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I posted recently about feeling bad and having a very difficult time. i really didn't give much information cuz i was just so upset i couldn't get into it, but here somemore info. i really need input/advise, heck i just need support. <p>My divorce was final on 10/25/2001, but i still love my xh and i am pretty sure that he still loves me. Since our seperation in March of 2001, we have been on again off again more times than i can count. The Story... Approximatley 1 year before final seperation (we seperated more than once), during a seperation, i had an affair. this really ripped my ex apart to the point that he adds extra stuff to the situation that he believes to have occured and be true, but didn't and isn't.<p>after my affair ended, my then h, had affair but as well, but feels like he isn't wrong because i had one. after lots of arguing, blaming and each not accepting his/her own responsibilty we reunited. i did accept a couple of calls from the om after me and h were back together and i also saved his number in my cell phone. don't ask me why. i guess it was insurance. if h acted up i could flee, but that wasn't a conscious idea or plan. i really was over om after realizing what a selfish b he was... h also went back to ow once after coming home...<p>NE way, we reunited. it was a struggle because we both had serious trust issues and it was so hard for h to forgive and move on. so it all eventually led to the "i'm sick of you, i want out" from h. that was in february 2001. after seperating we really didn't see each other much for a couple of months, but we never, not even to date, have really let go... during these couple of months i started dating and he started dating. only i found out that he was seeing my friend. a friend that i was still friends with, talking to on a daily basis, visiting, hanging out with, etc.<p>let me tell you all that i really trusted him and this friend. i had her calling him. i had him loaning her money. i watched him put his arms around her while we were out on a double date or she was at my house visiting. but i trusted them. then i found out they were hanging out with each other. i was furious and felt betrayed and hurt. they both denyed anything ever happened and made me feel stupid and small for even accusing them. the truth is they turned their indiscriminate affair back on me and made me the jerk... she said i violated her trust and that she would never forgive me and my h just cursed and screamed and denied that anything other than comversation ever happend and he did that for nearly a year. <p>during this year, from march to date, we have been basically having an affair. he won't commit anything. he holds on to his single life style , but implies that i should be faithful and pure. and if i do anything that is unbecoming of a wife, mind you i'm not his wife, he divorced me, he gets mad at me he accuses me of being everything but a child of God and calls me every name in the book but a child of God. and i am talking some real gutter stuff... verbal violence... <p>last week out of pure anger the ex finally admits that he slept with my freind. OMG... i can't handle it. i mean i really can't handle it. he not only admitted that, he did some other really mean and vindictive things. now it's a week later and he feels that i should be over it, even though he still isn't over the affair i had in 1999/2000 while we were seperated (i realize it was still wrong and i am not justifying my affair by saying we were seperated, i also have begged forgiveness for my behavior which to date has not been given. <p>he became furious with me the other day because he called me and i had one, out of three, of his telephone numbers blocked. it only took him a whole week to find out that the number was even blocked and by the time he found out i had forgotten that i'd even blocked the stupid number. yet he was furious and tried to start with one of his tyraids. only this time i didn't want to hear it. i can't survive another one of his tyraids. they are so painful and they make me just want to die.<p>today, we are doing okay, but i am in so much pain. i can't forget how betrayed i feel. i was lied to and made to seem like a psyco because i was falsley accusing. i am accused of being a lier, a tramp, etc.(i'm sure you all can imagine the nasty, vile, cruel words that have been said to me, and i might add, never what i do is deserving of this type of name calling/treatment. Although he believes it is). and he calls me all this stuff and acts like he has done nothing to injure me, my feelings, my trust and this relationship...<p>if you are wondering what brought on ex revealing his affair with my friend, it was because i emailed a guy, that i dated recently, an email. the email was spiritual in nature and i mailed it from a distribution list. the email subject was, "It Depends" and i typed, this is beautiful". i had no remembrance that his name was even on the list until ex brought it to my attention. to him this was a major violation, because i promised to cut all ties with all my strays and be committed to making our relationship work, in spite of the fact that he never promised to do the same. and because i emailed the guy "i was still trying to maintain our realtionship, just like before"...(ex's words)but when i tried to explaine that it was an accident he just called me a lying b,etc. not to mention he finally revealed the truth about his affair with my friend and more.<p>The bottom line in all this is, and this is for davepr, i still love my h very much and i believe he still loves me very much. i still have hope for us and i still want to be his wife. does this make me crazy? i just don't know anymore...<p>i mean i am supposed to be his wife and he is supposed to be my husband. i can't give up hope. i have no desire to give up hope. even in the midst of my extreme emotional pain. i love him and i will not give up hope until i die, he dies or he remarries... i just can't. call ne crazy. i believe i am, but i still refuse to give up hope. hope is all i have and i want it...
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Hi Idostylin, I am sorry that you are in this situation as I know it is very painful. I don't think you are crazy for still holding onto hope. ONLY YOU can decide when to give up. For me, the pain became too great, I had to give up to protect myself, I just could not deal with the pain any longer. I was willing to wait for her forever, but I could no longer do this to myself, I want her back more than almost anything on earth but I can not continue to be hurt like this. It is hard to believe that I will ever love anyone as much as I loved her but I know that God will send someone into my life WHEN I am ready and that I will love again. Maybe God will send her back into my life someday when were are both ready, but today she is not, until such I time I need to remain in self protection mode.<p>There are ways to protect yourself while still holding on to hope and working on the marriage. It sounds like the verbal abuse is very bad. You are not only suffering the pain from your A, your husbands A, but have your best friend involved in this too, wow, that is alot to handle.<p>Remember that it takes two to work things out, not that you can't try to move things along by yourself, but much easier with two. There appears to be alot of pain on both sides. Are you in MC and/or IC? At some point you are going to have to let go of the pain from the past, I know that is not easy but you can't carry it around forever. I like the saying "those that anger you, control you" I found the following very useful:<p>It also sounds like your ex is not accepting responsibilty for his part, he is going to have to take some responsibilty and stop the verbal abuse if this is going to work out, does he realize this? Is he open to MC? Has he read SAA?<p>If you have more on agains off agains then you can count, maybe you need to consider something to break this pattern and reunite once and for all. Hopefully a good MC can help you guys. Have you done a Plan A and/or Plan B?<p>Bottom line, you are not crazy for this, this is yours and only your decision, you decide when enough is enough, until then work on your plan and be sure you are the focus of your plan. You will know when the pain is getting to great to handle, remember to protect yourself through this. Take care, Dave<p>******************************************* You're really mad at your partner. You've explained your point of view a million times. S/he never listens. You can't believe that a person can be so insensitive. So, you wait. You're convinced that eventually s/he will have to see the light; that you're right and s/he's wrong. In the meantime, there's silence. But the tension is so thick in your house, you can cut it with a knife. You hate the distance, but there's nothing you can do about it because you're mad. You're really mad. <p> You try to make yourself feel better by getting involved in other things. Sometimes this even works. But you wake up every morning facing the fact that nothing's changed at all. A feeling of dissatisfaction permeates everything you do. From time to time, you ask yourself, "Is there something I should do differently,?" but you quickly dismiss this thought because you know that, in your heart of hearts, you're not the one to blame. So the distance between you and your partner persists. <p> Does any of this sound familiar? Have you and your partner been so angry with each other that you've gone your separate ways and stopped interacting with each other? Have you convinced yourself that, until s/he initiates making up, there will be no peace in your house? If so, I have few things I want to tell you. <p> You are wasting precious energy holding on to your anger. It's exhausting to feel resentment day in and day out. It takes a toll on your body and soul. It's bad for your health and hard on your spirit. It's awful for your relationship. Anger imprisons you. It casts a gray cloud over your days. It prevents you from feeling real joy in any part of your life. Each day you drown yourself in resentment is another day lost out of your life. What a waste! <p> I have worked with so many people who live in quiet desperation because they are utterly convinced that their way of seeing things is right and their partner's is wrong. They spend a lifetime trying to get their partners to share their views. I hear, "I'll change if s/he changes," a philosophy that ultimately leads to a stalemate. There are many variations of this position. For example, "I'd be nicer to her, if she were nicer to me," or "I'd be more physical and affectionate if he were more communicative with me," or "I'd be more considerate and tell her about my plans if she wouldn't hound me all the time about what I do." You get the picture… "I'll be different if you start being different first." Trust me when I tell you that this can be a very, very long wait. <p> There's a much better way to view things when you and your partner get stuck like this. I've been working with couples for years and I've learned a lot about how change occurs in relationships. It's like a chain reaction. If one person changes, the other one does too. It really doesn't matter who starts first. It's simply a matter of tipping over the first domino. Change is reciprocal. Let me give you an example. <p> I worked with a woman who was very distressed about her husband's long hours at work. She felt they spent very little time together as a couple and that he was of little help at home. This infuriated her. Every evening when he returned for work, her anger got the best of her and she criticized him for bailing out on her. Inevitably, the evening would be ruined. The last thing he wanted to do after a long day at work was to deal with problems the moment in walked in the door. Although she understood this, she was so hurt and angry about his long absences that she felt her anger was justified. She wanted a suggestion from me about how to get her husband to be more attentive and loving. She was at her wit's end. <p> I told her that I could completely understand why she was frustrated and that, if I were in her shoes, I would feel exactly the same way. However, I wondered if she could imagine how her husband might feel about her nightly barrage of complaints. "He probably wishes he didn't have to come home," she said. "Precisely," I thought to myself, and I knew she was ready to switch gears. I suggested that she try an experiment. "Tonight when he comes home, surprise him with an affectionate greeting. Don't complain, just tell him you're happy to see him. Do something kind or thoughtful that you haven't done in a long time…even if you don't feel like it." "You mean like fixing him his favorite meal or giving him a warm hug? I used to do that a lot." "That's exactly what I mean," I told her, and we discussed other things she might do as well. She agreed to give it a try. <p> Two weeks later she returned to my office and told me about the results of her "experiment." <p> "That first night after I talked with you I met him at the door and, without a word, gave him a huge hug. He looked astounded, but curious. I made him his favorite pasta dish, which was heavy on the garlic, so he smelled the aroma the moment he walked in. Immediately, he commented on it and looked pleased. We had a great evening together, the first in months. I was so pleased and surprised by his positive reaction that I felt motivated to keep being 'the new me.' Since then things between us have been so much better, it's amazing. He's come home earlier and he's even calling me from work just to say hello. I can't believe the change in him. I'm so much happier this way." <p> The moral of this story is obvious. When one partner changes, the other partner changes too. It's a law of relationships. If you aren't getting what you need or want from your loved one, instead of trying to convince him or her to change, why not change your approach to the situation? Why not be more pragmatic? If what you're doing (talking to your partner about the error of his/her ways) hasn't been working, no matter how sterling your logic, you're not going to get very far. Be more flexible and creative. Be more strategic. Spend more time trying to figure out what might work as opposed to being hell bent on driving your point home. You might be pleasantly surprised. Remember, insanity has been defined as doing the same old thing over and over and expecting different results. <p> Look, life is short. We only have one go-around. Make your relationship the best it can possibly be. Stop waiting for your partner to change in order for things to be better. When you decide to change first, it will be the beginning of a solution avalanche. Try it, you'll like it! <p> Are you someone who walks around feeling angry with your spouse or loved one much of the time? Do you have a little inner voice that constantly reminds you of all of his or her wrongdoings? Have you become expert at remembering all the minute details of past injustices just so that you can keep score? If this describes you at all, you better read what I’m about to say and take it to heart. <p> Lack of forgiveness imprisons you. It takes its toll on your physical and emotional health. It keeps you stuck in the deepest of relationship ruts. No matter how justified you feel about your point of view regarding your partner’s insensitive behavior, you still are miserable. When you wake up each morning, a gray tint shadows your life. You walk around with a low-grade depression. You can’t feel joy because you’re too busy being angry or feeling disappointed. <p> In the face of these fairly obvious disadvantages, you hang on to your belief that, since you feel let down, you must not “give in.” To you, giving in means forgiving, letting go, making peace. To do so, would be tantamount to giving up your soul. So, you keep your distance. You interact in perfunctory ways, never allowing your partner to step over the emotional line you’ve drawn. And though the distance often feels intolerable, forgiveness is not on your short list of solutions to your dilemma. <p> I have worked with so many couples who say they want to heal their relationships. And yet, when they’re offered the tools, they can’t seem to move forward. These are the couples who, instead of finding effective ways to get beyond blame, continue to repeat their mantra, “Our problems are your fault and you must pay.” As long as they maintain this mindset, they are doomed to failure. How very sad. Even sadder are their children who, on a day-by-day observe their parents being “right” but “miserable.” What lessons are they learning about love? <p> If any of this strikes a chord with you (and you wouldn’t be reading this if it didn’t), you need to internalize that forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. Letting go of resentment can set you free. It can bring more love and happiness into your life. It opens the door to intimacy and connection. It makes you feel whole. Forgiving others takes strength, particularly when you feel wronged, but the fortitude required to forgive pales in comparison to the energy necessary to maintain a sizable grudge. The person most hurt by holding out or blaming is YOU, no matter what the circumstances. <p> “All this sounds good,” you tell yourself, “but how can I ever forget what my partner did to me?” Good question. You don’t! Forgiveness is not the same as forgetting. You will probably always remember the particular injustice(s) that drove you into your corner. But what will happen, is that when you forgive, the intense emotions associated with the event(s) begin to fade. You will feel happier, lighter, more loving. And these renewed positive feelings won’t go unnoticed. Others will be drawn to you. <p> Just keep in mind that forgiveness isn’t a feeling. It is a decision. You decide that you are going start tomorrow with a clean slate. Even if it isn’t easy, you make the determination that the alternative is even harder, and that you are going to do what you must to begin creating a more positive future. <p> So promise yourself, that no matter what the reason, you will not go another day blaming your partner and feeling lonely. Make peace. Make up. Make love. I promise you that the benefits of deciding to forgive go far beyond anything you can picture in your mind’s eye at the moment. Your decision to forgive will create a ripple effect of exponential changes in your life
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>So promise yourself, that no matter what the reason, you will not go another day blaming your partner and feeling lonely. Make peace. Make up. Make love. I promise you that the benefits of deciding to forgive go far beyond anything you can picture in your mind’s eye at the moment. Your decision to forgive will create a ripple effect of exponential changes in your life</strong><hr></blockquote><p>That was really a good read. I think I read it somewhere before. But the part I didn't delete is the part I am haveing trouble with. I can't seem to get to the solution part of this advice. Especially since I really have suffered so much at the hands of my ex. Today I am so pissed at myself for continuing to let him treat me this way. Last night after he left my house I called him and asked him to bring our daughter $10 before he went to work. He had a fit. It infuriates me because he makes a lot of money and he totally used my feelings and my hopes to reconcile against me during the filing of our divorce. <p>Now, I am in the process of filing bankruptcy and he is paying off debts and shopping his but off. He has something new litreally everytime I see him. He paid off his Benz, his credit cards, etc. and I am bankrupt. We lived in a house together for 14 years and when the house sold he gave me $3000, only he had to pay me because it was in our divorce settlement listed as moving expenses, which didn't even begin to cover the expenses of my move. He tried to leave me with nothing, but then relented to child support only. OOOOOO am i angry. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>At times I hate him and today is one of those days. I have nothing but debt and struggles. I have daily, heck minutely struggles to keep from financilly, physically and emotionally drowning and he says i hurt him... OMG... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But he would never agree with this. He would say he has given me and done everything for me... he would say i am the lier, the vindictive one, the cheater, etc. <p>He is such a good lier that he believes and buys into his own hype... <p>NOT A GOOD DAY... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] NOT A GOOD DAY AT ALL...
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i guess nobody wants to read this long winded ranting, but i really hoped for some other responses. i am really going crazy here... i mean really...
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Now i just got yelled at for 10 minutes for asking my ex to give his d $10 for the weekend. he is pissed cuz i didn't say thanks for the food he brought us last night. i did say thank you, because i make it a point. because i neglected to say thank you once and i was all kinds of ungrateful b's and all. now i am one more time i am ungrateful, and thus begins the yelling and name calling from him. <p>he acts like he has no money but he will be out tonight buying some b**** drinks and whatever else and he can't give his kid $10... <p>OMG... i really need help... i'm really suffering here. i don't deserve this abuse and the way he lies on my character, it makes me sick. i am so sick and tired... <p>but i guess not tired enough because i always start missing him and wanting him. i am a sick puppy... i think i need an evaluation myself... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
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((((((((((((((((((((((((kim))))))))))))))))))))<p>I am so sorry you are going through so much pain and anger right now. It is the hardest thing is the world to love somebody who doesn't seem to care about our feelings or needs, and can carry on a life that seems better than the one we have to live. I know, I am in the same place right now. <p>I am struggling with post-operative recovery, trying to care for my three kids when I am still supposed to be resting, I am restricted with money in ways I never was before, and I am resentful of the fact that my stbx is in another country, never has to face the consequences of his actions, never has to see the hurt in his kids eyes, never has to go to court, and is living the high life of a single man with his floozie.<p>I remind you of all this because of what I do in this horrible time in my life. I have to tell myself every time the resentment kicks in, that I have absolutely NO control over what my stbx does with his life now. Therefore I have to let it go. I have to work on me, I have to do whatever it takes to create a new and happy future for me and the kids....one that does not include stbx. I have to accept that he said and did all those things, and just get on with life despite the hurt.<p>I am not in your position yet...I do not have to deal with H in any way, so in some respects I am luckier, because I know the pain will be renewed every time I see him when he gets back here. But I also know, that if it gets too bad to see him, and talk to him, then I will make sure that I create a very strong Plan B to protect myself.<p>Your X is hurting you, he is verbally abusing you, he is displaying inappropriate behaviours in your presence because he is still testing you...he can see you still love him, and I believe he is making sure of it by being nasty to judge your reaction. And when you LB, it will justify his leaving. The key is that I think he resents the divorce, and is still trying to find reasons that justify his decision.<p>Well what can you do? Two things, I guess.......Plan A, but I think you are all out of that, judging by how you feel right now or Plan B....REALLY hard to do, but I will tell you that for me, it really helped. NOT the relationship, but ME. I don't feel as crazy or worthless, don't get the devastation anymore just because I love him, I don't get my blood boiling, because the communication is written only, so even if I get mad, I have plenty of time to think before I have to reply......or I can even choose NOT to reply.<p>It helps me because Plan B allows me a measure of control. No, I can't control whatever he says, does, writes, etc, but I CAN choose how I react and what I do and what I feel about it. I have found this very empowering and it has made me a lot stronger.<p>No, life is not a bed of roses, and after 18 months now since the first D-Day, I still hurt and ache for the death of my marriage. BUT these days, I have learned to protect myself, and things ARE better...that is what you need to do.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky
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Hi Idostylin, I know that you stated that you still love your ex-H but I think you need to take a very hard look at his actions and his abuse towards you, be very honest with yourself, try to put the emotions a side, do you really want to be with someone that treats you like this? If so, I still think you need to setup some boundries to protect yourself, you can't continue on this path, it is very destructive to you and your child. Plan B may be better to protect you, you should consider it at this point in time. It may bring him to reality or it may really finalize the D for you but I think you are in too much pain to continue like this. Are you having a better day today? Take care, Dave
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yes, i am better today. I didn't see or speak to ex all weekend, and hard as it was to not speak with him i did experience a level of peace. i didn't have to be in fear of my doing or saying the wrong thing to set him off and thus begin the abuse. i feel like a frightened child, and this weekend i didn't have to feel that way. it was good. <p>i do feel very sad, but i still feel peace. thanks jacky and dave. i'm glad someone is here to support me. it's a crazy time, but i know we will make it... we have to. we just have to...<p>love kim... [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]
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Hi Kim, glad to hear you are doing better today. I thing that you will find that the more distance you can keep from him (Plan B) the better off you will be and the greater the chances of succcess you will have. The problem with Plan B is you have alot of sadness and you have to fight the urge to breakdown and call. I am in the same situation. Desiree and K has given me some great advise that you may want to consider. Plan B all of the time except when you must have contact, then Plan A. So in other words, leave him alone, give him space and time, work on yourself but when you do interact, be polite and considerate, but limit the interaction. Let him come back to you at his pace, you can't make someone do something (that is a real hard one for me) Keep in touch, keep the faith, and keep working on yourself. Take care, Dave
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