Update: I am out of town on business this week, D called to say good night last night, STBX got on the phone ) said it was over with OM. She broke it off, said she wanted a better life for herself than OM can provide. Says she is not sure if she wants to work on the marriage, she has fallen out of love with me and not sure if she can get the feelings back. Now what? Do I stay in Plan B to protect myself? Or do I switch to Plan A to help her get her feelings back for me and risk being hurt again? I think I am leaning towards Plan B. Advise is welcome. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Plan B all the way.<p>You know something Dave? It's too bad that when she told you that she is not in love with you and does not know if she wants to work on the marriage,you did not reply 'I feel the same way too'. I would bet that little statement would have blown her away and you would be receiving more e-mail and phone calls from her.<p>I get the feeling that she wants to dangle the carrot of her leaving OM in front of you to see if she can make you end the no contact rule of plan B. Don't fall for it Dave because it smells of manipulation. She knows how much you've wanted OM out of the picture so she throws you the dubious bone that she's finished with him but still tell you that she does not want you or the M, in the hope that you will be so grateful that you will once more go back to plan A and restore financial support to her and thus continue to live the single lifestyle, with any OM she chooses, while receiving the benefits of a married woman.<p>What a scam.<p>Joe<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

Hi Daver, what a rollercoaster, at this point if she is not repented or broken at what she's done, I would say she is just on a ADDICTION LOW from OM, based on history...><p>I remember my WW saying " coming out of these things is like a drug addicted" and said do drug addicts stop all at once?..I said some do, then she said well you just got to give addicts time, I said some addicts get help, but she said I'm doing this my way, well affairs continued in secret, I love you but not in love with you thing.<p>This was shortly after our final counseling session....1 year later now, she says "Do you think I tried to do all that stuff?" yet this day she still has OM in secret on the DL[down low] until our DV-D today, I'm sure he's going to surface boldy now.<p>ANyway I'd do plan B, but keep in mind that a person that wants the relationship will do everything to establish trust and prove to you their sincerity, just watch and pray and give her what she needs, she got to become a giver as well.

excuse me for not knowing your detailed situation, if this does not apply, please ignore.<p>Do you have a list of hostage demands that you require of her to release your hostage? <p>ok that is attention grabbing, and if you think about it, you are holding your emotions as a hostage to the situation. . . and rightly so. . . and she is trying hostage negotiations to get you to release them on her terms. . .. . .<p>if you don't have a list of demands (requirements), you need one. . . if you do, you need to write them down and make sure she has a copy by hand delivering it to her. . . . preferably with a witness to make her responsible to more than just you.<p>Basically, that is what you are asking of her, and since you are not informing her of the structure for your emotional safety, from your point of view, she appears to be yanking your chain. . .<p>Once you deliver that message, and not only is giving up the OM a requirement with a written letter approved by you and mailed by you, but actions that will build trust with you, such as carrying a cell phone, and you having random check ups with it, all phone numbers changed, all email accounts passwords available, incoming and outgoing numbers listed, with caller ID, minimum 15 hours a week time together. . . . marriage counseling. . . not going anywhere without someone you can trust. . . and able to check up with them . . .<p>When she has relationship talks with with you, all you need to ask is whether she is willing to agree to your terms. . .she needs to decide. . . then when she is willing to commit to your requirements, you can return to plan A. . . .<p>
wiftty<p>[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

hi Dave-<p>Keep up with Plan B. Your wife is a manipulator and I agree she may just be doing this to see if she still has you hooked. Work on you. If she wants you she will committ. Also, what do you want? What are you prepared to do/put up with to get it? <p>Take care and God bless!<p>K

I'd say stay in PLan B until/unless she both wants to work on the M and is willing to agree to a MB-style plan to restore the M...including counseling.<p>Kathi

Thanks everyone, right now she is very depressed, going through the withdraw from OM. I don't think now is a good time for any dicussions with her but I liked your suggestions. For now I am going to stay with Plan B, I feel if I go back to Plan A she will run back to OM, she needs more reality and some time for herself to heal and reflect on what has happened. I spoke with her sister today, OM called her 14 times last night before she took the phone off the hook, WS did not answer, sister said WS was going to change her home and cell phone numbers. I guess that is a start. I tried to call today to talk to my D and check on them all, OM is very controlling and the situation has me very concerned, I am unfortunately out of town this week, WS would not even talk, says she want to be left alone and does not want to speak with anyone. I will continue Plan B for now.
Thanks for the advise,
Dave

You said it's the third time... Do you see a difference this time compared to the other times?<p>AGG

davepr,<p>First off, why did you call her if you are still in Plan B? You can't keep doing this or you are going to blow the entire idea behind Plan B.<p>Since you have had multiple failed reconciliations before, whay are your conditions and terms this time? What does your W have to do FIRST before you will be so willing and eager to let her back in to possibly tromp on your heart, again?<p>You MUST call Steve and get his advice on appropriate boundaries and conditions before you even discuss things with your W. If you don't raise the bar, so to speak, you are just setting yourself up for a repeat disappointment.<p>Please call Steve today!<p>RMA

Dave:<p>Am I wrong, or is this the same WW that asked you to let her get her tubes tied on your insurance just, what, 2 weeks ago?<p>A lot is happening. This may be a very good sign, but you do need to stick to your guns with your plan B. <p>It's obviously a pushbuttony remark, to tell you it's over, but she's not sure she wants your M, either. Why bother telling you?<p>Hang in there. In the end, it's entirely up to you whether you want her back (when or if she says she wants to commit to your M) or not. But be strong about where you're at and what you need to see from her before you give in to any of these button pushing remarks.

Dave,

Be very careful... and do not let your guard down.

My stbxw has done this to myself and my family countless times... and as I think you know my siutation, we have not heard from her in a month and counting.

The last time she came back, she promised that things were going to be different... you probably have heard it before too.

I fell for it, my children however did not. For some reason they knew she was lying.

I didn't utilize plan B well, in fact I was almost begging her to come back (big mistake).

Nothing on her part had changed, in fact to this day, we think the only reason she came back was because she became pregnant by the OM, and he didn't want anything to do with her. Well she got her abortion (financed by me with her forging checks from my account without my knowledfe of course) went back to him.

In other words, what I am saying is watch out for her motives. If you believe her motives to be sincere, then go with it, and build from there, but don't let your guard down until you can without a doubt know she is sincere. Otherwise, you are going to take an emotional hit that is going to be devastating.

It's hell to start from scratch again, just when you thought things were going good.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong (but not in my case)

Wallace

okay, okay, Plan B until she proves herself and agrees to the boundries. I am going to call Jennifer Harley tomorrow and schedule another session.<p>What is different this time than before?
The first time she came back she said that this was the right thing to do (according to everyone except herself) Second time she came back was because she could not do this to the children (still loved the OM).<p>Now this time she says:
- OM did not turn out to be what she expected
- OM thinks WS spends too much time with the children
- WS is embaressed to take OM out in public, he uses very bad language in public
- WS say she cannot see a future with OM
- WS says she wants a better life for herself
- OM is controlling
- Their personalities do not match
- WS says she has lost almost everything - has no money, no friends, lost her house, 50% custody of children, no insurance, etc
- WS is tired of living a lie<p>So the big difference is this time she is doing it for herself and i am NOT begging for her to come back. I truely think she has hit bottom, realized what OM is really like, now she is really seeing it as he won't leave her alone. I think the A has died on it own, it has been almost a year since the A started, 11 months. I also feel she is coming out of the fog and thinking much clearer.<p>Two other points, OM wanted her to stop taking
Paxil and to spend less time with her children. I think that had a major impact on her, she now knows what OM was in this A for.<p>I know I need to set some boundries IF we are going to work on our marriage, we are NOT at that point in time yet, atleast I am not. She will have to agree to everything for me to try it again.
For now, I will continue Plan B, no more phone calls to her.<p>Thanks
Dave

Dave:<p>"WS is embaressed to take OM out in public, he uses very bad language in public" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm picturing the guy walking through a mall, shouting obscenities... Too funny!<p>Dave, it sounds like you're doing the right things by being cautious. It'd be great if she's really coming out of the fog. <p>I wish you both the best!

Dave,<p>There was one thing that I noticed that she didn't bring up in your post, that makes me sense you should stick with plan B.<p>I didn't get the sense of a statement from your wife "that she realized that what she did was wrong, and that she has come to the realization, that she truly loves you", and wants to make your marriage work. It was only statements that pertained to what the OM wanted or didn't want.<p>I only got the sense of feelings that were not working for her at this point in time.<p>I think that you need to start hearing statements from her that pertain to you and her putting your marriage back together, and how you and her can accomplish that.<p>Don't get me wrong though, I think it's great, that things are not working out with her and the OM. It is a great starting point to begin to rebuild your relationship with your W... but be careful. Don't jump into anything too quickly, I know that mistake all too well, from personal experience.<p>It looks like you might be making some progress with your WS.<p>Stay the course, it appears to be working to your advantage.<p>Wallace

Have you delivered the Plan B letter yet?<p>If not, she does not know what she needs to do to regain your communication. . .<p>if you have not, you are not being fair. . . in Plan B with her NOT knowing what is necessary to regain communication. . . <p>have you sent your Plan b letter yet?<p>wiftty

Wiftty, Plan B letter was sent a couple of months ago, she knows what she needs to do.<p>Wallace,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I didn't get the sense of a statement from your wife "that she realized that what she did was wrong, and that she
has come to the realization, that she truly loves you", and wants to make your marriage work. It was only
statements that pertained to what the OM wanted or didn't want. <hr></blockquote>
She has realized that the A was wrong and is taking more and more responsiblity for it, still some blamming on me. As far as the realization that she loves me, NOT there yet, although when I dropped off the children this am she asked for a hug. She states that she wants to get those feelings of love back for me that she lost by me not meeting her ENs, therefore the delimina of Plan A versus Plan B, my Plan A was not the best.<p>2Long, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'm picturing the guy walking through a mall, shouting obscenities... Too funny!<hr></blockquote> from what I understand this is not too far off... I can't believe it took her 11 months to come to this realization..<p>I am gaining some confidence that is it truely over with OM... not sure if we are going to rebuild our marriage or not yet... one step at a time...<p>Trying to hang tough,
Dave

Just so that you are not too hard on yourself...<p>I'm glad you didn't do the best Plan A. I think sometimes Plan A can give someone a false sense of what recovery will be like. It is NOT easy. You are human and you are going to make mistakes. Sometimes I think people do Plan A and don't allow for mistakes which is naturally part of being human AND is necessary for people to deal with in a "real" relationship!

Thanks for the update,
as I had said in my first post,
i was not up on your status.<p>I agree with the others, you stay in Plan B but you have to listen to her a little tiny bit here and there in order to gauge reality, or lack thereof.<p>wiftty

Hey Dave,

Having been through this a number of times with my WS (and you know where I am situated now),
I'll give you my opinion, based on my past experiences.

This is a high wire act that your WS is walking, and you are her saftey net.

My WS always knew that when she walked the high wire, that the safety net was always there (me).

Had she known that the safety net was not there to help break her fall, would she of walked it?
Most likely she would not of... she would of thought very long and hard about walking that tight rope without that net being there... knowing that if she slipped and fell off, it would probably end in tragedy.

My WS is now walking the high wire again, the only difference is, is there is no safety net there for her this time... she doesn't know that the net has been removed... she still thinks it's there.

Would she still walk the high wire if she knew this in advance this time around? She probably would, thinking that eventually, the net will be put back in place before she falls.

My point being, is I see a very similiar type of an arrangement (correct me if I am wrong). She is walking the high wire (WS) and you are the safety net.

She may be checking to see if the safety net has been put into place... and if it is back in place, then she may feel safe walking the high wire for a lot longer. However if she feels the net is there, you need to let her know without a doubt, that there is no net there, and mean it... and accept whatever happens from there to happen.

I'm rambling I know, and I could be way of base on this one. So if I am, just disregard it.

Keep with plan B, until you start seeing more from your WS.

Good Luck!

Wallace

Thanks Wallace, that was a good anology.
We spoke briefly on Friday before she left for her sisters for the weekend, she made a reference to us "working on the marriage" I corrected her and stated that I was not ready to work on the marriage at this point in time. She gave me a hug and told me to have a nice weekend and would see me on Monday. She called last night to say goodnight, haven't spoken to her today. I am trying to be nice/plan A when we do have contact but I am not initiating any of the contact with her/Plan B. So, I guess I am kind of doing both Plan A and Plan B depending on the situation.
OM continues to call her daily, she doesn't answer the phone, however he is leaving voice mail.
I am acutually gland he is calling at this point in time because he is LBs, she wants her space right now to work on herself, sure glad to see her recongize that she needs to work on herself.
She did state that we we work on the marriage we may need to move out of this state, I would hate to leave my job but a very small price to pay to get my marriage back. I am also glad to hear her say she would be willing to move.<p>Take care, Hope you are having a good weekend, Hang in there with your tough plan B
Dave