Hello folks,
Never posted on this particular board in my life. And for added anonymity I’ve gotten a new username. Usually I post on the recovery board so this is a BIG switch. My question has to do with when you know for sure, it’s time to give up.<p>Ok well nothing is that simple so here’s the short background. I’m a BS been in recovery for over 19 months. At this point I’m probably a poster child for a WS worst fear. I was Mr.MB for the first full year. Plan A’d my butt off, knew we could make it through this stronger. Recovery was somewhat one-sided and is no where near complete because W on the other hand wanted to sweep it under the rug and forget it. But she has routed for me to recover. Contact ended on D-day, I’m certain. I have regained a lot of trust, and don’t think she would ever repeat the offence. <p>I just seem to have lost a desire for this M. I read the books and put into practice the things that I thought would build this wonderful M. Fact is, I got the same M I had pre A and I have given up trying. Last week I was ready to move out, W begged me not too, so I made one last attempt. Agreed if she went to counseling with me, I’d keep trying. 1st counseling session was a disaster, for the first time in my life I really wanted to smack her, as she told the counselor MB was a just an excuse for me to change her. That she was there to get help for me to get over it and go back to life as normal.<p>Her problem is that she thinks ending the A was the end of her participation in rebuilding our M. My problem is I really have no desire to try anymore. Her lack of participation and the visions I carry have worn me down. The bottom line is that the only reason I’m still here is fear. “S-N-L will appreciated that” But really it’s the fear of dealing with a divorce, dealing with child custody, splitting assets, selling a home, losing an extended family and things I haven’t even considered yet that are keeping me here.<p>I’m confused, I believed that I shouldn’t make any major decisions in the early stages. You know you’re so traumatized, etc., etc. that you should wait at least a year. Now I actually feel like I should have walked day 1. I’ve waited my year+ + and it now seems like the fair thing to do. So what gives? Why can’t I just walk? Am I not really ready, or are you ever?<p>confusedVet<p>[ March 28, 2002: Message edited by: confusedVet ]</p>

confusedVet,<p>Your post really touched my heart. I feel for all that you are/have gone through. I have no idea who you are, but I will at least give you my thoughts.<p>My assessment: I think when you do as much as you have done to try to save your marriage unilaterally, it absolutely drains everything you have - emotionally, psychologically and physically. You have been a Giver for 19 months, it sounds like. That is an awful long time to be the one carrying the marriage. <p>Your W may have ended the affair, but it will take HER ACTIVE PARTICIPATION for you to bpoth ultimately have a fantastic marriage. Active participation means she not only takes, but she also gives and lets you take for awhile. You sound tired - dog tired, friend. And well you should be. <p>SOLUTION: Look, don't make such life changing decisions such as to D or not to D when you are so worn down. Consider stopping all the giving efforts for a period of several months and see if your W rises to the challenge, and starts to give to YOU. When you follow Plan A, you are in effect wooing your W. Well, now it is time for her to woo you. She needs to put out some bigtime efforts to show that the marriage and your love are supremely important to her. You need to frankly put the ball in her court, and tell her so. If she won't give when you are needing it most, then to me, that is the answer that you need to make a long-term decision. However, do know that although D solves some issues, others are raised, so you never get a free ride.<p>Know that your friends here really care about you and all that you have gone through these past 19 months. Pray for an answer, too. God does hear our prayers and the simple act of praying often brings relief, because at least you are doing something.<p>Wishing you peace and happiness, Desiree

Roll Me Away,<p>Thank you for the encouragement, I apologize it took so long for me to respond back. “Long busy weekend”
Your assessment seems to be right on the mark. I have been Dog Tired, I just don’t have the energy to give anymore. <p>As for taking a break, I started my break just over a month ago and am still on it. I agree that it is probably not smart to make a quick decision right now, I’ll ride it out a bit longer. Things have been better in the past few days, not that W picked up the ball but I started on anti-D’s again. I know the break will help but waiting for W to pick up the ball and seeing no signs of it got to me. Now that I’m the Meds I can see that depression was part of the fuel for my inquiring about divorce. <p>As for D causing other issues, I hear that. That is where my fear comes from. I look around and see so much anguish from people going through it. The kids are what really get too me, I can’t find a win – win in that situation. I see couples who battle with the kids in the middle and those who shield the kids by pretending it’s OK to have mom and dad and their respective “new mate” at the birthday parties and Christmas. It just seems to confusing in either case.<p>Prayer, now there is something that I need to get back to on a regular basis. It use to be part of my daily recovery ritual, I’ve let that slip.<p>Again, thanks for the support
CV

Sometimes you really get what you need when you need it! I have also been doing plan A for over 6 months, and there has been no consistent change in H. I am the BS and still in counseling which helps, but as stated sometimes you can be so tired! I appreciated the advice about not making a D decision when this tired, that would be more of a reaction I am sure. What makes this so difficult is the H and the OW still are flirting with an EA although the contact is sporadic!! Somedays I feel like pulling my hair out. We are in the process of relocating which I know will help but H is still entagled and I know he has to untangle himself, and sometimes that is so hard to watch. We have small children and I really want to do what I can to make this work, I know it can't be one-sided forever and that plan B has merit, but making the decision to implement plan B and those consequences seem to be to much to bear also. It is so hard to not feel overwhelming pity for one's self. I know taking care of me is so important. Being tired is being tired and prayer does help. Sometimes it is good to just vent also! <p>I hope and pray that you will feel better soon, and I loved what Desiree said about stepping back, that can be done without implementing plan B. BS need a break too and need to receive also!

DITTO! I know how you feel. I, too, feel like I don't even wan't to try anymore. Yet, I can't figure out why I haven't done anything about getting on with D. It has to do with the hassle of all of the details, finances, property, family etc. I have quit trying and emotionally detached myself from H. I was getting stronger by the day and need this strength to carry out D. Then out of the blue H does 180 turn around as far a most things go. He still won't talk to me much. But the funny thing is, I DON"T care anymore. It's too little too late. When he started trying harder, I decided to give it another shot...He is regressing back to old habbits already. I'm to the point that life is too short to spend the next ???months or years working on something that I wish I had walked away from 14 years ago. That's how long I've been on the roller coaster, so this is not a quick decision. But looking back I wish I had just gotten it over with then. I have app. w/C next Mon. trying to figure out why I can't just get on with it. It is what I want.
Good Luck! We can take advice and use it or leave it, but the bottom line is, we still have to decide what is right for us.

CV,<p>Glad that you have gotten back on the anti-depressants. Here is something else for you to think about. You have been Plan Aing and giving for so long, you have likely not allowed yourself to FEEL and PROCESS the hurt and anger. I have been here for nearly 3 years. I have seen this happen, even to couples in recovery. The BS often supresses a lot of emotions and feelings that sooner or later just have to be dealt with. I think you have just gotten to that point. I am not saying that things are just peachy with your marriage, but I am saying that part of the emotions you are currently dealing with may well be linked to just the whole affair deal.<p>I am glad you have started to think of yourself. You are not doing a selfish thing; you are self-nurturing in a time of grave need. I suggest you keep doing what you are doing. Give yourself more time. When the meds fully kick in, and after a good long rest, then you can sit back and see what's what. You know, the same half glass of water looks 100% differently to different people - the old "the glass is half full and the glass is half empty" story. In reality, it is just a half of glass of water, and our perceptions of it's fullness or emptiness are based on our EXPECTATIONS. Do ensure that your expectations of your relationship with your W are realistic and attainable.<p>I am keeping you in my prayers. Give your troubles to God, CV. Start praying for personal peace and happiness tonight. In time, these things will come to you.<p>Desiree<p>[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</p>

AKA confusedVet<p>OK first I can’t deal with the new name, it’s not natural. I went to confusedVet because the W reads my posts sometimes and I wasn’t sure about sharing these emotions until I got to some decision. Well it is what it is so why hide it.<p>Oh so confused,
Yes a good vent does wonders for the soul. I’m sorry you’re still dealing with contact. At this point I couldn’t, but I’ve been at this a while. For safety I always recommend a time frame. (Though I don’t always follow my own advice) Do consider placing a time limit on your plan A and never feel bad about a break. I’ve taken short ones in the past. This time I’m going for the extended version.<p>Longtime,
I’m sorry you’re in this place. I think you are in the “just don’t care” a bit deeper then I am. I see that your registration was just in March, not knowing your story I’ll assume the issues have just really come to a head? If that is true do consider taking some more time. Sometimes change is overwhelming for both sides. If you H showed some signs of change there may be hope. Human nature is to run back to what is comfortable, maybe he has done just that.<p>Roll Me Away
RMA Here is something else for you to think about. You have been Plan Aing and giving for so long, you have likely not allowed yourself to FEEL and PROCESS the hurt and anger. <p>Thank you for that statement it is so validating. I’ve never been perfect at a Plan A, who is, but I did jump right into the “Glass is half full” state from the beginning. I remember back to some of my post in the first few months and think who was this guy? He had it together so much more than the me of today. I also look back and chuckle to think that some of my blind optimism must have been annoying to the Vets, but that’s another story. <p>I have wrestled with the very thought you bring up. For the past few months I have realized I skipped a few steps. I went from total shock and denial to (self) forced forgiveness and a narrow focused view set on recovering. I do believe I never allowed myself the time to be truly angry or to properly mourn. Sure I had little outburst it’s impossible not too. My self-diagnosis. PTSD<p>Now I’m faced with figuring out what to do with that. I mean I can’t go back and scream, cry, break furniture and punish my W. The M wouldn’t survive that, she really doesn’t deserve it and I have no real desire to act that way. <p>RMA The BS often supresses a lot of emotions and feelings that sooner or later just have to be dealt with. …………………..but I am saying that part of the emotions you are currently dealing with may well be linked to just the whole affair deal. <p>Indeed I’m feeling the effects of the whole affair deal more now then I did in the first 6 months. I’ve started wanting answers to questions that I buried and told myself were not important. When I get those answers they just tear at me, so I’ve again stopped asking. I’ve had a re-fixation on the OM and in my mind his “got off Scott free” part in the whole mess. I never told OMW, threatened it in hopes he would confess to her, he may have? But I never followed up to be sure. Again I’m faced with do I really want to go back there? I mean how do call someone and say your H had an A with my W 2 years ago and I’m just now getting around to telling you.<p>RMADo ensure that your expectations of your relationship with your W are realistic and attainable.
I hoping to really have a chance to evaluate that during this break. I hear you about taking care of me. I want to do just that but honestly I forget how. I know that sounds really really out there, but it’s true, somehow I’ve lost who I am in this whole mess, I was once so independent and self confident and happy. I know that came from me and has to again. It’s just difficult to remember what made me that way.

RMA I am keeping you in my prayers. Give your troubles to God, CV. Start praying for personal peace and happiness tonight. In time, these things will come to you.

Thank you for the prayer and hope,
It’s funny we’ve never met, I’ve been around here a while also but like I said never came to this board. So hello I’m oswald, and it’s nice to talk with you.<p>[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: oswald ]</p>

oswald,<p>I had a feeling "confusedVet" was you...but I wasn't sure.<p>I guess things are still not that good? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As you know, I struggle a lot with these same issues too - the OM got away with it...I never allowed myself to deal with these emotions...resentment creeping in all the time. <p>It sucks! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What helped me a little bit was to see a therapist...someone who could help get it all out of me. This person wasn't a marriage counselor, but a psychiatrist. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I don't know, maybe it's something you can consider if you haven't already?<p>Your wife wants to go back to the way your marriage was before the A, even though that's what created all the trouble to begin with? What does she truly want? Is she happy with the way things are? Does she care at all about your happiness? Do you care about her's? What needs of yours is she still not meeting? Is it something you are able to define? <p>I wish I had some good advice for you. I never post on this board, but I'm sure some of the others can help you along (I've seen some pretty good insight already). <p>You've been trying really hard for a long time (we both have), and I commend you for trying to work through and recover from an extremely painful experience. When your Love Bank reaches "zero" I guess that's when some choices have to be made. <p>Keeping you in my prayers. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-HD

Oswald,<p>Yes, we have not yet met on these boards. There are just so many people, it would be impossible to keep up with all the situations. I generally choose try to keep up with a couple of folks, in those situations where I think I might have something of value to add.<p>I like Hurting Deeply's suggestion - maybe a therapist would be good for you right now. I went to therapy weekly for one year. It didn't change my situation, but it did help me to manage my situation, go through the cycles of grief and come out of the entire mess with some realistic expectations of what might and might not happen.<p>You are in a particularly bad spot - in need of venting, working through and then purging all those pent up feelings and emotions that have been simmering below the surface. I agree that it would likely damage your fragile relationship with your W to do all of this in front of her. That is why a therapist or counselor can be so beneficial. They can provide the safe place for you to work through these emotions. And, of course, you have all of your friends here to help, too. <p>You might also consider buying "The Language of Letting Go" by Melanie Beatty. I think think that is the correct title. I moved, so my copy is still packed or I would go and see for sure. These are daily little devotionals that remind us to treat ourselves with love and respect and also that we are only responsible for our own actions.<p>We as individuals can do a lot to make our marriage outstanding in many respects. Yet, none of us can do it all alone, without the help of our spouses, Oswald. You have done so very much, and I still say it is time for you to spend some of that energy and time on things for YOU. Tell yourself that obsessing about the OM is just robbing yourself of the time and energy YOU need for yourself right now. Use a counselor and this forum to help you heal, friend. <p>This is just another rough patch for you. Remind yourself of this most important fact: YOU are in control right now. You can take the steps to help strengthen yourself mentally, physically and emotionally. When you are better healed, you can decide if you want to continue to be married to your W or not. You are in control of your life, oswald. Make the MOST of it. Each and every person deserves happiness. Go and seek yours. Work though the issues and resolve to live a happier and more fulfilling life. You have to dream it and visualize it first, and in time, it will come to you.<p>Take care, Desiree

confused vet<p>I understand what you mean about the desire to the the other spouse know. My H had the affair and I was told by the OH. Now I am more than 90% sure that the OH does't know about the continued contact, I am some interesting reliable sources and when I need information it is also provided and always points to the OW LIES!!!!! <p>What is the stuggle is what is the "right thing to do" I don't know either. I go back and forth on this one, I seeing a Christian MC and we are working through much of this. I read a really interesting book "Living a Life that Matters" can't think of the author's name, but he also wrote "When good things happen to bad people." This book is really good and may help you with some of the issues we face as BS's!

Just read Desiree's post. The book she suggested is absoultely wonderful! A close friend gave me a copy and it was and still is a giant help!!! A good reminder for me also, haven't picked that one up in awhile! A wonderful suggestion than you Desiree!!!!!

HDI had a feeling "confusedVet" was you...but I wasn't sure.<p>How the heck did you find me over here?<p>A shrink ? Yes I’ve considered it, but I suffer from that warped male perspective that I have too much pride and there’s a stigma associated with a shrink in my mind. Stupid I know, but at least I can be honest about that and the fact that I’m my own worst enemy. I will reconsider and give it more serious thought.<p>HDYour wife wants to go back to the way your marriage was before the A, even though that's what created all the trouble to begin with? What does she truly want? Is she happy with the way things are? Does she care at all about your happiness? Do you care about her's? What needs of yours is she still not meeting? Is it something you are able to define? <p>EEk, that’s a lot of questions to answer briefly.
What does she truly want? My W has it firmly planted in her head that our M was wonderful pre A with the exception of a poor relationship between my stepson and me. Very poor, we have always been at odds, add that to the fact that he planned to move to his father’s house and she has her sole excuse/reason for the A. She blamed me. I agree it was a big part but not the entire cause. Since I have worked to improve the relationship and or at least detach from the situations with my stepson that caused stress she feels as if all is better and the M would be back to wonderful if I could just let go of the A.<p>Yes she is happy with the way things are. With the obvious exception of my recovery, or lack there of. Does she care about my happiness? You know I never asked it quite that way, but I think, yes she is. It just always goes back to the easy way out for her, it’s over, here was the one reason it happened and that is now fixed so lets get back to the old way of life. She has never felt any of the MB principals would bring happiness. Do I care about hers? Much more in early recovery but yes I do, I still try to follow the rules and meet her needs, I have changed quite a bit in these areas over the past 2 years. However, since I started stepping back and the depression creeped in I know I’m not as good at it.<p>What needs of yours is she still not meeting? Is it something you are able to define?
Yes your easiest question so far. I’m a guy so SF is up there on the list, and has never been enough for me. W is a once a week kind of person, I’m not. But just the rule of Time would be nice. In the old M we did our own thing, we were independent, very independent from one another. I not secure in that any longer and she doesn’t want to bend. She is busy, work, school, kids the house everything else comes first. I feel like an after thought and have discussed it with her to no avail. <p>Please don’t recommend I help out with some things to free up some of her time. I’ve been down that road. DS was identified early on as one of her needs so I did jump in. I clean, I share very actively in childcare, have volunteered to do the grocery shopping, the wash, you name it. It does free up some time for her but she invests it something other than me and then thanks me for giving her the opportunity to get to whatever. That drives me nuts…<p>But here’s a news flash, W came home from work 2 days ago and announced she has been listening to Harley’s HN/HN jump-start tape. She wants to start a little at a time but agrees with the POJA and while she doesn’t think 15hrs a week is possible she wants us to have a weekly dinner date night. Of coarse last night she told me about the new $600/yr cell phone plan she signed up for (after the fact) so much for that POJA. I guess were off to a slow start. And am I supposed to happy now that I get to buy her dinner once a week. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Actually I am a bit pleasently surprised that she made the initiative. We’ll see if it takes. <p>Having said ALL of this I’m not focusing on that any longer. I’m trying to travel a new road. I can surly see that I have placed my happiness at her mercy and it’s not only unfair it’s unrealistic. <p>Desiree,
I just ordered “The Language of Letting Go” and “Finding Your Way Home” both by Melody Beattie. My book collection so far has centered on recovering a M not recovering me. I know it’s not a psychiatrist, but it’s a start and something very new to me.<p>You are in control of your life, oswald. Make the MOST of it. Each and every person deserves happiness. Go and seek yours. Work though the issues and resolve to live a happier and more fulfilling life. You have to dream it and visualize it first, and in time, it will come to you.
You say that with such enthusiasm it sounds easy! Thanks for making it sound easy.<p>oh so confused,
Well you picked up the book, how’d that go? <p>
I’m glad I posted over here, even though I don’t know if this fits here, it is nice to get a different perspective on the world.<p>Sorry this was so long.<p>[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: oswald ]</p>

oswald,<p>About the book "Loving and Letting Go" I really liked it, keep in mind it is written for a person who lives with an alcoholic. This book was given to me by a very close mentor friend. She suggested reading it and when you see alcohol, substitute affair. In reality this are very similar situations, dealing with addiction, etc. Right after DDay one year ago, this was a lifeline book for me. In the back is an index to help you with your feelings of that day and will give you guidance to deal with that particular feeling. Since I am so new to this site, etc I don't know you that well, but I have a feeling it will help. I am reading mine again tonight, I have so many pages dog-earned for quick help!<p>About the other thing you had mentioned about telling the OH. Well, I went to MC today and we talked about my questions regarding that. I have said that there has been on/off contact with WS and OW basically they took PA to an EA. Well, we are in the process of relocating and H told OW that when they talked last. Put OW in a panic and she showed up at my house with a FALSE story! H didn't want to see her, that is a good thing I know. So I went out to see her and told her that etc. To make a long story short, when told MC about this he really stressed the scariness of that situation and oh my! Talked to H, H doesn't want to hold OW accountable for her actions, so today I asked about telling OH. He said I had first hand knowledge of something that OH should know, so in the process of trying to reach OH. Don't know if I can, using a mutal friend to rely message that I need to speak with OH and leave it in OH lap if OH wants to contact me. This is so messy, OW was a neighboor and worked really hard to become a close friend of mine during the A!!! The emotions that were stirred up recently are very, very powerful. That's why I took a break from plan A,(with the MC suggestion)(side note MC loves SA book) why I am tring to figure out plan B and am here to gain insight and wisdom from people who have been down this road.<p>Sorry this is so long, I am so new to this and at times shock is still so much a part of me. I have two young children that play a huge part in decision making, so all the info I can process is good for me.<p>Let me know what you think of the book, and TAKE CARE OF YOU!!!!

oswald<p>I re-read my post and wanted to add, about the depression you are feeling, I feel that also, esp when am not actively doing plan A. But something MC said is helping. You can be kind, but you don't have to be nice. My take on that is you can do plan A, avoid LB's, but the nice part for me was looking for ways to boost H. I am still doing plan A in reality but not going to then lengths I was. That is hard, it gave me something to do, something else to focus on and I think I understand where you mightbe coming from there. <p>I appreciated your advice with a time limit for plan A, working on that, considering plan B is very scary, I am a stay-at-home mom and that complicates things for sure!! Please excuse the ramblings, after counseling I always feel funky, but I wouldn't give up counseling for the world, it has helped me grow so much.<p>About the contact with OH, I don't want you to think I even begin to know what to do with that. I only know what I need to do and that is not completely in my hands either. Letting the OH know I need to talk with him allows him to make that decision and that is a comfort to me. Confronting an angry OH with proof of his W's antics is not one I relish, even though the OH told me of the affair between my H and OW (his w). I know the pain that caused and don't want to spread pain to make me feel better!<p>Sometimes growth really hurts and taking the high road seems like the place to not be. I have faith in God and I truly believe that He knows what is best for us and He does walk with us when we don't even know it!

oswald,<p>You have been given some good things to think about by both Hurting Deeply and oh so confused. <p>I am so happy that you ordered thoise books. "oh" is correct that they were written for spouses' of alcoholics. But, you know, the Harley's liken the WS to an addict, so it is truly fitting.<p>One of the things that needs more discussion and exploring here is centered around self-care, self-healing and self-nuturing. It is the natural progression, to me, that the BS is going to have a mini-collapse at some point in the process. I agree it is akin to PTSD. I 100% concur. My counselor also agreed. This is particularly true for folks like me who had no inkling whatsoever that anything was amiss with my mate. The shock of it all just adds to the trauma and the stress of infidelity.<p>Don't think of yourself as needing a "shrink". I looked to my counselor as a friend - one I did not have to worry about burning out or turning off with my need to vent, obsess and grieve. Coming here is great, but there is nothing as wonderful as having one entire hour a week to yak about the same old hurts and disabelief and concerns. Also helps to get an unbiased opinion to help you with your thinking, not to mention help with coping strategies.<p>I am positive and enthusiastic because these feelings are truly in my heart, oswald. I ended up D, but my life is not over by a long shot. I wished fervently for my marriage to be saved, but it just didn't happen. I was crushed, devastated, etc., but I DID SURVIVE and DO THRIVE. I truly did come to see myself in a role different from that of "victim". I accepted that which I could not change - H's attitude toward fidelity and our marriage - and resolved to live a happy and fulfilling life DESPITE all I had been through. <p>I don't expect you to be there, oswald. Concentrate right now on self-healing. It is more important than anything right now. You can't be a great mate unless you feel great about you and how things have played out. Concentrate on regaining your sense of self, so that you may pave the way for happier times ahead.<p>Think about making that appointment with the counselor/friend, OK??<p>Take care, Desiree

Oswald,<p>I hear ya. You know I had those same thoughts about a shrink too until the day came that I was pissing my pants and forgetting who I was. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (Just kidding).<p>Actually, a very wise poster on this site once told me that it takes a great deal of courage to admit that you need help. She also went on to say that there’s no shame in it. When I made that first appointment I was scared, but those sessions really, really helped me. I had so much anger and resentment built up into me that I was never going to personally heal until I dealt with it. Regardless of what would have happened with my marriage, I would have been doomed to carry this baggage with me into any future relationships anyway. I don’t think you want that. I didn't.<p>I think your wife is really showing some progress...popping that tape in is a huge step! You’re just going to have to decide whether or not you have the patience to work with this. It’s like a really big business deal – you sometimes have to work on it for years before it’s finally closed, and along the way is a lot of little steps.<p>Your wife may think that the sole reason for her having the A is the stepson, and you know what? She’s right! Why is she right? Because that’s what she thinks. You always have to remember that you can’t change your spouse or “educate” them no matter how much you try. Just work within the parameters that you are given. If she is truly happy with what you are doing than what you are doing is right. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>That said, she obviously is not doing the things you would like. There is the fundamental problem and one that I’m not even qualified to explore (I’m sure Steve might be of some help... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ). You’re not getting your needs met the way you would like, and if she’s aware of that and unwilling to do it then there is a problem that needs to be overcome (i.e – POJA or divorce). You said you never really asked that question. Maybe it should be discussed without the context of the A. Maybe something like "...this has nothing to do with what happened, but I’m not feeling fulfilled in this relationship and this is why..." (I would definitely recommend getting an expert, like Steve, to help you with how to approach this).<p>I think your marriage still has great potential...but you have to be willing to want it. No one would blame you if you didn’t – I mean you have gone through the most painful thing a spouse could do to you – but it’s really your choice.<p>Regardless, make that appointment with the psychiatrist. I’m glad to see you ordered those books recommened by Desiree too. You need to heal, and you will be miserable with or without this marriage if you don’t do it. You don't want to have any more regrets.<p>Take care, my friend. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>-HD

oswald,<p>OK, now you have me and Hurting Deeply telling you to get into counseling for YOU. Please post back and let us know that made the appointment, OK??<p>Desiree

oswald,<p>BUMP. Did you make an appointment, yet? Desiree

Bumping up