Hi, there are several of us that are in almost the exact situation:
WS is having A
WS says they want a divorce
WS is deep in Fog
WS says not in love with you, blah, blah, blah<p>BS is in Plan B or Tough Love (most of us are doing a modified Plan B - Plan B except when we have contact then revert to Plan A)
BS is limiting contact with WS
BS is working on improving self
BS is trying to focus on only what they can control (limit the rollercoaster ride)
BS still loves WS<p>This Post is to share daily events, to help, support and learn from each other, and to hopefully get advice, encouragement, and support from others that have been through this stage.

Well, since I started this thread, let me give you an update.<p>I have had very limited contact with WS since
Wednesday, seems like weeks instead of days,
absolutely no contact when we exchange the children, she has sent me several e-mails and I have not replied to any of them, none were of any importance. My D called me this morning at work, WS got on the phone after she was done, wanted to talk, I was friendly but limited the conversation to about 20 seconds. She sounded very sad when she said good-bye.<p>I truely feel that this is starting to have an effect of her, she is the one now confused. I feel my biggest problem has been that I have pushed for the last 9 months, to varying degrees, the more I pushed the move she moved away. Now I am going in the opposite direction, she is no longer moving away, she is at a stand still wondering what is going on. The big question is what direction will she go in. Only time and a good plan will tell.
Take care,
Dave

Seems like things are working for you. Keep it up.
Remember that with Plan B the WS is only accepted back on certain conditions (completely sever contact with OM...)<p>I have a more logistical question. <p>How should BS deal with any of the following when trying Plan *A*?<p>1. WS admits details of physical/emotional affair and still comes home to sleep, etc (because it is still WS' home too.) Does BS still attempt to meet WS' needs?
2. WS files for divorce
3. WS moves out
4. WS wants/attempts to sell the house and get their share of the equity to buy a new place
5. WS wants/attempts to separate bank accounts
6. WS wants BS' active friendly cooperation in the above (cooperating would be meeting a need perhaps but isn't it sending the message that BS is "okay-ing" the affiar or "giving up" and shouldn't be giving that message in Plan A)<p>Also, out of curiousity, what does BS do in each of the above if trying Plan B?<p>Thanks, <p>Heartbroken and a bit hopeful

davepr,<p>You wrote:
"My D called me this morning at work, WS got on the phone after she was done, wanted to talk, I was friendly but limited the conversation to about 20 seconds. She sounded very sad when she said good-bye.<p>I truely feel that this is starting to have an effect of her, she is the one now confused. I feel my biggest problem has been that I have pushed for the last 9 months, to varying degrees, the more I pushed the move she moved away. Now I am going in the opposite direction, she is no longer moving away, she is at a stand still wondering what is going on. The big question is what direction will she go in. Only time and a good plan will tell."<p>She IS confused, because you are in effect removing a "choice/option" from her. By taking yourself out of the game, via Plan B, she is on a one-track plan, if she leaves things as is. She will have to make a move toward you to engage you, again. That is what you want. You want your W to decide she misses you so much and then realizes how important and valuable your relationship is to her.<p>Keep up your Plan B. Although there is no guarantee, you seem to at least be making her ponder things as evidenced by her confusion.<p>Desiree

Desiree, I certainly hope so. She called me 2 more times today but I didn't answer, I always let it go into voice mail and check immediately, if it is my d, I call back immediately but I am not going to anser the phone to chat with her. I am starting to feel bad again regarding her, I know I can't be there for her yet, so I am sticking to the Plan no matter how painful and sad it is as I truely believe it is my ONLY hope.<p>
AANAST,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> How should BS deal with any of the following when trying Plan *A*?<p> 1. WS admits details of physical/emotional affair and still comes home to sleep, etc (because it is still WS' home too.) Does BS still attempt to meet WS' needs?
2. WS files for divorce
3. WS moves out
4. WS wants/attempts to sell the house and get their share of the equity to buy a new place
5. WS wants/attempts to separate bank accounts
6. WS wants BS' active friendly cooperation in the above (cooperating would be meeting a need perhaps but isn't it sending the message that BS is "okay-ing" the affiar or "giving
up" and shouldn't be giving that message in Plan A)<p> Also, out of curiousity, what does BS do in each of the above if trying Plan B? <hr></blockquote><p>1) Yes, contine to meet needs if you are in Plan A and do not LB when you here this information, you can express your feeling but do so with any angry outburts.<p>2) At this point you may want to consider changing to Plan B but that is your decision. It depends on the situation but I would think that if you are getting desperate and Plan A is not working and a divorce is nearing you may want to consider switching.<p>3&4&5) You can continue Plan A when she moves out,seperate Bank accounts, etc.<p>6) you can cooporate with this if you choose to, you don't have to say yes to everything in Plan A, epecially with selling the house. Just do so in a manner where you do not LB. Personally I would hold off on anything major like selling the house.<p>In Plan B, you could do pretty much the same thing but avoid contact with her, make reality set in for her, make OM support her Financial needs, don't sell the house, let OM put up the money.
Still no LBs. <p>I am not a Plan A expert, I didn't do well with Plan A, hopefully other will add to this with more experience than me.<p>Take care,
Dave

Aanast:<p>You might also want to consider consulting an attorney to find out what your W can or can not do (different state,different laws) and what you can do to protect yourself.<p>Joe<p>[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

STBXW is now having d call me several times a day, somewhere between 2-5 times a day for the last couple of days, this is very unusaul, I usually speak to d once a day when stbxw has her. I certainly enjoy talking with d, but stbxw tries to talk when d is done, I am avoiding that but no LBs. I am upset everytime I get off the phone with WS, I want no contact. Any adivce? I guess that i should send her in e-mail telling her that but I don't want to LB or drive her too far away, I think she is confused and wants some contact, I know that I can't give her the contact she wants.
Any advice,
Dave

davepr,<p>You wrote:
"Any adivce? I guess that i should send her in e-mail telling her that but I don't want to LB or drive her too far away, I think she is confused and wants some contact, I know that I can't give her the contact she wants."<p>RMA answer: Please do NOT email her and explain anything. Likewise, if you do talk, do not explain. You have already made yourself clear. Further explanaitions may lead to her trying to "negotiate" with you to keep both you and the OM in her life.<p>I am praying hard that you stand fast in your Plan B. It IS having an effect.<p>RMA

Thanks RMA, I have not e-mailed her or called her so I will stick to that, thanks for the advice.
Her e-mails to me are increasing too, she told me just today that she is reading Divorce Busters and finding it REALLY interesting... I guess that is good, I so much wanted to tell her that but I will stick to the plan. I only e-mail her regarding the childrens schedule. <p>I am doing better with this, I have not called her for an entire week today. (yea!) I have done everything with the kids schedule over e-mail.
I will continue to be short but friendly when she calls for now and NO explanation.<p>I know she left the kids with a baby sitter last night to go out with OM. My daughter told me this, I did not ask, if fact I didnot want to know but my 3.5 year old likes to tell me everything about
her day everynight. My stbxw also says that my
d misses me and want to go back to my house. I will get them back tomorrow but I think it shows how really spends time with them.
Take care,
Dave

Hello,
I have not posted on this site in over a year, but I am a regular lurker. I've been following the "tough love" threads for some time now and feel obligated to express and share the story of my journey to acceptance and happiness as a BS. First a quick overview:<p>-I'm a 32 year old father of 2, wife is 33. Son is 8 and daughter is 6. Married for 9 years.
-WS aka "fruit" had first PA in 97, one night stand. Shortly after, I found this site and started a half [censored] plan A.
-Fruit had another PA in 97, another one night stand. This time I really took a hard look in the mirror and took my plan A to heart.
-98 WS asks for separtion on Valentines day. We never phyically separted but emotionally she retreated.
-98 to 00, multiple EA's she called friendships.
-01, WS returned to college and had a PA with a 23 year old hockey player for a few months. Started marriage counceling after PA ended.
-01-02 In false recovery for over 1 year. I finally had enough of WS 20 year old attitude and college lifestyle and planned to move out. Night before I was to move out, WS best friend blows the whistle on her and informs me WS has been in contact with hockey player for over 4 months. WS now looking for apartment. Kids and myself in our home were we belonged all along, plan B in over drive.
-Less than 2 weeks after WS moves out she is dating and sleeping with hockey player again, but they're just friends.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I was told all the usual stuff, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you", "I'm in love with OK (other kid)", "I need to find myself", blah, blah, blah. You know the story.<p>This is just a sampling of my roller coaster ride called life. If you look up "been there, done that" in the dictionary there's a picture of me. Unless asked I won't get into anymore of my past details, what I want to share is were I am now.<p>After a long grieving period for the loss of my dreams I've come to a place of acceptance. After doing everything possible to improve myself and my marriage I accept that my wife and I may not be married much longer. A turning point for me was when I turned everything over to the big guy upstairs. Now I don't go to church or pray on a regular basis, but I do believe there is a higher spirit with the master plans we all look for. I looked up to the sky one day and said,"OK, I've done all I can do", it's in your hands now. Soon after, I started to look at my life in a different way. Instead of feeling cheated about my life I started to feel like I got what I deserved and needed. For example, I started a business without full support of my wife. At the time I thought I knew what was best for our family and this was our ticket to a happy life. Well things didn't go as planned. At times it seemed my business was cursed. Everything that could go wrong did. I blamed everyone and everything for the hardships. The worst part was my business was taking to much time away from what was most important to me, my family. I sank into a deep depression over my business and I never realized it. I felt like a failure. As I look back now my unsuccessful business was not a failure, but part of a plan. I got what I deserved and needed. I got pain, because I was causing my loved ones pain. I also got what I needed and always wanted. I have a great job with a sub-contractor I used to work with and I have the time with my kids I always wanted. If my business would had been successful I doubt I would be as happy as I am now because of the time demands.<p>When I applied this outlook to my life and marriage I became a new person. Accepting the things I can't change and changing the things I can has opened up an entire new world to me. Instead of waking up everyday with my chest full of anger an resentment for the choices my wife has made, I was able to forgive her. No longer did I hold her responsible for taking the pain away. I was the only one that could do it. By forgiving her it set my heart free to heal. Friends ask me, "how can you forgive what she has done?" My answer is simple I was tired of hurting. I was tired of the anger and resentment I felt. The only way I could get rid of those feelings was to let them go and look at the good things in my life and not dwell on the things I didn't have, like a loving wife. <p>I no longer fear lossing my wife and marriage. Divorce may be what I deserve and need. I know my kids an myself will be fine with or without her, because in the end we will be happy. If my wife is willing to commit completely to our marriage we might be able to keep our family together. If she chooses not to, then I'm free from her causing us anymore pain. Either way we win. <p>For so long I let my anger cloud what was good in my life. I have 2 of the greatest kids in the world, a nice home, a job I love and friends and family that love me. I have a lot to be thankful for.<p>As of now I consider myself a single dad. I plan on filing for divorce, but have let it be known to my wife that there is still a short time frame to return to our family if she chooses under certain conditions. I will not try to persuade her either way. She knows I've been fighting for our marriage for a long time now, but I will not let our sick cycle continue. I will not wait any longer for her. I am in a modified plan B, because of my kids. My wife comes over in the mornings and afternoons to get the kids to and from school. When I come home she has to leave, it's still hurts to look at her sabotage her own happiness, but more so I want her to see me as moving on, which I am. No longer will I let her taint all that is good in my life. I've become a very emotionally strong person. I've become the person I always wanted to be, a devoted, loving family man. My wife has even noticed, she is complimenting me frequently on my appearance, my parenting skills and the way I run our household. These are all things I've done for years but are just getting noticed now. All of a sudden I'm not the grand prize she won in hell.<p>Sorry for the rambling. Just remember in the end you will get what you deserve and need. You will be happy.<p>Sunrays and Saturdays,
Craig

Craig, wow, what an incredible story, it is sad but on the other other had you have such a positive attitude, your post meant alot to me, I all trying to gain this win-win attitude. I also spent way too much time working instead of being with my family, in December of last year I changed jobs, I step down for me, BUT I keep a 40 hour a week schedule, travel much less, AND I am so much closer to my children and such a better father.
If my stbxw and I never get back together, atleast all of this open my eyes and I responded to my family and I am a much better person today and for ever. Please keep us updated on your story, I will pray for you and your family tonight.
God Bless,
Dave

Hi Craig.<p>As a former BS I know the hurt of betrayal. I am a divorced father of two girls (D1-14, D2-11) and my xWW was a sexual addict with a taste for men with prison records. I tried my best to help her but she just laughed at my face and stated that she did not want to be a wife and mother, and so I divorced her and was granted sole custody of our daughters (a social worker had filed a report documenting her parental neglect of our daughters just prior to the divorce). That was two years ago and now I have moved on with my life and am in a relationship with a wonderful lady (herself a former BS) who my daughters love and respect.<p>As far as my xWW is concerned, she was shocked in the beginning because she thought that I would always be there to finance her lifestyle and couldn't beleive that the court deemed her an unfit parent [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . Since our divorced I have enforced the child support judgement against her and she now has to work for the first time in her life to help support our two daughters. Lately she has been approaching me with declarations of regret on how she hurt me and the girls and how she would like me to give her another chance to be the wife I deserved [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . Too bad, for her, that it is too little too late because like I said, I have moved on with my life and the only thing I feel towards her is sadness for her because she brought all this on herself. She also said (I verified this btw) that she is in counseling for treating her sexual addiction and that she feels a lot better about herself now that she has stopped the self destructive lifestyle she was leading [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I told her that was great news and that I was very proud of her for reclaiming her soul and that I and the girls would support any efforts in her fight to conquer her demons [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] She was very happy to hear that and cried a little. I sincerely wish with all my heart that my xW does conquer her demons because my girls would get the mother they deserve and I would be releived that if something were to happen to me, she could take over with the girls.<p>So you see, there is very much life after divorce.<p>Joe

Dave,
Thanks for good reference to the big guy he has always shown up when I needed him the most. Congrats on being the best father you can be. There is nothing more important. Hopefully one day soon you will feel in your heart the joy of letting go. I'll put a good word in for you. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Joe,
Bummer of a deal bud, but I think you will agree you got what you deserved and needed. You deserved to be loved and love found you. My wife is a behavioral addict. I hope for our kids and her sake she can rid herself of her demons. The hardest part for me was letting go of the rope I was holding for her. She has to hit bottom by herself. I trust that God will help her, she is not an evil person just a very emotionally immature women.<p>I'll be checking in, take care all.<p>Sunrays and Saturdays,
Craig

Craig,<p>THANK YOU! What a GREAT story! Your story is great because of only one thing - you have taken the lemons life tends to deal everyone and turned them into lemonade. The point is this: over the course of a lifetime, many "bad" things and disappointments come our way. We can choose to stay stuck in the VICTIM role, or we can choose to see ourselves as worthy and lovable and CLAIM a new life for ourselves!<p>I also agree that the act of forgiveness - a HARD< HARD thing to truly do - can bring much emotional and spiritual peace into the lives of each and every person here - BS or WS.<p>God bless you and yours, RMA

I think my WS is leaning towards coming back, the fog is definately clearing..<p> - Not sure why she thinks I act innocent, I have clearly admitted multiple times that I did not
meet her ENs and she was not my priority.. (maybe this is still some fog??)<p> - I plan to hold steady with Plan B for now, what do I do next? I will I know when it is time to change?<p>_ I did respond to this e-mail stating that I accept resonsibility for creating the enviroment for the A and for not meeting her ENs, and that I apolize for this.....<p>See email below for ws:
I know what the right choices are but they are very hard to realize esp.since you act like you have been innocent in all of this,like you are beyond fault, that is really hard to swallow. You know many people would look at what you have done very negatively as well, not just my behavior. I am not going to sit here and take all the blame for everything, don't you think I sit and wonder what it would be like to go back to where I was and what was familiar to me? Do you think I don't look at my children every night and day thinking about how much they miss what they had? I do, it takes a huge toll on me emotionally,but it is not as easy as you think it should be to just throw in the towel and forget all the things that have happened. I remember the good times but I also remember the ****ty times, which you are well aware of w/out me reiterating to you. Sorry, but we are both to blame for! ! ! all of this not just me and my choices, lousy or not so lousy, I have been reading more and more as much as time allows.

davepr,<p>Maybe she is reaching out to you in this email. You are NOT to blam for her having an affair. You are a part of what your marriage had become. Perhaps if you can express your own failings - lack of whatever - attention to her, time for the family, etc and any shortcomings you are currently working on - LBs, andgry outburst, whatever they are, she might feel more open to reconsidering your relationship and your marriage.<p>Desiree

Thanks RMA, I did send her an e-mail stating that i was responsible for and sorry for creating the environement for her to have an A, for not meeting her ENs, and for not
have my priorites straight. <p>She replied that she is going to discuss with our priest and go to confession.<p>There is still along ways to go for a recovery to even be considered, she is still with OM.<p>Her actions are starting to change too, she is being alot more friendly, when I came home from work on Wed, she and the kids were in the back yard playing, that has only happened a couple of time in the last 9 months. She is also spending more time with the kids..<p>How will I know if she is coming back becasue she is out of money, etc or that she truely wants to save this marriage? We have already had 2 false recoveries, she came back becasue it was "the right thing to do". I don't need another false recovery.<p>Does it make sense that she is still holding on to the OM at this point in time?<p>Thanks
Dave

Dave: be careful. Your W is doing something similar to what my W is doing. As I mentioned in my post, W requested to spend more time with kid this week. I am leery. I am watching her carefully. Our wives have to prove themselves. If they desire to work on marriages, it will take a long process. I jumped off of the rollarcoaster; besides, I do not like the MIND BINDER. During my senior prom night, I ventured out onto the BLACK monster. After the ups and downs, twists and turns, i threw up. It ruined my plans for a beautiful night of romance. Sorry about that guys and gals, bad memory flashback. The point I'm trying to make is if we continue to ride this drama of indecisions by our wives, our lives along with our children will become a whirlwind. Don't get me wrong, I want my W back, but I cannot and will not accept what she is now. She has to have mutual respect for my feelings. She cannot have her cake and eat it too. I am willing to do my part to meet her needs to the 100th degree, but I don't want a W that I cannot trust.

Gosh Dave, I don't see her e-mail as a sign of her coming back (or at least of coming back with a healthy attitude). The way I read her e-mail, she is full of anger, has not owned up to her actions, and is trying to find a way to blame things on you... <p>My ex gave me the same line despite making some overtures, which I (correctly) interpreted as a sign of being involved with her OM again. Like we discussed, WSs seem to always get very nasty towards the BS when their affairs flare up again. Anyway, it took my ex another six months or so to lose the anger and to basically admit that her behavior has been awful and to stop blaming me for her affair and her unhappiness.<p>Hang in there!<p>AGG

Hold your horses Dave. I agree, you might be reading too much into her actions and letter. Which I feel is a mistake. Your wife seems to still be justifying her actions. Not a good sign. I feel the first step to true recovery is losing the need to be right and she isn't there yet. <p>Dave if you have truely done all you can do to make yourself a better person then let your actions speak for you. Don't tell her what kind of person you are, show her by moving on without her. Acknowledge her efforts, but don't take them to heart. When she commits completely to your marriage she will be doing everything possible to make herself a better person first and a better wife second. You will be the focus of her life. <p>No more excuses just action.