<small>[ March 24, 2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD,<p>I haven't ever posted much but I do remember reading some of your posts.<p>I wish that I had something positive to say to you. Something to help but I just don't. I just wanted you to know that someone was out here and that I'm sure that as daylight breaks today someone will have something constructive to say to you. I hope you find your answers, I think that you need to pay attention to the counselor. I have a son who is "ill" and they have had the right answers...<p>I hope you find peace.

AD - Don't worry about the title. Those who've been here remember you and would check up on your post no matter what - we do care - at least I do.<p>Don't apologize for your post - it was about as clear as any of ours are.<p>You're going through alot right now. You're trying to take care of everyone and shouldering a terrible burder - sister, suicidal wife, nephwe in college etc. <p>Have you ever read teh Boundaries book by Cloud and Townsend? If might help you set some boundaries with your sister. She needs a certain amount of boundaries for her own good, and it starts with boundaries from her family and friends. People feel secure when they have boundaries and sometimes they push just to see how far they can get until someone gives them a boundary - and this push doesn't have to be a mean calculated one but just an innocent one - like when children push to see when their parents will draw the line. <p>Maybe you can help her create some of her own boundaries so that she can function without being seen as the "crazy sister." <p>There is also a Boundaries in Marriage book by Cloud and TOwnsend and their website is www.cloudtownsend.com or www.townsendcloud.com. They are Christian and the book has done wonders for my family - even my parents.<p>I think it's good for wife to want you to be with her. Is she still seeing OP? This may be a step in the right direction for you both. You can also give her a deadline or you can have a deadline in your head - a sort of trial period in your mind to help you cope with the situation to see if these arrangements will work out. And then reevaluate the situation and see if it's working. <p>There also may be some books about how to deal with people who threaten suidcide - maybe hre counselor can suggest some to you so that you know how to deal with her threats and can help her work through them. You don't have to directly tell her you're going to help her, you'll just be knowlegeable about how to live and deal with her.<p>It's almost like she needs you to help her cope with life - but if she's acting like a child, then you may need to help her learn to set her own boundaries and learn to take some responsibility for her own life - don't be a co-dependent person - read some books on how not to do that - I know that there have been recommendations for those books on this site or GQII board.<p>Didn't mean for my post to be so long and ramb;y either. Take a deep breath. Says some prayers for help from above and take life one day at a time. <p>You will get through this! K

Hi AD,<p>I don't post a lot now, but I am glad I came here tonight! There are some positives to your sitation.<p>First, your W is going to counselling......that is GREAT news. She sees she has a problem and that it needs to be dealt with, and the counsellor is going to get around to that inner child thing that keeps cropping up in your situation. Be the father figure she wants you to be right now, I really think it will help. Maybe her first emotional need is to be protected.<p>Second, she WANTS you with her.....ok, with the nephew, but she does want it. Wow, what a lot of us would give to hear those words from our WS's. Okay, her place is cramped, it is small, but is could be workable...<p>Third, she is reaching out to you.......she is telling you she is not coping, she needs help. Help her, she wants it, she is hoping you will be there. Okay, it isn't an ideal situation, and it will be hard, but you can be there for her.<p>Fourth...........don't try to interpret her words on what you think you know about her. You two have been apart for a while....it is a mistake my H made and still makes with me...he automatically thought that whatever I said had some alterior motive. Take what she says as it comes. Second guessing her will put her off-side, and make you more mistrustful.<p>My belief is this....a WS who doesn't want the BS around doesn't go around asking them to move in with them; it is never even discussed. She may indeed have bad memories of your current house....WS's can have triggers too. She needs a neutral environment to cope.<p>As for your sister, poor girl, she is also reaching out. Do what you can for her, but remember you have to deal with your own life too. She sounds like something is going on in her life that you might not know about, ie drugs, alcohol, maybe even (cos she has never had a boyfriend) she is confused about her sexuality. Dig a little, see what her problems are, then you may be able to help in some way.<p>Well, you say YOU go on!!! I have said enough. Nice [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] to see you back here. I think your marriage is on the road to being fixed.........a long way to go, but at least on that road!<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

AD,<p> I don't visit this site(D/D) very often, but had the urge this morning. I am glad I did. I remember you as well. You came to MB not long after I did. <p> You have a terrible amount of stress on your shoulders. All I really want to say to you is that you need to take care of "you" first. You need to set aside some time each week where you can relax and let go of everything. <p> You are a good and decent guy. That is evident. But what good will it do anyone if the stress of it all kills you. <p> Take a break from all the pressures. Live a day for only yourself. Then worry about all the others for awhile, then take another break for you.<p> Nobody can do this stuff forever. Not me, not you, not anyone. And I really believe that if we can't find a way to let go of some of the stress it will kill us.<p> I am praying for you and your situation. <p> jd

AD. We are old pros already. Yet it seems that your situation hasn't changed much just laterally. Your young wife seems very unstable and has been that way for a while. But you are always there for her. I just think that you should keep an emotional distance from her and start working on yourself. Its time for you to start a new chapter in the book of life and move on. If people seem to be needy around you then it might be that you helped create the situation. This is the world you seemed to create. Its time to change your world.
Old friend, driving around with a CPU in tow dosn't seem to fit my image of you. Work on the house,you arn't working then sell it." A new book is waiting for you"

AD,
You sure do have a lot on your plate!<p>You need to clear some space. Why are you taking care of your nephew? Is it your sister's son? If not he needs to being paying you room and board, if he was living somewhere else he would have to, so what not for you, especially in these circumstances. He and his family need to be responsible for HIS life not you.<p>I am inferring that you are trying to save your marriage so if your w isn't comfortable living there I would agree that selling and moving would be the best deal. I thing in SAA, they recommend that you do move to get away from the op, so I would apply this same logic. Get a fresh start.<p>You probably should speak with the counselor again about the hospitilazation. I don't know that much about it, but it seems like you made some big assumption there. She may need some intense treatment that will help.<p>Just my .02 cents.<p>Hang in.

just thoughts,& hoping you can handle it all.<p>take a break, go visit your mom, if you can't go every wk, call, send a card or something. 1 thing you know your mom will always love you.

((((((((AD))))))))<p>I think of you often. I wonder how you are doing. Jacky and I miss you on IM. It's so good to hear from you, even if your life is a bit chaotic right now.<p>I think people that try to help others, that are giving as you are, are just like a magnet that attracts those who are needy.<p>You do need to invest in some books that set your boundaries and perhaps attend Alanon meetings even though I haven't heard of any alcohol abuse, Alanon will do wonders for you.<p>You need to keep in mind that you can't save the world and start practicing "No".<p>Take care and good luck and CHECK IN MORE OFTEN! Sheeesh. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
Your friend,<p>ANNA

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD, Don't get upset if the advice you recieve is not inline with what you want to hear. I remember your old posts and there was another "OM" some where and a wife that just put you to the side and moved out and a child. I remenber your pain, I remember that and how badly it hurt you. There is a point where people move on. I believe in vows as well, but they are meant to work two ways. Should'nt you put a limit to the emotional abuse coming your way. Wouldnt it be nice that the love you give is equal to the love you recieve. Think this out and give your marriage a time limit. I realize you love her but love is a two way street. Be good to yourself.

Hi AD,
I was wondering just the other day whatever happened with you. I'm separated from my H, and I was worried during the process that he might jump off a bridge or something equally drastic. I was still in counselling at the time. C was concerned about my own safety too, and so was a C at the veteran center I met with twice. Vet center C said she could "guarantee" that all the "guys" (Vietnam vets with ptsd) think about suicide. Now, my H has NEVER threatened me physically, injured me physically, or outright threatened suicide, but still I was worried about all these things. I didn't know how else to respond when H would say how everything is dark, there is no future, or he'll be dead by his birthday (which was a week away at that time). <p>Here's the advice I got from my C that I'll share with you in hopes it will be helpful AD. First, any comment about suicide should be taken seriously. Most people already know that, I think, but the next thing C said surprised me. She suggested that I quiz H about how he would do it. I was aghast. She said if the person responds with a specific method, it is even more of a red flag that the person is seriously contemplating it. Personally, I'm not comfortable with that. I would agree, though, that a person is definitely sending up a double red flag if they say they're suicidal and then states what their method would be. <p>My C said the appropriate response to a suicide threat is to call 911 and get them evaluated. She said the ONLY time a mental health professional can treat a patient without the patient's permission happens when the patient is a danger to themselves or others. I was definitely lukewarm about this advice, but my H's comments were becoming very predictable. Never an outright threat of suicide, but anytime I'd try to talk about our finances, our marriage, our future, he'd pull the "everything is dark" routine. It worked everytime. It made me afraid to broach the topics I wanted to discuss with him. I wanted a marriage with this man, but I didn't really have one. I was living a life in fear of what he might do next. <p>When he made the "I'll be dead by my birthday" comment, I asked him what he meant by that. He said he didn't mean anything. I told him I don't feel adequate in making a proper response to such comments and the next time I hear him make a comment like that, I'll be calling 911. There was one more incident after that, and I contacted my counselor. He had just moved out, and he left behind a piece of artwork I found very disturbing. I showed it to my C, and she shared my concern. C contacted him at work to evaluate his state of mind. <p>Now that H and I are separated, I don't know if he would still be making such comments to me or not. All I know is my own life force was diminishing into nothing. Part of good stewardship includes the manner in which I care for myself. I was doing a mighty poor job of it, and I try every day to do better. My H has surrounded his heart with barbed wire, and I must leave it up to him to cut through from the inside out. I cannot do it for him, and I was dying a death of 1000 cuts during the time that I tried. I was carrying burdens that belonged to my H, and I wasn't doing either one of us any favors in doing so. <p>AD, you're a good man with impeccable integrity. You have a long history of making yourself available to every beck and call your W makes. Is it achieving the results you desire? Are you seeing progress, or more of the same? Your dedication to your vows is exemplary. I just have to wonder if you don't have more options in honoring them. Shielding your W from consequences might seem like the right and loving thing to do, but is it really? You mentioned that your family pays your sister's bills so your sister won't be homeless. Is that really the solution? Is your sister going to be anything but dependent on family if she is allowed to continue in such a manner? And is your W going to be anything but manipulative in the future if you agree to every beck and call she makes? I don't want to sound harsh or appear insenstive to the pain your W experiences. I believe my H is a tormented soul, and perhaps your W is also. That IMHO is not reason enough to endure emotional abuse, and I believe that protecting yourself from abuse is consistent with the vows you took. Practicing self care and protecting yourself from abuse is not the same as giving up, even if you end up in separate households.

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

ad- Start building your case for custody, do this now. Record her suicide comments and keep logs. I believe your child might be in danger. If in fact she is unstable then you need to act on it and get your child out of there. Speak to a good custody attorney and build your case "get your ducks in a row". I would do it soon.
Sorry old friend, but if what you are telling us is so, then you need to think about yourself and your beautiful little girl. AD , do it.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by AbandonedDad:
<strong>
I went over there (to W's apt.) since I knew she was on the phone and knew it wasn't her Mom and that there was nobody else she would call after midnight. A few minutes after she let me in, the phone rang again. She picked it up, listened for a moment and hung it up. I knew who it was. She knew that I knew. Neither of us said anything about it. We went to bed.
-AD</strong><hr></blockquote><p>AD,<p>It sounds like she didn't want you moving in because she would not have the freedom to talk to OM. What will she do when you move in? With her state of mind, I have to ask, "Is your moving in going to help her, or make her worse?"<p>Just some thoughts.<p>ANNA<p>P.S.<p>I think I posted above at the same time you posted...

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD- OK I understand your position, it takes a lot of patience to deal with the issues you are facing. I imagine she needs to grow up a bit and see how disrupting this OM really is. It might take time for her to come around or she may never, I hope for your sake she does. It seems that even with this OM she has a need for you to be near.
But please if she brings up suicide again or becomes more unstable - think only of your child. Love tends to blind us to the real reality of our lifes and we tend to accept situations that we would never of before. Sometimes this fog works two ways. AD your a good man, I hope one day it comes back to you.

I know your child is still very young, but I see the beginning of an unhealthy pattern here. Yes you want your children to be dependent. (Seems funny we want young children to develop independence but older children not to run too fast.) But, what will your wife be like when this precious child begins the individuation process? That little girl is not always going to be so compliant and so ever-present.<p>Is your wife telling her counselor everything or is she really just going through the motions of counseling?

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>