Well.....You always think that it happens to everyone else. My W and I have been married for 14 years (happily, I thought). My employment required me to work several stints of long hours, even to the point of sometimes working 70+ hours non-stop (no kidding).
I am 41, she 32. No children. Occasionally she would complain about the very little time that we had to spend together, but I always thought that she understood that someone has to put the bread on the table.<p>I gave her anything she wanted. Literally. I am of the belief that the woman I love deserves the best. Never in our 14 years of marriage did I ever deny her anything, nor did I ever mention money. What wasn't needed for the bills was all hers to do with as she pleased. Nothing in my life was more exhilarating than watching her eyes light up with happiness.<p>Several months ago, she started complaining that there was no enough attention being paid to her. I explained that after a greuling 60 or 70 hour non-stop marathon it was hard to be very active in anything. Trust me....I did this probably over 100 times in our marriage. Not only that, but I was on call 24/7 and it seemed that it always happened at the most inconvienent times. But...As I explained to her, it was only temporary and that the rewards would be great in the long run. (They were).<p>Suddenly, one day she told me that she felt that her feelings for me had withered. She loved me very much, but was not in love with me. I was devastated. I talked her out of leaving, and she used the excuse that she had a one-night stand, (she thought I would shove her out), but I told her that my marriage was important to me, and that she was the best thing to ever happen to me. I also told her that I could somehow see where in a moment of weakness she slipped.<p>Well...trying to shorten this story, stupid ol' me decided that maybe she wasn't being completely truthful. I tried to put that thought out of my mind, because knowing each other routines, I could not possibly figure out how she could be having an affair. But a couple strange numbers came up and lo and behold....those phone calls were maybe once a month for the past 6 months. Curiosity set in hard.<p>I confronted her, and she finally confessed to having a year long affair with her lover. They were meeting each other after work, for 15-20 minutes, which explained why she never was later than usual. The times they were intimate were the very few few times that she went shopping by herself. She always took her close sister or her mother with her the majority of the times, and the trips she took alone were few and far between. She said that she had met him at motels maybe 8-10 times during the course of the affair, which seems to coincide with what I remember her going alone. <p>Now for the good part....All of this confessing and discussing was going on at her parent's home, (she had been there 3 days to "clear her head". Imagine my surprise when her parents and sister began to have tears well up in their eyes (they have always treated me as their own), and confessed that they had known the whole time! I was devasated. Not to mention that during the past year that we had went on several "Family" vacations. They said that the most difficult thing they ever had to do in their life was look and me, and see a wonderful man that they felt enormous sympathy for.<p>Well...she is still at her parent's trying to sort things out. She still loves me, but not like she should (she says) ( Her sister confided in me that the 2 days I offered no contact with her drove her nuts). Our home is next to her parents, so we see and speak occasionally. I am still living at "our" house.<p>When we do speak, and when the conversation turns to us, she reminds me that she needs space. She said that she can't come home until all of her comes home. I understand that, but there is no dates, no going to the store, or anything simple just to be with each other. She also mentions divorce, and will take no help from me. But she cannot say it is over, either. Just need time.<p>How can this be fixed, and our love strengthened again with no "alone, emotional, or physical" contact between us? This is driving me crazy! Even with what has happened, I still love her better than anything in this world, and would give my life for her. I am willing to accept the past, because I cannot change it, and live from this moment on. But I wish it to be with her.
I have also read between the lines, and figured out that she is quite sure that I can never forgive her, nor love her the way I used to. Her way of thinking seems to be just to end it all, and it all will go away. I told her it will never go away unless we try to fix it. Because she will always wonder what might have been.<p>She swears that the OM is out of her life. He is married, with a 4 year old, and when all of this blew up and his wife was informed, the OM told my WS that he could and would not leave his family.<p>What should I do? Keep gently and softly reminding her how much I love her and forgive her, or should I not be very agressive and let her wonder about me?<p>I need help! I want to spend the rest of my life with her, and think that it is possible if the right road is taken.<p>Well....as far as me needing to change, I did that about 1 year ago. For the first month or so everyone, and the W especially, noticed a huge change in my attitude. But...mostly it was due to a more normal working schedule, and because of the past times that we were unable to basically have a lie at home, I decided to really put the most effort into it that I could.<p>But...at the same time I was trying to better our marriage, she was starting the A! How in the heck was she going to see and appreciate what changes had been made in our marriage, when her attention was on the OM?<p>We spoke tonight. We still are using a joint account, I still retrieve the bills and such from the mail, and give her the payroll checks. She still handles the finances, you might say. We own a 2001 Chevy Tahoe, and a 1991 S-10, and all she will drive is the S-10. She says that she may as well get used to it because she can't afford the Tahoe. I tried to nicely explain to her that that was a moot point, and to drive the good vehicle. I reminded her that we are still carrying joint insurance, so ride in comfort.<p>She refuses any help from me. The old vehicle she is driving was making a noise, and she wouldn't let me look at it to see what was wrong (I am a hobbyist mechanic). She absolutely wants no help at all from me.<p>She still maintains in our conversations that it is impossible for us to have a happy marriage. She says that her feelings for me have gone, and that they won't come back. She says that between what feelings she has lost, and the A she had with the OM, that she sees no hope for us to be man and wife. Its been 2 weeks now, but she still hasn't filed for divorce.<p>I know a lot of this is a "she-said" post, but that is because I let her do all the talking. Also, I am hoping that one of you can see more clearly than I, since I am in the middle of her "fog".<p>I keep reminding her that I love her more than anything, and she responds that there is no doubt in her mind that I do. However, she says it is not fair to lead me on, and I told her that the road I follow, if it is after her, is my choice, and she should only worry about getting her feelings straight.<p>Then...always in the conversations, there comes the dreaded "I want to be good friends with you no matter what". She says that we can love each other, care for each other, help each other, but not remain married to each other. I keep reiterating that I love her, and want to work this out. I try to explain that we cannot work it out being apart. I asked her to remember back when we first met, not knowing each other, or knowing whether to trust each other, but we still had time together and eventually fell in love.<p>Sometimes this is the routine and I get very depressed and feel that working this out is hopeless. After being with her for over 14 years, I know her stubborness well. But...then maybe tomorrow it looks a little brighter, because her comments are not as drastic and concrete in her mind but rather it seems she is listening and thinking about what I am saying.<p>This is driving me crazy! I am about to rush to Plan B. But...I know that is a tricky situation. Could go either way, and may be the straw that breaks the camels back.<p>Please, Please ! Can someone help me analyze what the heck is going on here? I think there is hope, and have told her so. I told her that if we both wanted it badly enough, that we could fix it. She says it is too late...too much damage already been done by both of us. But then...here comes the little comments such as "Would you go out with me on a date if we were divorced?". And the often one (some days) "Who knows how it may be 6 months from now"<p>So...One conversation I see a glimmer of hope (and right now a glimmer seems as large as the ocean), and the next conversation it's one of those "There is no way".<p>OK.. all you experienced ones out there....Give me some much needed advice! And God only knows how much I appreciate finding this site and all of you.<p>HCII

Hear hcii,<p>I am in a bad mood today, but to see such a loving post...she's a fool to let you go in the long run!<p>I know your days are long right now and may seem hopeless at times, but honestly, 2 weeks is a drop in the bucket.<p>I am not the best at giving advice, but I would suggest the gentle reminders, probably not every single day to allow her some space to miss you, but often enough that she sees your consistency and love for her.<p>You are very strong for your forgiving attitude. I wish I had the love that you do. This may take a while, so please, hang in there. I would think that plan B is too early because she has already been forced to give up the other man and is trying to cope with that. I would think that another couple or threee weeks with her family can't hurt and then see if you can coax her to come home where you can continue to show her your love.<p>I know you hurt. Find support where ever you can.<p>LearningLife

Hi HCII,

My situation is a little different from yours, but I'll try to respond as best I can. My response is long, and it may seem a little harsh. No, it is not "your fault" that your W had an A, but it is your fault that her needs were not met - leaving her vulnerable to an A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:
<strong>My employment required me to work several stints of long hours, even to the point of sometimes working 70+ hours non-stop (no kidding).
...
Occasionally she would complain about the very little time that we had to spend together, but I always thought that she understood that someone has to put the bread on the table.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hcii, you need to fix this. Get a different job if you have to. Get on a 40-hour workweek. Quit and do nothing if you have to. You've got to have time with your W. You have to treasure time with your W.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>
I gave her anything she wanted.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Apparently not. Probably, it wasn't a "thing" that she wanted it all - but a person, a relationship.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>
Literally. I am of the belief that the woman I love deserves the best. Never in our 14 years of marriage did I ever deny her anything, nor did I ever mention money. What wasn't needed for the bills was all hers to do with as she pleased. Nothing in my life was more exhilarating than watching her eyes light up with happiness.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't you see? You were really doing this for yourself. Not for her. You were doing it for that "exhilaration". Look at your wording "The woman I love". Is that the only thing distictive about her? - the fact that you love her? - that she's "your woman". Are you trying to impress the rest of the world with how well you take care of your woman?. Maybe I'm off base here, because I don't know your situation well at all - so please forgive me - I don't mean to offend you.

Also, while you were doing this, you were making her feel dependent. I recommend you do some reading. Try "Love must be tough", by Dobson, but also ... I can't remember the name of it <sigh>. Maybe it is in one of Harleys articles. Somebody did a study and found that in affair relationships, things tended to be more "fair" - more shared responsibility - than in the marriages of the affairee. What I'm trying to say is that by denying your W's need to be a responsible person, you have deprived her of something she needs. She needs responsibility. She needs to be treated as an equal. She needs to share in the burdens.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>
Several months ago, she started complaining that there was no enough attention being paid to her. I explained that after a greuling 60 or 70 hour non-stop marathon it was hard to be very active in anything. Trust me....I did this probably over 100 times in our marriage. Not only that, but I was on call 24/7 and it seemed that it always happened at the most inconvienent times. But...As I explained to her, it was only temporary and that the rewards would be great in the long run. (They were).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you serious, man?!!!! Do you still not get it?!!! The reward for all that - is that your W had an affair! When you "explained" it to her, you just were ignoring her cries for help. Now, maybe I'm being a little harsh here, and if you think so, please tell me, 'cause I have no right to tell anybody how to live. But... (here it comes), I think you were doing all that work for yourself - because you need to feel important, because you need to feel that you are essential at work. She was telling you what was important to her and you were ignoring it.

Let me give a metaphorical example, using physical needs instead of emotional needs. Let's suppose that physical needs are limited to Air, Water, Food and a safe place to sleep. Metaphorically speaking, you were giving her food, and maybe water, but no air. (And let's not talk about the safe place to sleep). In the same way, if she needed your presence, your attention, no amount of financial support would take it's place. It's all about balance, man. Each person (including your w) has several emotional needs - some more important than others, but all essential to some degree. To make her happy, you have to meet them all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>When we do speak, and when the conversation turns to us, she reminds me that she needs space. She said that she can't come home until all of her comes home. I understand that, but there is no dates, no going to the store, or anything simple just to be with each other. ... How can this be fixed, and our love strengthened again with no "alone, emotional, or physical" contact between us? This is driving me crazy! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe this is her way of trying to get through to you - her way of repaying you for all of your neglect.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong> Even with what has happened, I still love her better than anything in this world, and would give my life for her. I am willing to accept the past, because I cannot change it, and live from this moment on. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you're talking!! Read all the books - start with the info on this site. Try to remember the things that made her happy when you were first falling in love. Try to figure out her emotional needs. Do them whenever you get a chance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>
We still are using a joint account, I still retrieve the bills and such from the mail, and give her the payroll checks.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you keep doing the same thing, you will keep getting the same result. Reevaluate why you do this. Is it really for her, or for your own feelings of self-esteem?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>We own a 2001 Chevy Tahoe, and a 1991 S-10, and all she will drive is the S-10. She says that she may as well get used to it because she can't afford the Tahoe. I tried to nicely explain to her that that was a moot point, and to drive the good vehicle. I reminded her that we are still carrying joint insurance, so ride in comfort. She refuses any help from me. The old vehicle she is driving was making a noise, and she wouldn't let me look at it to see what was wrong (I am a hobbyist mechanic). She absolutely wants no help at all from me.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LISTEN TO HER!!!!!!!!!

Again, you are trying to "explain" to her what you think is good for her. This is disrespectful. Respect is more important than a good car. Believe me. You cannot buy her affection.

I'm guessing that you do a lot of "teaching" your wife - "explaining" things to her. Stop it! When somebody is always "teaching" or "explaining" things to you, what do you feel? You feel like a child - like some lesser being. Do you want your W to feel like a child? Surely she will resent it! You are not there to teach your wife. This is one of the classic "no-no"s.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>Its been 2 weeks now, but she still hasn't filed for divorce.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is no time at all, man. Patience and consistency wins this game... and it's not a game.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:<strong>I keep reminding her that I love her more than anything,...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm. While, I would agree that it is good to tell her that you love her - as long as she is willing to hear it, I'm a little troubled by your wording. "I keep reminding her..." sounds more like you are nagging her, than reassuring her. It's as if you have some expectation that if she knows that you love her, that she must respond in some way. Maybe I'm wrong. Please think about your attitude - about why you are "reminding" her of this.

Well, HCII, if you are still reading this and you want more of my opinions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> let me know. I think I've written enough for now.

This is probably the harshest post I have ever made to the victim of an affair. I hope I have not offended you.

I believe you have a good chance to turn this around. Don't give up! I know it is painful, but it WILL get better.

-AD

P.S. Do you have kids?

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

No, AD....You have not offended me.<p>And no....We have no children.<p>But after reading your reply, I had to get out and away by myself and cry and cry. Where were you 5 years ago? Your post made me see things as if for the first time in my life I was actually looking at things through her eyes.<p>I can honestly say that in 41 years that I have never felt as much shame as I felt after reading that. You took a syringe the size of a semi-truck and shot a dose of reality in my veins like I have never seen. For that, I thank you.<p>Fixing the long working hours earlier on in my life was rather difficult. See, I live in the Appalachian area where the poverty rate is higher than anywhere else. Mediocre jobs are few and far between, and unemployment is VERY high here. I had mentioned us moving away several times, as while we were on vacations I would see good paying openings that I could have had, but....this is home to her. She did not relate very well to the prospect of moving away. Although I am not trying to place the blame on anyone else, there was a fear factor in just walking away from a middle income job.<p>As to the joint accounts, there has been no mention of that in our discussions. I am not going to ask her to sever that tie, and she has not offered. Either she will stop and ask if any bills came today, or call and ask. She also knows when payday is, and infers about that also. I may be wrong, but my thinking is that she will give everything back (checks, credit cards, etc.) when she is ready. I do not want to push the issue any farther apart than it is already. Just last night she left some spending money for me on the bar at home while I wasn't there. She could have left everything else but didn't. I interpret that as a sign that she is not ready yet to actually sever any and all ties between us, and that is the one thing that keeps me sane. So, you are probably right in saying that is for my self-esteem, but I am not going to demand otherwise.<p>After reading your reply, I began to think. I began to think about what I would change if I could go back in time. Oddly enough, thinking about changing the fact that she had an affair never entered my mind. I wish that I could go back 5 or 6 years and kick the [censored] of the "man"
that denied a wonderful person, my wife, of true happiness that she truly deserved.<p>We spoke for quite some time last night, and for once I actually felt depressed and heartbroken for the pain of not what I am currently feeling, but rather I can truly say that my emotions were of sadness for her.<p>We chit-chat, and I let her bring the subject of our relationship up. At some point she did, and I remained peaceful and calm. I know she sees a new me, and will indiscreetly say so without actually being blunt about it.<p>She still maintains that she really sees no hope for us to maintain a happy marriage after ecerything that has happened over the last 2 or 3 years. She comments this in a mild manner, with signs of sympathy towards me. Knowing her as I think I do, I really believe sometimes that she is sincere, and in her mind she probably is.<p>So...for the sake of argument...is it common for a spouse to really believe that their feelings are truly gone, and no way to revive them, but yet be in the "fog" and either they are just fooling themselves, or either "wish" they were gone when there is a "spark" still there?<p>I am able to not place a lot of credence in comments made during hurt and anger, but when the mood is somber and sincere, what are the odds of her being mistaken with her true feelings? I am at odds over this, and it causes my hope to weaken very much. That is basically why I am here, is for the support. But....If anyone can be on the outside looking in and give advice or recommendations, good or bad, that is what I need.<p>AbandonedDad, your reply has changed me. I now want to have her in my life so I can make her happy without ANY rewards for myself, but rather because of my love I want her to have all the glory and peace and happiness. What other people think doesn't matter. That is not an issue, now. I now want her to experience the love that I have, hopefully with me. So...to sum it all up, I want her to have what she wants to have, and if she does, I think that mine will come naturally.<p>God Bless all of you, and remember me in your prayers.<p>HCII

hi hcii, <p>Your relationship fits most people here that has been betrayed, just stay encouraged you'll find that your WW will tilt back and forth. My W said the same exact things about trying to be friends meaning " I want that over there OM' I need this over here to live and be secured H"....<p>I discovered this letter after her 1st affair, she never gave it to me I found it..This day she is still in an affair saying the same things..<p>Here's a piece of a letter I found from year 2000 that my wife wrote she was going to give me, she don't know I have this so keep this a secret . <p>Letter:<p>Well, were faced now with a decision. We knew it would have to be made. You're right there is no communication, a lot of distance. Lets not pretend anymore. I don't want to fight. No one in this house is happy. We're not teenagers anymore. We can no longer fulfil each others needs. I'm not happy and hav'nt been for a long time. I've express to you on several occasions. You can't be happy either. I'm not the wife you need. I feel awful because while I may have once been her, I've changed and you've changed. With each effort I make to become her I dislike myself that much more because its not who I've become. We have diff ideas about many things. Thats not good or bad it just shows we are to very different people.

Hi hcii,<p>Sorry to read about your situation. Sounds like your WS can&#8217;t forgive herself and is having difficulty justifying her actions, etc. Some things she&#8217;ll just need to figure out on her own. It is a tight rope for you to walk, you need to hold her accountable for her decisions and actions, but you don&#8217;t want to push her away and you still love her very much. <p>My WS has said her mother told her I was too good for her daughter. They have always had an up and down relationship. Now WS says that maybe her mother was right. This doesn&#8217;t have anything to do with my standing or worth, but has everything to do with my W&#8217;s self image. <p>Get into good counseling for both of you. You&#8217;ll both learn a lot about each other and yourselves. No offense, you sound like a good guy, but you need to seriously look at yourself too throughout this process. All the money and stuff that someone may provide a spouse can&#8217;t replace good communication, intimacy and time spent together. Best of luck > Karl

hcii,<p>I didn't intend to hit you so hard. I'm a little surprised at myself.<p>I understand about the job situation being tough. Now may not be a great time to propose a move, but you might gently probe her about the possibility. In addition to getting you to a place where you can find a decent-paying job without killing yourself, it would get her away from OM.<p>It's very very hard to keep up your spirits - to keep going in the face of all of this. But, if you keep up the good work, you can succeed. I think you have a good chance.<p>-AD<p>[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: AbandonedDad ]</p>

Hmmmm, that means that she was 18 when you married, and must have dated before then.<p>OK, so she might be having the beginnings of a MLC, the reliving of adolescence that one may have missed for reasons of following someone else's life expectancy plan, ie,, the typical get married right away scenario. . . .<p>its sounds as though she is getting restless from her being alone so much, and is beginning to doubt that she wants to live like this for the rest of her life. . . since she missed her wildchild days of late teenager, early adult, she is trying to find her true self in her individuation process. . . .<p>i say, you need to be the strong silent type right now, work only 40 hours per week, regardless of the loss in income, and start being patient and only asking questions. . . no teaching, lead by example. . meaning only the socratic method. . . make suggestions about what to do together, family stuff, and if she says no, you can decide to go by yourself, and that then she will wonder if she should go because that is what she would have liked. . . .<p>Also, you need to give yourself a time limit, maybe 1 year of trying to make changes in yourself, for the better, and being sensitive to her needs. . . without any thanks expected. . .<p>so, what's next? order any books by the harleys?<p>wiftty