Keep doing a plan A. She is still in a Fog but it looks like it is starting to lift. She is starting to see the real side of the OM and also what she is risking. These are good signs. The only bad thing that I saw was your comments about being together. Yes, you want to save you marriage, but you need to be more honest with yourself and your wife. What you wrote, sound like you would wait for her forever, when in reality, you are having a hard time hanging on. She currently may think you are willing to wait for 1,2 up to 6 months or more to make a decision. She will then take her time knowing you are her safety net. Tell her the truth. This will have several positives. She will be impressed with your ability to open up to her and communicate, show that you are human and can only handle so much and it is the truth. It will help her think about what she is risking. Other positive things to talk about are about old vacations, your history together. Find some old pictures of some good memories together and have them lying out. Tell her you were cleaning something out and found them. Marriage counselors encourage this. This helps the WS remember the good time together and what they may be losing. <p>When it comes to the house, I would consult an attorney about it. I think you should have your WS sign something stating she wants no interest in it. You need to protect your self and not rely on her to do the right thing. She has broken your trust and you should not place yourself in a position yet where she can break your trust again. This will also show her that you are protecting yourself and that you will not be there forever to wait for her. <p>These are just some things to think about. I do suggest you talk to her about your feelings. In your prior post you were about ready to give up. Women like it when we (men) open up and show our true feeling. Also tell her what you would like to do if she comes back to try to work things out. You would like to go to marriage counseling to find out what you both need to do to make a great marriage. How you would like to look back in 30 years from now when you are surrounded by grandchildren to see the events that are occurring now the time that corrected the course of your marriage.<p>Things are looking up.

This thread may give you some more hope.
about 6 down (lostva's big post) <p>Check Here<p>Your W already looks like she is doing better than her husband did. <p>We are praying for you (each other really) so don't give up.
Edited to fix link<p>[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

things aren't better at all for me. my ws still tells me she wants out daily (except now she denies it has anything to do with om). she says she is only still with me (temporarily) because of her parents telling her they will disown her if she leaves me.<p>anyway, sorry to complain. I wish I had good news to share. <p>I do have a question though, does anyone know a good marriage counselor in the Chicago Area (preferrably one that is familiar with MB, Dr. Harley, and/or Dr. Phil McGraw)??<p>Thanks.<p>Heartbroken and hoping

Hi Dave, Frank, Aanast2, and other folks! Dave I have been looking for the post. I'm glad I found it. RWD and Frank, my W used the same "soulmate" description for how close she was to OM. This week W was suppose to have kid this week doing all the quote "dirty work" I have been doing as a single parent. Well, good ole W, has call me twice asking me to a "favor" for her as far as caring for the kid during a week that was to be her week with kid. My A was able to get the court hearing delayed and we now have a hearing to discuss why the court hearing should not take place. Basically folks, my W's attorney went behind me and A's back and file for a court hearing without allowing time for discovery. W is trying to get this thing over with as soon as possible. I want to make sure that all my i's are dotted and t's are crossed before I sign any divorce decree. I would rather make sure that things are done correctly on the front rather than having to clean up junk later. I think I am going to take her out Mother's Day. She has been very tense around me lately; wanting to start arguments at every turn. I am not going to argue with her.<p>I'm glad I found you the post Dave. I look forward guys to us helping each other. God bless us all as we go through this hell. I pray for us all that our marriages are restored.<p>Take care!

Still Seekin,<p>Your link didn't work <p>Can you repost it or just cut and past the particular post you are referring to?<p>
Frank1000

I edited it and fixed it, sorry it was bad the first time.

Still Seeking <p>Thanks for the link. It has given me hope that I'm doing the right thing(s) and hope for my M.<p>I must agree that I feel I'm not a doormat and that it is a choice I made to stand by my WS -- it IS a tough choice to subject oneself to the pain and hurt that the WS causes to try to rebuild a M versus the easy way out to end the pain by giving up on the WS.<p>So much of what Lostva said is true and there is a lot of insight to what she said.<p>
As for myself, I slept almost 7 hours each of the last two nites so I feel maybe I am making progress.<p>WS called a couple of times last nite to:<p>1. Let me/us know that the hospital added some more cases so WS would be working late and couldn't come over.<p>2. Talk with the kids because she missed them.<p>I called the hospital back (I just missed WS's second call but got it on the answering machine) but they told me WS was busy assisting a surgery.<p>WS called later (at almost 9 pm) and talked with kids for a few minutes. WS sounded good and was nice when I spoke with her.<p>WS called this morning while I was getting kids ready for school. WS explained that she got home at 1:15 am because the cases just kept coming and that she was sorry she couldn't come and get the kids ready for school.<p>I told her it was okay, that I understood. WS then talked to the kids for a few minutes.<p>I talked with WS again and told her that if she wanted, she should/could come over tonite after work and have dinner and spend the nite. WS said she would think about it and would let me know.<p>WS also said she was going in to see the doctor about her lab work that was done last month (WS had a complete physical -- suggested by consulor)<p>Since I talked with WS on Tuesday morning, I have had a very peaceful feeling and am not worried -- I guess I'm riding high on the rollercoaster. The peaceful feeling has come from my knowing that WS is beginning to have/express doubts. I feel calm also because I am moving on with my life and still doing the Plan A (for myself) and I am not resisting what is happening to me but just trying to go with the flow.<p>I just haven't gotten too excited or worked up by what WS has said lately because I know WS can change her mind again (and I don't want to take a plunge). Finally, I know the peace I feel comes from on High because I gave Him all my pain, anxiety and burdens and I know He is caring me now.<p>
Take care and God Bless,<p>Frank1000<p>
I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. My help coneth from the Lord, which made heaven and earth.<p> Psalm 121:1-2

I don't know if you have seen this one yet. It's pretty helpful also. <p>Wat's Guide<p>And here's one on plan A - and B
NSR's links to info about plan A and B<p>Glad you are sleeping more. Keep your health up, it affects everything else you do.

Thanks still seeking.<p>I was fortunate to have found WAT's Guide about a month ago (and made a hard copy which I have posted in my work cubicle and another copy at house -- but it's not posted in case WS comes by I don't want her to see it [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>I will read the other link ASAP.<p>Thanks again and God Bless.<p>Frank1000<p>Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other's faults because of your love.<p> Ephesians 4:2

Hi PetVet, my post is called something like:
Plan B.. Tough Love.. It has davepr as the starter. I am sorry for the legal situation, that is tough but you will need to protect yourself and do what you have to do. I felt like I was hurting my WS but the facts are you need to protect yourself.<p>I think my situation may be improving... see other post...
Take care,
Dave<p>Aanast, sorry things are not better, but this is a long process with many ups and downs and potential false recoveries, hang in there, you need to prepare your self to be in this for the long haul.
Keep up a Good Plan A, it will make Plan B even better if you have to end up using Plan B.
Hang in there...Keep working on the things that you can control - YOU. Place less focus on the things you cannot control - HER, become the best person that you can become.
Take care,
Dave<p>Frank, keep up the good work, it looks like you are stating to see some results.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I talked with WS again and told her that if she wanted, she should/could come over tonite after work and have
dinner and spend the nite. WS said she would think about it and would let me know. <hr></blockquote> I think that your WS probably already knows this, I would let her come to you versus you going to her. Let her be the one to initiate this movement... keep up the good Plan A but let her come to you is my advice.. See what my WS wrote to me in my post about backing off...
Keep up the good work,
Take care,
Dave

[img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>This morning WS called and said she had over slept and would still come over to take the kids to school if it was okay with me. I told her that it was okay (she worked late again) and to come over.<p>WS arrived and things became VERY interesting...<p>WS said the hospital was working her like a dog (she has no help on her shift) and WS is very tired from the additional hours plus feels used by the hospital.<p>WS said she has no time for herself because of this and hasn't seen the kids in days and really misses them.<p>WS then said that OM hasn't called her since she asked him to call her at least once a week nor has OM told her he loves her. WS said that if OM doesn't call her today or tomorrow, she would like to move back on Saturday!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I told WS that that would be fine and that if she wanted I would help her. I also told WS that I was going to relook at a house I was interested in today after work and invited her to come with me. WS said she wanted to see the house. <p>WS admitted that she was scared coming back (I don't know if I can face your family.) <p>I told her that they would not say a thing, that they would not bring it up (and I know that if any one in my family does then I WILL have a talk with them; heck I plan on having a talk with them before we see them IF WS does move back)<p>WS also said she wanted to look for another RN job and began looking thru the Sunday paper for another job. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm feeling good right now (for obvious reasons) but I'm not dwelling on it at all nor am I getting too hopeful -- I don't want to be hurt again if WS doesn't move back but things are looking positive right now.<p>Thanks to all for your help and input because I would not be where I am at right now without the encouraging words, advise and support; nor I would I be here without His guidance and help.<p>Take care, God Bless and keep praying for us.<p>
Frank1000<p>Work + Time + Faith = Results
Believing is seeing.
You must not give up your faith.

Frank, be very careful here, you need to put
alot of conditions/boundries with her returning or it will NOT work, trust me on that one. My WS has left and cameback oh 2.5 times I guess.<p>Anyway,I strongly suggest a session with the Harleys at this point in time. WS needs to officaly end the relation with the OM, a no contact letter or something plus you guys needs some boundries setup. <p>Maybe you want to start another post just on this topic: "WS wants to come home" to get some ideas.<p>Anyway, I am very happy for you, I hope things work out, you still have a long road but things are looking brighter, keep up the good work.
Take care,
Dave

Frank, <p>I agree with dave - be careful. Sounds likie she wants to come home because she is mad and disapppointed with how OM is treating her. That part is OK. But, you can't get so excited about it all that you let her come home without discussing the necessary precautions. Also, be forewarned that many first attempts at coming home fail, as the WS is rarely prepared to follow through on what they do promise up front. The withdrawal is very hard for the WS to deal with.<p>I do hope things work out for you! RMA

I might as well join the club. I've been reading this thread since the beginning. I feel like I know each one of you personally, so move over. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I guess I'm a little farther along in the moving on department than most. Most of you post your daily contact with WS. I for one don't realy care if my wife is having a good day or not. Sure I care about her, but I don't waste my time being her emotional crutch. She has another man for that now, her soul mate, best friend, whatever she wants to call the OM, right? When my wife asked for space to find herself that's just what I gave her. A space free of my expectations, opinions and concerns. A space where she is free to make her own choices without my influence. What she does with her life is none of my concern anymore, as long as it doesn't affect the kids. I acknowledge the good she's doing, but that's it. When you detach with love and trust in God you don't worry about what she's doing or were she's at. Quite frankly it's a relief not waking up at 3:00am in a panic, wondering if she's OK. It's out of my control, so why worry? <p>Why try to read into every action she does? If my wife left the OM today, I would need to see at least 6 months of self improvement before I would even consider reconciliation with her, let alone welcome her back in our house. In addition I went through her withdrawls over OM once, never again. IMO, dealing with a WS in withdrawl is harder than dealing with the living affair. She chose the passion and excitement of an affair. The pain when reality sets in comes with the choice.<p>Frank, I admire your spirit, but when I read your wife wants to come home if OM doesn't call and you agreed, I about went nucking futs. What do you think is going to happen the first time she contacts him after she moves back in? I would hate for you to hurt anymore Frank, think about it real hard before you make that choice. Listen to your head, your heart is in no condition to be speaking for you. <p>I apologize if I sound hard or cold, but tough love is just that, tough. <p>Sunrays and Saturdays,
Craig

I have to agree with everybody her. You want her to come back if she is sincere in wanting to work on the marriage, not because she is mad at OM. She is like a drug addict. As soon as the OM calls again, you will be in the same boat as you were before. Before you should let her come back, she needs to make a commitment to work on your marriage and to separate herself from the OM.

I also lived with WS going through withdraw from the OM, when she decided to come back for the second time. It is hell for all! It so hard to have sympathy for the person you love when they are crying becasue "I miss him terribly".
If we ever have a reconciliation, it will be after she gets through the withdraw phase. And Craig is
right it is like a drug addiction, if she gets any taste of it during the withdraw phase watch out.
Frank, maybe you just want to give it some time and see what happens, let her prove herself to you and that she is stong enough to make it through the withdraw phase, many WS want to reconcile but do not have the strength to make it through this period of time.
Dave

Thanks for all the advise and concern. I think that WS is sincere but I won't list the reasons rather I will ramble on and let you all decide/comment.<p>WS was at home yesterday when I got home from work. We talked about some of the things she had read in SAA (I had given SAA to WS on Tuesday) and she said that the parts she had read made sense to her. (The details of this talk aren't really important but they were encouraging).<p>We then took our S to soccer pratice and then WS, D and I went to relook at a house I liked (and was thinking about making an offer on). WS didn't like it. I asked WS if she would go with me on Sunday to look at more houses. WS said yes.<p>We then picked up S and went to her sister's house. They were hungry (us too) so we went out to eat. The dinner went very well and I made WS laugh several times. Again it was an enjoyable dinner (and I ate like a hoss -- probably needed to) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WS told me today that D whispered to WS that "Daddy and you are getting along so good today (at the resturant)."<p>WS drove us back home and during the ride, D & S asked/begged WS to spend the nite. WS said she was tired and didn't have her jammies and wouldn't stay over but that she would come by in the morning. WS dropped us off but as she drove away she waved a lot to us (and we did too). [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WS came by this morning and came right to me and gave me a BIG, LONG HUG. WS then said that she wasn't going to wait for OM to call, she wanted to move back tomorrow (Sat). I told her that was fine. <p>WS said that OM has never really called her, that WS was the one who pursued him and pressured him. WS said that she realizes that he hasn't been able to make a commitment and won't now. WS also said that OM can't be monogamous and he can't provide what she needs/wants -- love, support, commitment, etc.<p>WS realized that she would wake up in a month, or months, or a year, 5 years or 10 years and realize/regret what she had and that she threw it away. WS realizes how much pain and hurt she has caused me and many others and regrets it and wants to rectify it. <p>WS then said SAA said that she must not contact OM anymore and that she won't. I told her that we might run into OM if/when we go to a rugby match/tourny/party in that city. I told her that if we run into OM or see him we should immediately leave or put space between them both (kinda hard to leave while in the midst of playing in a match [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ). WS agreed.<p>WS said that SAA stated that she (and I) may suffer depression and that WS may/will go thru withdrawls during the first 6 months of no contact. I told her that I would be there for her and help her but that she must not contact him. WS said she knew that and would not call him.<p>WS then said she wants us to continue the consuling together and I agreed. I then added that loved her and that I had forgiven her and let's try to work on ourselves and begin to put this behind us (I won't bring this up in the future) and begin rebuilding our M.<p>That's what WS wants too. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WS said that there was no comparison between me and OM -- that I was the better man, that I'm a man of integrity and character and that I am the man she wants to be with. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>We both agreed that we want to work on our communication skills with the consulor. We also want to try to do more things together without our kids. (WS said it seems like that every time we try to talk or do something the kids interrupt or get in the way.) We both know that is true, but we also know that they need our attention, especially on an indivdual basis. This is another thing we agreed we need to work on (for ourselves and for our kids)<p>We then woke our kids up and got them dressed for school. I then left for work but before I left, WS came to me and gave me another BIG HUG and a nice kiss on the lips. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I believe that WS was sincere about what she said to me yesterday and today. I feel I know her well enough to be secure that she was sincere. <p>Besides, I talked with my MIL last nite and MIL said that WS called at 4:00 am Thursday morning and they talked for over a hour and a half (same thing WS told me Thursday morning). MIL said that WS had told her that she had made a mistake and wanted to come back (this is before WS told me) but WS was scared of what my family would say. MIL advised her to call, or better, to write them and apologize for what she did and ask for their forgiveness. MIL told WS that if I took her back then it shouldn't matter what my family or anybody else thinks.<p>I know we still have many things to work on and resolve but I AM hopeful and know that WS won't try to contact OM nor move back out. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care, God Bless and keep praying for us.<p>Frank1000<p>
The course of true love never did run smooth.<p> William Shakespeare

Frank, sounds good, still be cautious. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. You may want to start reading/posting some on the Recovery board too. Please keep us udated, I am happy for you.
I am gland you realize that there is still alot of work and ups/downs ahead of you.
Take care,
Dave

Frank,<p>I am so happy for you. I dream about my WS saying those things to me.<p>Keep us updated.<p>-heartbroken and barley hoping

WS came by Friday nite after work and helped put the kids to bed (I was too pooped and went to bed early). After WS put the kids down, she went back to her place.<p>Sat morning I helped move WS back and her girlfriend (ex-roommate now [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ) had a party Sat nite. WS and I had a great time and we slept over there.<p>Sunday I finished moving WS (ex-WS now? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] ). I really didn't set any limits but she told me it was over with OM and that she wasn't going to pursue him anymore. <p>She had begun reading SAA and it made a lot of sense to her. We have agreed to work on improving our communication skills and to try to improve our marriage.<p>We went to the consuling session today and it went very well. W did most of the talking but that was okay, consulor wanted to find out where my W was at. <p>Things are looking good and our immediate concern is to now find a new house (since our current house is under contract and we close on 14 Jun).<p>I know we have a ways to go with our marriage but I know my W won't contact OM and that we can concentrate on working on ourselves and our M. <p>Take care and God Bless<p>Frank1000<p>
The heart wants what the heart wants. There's no logic to those things.<p> -- Woody Allen