Is there anyone here that only uses natural means of birth regulation for religious reasons?<p>That does not, based on their conscience and beliefs, use any artificial methods of birth control.<p> I would like to hear a man's perspective who is self-disciplined in following any modern method of Natural Family Planning in marriage.<p>I am happy following my conscience in this matter. <p>I would feel alot better in this world if I could find a man or two that expresses a Christ-like mature respect for the integration of physical, sexual, self-giving love of the wife as a person ALONG with her power of fertility to co-create new life; as opposed to reducing her to an "always-on-tap" available sterilized sex-object to use to fulfill his sexual appetite ("sexual needs and physical attractiveness").<p>I like to view sexuality as a life-giving Eucharistic wine to be revered with awesome value, not as a frothy brewsky on tap to loosen my goose at the Drunken Pub.<p>Sex has meaning. Sex has purpose. Who believes sex means both love and life?<p>[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: Voice of Reason ]</p>

<p>[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: justthewife ]</p>

Absolutely, I agree that sex is not just for procreation. What a drag that would be... <p>The woman is only capable of conceiving when her egg is released. Adding up both the husband and wife's mutual fertility (sperm lifespan plus egg lifespan) pregnancy occurs only about one third of the days of her monthly cycle...Her fertile time-- Phase II. That means the other two-third of the days are infertile, not procreative...<p>1/3 fertile + 2/3 infertile= one whole month of unitive sexual love-bonding open to new life.<p>Or, just make passionate love on the 2/3 infertile days, if baby not a good idea right now.<p>God's natural design! I'm not going to knock it... Must mean something?<p>I'll make you a deal... I'll read your book suggestion (Title?, by Fr. A. Greeley) if you read mine... This is the most mind-boggling book I ever read, by a very obscure author... You may never be the same after fathoming this one...OK?<p>Read: The Theology of the Body: Human Love in the Divine Plan, by Pope John Paul II.

I certainly respect other's beliefs and in natural family planning works. I think the problem is that some women don't have a text book cycle and therefore, NFP can be tricky. <p>Personally, I am leary taking advice on the sexual self from someone who has never participated; Pope Paul II. I have no doubt the book is good; I'm just a doubting Thomas.

The whole fertile days/ non fertile days thing would work a hell of a lot better if A) the female body was like a machine and was reliable. It's not and unregulated hormones fluctuate and menstration/ovulation is by no means regular even if it appears so. B) Sperm didn't have the capacity to live for 72+ inside the vagina. They're tenacious little buggers.<p> NFP is a great way to get pregnant, not such a great way to stay not so.<p>[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: Nduli2 ]</p>

<p>[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: justthewife ]</p>

Man's perspective? Ok, here goes, near as I can remember (thinker can clarify if necessary). I was never very big on BC pills etc (we are 51 now), just leary of the whole chemical thing. As it turns out BC was not good for wife either, so NFP it was. In 10 years we had 4 children (first 9 months after marriage, she was a disneyworld baby) and 1 miscarriage, so not sure how effective it was, but mostly didn't really worry about it too much. As fare as "doing" it, I don't see why any man have a problem with abstinence at the appropriate times, in fact I have pretty much zero respect for any male that thinks they have to have regular on-demand sex, and would be inclined to suggest divorceing em anyways...but I digress. The notion that men are just kinda animalistic and have to have intercourse 3 or more times a week is..... I dunno, offensive, but not in a mad way....really just kinda nonsense. Any man who doesn't want to participate in this kind of planning is just plain screwed up I would think, and has other issues masqueradeing as this one.

&#8220;&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;I would like to hear a man's perspective who is self-disciplined in following any modern method of Natural Family Planning&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;&#8221;<p>That&#8217;s me alright, at least if you count abstinence as a Natural Family Planning method. Though I&#8217;m not married I&#8217;m practicing the Christian Natural Family Plan so that one day I can have wine instead of beer.

I'm really interested in hearing a man voice respect for the wife's fecundity as integral to their marital sexual lovemaking.<p>In other words, I think if men got pregnant, they would instantly quit growling for sex-on-demand! Boy, would I just LOVE to be the un-fecund one in the sexual embrace--- I'd be hootin' and hollerin' for daily sex, too. (No, not really ...that would be so inconsiderate of hubby's fear of pregnancy.)<p>Come on men... How would you feel if every time you hopped in the sack you feared you could end up with nine months of:
nausea,
vomiting,
shortness of breath,
massive weight gain,
headaches,
hemorrhoids,
varicose veins,
aching breasts,
lower back pain,
severe fatigue,
leg cramps,
edema fluid,
frequent urination,
crampy uterus,
sleeplessness due to kicking,
overall discomfort,
loss of body image,
inablility to run or bend over,
and general weak vulnerability?<p>OR, in high-risk:
ectopic,
pre-eclampsia,
toxemia,
placenta previa,
clotting embolism,
premature delivery,
mutiple births,
death?

And that is just BEFORE the critter hatches!<p>Not to mention the labor pains, blood loss, tearing flesh, surgical stress, bladder catheter, pueperal infection,......must I continue?<p>Not even NFL pro-football warriors get banged-up that much! Maybe that's why they call pregnancy "banged-up" or "knocked-up"; like an assault & battery!<p> Face it-- sex for women has personal fearful repercussions--- Quit blaming us for being slightly hesitant to treat sex like a meaningless, exciting game of football. <p>To add insult to injury, there's WH who isn't even mature and unselfish enough to cherish the miracle of the wife and new baby, but sneaks off for illicit sterilized sex while the post-partum recovering wife bears the rejection alone with her helpless suckling at the breast.<p>These Men are Pigs! Where are the Mature Human Men? Are men just smart animals or are they human persons? Where are the sexually self-disciplined husbands and fathers? I need to hear them out.
______<p>P.S. Please be aware that MODERN methods of Naural Family Planning are 99% effective at avoiding pregnancy, rivaling the effectiveness rates of the Pill.<p>Modern methods include:<p>1. Sympto-thermal Method (STM)
2. Ovulation Method (OM)
3. Lactational Amenorrhea (LAM), or Ecological Breastfeeding
4. Basal Temperature-Only Method<p>Rhythm is not a Modern NFP method and hasn't been taught in two generations. Modern NFP is not rhythm.<p>Happy Mac & Nduli2 ,<p> I am confused about your assumption that NFP relies on a regular menstrual cycle. That NFP relies on a "textbook cycle", or the female body to be "a machine", or be "reliable".<p>Exactly which ineffective modern method of NFP are you referring to here...? Please refer me to the title of the book or manual or statistical review article or organization that teaches this failed mehod?<p>Modern methods of NFP such as the sympto-thermal and ovulation method are not calendar-based at all... they are symptom-based... they rely on the actual observable signs of the individual wife's fertility such as mucus, temperature, and cervix.<p> Irregular cycles are irrelevant to symptom-based STM or OM. The effectiveness rates ore still 99% regardless of cycle length or irregularity.<p>The STM and OM are about 99% effective for any motivated couple, regardless of cycle irregularity.<p>Are you equating modern NFP with the old rhythm? Are there ineffective NFP methods being taught today that require regular cycles? Let me know, so I can clear up this confusion.<p>STM worked perfectly for me all the years I used it. Each pregnancy was planned and wanted... no surprises. And my fertility is still intact! I can have MORE! Whew, another baby in my forties? No! stop, No! It's all a bad dream! I keep forgetting, I'm being dumped by WH...

JTW,<p>I hope it would not be too personal to ask the name of the NFP method was ineffective for you? So we can avoid that one! Your two kids would cringe at this dialogue--- no offense to them!<p>P.S. I beg to differ about the sexual nature of the celibate religious. They DO participate in human sexuality just like the rest of us married vocations. Only their sexuality-in-common with marrieds has been given to God as a gift in the form of chastity, by ordering their sexual energy to Jesus for the sake of the kingdom. <p>JPII's sexuality is not inexperienced, he actually has to control his sexual appetite harder than we do... no hope for physical relief! And who knows what he was up to before becoming a priest... he's not perfect, just pope.<p>The Theology of the Body does not give advice on the sexual self from someone who has never participated. It stays within the bounds of God's scriptural meaning and purpose for our human sexual love... an appropriate scope for a spirit-filled biblical scholar and philosoper.<p>[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: Voice of Reason ]</p>

<p>[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: justthewife ]</p>

My stbx and I first used NFP when we were trying to conceive. A couple of mornings, I'd wake up early, take my shower and begin to get ready for work, and she'd wake up, take her temperature, and say "you'd better plan on showering again, mister..." It was kinda fun that way.<p>(I can still remember the shocked look on the face of the NFP counselor (we actually went to some classes) who looked at our charts and saw that we marked down nightly, well, "events," during her fertile days. She choked out "you are using this for conception, not contraception, aren't you?")<p>We later used it for contraception, and it was ok because our sex life was good, but sex was not an every night event, and because I've never understood the "sex-on-demand" attitude. I mean, what fun is it with someone who's just along for the ride? So when she was fertile and we didn't want to risk it, it was easy to abstain, or use condoms, or to have fun in other ways.<p>I'm Catholic, but dissent (like about 80% of us) from the Church's teaching on contraception. However, birth control pills give me the willies- I'd never take a male version of something that screwed with your hormones so completely, so I certainly couldn't expect a partner to do so. The STBX isn't a Christian, but the "natural" element especially appealed to her. <p>She later went back on the Pill (to regulate other difficulties) after our second child was born. Frankly, I never felt that diminished my respect for "sex as love and life" - because I didn't look at her as a "always-on-tap available sterilized sex-object" in the first place.

VOR (which i don't particularly think you are!)
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>In other words, I think if men got pregnant, they would instantly quit growling for sex-on-demand! Boy, would I just LOVE to be the un-fecund one in the sexual embrace--- I'd be hootin' and hollerin' for daily sex, too. (No, not really ...that would be so inconsiderate of hubby's fear of pregnancy.)<p>Come on men... How would you feel if every time you hopped in the sack you feared you could end up with nine months of:
nausea,
...
death?<p>And that is just BEFORE the critter hatches!<p><hr></blockquote><p>First, i find your hypothetical, generalized assumption of men demeaning, and rather arrogant that because men and women are different, that you assume an outcome where the W is far superior just because of a difference.<p>That attitude reeks of one sided superiority. . . and yes, my X used to put men down all the time like that. . . and that attitude gets quite tiring, never mind conceited. . .<p>we were at a kid amusement park one day, and met one of my coworkers and his family, so i introduced my X and my kids, and talked to the H, and my X talked to the W. After we were done, i asked how did you like W and what did you two talk about? X said, we had a nice time, we discussed how H's are selfish and goal oriented to the exclusion of the family. . .<p>well, i was irritated, but if i would have said anything, she would just go about justifying her opinion as the truth. <p> in the end, putting others down to make yourself feel better is merely a cheating way to boost your ego. . . it lasts as long as anyone else will listen to you, and after while, will get pretty old and positive people don't particularly like whiners and negos to hang out with. .. .<p>and yes, my kids live with their selfish mom, and are rapidly getting quite a selfish, self centered attitude about life in general. . .<p>wiftty

Dear Lost Husband and SNL,<p>I just love you guys! You just made my day!<p>I am actually happy and relieved to hear your positive views! I can't tell you how HEALING it is for me to see in print two men who are actually willing to moderate their sex drive.<p>Please, please, share more about your attitude...<p>I am sitting here right now nursing our precious fifth baby, a sweet daughter, at my fortysomething saggy breasts.... and still suffering the painful memories of my WH's angry voice yelling at me demanding sex. Accusing me of withholding sex, controlling him by rejecting him when he demanded sex twice a day, or once a day, or at LEAST every other day...<p>When I was two months post-partum, I refused to submit to another high-risk pregnancy in my forties. He said that his sexual pressure had to be relieved frequently or else I was HARMING our marriage... That refusing him was DANGEROUS to our marriage... <p>He said his sexual pressure built up every 24 hours to the point that he NEEDED sex! I asked him to explain this "pressure"... He said it started as a genital urge, and then it was an overwhelming constant mental pressure for sex. <p> He demanded I relieve this pressure, in spite of the risk of pregnancy, which he downplayed. He refused to use any birth control, and tried to coerce me into sex when I was fertile. We used NFP, but when he became abusive, he refused to abstain during my fertile days. <p> Sex became his most oppressive arena. Our counselor did not tell us this was abusive, so I thought this male imperative was true... He made me feel so guilty, and defective for being unable to meet his needs for sex. <p>So, he "went hunting" and got "entitled" sex elsewhere in addition to me. But sex with me eventually became so angry, punitive, and humiliating, he wouldn't even look at me, he would laugh at me and put me down when I showed pleasure. I am glad it is over, who knows who he is degrading now?<p>He didn't want love or life. He wanted a sex slave to dominate.<p>I enjoyed love-making immensely. Baseline twice a week, more when seeking pregnancies, once a week with babycare at hand... almost none during high-risk third-trimester, post-partum recovery, or breastfeeding infertility-fertility transition... He slammed my sexuality into the ground...Lied and said I hardly ever wanted it... <p> I don't see anything withholding or controlling in my sexual desire. Now I know that he is a sex addict. <p>I need to know how considerate husbands feel...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Voice of Reason:
<strong>I can't tell you how HEALING it is for me to see in print two men who are actually willing to moderate their sex drive.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>MODERATE [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] heck, I've totally given it up. Is their a time when you become classified as a born again virgin? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>OK, kidding aside. Physical intamacy is so much more than just a primative act. To do anything more than just release sperm you have to have all of the emotional ties in place. I guess it's the difference between sex and making love.<p>Personnally, I would much rather make love once a month than have sex twice a day. A full romantic day filled with conversation, holding each other, childish eye gazing all leading up to a joyous uniting of two souls. <p>I'm sorry I lost myself for a moment, what were we talking about... Ohhhh.. that's right. <p>Your hubby truly was or is a sick person but unfortunately there are a lot of people out there just like him and they are not all men.<p>As for myself, I do miss romance and passion but I will not lower my standards, morals, or beliefs for an empty moment of pleasure.

Well, SNL, you don't have it quite right. I was on BC pills, as a single person. For regulating my periods. They did work out quite well. Just took them for about 6 months. Then we got married and decided to not use any method. Got pregnant and had 4 children all together, and 1 miscarriage. Recently I was on BC pills for hormone levels, hot flashes, and etc. Took them for about 1 year.<p>The one thing you forgot to tell them SNL is that 6 months after our last child was born, I had a tubiligation done. SNL and I fought about this over and over, cause I wanted him to have it done, it is a in office procedure, and mine was a major incision in the abdomen, under anesthesia. SNL wouldn't budge, and we didn't want any children, so I gave in because of SNL persistent manner of he doesn't want to be sterilized. <p>Sex, I feel is very important on SNL's EN. I have my reasons, and will conclude with that. SNL tells me all the time men are made to procreate, and men did it from behind because they wanted to watch for predators will doing their thing. Men are made to procreate from their DNA, and it is a force that is quite strong in men, per SNL.<p>We sort of used natural safe sex protection, but not very much. Cause I was trying to get pregnant again, and the second child took us quite a while to get pregnant. The third one didn't take long at all, and then I had a miscarriage after that one, and then the fourth we tried for.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong>
First, i find your hypothetical, generalized assumption of men demeaning, and rather arrogant that because men and women are different, that you assume an outcome where the W is far superior just because of a difference.<p>That attitude reeks of one sided superiority. . . and yes, my X used to put men down all the time like that. . . and that attitude gets quite tiring, never mind conceited. . .<p> in the end, putting others down to make yourself feel better is merely a cheating way to boost your ego. . . it lasts as long as anyone else will listen to you, and after while, will get pretty old and positive people don't particularly like whiners and negos to hang out with. .. .
wiftty</strong><hr></blockquote><p>__________<p>Wiffty,<p>Whew! Mea culpa! Didn't mean to strike a raw nerve. I am sorry, please forgive me. Ok, you learn most from your mistakes and I have made more than most!<p>My caddy attempt at raising an appreciation for the wife's fertile sexual experience sure came across as male-bashing in the first degree.<p>I am still stuck in a defensive rut... Indignant Snarly Strike-back mode of wife buried under Scorched-Earth Policy Kruschev WH.<p>You can help me heal...file off my rough edges, so I can be soft and tender again.. Not irascible...<p>My motivation seems to me (I could be deceiving myself), not to boost my ego, but more to come back scratching and kicking just to restore my battered ego to normality.<p>I had come to a crazy place with WH where I accepted his sick spin on reality... that it was normal... so my ego was destroyed. If I now whine and ventilate and compare the negative crap he parked in my mind, maybe I can get an attitude re-alignment, like a major assumption overhaul. <p>Let me try now, after your tune-up... I'll go back looking for the edit... Hmmm, remove the demeaning, arrogant, superior, tiring, conceited, irritating, selfish, generalized attitude and put-downs about men ... <p>Gosh, not much left...! I am a hopeless b*tch! Too much baggage from this almost final divorce... Will I need to hire a baggage handler coach for the rest of my life? How much do you charge?

May I say a few words in favor of balance, please?<p>The description of a "genital urge" building every 24-48 hours or so, followed by intrusive sexual thoughts and imagery if the urge is not somehow satisfied, is something to which I can relate quite easily. I believe that this is a fairly normal male sex drive, and while we all can choose how we deal with it, it is not helpful to pretend that the sex drive itself doesn't exist.<p>For the record, in the best years of my marriage the frequency of any orgasmic-level mutual sexual activity was about once every six weeks. The frequency of activity that involved any risk of pregnancy was probably closer to once every six years.<p>So the idea that it is unduly burdensome to restrict intercourse to three weeks, or one week, or even one day in a cycle is laughable to me.<p>But let's not forget that in some contexts, withholding sex is classified as sexual abuse.

Lost Husband<p> You crack me up! Thanks for joking around about this to lighten the mood! I feel so much better hearing your loving attitude; are you for real? I need to pinch myself, I'm getting giddy ... Can't wait to tell my single girl friends I located a lost born-again virgin husband on the web who practices Christian Natural Family Planning and likes FINE WINE! Do you date?<p> May I copy your last romantic post and send it to my WH? Maybe he will change his mind, and want love-making more than pressure-release sex... No, I keep forgetting, the marriage is over, I must move on...<p>SNL and thinker: You two exhibit the classic love triangle, but with the most bizarre twist:
1. Him
2. Everyone Online at MB's
3. Her
Thanks for the input.<p>Gnome<p>Good, you confirmed the normal male sex drive "pressure" and intrusive mind images Q 24-48 hours WH kept talking about. Is this really how it is for you guys? Please explain this phenomena more-- maybe us ignorant women will be more understanding of it. <p>Similar strong sex urge/images happens to me mid-cycle Phase II, and lasts off and on for maybe a week. Also, a few other days near the end of Phase I, and near end of Phase III, but not as strong. It corresponds to normal fluctuating estrogen hormone surges on the chart.<p>But sex relations only every six weeks? Was that your choice? Now I don't feel so guilty anymore about once a week. He acted like I was a cold and distant meanie for not chompin' at the bit for sex every other day!<p>You are scary when you say that withholding sex can be sexual abuse. I never, not once, withheld sex to punish or abuse H. I protected my health and life against harm. A woman exercising her reproductive choice of self-determination. Sometimes I delayed til the next available day/time, if I already had plans, too tired, etc. <p>When does withholding sex become sexual abuse?

Do you mean sexual abuse is when a non-fertile woman refuses sex? <p>Or do you mean a fertile child-bearing woman saying no?<p>Is it an abusive pattern of refusal? Or using sex as punishment?<p>Is it sexual abuse for a fertile woman to refuse sex even when the risk of pregnancy is acceptable to her?<p>Is it sexual abuse for a fertile woman to refuse sex for reasons that aren't agreeable or important enough in H's mind? Is it within H's rights to claim abusive sexual withholding if he disapproves of her reasons for refusal?<p>Does the fertile woman need a better reason other than the personal choice made in her own conscience to avoid pregnancy this time?<p>I am fertile...After 5 high-risk pregnancies, I now have very serious health reasons to avoid pregnancy. Both H & I use no contraception according to the standards of our religion.... Each and every act of sex means I ALWAYS am at risk for a resultant pregnancy. I believe in a woman's reproductive right of choice. I have a right to choose to allow sex/pregnancy, or to not allow sex/pregnancy. My body bears the consequences, not H's.<p>Sexual abstaining only occurred during times of actual Phase II fertility. We HAD to abstain then. I really wanted so much to make love to him, because I was in love with him, and he seemed so desperate for release. I felt so bad and guilty and helpless that I couldn't help him relieve his sexual pressure.<p> My sexual desire MARKEDLY peaks during phase II each month, and it made me mad that I couldn't enjoy him then, because of the serious cross we carried of high-risk pregnancy. But I didn't want to be incapacitatied or die from another complicated pregnancy past age 40.<p> I didn't want the children we already had to LOSE their mother. I felt that I had/have a serious reason in the sight of God to abstain until Phase I or III infertility. WH disagreed. He would claim that I temporary withheld as sexual abuse after baby #5, but God sees into our hearts and knows my true reasons. My conscience is clear, I wish WH would stop blaming me for OB/GYN health problems that are entirely out of my control.<p> Heck, what's the use, he blames me for everything bad, anyway. I'm beating a dead horse, I need to move on... <p>He used to love me. Where did loving H go? I miss my husband... Stop it, I need to move forward...<p>R.I.P. (Rest in Peace; or Roller-coaster In Progress?)<p>[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: Voice of Reason ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Gosh, not much left...! I am a hopeless b*tch! Too much baggage from this almost final divorce... Will I need to hire a baggage handler coach for the rest of my life? How much do you charge? <hr></blockquote><p>no, you're not hopeless! GEEZ, just hurting and taking it out on all men, rather than one in particular. . . i suggest putting the blame squarely where it belongs, on the particular individual, and as long as you do that, the rest of the population can agree without feeling put down or included . . .<p>i agree, we all need to learn, and learn from our anger . . . lets just say, peace and reaspect between the sexes, and lets continue where we left off. . .

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by dabigtrain:
<strong>I've never understood the "sex-on-demand" attitude. I mean, what fun is it with someone who's just along for the ride? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>dabigtrain,<p>I never understood it either. WH wanted me to have "sex-on-demand", and he also wanted me to appear emotionally involved, too. He liked seeing me wildly excited for him. He always said he wanted to have sex with me so much because he wanted it for me... To see me sexually aroused, pleased, and "writhing in ecstasy."(his quote) Like he got fulfillment being able to make me squeal in delight! I really liked it, too.!<p>Sounds good, right? <p>But I didn't want or need or desire or have time for or could bear the vaginal friction of instant "writhing in ecstasy" sex twice a day, or every day! He wanted me to perform to his male ego. It wasn't for me at all. I wanted an emotional relationship, a real personal connection. He wanted an emotional performance from me. An X-fantasy, whether I wanted to or not.<p>It started to bug me how he would watch TV all night, shut off the news at 11:00pm, walk straight over to me after ignoring me all night, grip my hand coercively and say, "Let's go upstairs." He wanted quick exciting sex, no meaningful emotions, and then sleep.<p>I tried a million different ways of requesting respect for my relationship needs, but he subtly dismissed me outright. "Honey, I'd like to talk for awhile." Not now. "H, let's shut off the TV and talk a bit." Feel free, don't shut off the TV. "Hun, How was your day at work?" Shhh...I need quiet... Too much noise around here...<p>Ignored...Dismissed. I never even considered an affair. I made sure I got all my emotional needs met in other appropriate ways from appropriate people. Close friendhips, social life, work, exercise, hobbies, etc.<p>Eventally, all he personally wanted from me or gave me was domination sex. I didn't feel loved at all. <p> And he ALWAYS "forgot" that sex causes pregnancy for ME! After five awful pregnancies, I finally told him that there was no way on earth I could enjoy sex with him during my fertile time, knowing that I would be plowed down by a MACK TRUCK two weeks later, winding up in the hospital or on IV's for dehydration or sick as a dog at death's door. That was just for starters in the first trimester... All for 2 minutes of fertile whoopee? Sorry, it just wasn't worth it to me. He is a big boy--- He can wait till sex is safe for me.<p>"Hun, Let's wait for Phase III, I don't want to get pregnant."...You are harming the marriage.. I need it... I feel the pressure building...I am the leader of this family...Come on, you're over 40, what's the chance of you getting pregnant?<p>Regretting our planned pregnancy #5, he said he hadn't wanted the baby; he just wanted the sex. <p>Tell that to your daughter.<p>[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: Voice of Reason ]</p>