First, I am (and need to be) happy that my 7 y.o. son is secure enough in his knowledge that I LOVE HIM NO MATTER WHAT he says or does, that he can say such things to me. He is definitely not afraid that if he says something wrong that I won't love him anymore ...<p>But, wow, does it have to be this harsh?<p>He tells me, all the time, how Grandma X (my XH's mother) is his favorite person. The top of his list. Okay, I understand this. It hurts, but I 'get it'. My favorite sister when I was little was not the one with all the rules I was expected to follow, it was the one who always bought me stuff!<p>He told me last night, and has on at least one other occasion, that I am at the BOTTOM of the list of people that he DOES like.<p>I guess the good news is that I even MADE the list of people he DOES like.<p>Trying to be careful with my words, I asked why I was at the bottom of the list. Because I spank. I said I used to spank, but it has been a long time. He sort of had to agree, but then went on about other types of punishment and loss of privileges.<p>Again, watching how I said it, I asked what I could do to be closer to the top of his list. He doesn't want any punishments, ever. I told him everyone has punishments for breaking the rules, even adults. He said no you don't. I said, yes, there is jail. It is my job to make sure you learn to follow the rules now, so that you don't end up in jail when you're an adult.<p>Now maybe I didn't handle that as well as I could have, but I didn't tell him that people who don't punish him are bad and wrong!! ;}<p>He doesn't still say it in the angry, hateful way he used to, but he does still sometimes say that when he's old enough to tell the judge what he wants, he's going to tell him he wants to live with Grandma. (Sometimes he says Dad. Dad lives with Grandma and Grandpa. He thinks that Dad is going to live with Grandma for a very long time, I think, because if I say that Dad won't always live with Grandma, he doesn't seem to understand...)<p>What can I do? He is a generally happy, loving, bright boy with lots of energy and his mind is constantly buzzing with grandiose imaginary scenes. I don't (and don't think I should) let him see how much his comments hurt, lest he discontinue being so brutally honest with me.<p>Should I ask why Grandma is his favorite person? I have done this in the past, and he has told me things like she plays his games with him, she buys him this and that, she does not punish him, she makes him what he wants to eat and doesn't make him eat stuff he doesn't like. Most are things I don't do because I think they are wrong. Some I just do not have time for (I pointed out all the times we have played games or did puzzles or read together - he seemed to recall them like "oh yeah" as if he'd been told that I never do those things with him).<p>I don't need to be his favorite person. My job as a parent is not to be his best friend. But, for goodness sakes, can I get some help at getting off the BOTTOM of the list??! Can he be excited about ME picking him up sometimes, without me having to buy his affection?!?<p>Grrrrr.

PBC,
Why don't you explain to him(maybe again) the difference between a parent and a grandparent.<p>I know it sucks.<p>Hang in!<p>Bob

bump - what do I say? - that Grandma doesn't have to enforce rules because she's not the one responsible for raising a capable adult?<p>Grandma accompanied her 36 year old son to the hearing this morning (see "trying not to gloat") - that was amusing.

PB,<p>I had to laugh when I read your thread..Not that
it's funny..but that your 7 yr old son sounds JUST like mine..<p>As the custodial parent..you are required to do the majority of the punishments..as am I..because
we LOVE OUR CHILDREN and want them to learn life doesn't just hand them things..<p>I am my son's least favorite person anytime I tell him NO!! Doesn't matter what it is for..from buying a candy bar..to making him a PBJ before dinner..<p>my ex, much like your ex..rarely tells him no..and if he does by chance tell him No, son gets angry at dad..Son has been known to hang up the phone on his dad because he told him No (and dad gives in)I get onto him when he hangs up on his dad
because he has to learn that's unacceptable behavior..and son is angry at me again..<p>I too explain that bad choices have consequences..
just as good choices have consequences..if you
do something wrong you get displined..if you do
something good..you get whatever..<p>I went through the same things with my older two
girls..(so this is just a phase) unless they don't learn from it..so take heart..Your son will learn
in time that mom doesn't allow this...dad does..
and will change..he may slip occassionally..but
in time..he will respect you even more..<p>My daughters know what dad will allow..and they take advantage of him..he's complained to me that
NONE of them listen to him..and that he feels the ONLY reason they want to spend time with him is because they want something..they know MOM will say NO..so they don't bother asking..but that's his fault..I've suggested he tell them NO..but he says.."He doesn't want to make them mad" like they will stop loving him if he doesn't give them whatever they want..I told him.."I don't care if they get mad at me they can get mad all they want..but they need to learn they won't get everything they ask for..or want in life" <p>But these are his struggles..Not mine anymore..
and something he will have to learn on his own..<p>when my son tells me he hates me because I told him No to something..I just say..<p>"I'm really sorry you feel that way, I do understand how frustrating it is when you don't get your way, I know I get frustrated when I ask you kids to do something and you don't, it doesn't make me hate you..but it does upset me that you don't do it" <p>He's learning..and doesn't lash out in anger as much..and when he does tell me he hates me..he goes to his room (on his own) and then comes back out about 10 minutes later and gives me a big hug..and tells me he loves me..and I again tell him I love him..I may not always like his actions..just like he may not always like mine..
and thats okay..we don't always have to like the actions of another person..<p>Just know that your not alone..ALL kids go through this stage..and your doing the right thing..<p>Also know that one day..your ex will get tired of his son always 'wanting and expecting' dad to give to him..and the anger will be lashed at him...when dad finally does learn to tell him No...

Thanks, TR - that helps.<p>A little funny to add - once my son told me that my BF was at the top of the list of boys that he likes - therefore second on his list of people that he likes, right under Grandma - I had to ask him "what about Dad?" - he thought about it a moment before placing Dad just above BF on the list. So now it goes ...<p>Son's List of People He Likes:<p>1.) Grandma X
2.) Dad
3.) mom's BF
...
...
...
??.) Mom<p>
At least I am not on the list with Osama. ;}

PB,<p>It's okay...my bf makes the list higher than I do
sometimes too...but I take that as a positive sign..they like him..they get upset with him when he tells them.."What did YOUR mother tell You to do??" he doesn't disipline..just gets a stern voice when he asks them...they look at me..and I'm
like..well..what I ask you to do?? then they do it..LOL

I just had to reply to you because I have a 7 year old son and as far as he is concerned I'm not even ON the list of people he likes - actually he tells me he doesn't like me all the time and that he doesn't like my family(his grandma and grandpa) and that he likes daddy's family and daddy more. <p>It really hurts, but this is what the social worker says about this. <p>For one my 7 year old is angry - ok, so we knew that, but he is really angry at his dad and not me but projects it onto me, adn the counselor has to keep reminding him of that. <p>Why does my son have to release his anger out on me? I don't know. Maybe because he knows that he can express his emotions around me and I won't get mad at him like his dad does. Maybe he's trying to see if he says something bad enough if I'll abandon him like his dad did, and so he needs the security of my response.<p>I also know that 7 year olds need to put the blame on someone, and so he blames me. I'm the one who locked daddy out of the house, I'm the one who called the police on daddy etc. I can't tell my son the things his daddy did that caused mommy to have to do those things, so I'm the bad one in his eyes.<p>Now of course, immediately after he says something like I don't love you or whatever, he asks me if I'm going to have our nightly chat before bed and then if I'm going to rub his back and sing him to sleep.<p>Now, if he really hated me, would he still want to talk to me and have me sing him to sleep? No.<p>It just hurts to hear it and he knows it. So the rule is that he can't say those things because they are rude and hurtful. Anyway the words mask some deeper emotion/feeling that need to be addressed in another more healthy way.<p>The down side of this is that if my 7 year old does not learn how to deal with this anger in the next 6 months then we may need to have him tested and treated for depression. Can you imagine - a 7 year old on prosac. <p>Divorce is ugly and upsetting to the children, no matter what my ExH wants to nievely believe, and ExH continues to deny that the kids are having any symptoms at all and if they are it's all MY fault.<p>Continue to be your son's safe haven. He obviously needs you alot right now. Just keep telling him how much you love him no matter where you are on his list. K

That sounds JUST like my son ... angry at me one minute, wanting his nightly lovin' the next ...<p>I try to remind him that it's okay to be angry, but it's not okay to hurt someone else because you're angry. I know I slip sometimes. It is so hard ...<p>I'm really glad my BF is on the list of people he likes. I'd hate to throw out a perfectly good BF because the kids didn't like him. ;} Actually, they've loved him since the beginning. My daughter told me recently that she wants me to marry him so he can be her Dad. I told her she already has a Dad. She said "Well, I still want (BF) to be my Dad." She didn't specify instead of or in addition to the Dad she has. I didn't ask.<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: Princess Buttercup ]</p>

See there..all 7 yr old boy's do this..LOL..<p>The abandonment issues sounds most likely..<p>My son also likes our night time talks and prayers
and I let him know I like those times too..and how
important they are to me..to feel close to him
and let him know I love him..<p>I used to pray for my kids before I went to bed at
night now I pray for them when they are there..they hear me pray about things that directly effect them and me..and they have become more open with me about things that bother them..
and I pray about those things for them so they
hear me talk to God about them..and they like that..it's actually helped them become more open
with me about their feelings..no matter if it's something at school..or something I've done..so they hear me pray about my own short comings as well..<p>I've also gotten in the habit when they tell me these things..or if I catch myself..I apologize to
them..this has helped them learn to apologize more for their own actions..

Oh, just wait until he stands in the hall screaming "I hate you, I hate you, I hate you! You ruined my life. I wanna go live with my dad!" Gives ya a warm, fuzzy.<p>My 12 yr old daughter's response to being grounded after skipping school to go joyriding with a bunch of kids and a paroled 20-something child molester.

oh, forgot to add that we only found out because the police stopped the 20-something for a traffic violation and arrested him and took d to station.

Its not just restricted to CP, but the parent that enforces boundaries and self responsibility, <p>not all CP are the strict ones, and i am way on the bottom of the list. . . the logic and manipulation that doesn't work must be working at the other house, because the stuff that they try is worthy of an Oscar. . . .<p>I get this one all the time:<p>Dad: Why are you so mad at me?
10 yo D: Because you wouldn't let me go to friends house on your night because friend can't come over any other night. . .
Dad: So you are mad at me whenever you don't get your way?
10 yo D:NO!!! Dad, you just don't understand!!!! (as she walks away. . . and i don't follow her!)
--------------------------
10 yo Daughter: Dad, do you want to play nintendo with me?
Dad: Sure, let me go to the bathroom first, and i will play.
Dad, returns from bathroom: OK, i am ready. . .
10 yo D: sorry dad, you were too slow in getting back from the bathroom, 13 yo B has the game now. .
Dad: Well, i find this unacceptable, as you offered to play, and then retracted it after i accepted it. . . if you don't follow through on the agreement, the TV goes off.
10 yo D: too bad, dad!
DAD: click, TV off. . .
10 yo D: (screaming at top of lungs) DAD, WHAT DID YOU DO THAT FOR! AND I DON'T CARE IF I GO TO MY ROOM.
Dad: grabs 10 yo daughter, and ushers to her room for yelling in the house. . . and told her that since she didn't care about going to her room, she will be there the rest of the afternoon. . .<p>1 hour later:
10 yo D: Dad, i'm sorry for yelling.
Dad: OK, that's a start, and you need to think about what you are going to say before you say it. . .
10 yo D: I never do that, i guess i really should. . . can i come out now?
Dad: Nope, as she watches 12 yo S and Dad play catch outside her window.<p>yeah, she loves her dad!
I don't think so!<p>the problem is that the educator has screwed up her life, marriage and family so much, and she is in such imagined competition with Dad for love from kids, that she will do just about anything to have the kids think she is a great mom!<p>and the best part is: she loves to talk to kids about poor behavior, but there are never any consequences, too scared to lose the love of the kids to impose consequences. . . .<p>wiftty

I am the CP of my two daughters and I know what you mean about not beign at the top of their list, especially after disciplining them. But you know what?, parenting is not suppose to be a popularity contest but an ongoing project of helping them shape their minds for healthy and productive lives as adults. If I succeed in this project then that in and of itself will be my reward, and any popularity list of theirs with me on top will be the cherry on top of the icing on the cake.<p>Joe

I hardly ever post anymore, and never on this board (I'm not divorced, don't "belong" here). But the topic grabbed my attention.<p>When my son first went away to college, he remarked that, of the guys in his dorm, the ones who absolutely DESPISED their parents were the ones whose parents let them do whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted. These guys were jealous of my son, since he actually enjoyed our visits, and didn't end up stressed out over them.<p>My husband traveled a lot when our kids were young, and I know it's really hard to stand up to them when you're all alone. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "My nice daddy would let me do that!" (never mind that Dad didn't know they were alive most of the time when he WAS home).<p>I finally started telling them that I took "Mean Lessons," and I got straight A's. You can't be a good mother if you don't. When they got tired of hearing about my Mean Lessons, they stopped complaining about how mean I was.<p>All I can say is, get yourself the best support system you can, but keep doing what you're doing. Your kids will appreciate it when they're responsible adults. They might even say so (both of mine did).

yep, i have told them that i did not sign on to be a dad for a popularity contest. . .<p>and i also told them, when they want me to do their homework for them, like the CP sometimes does, that i have already passed X grade, I don't need to do the work again. . . however, you need to do the work to pass the grade. . . . not me. . .<p>and when they complain about going with me on sunday morning to my stuff, because they like to sleep in, i tell them that saturday is my day to sleep in, (and then they start getting irritated because that's when they need to get to their activities.) life is not a one way street, nor are we equals - rank has privilege. . . <p>that's why you can't drive until 16, drink until 21. . . etc. . .<p>and as a mother i know reminded her H about what to say to her daughter after mom-daughter disagreement, and daughter was trying to get it out of dad, "We are the parental units here!"<p>
wiftty

I'm always tempted to pull a 'Roseanne' when d says she hates me. I want to say "well, then, my work here is DONE!" [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]