p> I've heard many times no sex at home doesn't mean no sex. Could this all be due to an affair? Or is it just another aspect of manipulation? She doesn't spend huge ammounts of time out alone, so I can't see that she's had time to meet anyone and then have time for an affair. She does go out a night or 2 per week, but never late, never out to a bar. She might also go out for a few hours on a sat shopping.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tengu:
My wife is a very controlling and manipulative person. Sex is no exception. Most of the time if I touch her in any way that appears sexual, she pushes me away. If I try to hug her or a quick kiss like I would my sister, all is fine. The 1 exception to this is if I have plans to go somewhere, she's then as horned up as a teenager. In the discussions we've had, she said she wants more attention, I give it to her, set aside time for us, cooked the romantic dinner, no kids kind of thing. Pretty much anything she said she wanted, I've done. None of it has made any difference at all. She does what she wants when she wants. The real fun idea she has - is when I am going someplace that night, or maybe the weekend or something. She comes up and says "stay home we can have sex"
Or is it just another aspect of manipulation? She doesn't spend huge ammounts of time out alone, so I can't see that she's had time to meet anyone and then have time for an affair. She does go out a night or 2 per week, but never late, never out to a bar. She might also go out for a few hours on a sat shopping.[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Hey, sounds almost identical to my ex-wife - extremely controlling and "Don't TOUCH me" attitude. My ex was extremely highly sexed - always wanting it and after the long hours I pulled working, driving her all over the place running errands, etc. I was just too wore out, sex to me once a week was average, plus my health continued to worsen (I have the Persian Gulf Illness) but sex was ALL ABOUT HER and not mattered what I requested, etc. She was very selfish in her WANTS, etc. If I just touched or kissed her, she thought I wanted sex. A hug- I wanted sex, etc. And if I didn't do sex, she'd say I was teasing her and making promises for sex than abandoning her. Well, this began on our Honeymoon and continued nearly 18 years till I finally left. She would always talk about how I "disrespected her" but it was OK for her to talk down to me like trash and that was OK. We always had plenty of money for what she wanted, but if I wanted a few dollars for something, "NO! We don't have the money so stop being selfish!" Do you see what I'm getting at? Your wife is extremely selfish, controlling, manipulating and SELF-CENTERED. Marriage Counseling will help if and only if SHE is willing to have an open mind and be willing to listen to "the Voice of Reason" otherwise, you might have to go into Plan A.

tengu<p>if you don't have kids, get a divorce. . . . and find a real relationship. . . . those are very similar aspects to my X, and her family. . . they do not make for a lifetime of quality relationships. . . . . if you don't have an ideal relationship before kids, the stress of kids will only make it worse. . . <p>and without kids, why should she change? <p>she has some issues about control and the role of a wife. . . she has gotten these from her family of origin, and will likely not change as this behavior is how she was brought up to be. . . .<p>no kids, get a divorce, and start over again. . . <p>save youself a bunch of unproductive hassles and money and time and unhappiness and frustration . . .<p>wiftty

WhenIfindthetime,<p>
" if you don't have an ideal relationship before kids, the stress of kids will only make it worse"<p>it absolutely has, I don't blame my kids, or resent them, but I think much of this started after my son was born, and slowly went down hill.
<p>"and without kids, why should she change? "<p>I agree with this, but does the aspect of having or not having kids really matter here?<p>"she has some issues about control and the role of a wife. . . she has gotten these from her family of origin, and will likely not change as this behavior is how she was brought up to be."<p>Yes she does. Her mother never worked, was like June Cleaver, her father was the nit picking pain in the [censored] that always complained. She saw her mother as being used by her father, and doesn't want to be like that. So of course she over compensates. <p>Unfortunately I do have kids, a teenager, and a 4 year old. So what now. In all honesty, if it were not for kids I'd have left long ago. <p>
But I have 2 kids I love. A wife that doesn't want to work and makes any excuse not to. She has MS, and though takes medication which control it and has no real problems from it, she uses it as her trump card. She's never too tired (one of the symptoms of MS) to do what she wants to do, but anything she doesn't want to do, instant out. I guess part of me feels some obligation to not abandon her, be the ******* that ran out just because she had medical problems (which is not the case). And she does have many endeering qualities - when she wants to. I on ocassion see glimmers of the person I married, like a mirrage. You see it, and as you try to focus to identify what it is you see and it quickly fades, you are then left wondering if you really saw something.

Well, now you have to figure out what are the kids learning, and can you overcome the "lack of responsbility" action teachings that your W has?<p>In other words, what are your kids learning by your W's actions? and can you overcome it and teach them how to take self responsbility?<p>one consideration is that if one of your children is a girl, she will learn how to act as a wife like your W, and if you have a boy, he is bound to marry someone similar to your W, which will make his life difficult. . . <p>my suggestion is to get yourself and your kids into counseling to have them see and learn self responsbility as validated by a "interested" thrid party, instead of the kids having to pick sides and feel guilty. . . .<p>wiftty

the other is to practice NOT being manipulated by your W, and taking on the responsbilities of the house, and child rearing, etc, and teaching your kids self responsibility, and effectively, isolating your W from your life. . . .<p>ie, do not enable poor behavior, but instead of pointing it out, and arguing about it, ignore it and work around it, explaining to your kids, that if you want something done right, do it yourself, don't rely on someone else. . . .<p>I think the Townsend and Cloud book called "oundaries in Marriage " would seem an important read for you. . . . Once you set these boundaries up, she will not get her desired reactions from her manipulations, and therefore, will have to change her behavior to get some cooperation from you . . ..<p>Inthis way, you are teaching good manipulative resistant behaviors to your kids. . . . and then the therapist can confirm the behavior to your kids. . .<p>that's the best you can do. . . .

Just f&^%*&g great. So basiclly I have to commit mutiny (in her eyes probably). This should be real fun. You are right, I see some of her in my daughter. My toddler daughter is ver bossy. My son fights my wife head on, worse that a bulldog and a bull, he has no problems standing up to her, often to the point she goes ballistic from his repeated attempts to change her mind. I know a lot of it is from how tight she keeps him. <p>
what is a BPD cycle, I read it and could make much of it. She is always saying she feels trapped being a house wife, and lisong her self. Funny thing is she ges pissed if i suggest she get a job.<p>
What is the HNHN book???

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tengu:
<strong>I've heard many times no sex at home doesn't mean no sex. Could this all be due to an affair? Or is it just another aspect of manipulation? She doesn't spend huge ammounts of time out alone, so I can't see that she's had time to meet anyone and then have time for an affair. She does go out a night or 2 per week, but never late, never out to a bar. She might also go out for a few hours on a sat shopping.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>The idea that someone who isn't getting sex at home must be getting it somewhere else has no validity beyond (arguably) the statistical. Although, it is amazing how enterprising some people can be in finding the time and place for an affair.<p>I do not believe that the behavior you have described demands adultery for an explanation.<p>Oh, and the HNHN book is Dr. Harley's His Needs, Her Needs.