<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Roughneck: I am sorry that you are still in so much pain over your ex's betrayal. Please explain how you can feel so much love for someone who obviously doesn't give a hoot about your feelings. According to your bio she got caught cheating four times and then ran off with someone she met online. You mentioned you don't think you could treat her the way she deserves? How about you? Do you deserve a wife who cheats on you at every opportunity, who is less than truthful, who would throw a marriage away for someone she met on the internet, who would hurt her three children? How can you feel love for someone that selfish? I understand that often we tend to think of the person we thought we married. I don't think any one marries someone and plans on it failing....but, for your own peace of mind, you certainly deserve someone who will love you completely. Love should bring you happiness...not pain. Love doesn't send you running for medication because you are in such despair that you can't function. Love is not about lying and hurting your children. Perhaps your ex doesn't love or respect herself. Why is it that so many betrayed spouses feel that if they change...if they grovel, love will return? If love was ever there, sometimes it does. But so many times, the WS only does it time and time again with a host of OM or OW. How do you blame yourself when you did what you could? Your ex doesn't sound very nice. Chances are she will cheat with the new guy too. Is that what you want? A marriage would someone who thinks nothing of your feelings or your marriage? Stop mourning and get on with living your life. You deserve someone who will be there for you for no other reason than she loves you and you make her happy.[ <hr></blockquote>Happy Mac, <p>I didn't want us to continue in Jacky's thread.<p>Ok, you have got me thinking about the whole situation again.<p>In a lot of aspects you are absolutely correct.
First off I can't help but love her. She is the mother of my children. That is something very special to me and I will always love her for that. Other than that, it is hard to walk away from something that has always been there. I hope you understand what I mean. <p>You are right I believe that I do deserve better treatment than what I have gotten.
I also know that her path back to me is a very narrow one. (Tight rope) My divorce will be final in May and truthfully can't wait to get that part of my life behind me. <p>I also agree with you about love shouldn't hurt to the point that you have to stay doped up to keep from going insane. I want to love and I want to be loved. I don't think that you can love anyone if you aren't capable to love yourself. Loving your children or your parents and siblings don't count, you have to be able to love the opposite sex.
I do appreciate your concern about me, I really do, but I have given myself permission to grieve over this loss. I know deep down that divorce is the best thing for me and I am moving towards that as I write, it still doesn't change the way my heart yearns for her. I really feel that I have done everything in my power to save the marriage but there is no saving it now. Even if she didn't want the divorce, I would still proceed with it because I feel that is the right thing to do. <p>You are also correct about her. She doesn't respect herself and she doesn't like herself. Ask her! She will tell you the same thing. I have offered her help in many, many different ways but she has refused to take any of it.
So with that said, YOU CAN'T HELP SOMEONE THAT WON'T HELP THEIR SELF!<p>Yes, I am moving on but it still hurts to do so.<p>I do thank you for your heart-felt concern and I look forward to talking with you again. <p>
P.S. Do you have a link to your story, I am not familiar with it.

I first came to these boards back in the spring of 2000 as Lonelysoul. At that time, I was going through some very rough waters. Without dredging up the entire past...I was married 16 years to someone who was controlling, abusive, and in short, did not make me happy. I spent all my time trying to have a marriage by myself. Anyway, the last years of our marriage were not happy. My ex would not go places with me, or would he permit me to have friends or family over. He got angry with me for planning a vacation, and to spite me refused to do anything with me and the children once we got there. I spent a lot of time crying and feeling helpless. One afternoon I was playing around the computer and started talking with someone. No, I didn't have an affair...though I imagine you could call it an EA. In short, this man became my friend. I never met him or knew what he looked like. When my ex found out, he went ballistic. He took the hard drive out of the computer, closed all bank accounts, would not let me in the bedroom, took my journal, and called me every foul name you can imagine. Oh, and he called my family, his family, our children, and his boss and told them I was having an affair. How one can have an affair with someone they never met still makes me wonder. I asked him for a few weeks to get think about things...I also asked him to please get help, and then we could try marriage counseling. Well, he agreed to the two weeks, but came back after three days. What ensued after that was miserable. At the time, I didn't want a divorce...I wanted things to improve...but my ex's actions never were those of someone who loved or cared for anyone. We were separated for 6 months and living under the same roof...it was the worst time of my life. The counseling sessions were miserable. He would berate me and call me names...never letting me talk. One session was so miserable that the counselor called me at work and told me the best thing for me was to divorce him. In short my ex is a Narsisst...it was and always will be all about him. He would never listen to what he needed to do...it was only what I hadn't done. I bought the MB books...asked him to read them...he refused. It was my fault. Finally, the verbal and emotional abuse turned physical. One lovely summer evening, he stormed into my house, and tried to strangle me...in front of the kids no less. He told the kids he did it because he loved me...I drove him to it. <p>Anyway, my divorce was final in May. He tried to have me and the kids put out of our house before I had found a new place. He told me if I didn't have the restraining order removed he would...I chose to ignore him. Somehow, by the grace of God and being a strong person, I found a new job, bought a house and can take care of myself. Even though my ex clearly is not a nice person, I mourned the end of the marriage. I didn't want to be divorced, have my kids deal with my problem, face the horrific financial hardships that were down the road...but I couldn't live with someone who was capable of such selfish, uncaring, self-centered behavior. Nearly one year later, I look back and don't regret the divorce. My kids are hurting still...because my ex still tries to control me through them. If he knows I have plans, he will deliberitely cancel on the boys. He refuses to be part of their life unless they bend to his will. So, I am the one who takes the boys to counseling and goes to school, and run them here and there. Through all of this transitioning, I did meet someone special. I am happy...my new relationship never makes me sad or mad or unsure...it only brings a smile to my face. <p>There is no special formula that will make the pain go away. Even now, I still wake up in a cold sweat that I'm still married and am being thrown out of my house. Take care of yourself...be kind to yourself. If you are anything like me, you may think that somehow you did something and deserve the pain you have. You didn't do anything but give love to someone who didn't have the good sense to accept it. It is sad because she most likely will never find love. At least you know you are capable and you will find it again when you are ready. Give yourself time to mourn and figure out what it is you want. Don't settle for anything less than what you really want.<p>[ April 04, 2002: Message edited by: HappyMac ]</p>

Well, your story gave me a big lump in my throat! I am so sorry for what you have had to endure.
I am glad you have found someone that makes you happy.
I know that I will love again, I'm just not going to go looking for it. I thought that I would never love again until I met my WW. I had a relationship with my high school sweetheart and I done her wrong. I broke up with her to start seeing someone else. One of the worst mistakes of my life. I wouldn't give her the time of day for months and when the girl I was seeing dumped me I tried to go back but it was too late.
She told me that she loved me but would never give me the chance to hurt her again.
Something that I just couldn't understand until now. No matter how much I care for my WW I will never be able to go back to her. <p>I am feeling more and more comfortable every day with being a single dad. I have had more time with my children than I have in years. (Always trying to please the wife and spend time with her.) I have been real selfish lately too. I went out and bought a sports car, new clothes, out to dinners and riding the rubber off my motorcycle. I feel that I deserve this stuff. <p>About her, you are right, she will have a tough time finding love in her present state of mind. If the truth was known she would never had to leave the house. I was there! <p>I will tell you this though and I know that this is true. She will be very hard pressed to find another man like me. I was good to her, (even if she doesn't think so right now) When I was at home I took good care of my children and done stuff around home that some men would call "women's work". I took care of her when she had babies and when she had operations. I kept her in nice clothes and everything else she desired.
That is one of her problems, she can't remember that her first husband abused her mentally and physically, wouldn't work, and wanted to sell their child! The I come along after the divorce and treat her like a queen, adopt our child, give her everything that I could afford to get her.
She is spoiled rotten and everybody knows it. Her father talks to me about her all the time about how screwed up she has been for the last few years. (She has an infatuation with Elvis Presley and that is where she found A #2,3,4! in an Elvis Presley chat room.) She has a whole room in her house dedicated to him. Wall to wall, ceiling to floor. She always wanted me to feel the same about him as she did! Not! She damn near worships him! Goes to Memphis every year to Elvis week (Where the A's started) I would stay home with the children while she went. Damn, after writing all of this, I feel kind of stupid, but every bit of it is true. Hmmmmmm! The more I look at it the more I feel sorry for her. The poor girl has some major problems that I just can't solve. She will have to try to on her own. Because in a few months that is the way she will be Alone! <p>My lawyer is a real levelheaded person and he is not a big fire and brimstone, raise hell kind of guy. He just gets results. Here is what he had to tell me.
"Steve, your wife has no problems with doing all of this to you because she hasn't lost anything! The only difference is that you aren't coming home to her. You pay all of the bills, you give her 400 a week to buy household items, food and gas. She is living in the lap of luxury and has no repercussions. After the Adultery divorce she is going to change her mind big time. She is not going to have you to rely on anymore which is going to put more pressure on her and the OM. She has never had to work before and she doesn't want to. It is going to be a tough row to hoe for her after all of this and don't be surprised if she doesn't come slithering back to you asking you to forgive her and take her back. As a lawyer, you do what you want to do, as a friend you would be a moron if you took her back! Married or not, she can still hurt you, get away from her, the only thing you and her should have in common is the kids."<p>
I will heal at my own pace, have some fun along the way and maybe, just maybe, one day I will find the love of my life. But I would have to stumble and fall over her because I am not looking for anything! That is how I fell in love the last time.........<p>
Steve

I knew you sounded familiar and the story was familiar, but I couldn't place the old name. . . <p>the one part i did recognize is that you were married to an abusive whacko, you did MBTI and counseling. . . .<p>i hope your life and your kids turn out better. . . i know the feeling about having a spouse go whacko, although mine was just very manipulative and subtly emotionally abusive. . . <p>boy, do i have to fight that with my kids, anyway, good to read your type. . . .<p>wiftty

Just to remind you...I am an ENTP...thanks for remembering. I thought I was done with these boards...but sometimes, even now, I stumble and need to come back and vent. The one thing that has kept me going is to continually look ahead and try to improve things. I now know that there is nothing I can do or say that will change my ex or how he thinks. He still tries his hardest to control my life, but the difference now is that I refuse to listen to him...I just hang up. <p>Roughneck...Again...I am truly sorry for what you are going through. It's not fun. You are doing a lot of normal things...the car, the clothes. Have you grown a beard? No one likes to start over at this stage of the game, but in some ways it is very exciting. You did all you could. Marriage is a partnership not ownership. Your ex didn't fulfil her end of the bargain; not to you or her children. It sounds like she has her own demons...hopefully, one day she will resolve those things. I know how frustrating it is to try and help someone who refuses to be helped. Eventually, for self-preservation, you need to close the door and walk away. <p>Don't worry about the highschool sweetie. You were a kid...we all did stupid things. Hopefully, we change as we get older. You are supposed to make mistakes...and learn from them. Problems happen when you don't learn. Give yourself time to heal and figure out what you want and who you are right now. Sometimes when you are married a long time you lose your sense of self...it takes a bit to find it again, but you will.

HappyMac,<p>A beard? I am 31 yrs old and I couldn't grow a beard if I tried! Hehehe! <p>Yes, I hope that she can resolve her problems, not because of me but because of her and the children. That leads me to a question! Do you think this kind of behavior is maybe inherited?<p>What I mean is that her aunt has been married about five times, another aunt has been unfaithful with a few of her X husbands.
A cousin of hers is known for her bad reputation, she is 34 and been married 4 times.
Next is her dad. He is 52 and still acts like he is single and 21. I know that he is always running around on her mother, her mother knows it too but chooses not to say anything.
I have always wondered about the connection between her and all of her family skeletons.<p>About my high school sweetheart, everyone said that it was puppy love but I know better, I do know what love is and I had it bad with her. I know for a fact that I loved this girl. But when I see her today, I don't have any bad feelings. I am happy for her. She has a good husband and a boy that is the same age as my oldest girl. They even like each other. Very strange thing that is. <p>Sense of self! I will put it to you this way, about two months ago I was asked by a friend what "I" liked to do. You know that I couldn't answer that. I sit there with a stupid look on my face. That has been the thing that I have been concentrating on. Trying to find out who I am now. <p>
Thanks again for your kind words! Does my ego good!<p>Steve

Bump

I am not so sure behavior is inherrited. I believe it is more learned...so if your ex was raised in a family where fidelity wasn't common and divorce was common...well I would say that chances are your ex didn't have such terrific role models. <p>Often people don't take responsiblity on how their actions effect their kids...but it does. Of course, some folks don't care much either. My ex's father was verbally abusive to my mother in law...so much it used to send chills up my spine. Had I known what I know now...well, I would never have married him. When I heard my own children talk to me in that same disrespectful tone their father did...a warning bell went off. <p>I hope you had a good weekend and are feeling a little better. Going through a divorce is never easy. It does get better. I remember the day I was officially divorced...it was like the weight of the world was removed from my shoulders. The final decree didn't magically make all the pain and confusion go away...but I can say this, one year later and I am in a much better place thaat I had been in years and years. That sense of self I had lost...is back. You, too will find your self again and I bet you will be better than before.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I am not so sure behavior is inherrited. I believe it is more learned...so if your ex was raised in a family where fidelity wasn't common and divorce was common...well I would say that chances are your ex didn't have such terrific role models.
Often people don't take responsiblity on how their actions effect their kids...but it does. Of course, some folks don't care much either. My ex's father was verbally abusive to my mother in law...so much it used to send chills up my spine. Had I known what I know now...well, I would never have married him. When I heard my own children talk to me in that same disrespectful tone their father did...a warning bell went off. <p><hr></blockquote><p> DITTO!! word for word!! <p>what you don't know just might kill your relationship! "<p>wiftty