Help me process this, please?<p>For those of you who don't know me, my sig line has the essential details.<p>Last night, I attended my son's 8th grade class's production of "Fiddler on the Roof." Attending with me were my Aussie au pair and her Mum who is visiting from Canberra.<p>Upon arriving at the school, we saw my XW arriving with OM in tow. This is the first of my son's functions - school, sports, or otherwise - that she's brought him along when she knew I would be there. She knows very well that I despise this creature's involvement in my son's life, yet I know I can do nothing about it.<p>A little more background: My XW has done a masterful job of convincing my son that her relationship with OM is completely normal - that the breakups of our respective marriages had nothing to do with their current relationship, and much to do with me and OM's XW. As a result, my son tries to remain neutral in matters regarding this mess, although he's being directly affected. He has told his counselor that he feels caught in the middle - knowing I "hate" - his words, not mine - OM and knowing I object to them being around each other, yet trying to please his mother at the same time.<p>We enjoyed the production and I avoided a confrontation. There is no question that my XW saw us and knew who the strange woman was - Taz's Mum - yet she didn't even make the effort to introduce herself to her (Mum) even though Taz has been living with us and helping to care for <son> for almost a year now. We skipped the after-show reception to avoid a confrontation in my son's presence. Later he called me and asked why I wasn't there. Now I feel bad for letting XW and OM affect my decision.<p>I currently practice Plan B behavior as part of my recovery. I limit my communication with XW to matters only involving my son, and most of that is accomplished via e-mail and voice mail. She knows I have no interest in being friends with her yet, and she doesn't challenge this.<p>Here's what I can't process: How are my XW and OM able to do this? What I mean is, what thought process might they be applying to rationalize that it's reasonable for OM to attend my son's functions fully knowing that I'll be there and fully knowing that my son will know this and fully knowing his quandary of being caught in the middle and fully knowing that I personally abhor OM's presence?<p>I know, I know - you may advise me to get over this. I will. I have no choice. But that's not the advice I need. I'm trying to understand how these people can live with themselves. Or possibly, will my XW intentionally be creating these scenes to say to me, "In your face"? - to defiantly carry on like this to spite me? - and for what reason? She made all the decisions - to have an affair, to move out, to file for divorce, to follow thru with it.<p>Lastly, what possibly could be taking place in OM's brain - if there is one? I know - I'm not concerned about him or expect to change anything about either one of them. But I am concerned about what my son is thinking. So, how can HE (my son) process the fact that this creature (OM) helped lay his brother in the ground, then left his family, took up with his mother, and is now flaunting his presence in front of me?<p>If nothing else, at least help me find the words to describe these people and their behavior.<p>[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

Dave,<p>I don't understand it either.<p>To me it should always be what the kid wants. If your son wanted the OM there, you have to swallow it but if he doesn't care or rather he not be there I think his mom should respect his decesion.<p>Starting to have to deal with this more myself. The boys don't want the tramp at their events but she has tried to force the issue once lately, she ended up in the car. <p>I'll email you with more details later, can't write them here.

Wat,<p> I know you don't want to hear this. And I know it will never be right in your eyes, nor mine for that matter. But...Dave, this is life. This is exactly how these things happen, and you know it I think.<p> If the two of them have real feelings for each other, and for YS, how could they 'not' be at this function? And together? <p> Of course I could be way off the mark here. But, I get the sense that this really has nothing to do with you. It has/had everything to do with your son, who is still your wifes son as well. <p> Not meeting with or saying hello to Tazs mom may have been rude, but it also did what your own actions did. It avoided a possible confrontation. <p> I know you are not ready for this sort of thing Dave. But honestly ask yourself if them being at this function was wrong for everyone, or just for Wat. If WS, and yes,(I am sorry to say it)OM care for your son....how could they not be there together?<p> Old friend, please seperate your emotions from this for a minute and believe me when I say that I mean no disrespect, and apologize if my words caused you pain.<p> jd

Hey WAT,<p>It is because they are trying to make things "normal" in their eyes. They are one big "happy" family after all. My x did the same thing too.<p>I guess om is trying to be part of your son's life. Because you know both he and your x both think their relationship will be forever.<p>You need to do something so your son doesn't feel in the middle. You are going to have these situations forever how long your x stays with the om. I was fortunate, I never had anything were we had to mingle. om/h came to some of my kids sporting events and that was it.<p>Hang in!<p>Bob<p>[ May 18, 2002: Message edited by: RWD ]</p>

Reading this was the pits.<p>I don't think it was an in your face thing. I think it is just all a selfish thing. She wants what she wants, and doesn't care how you feel. It was rude to brush off the ap & her mom like that. But I think that behavior only strengthens the case for selfishness.<p> what thought process might they be applying to rationalize that it's reasonable for OM to attend my son's functions<p>I think that you are trying to be way deeper than they even go. I bet, and this is the sad thing, that they don't consider you in what they chose to do. The kid had a function and they went, they ignored your group because you are inconsequential to them. <p>I doubt that she is going out of her way to hurt you, she just doesn't have the capacity right now to thing about anything other than her needs.<p>how can HE (my son) process the fact .....<p>All you can do is be there for him, make sure he is going to counseling, and let him know you are available.<p>I think him deciding to stay neutral is probably a healthy thing for now. These are adult problems, and he doesn't have the skills to understand them, much less the intricacies (sp?) of a sexual relationship.<p>Later he called me and asked why I wasn't there. Now I feel bad <p>Tell him you're sorry, and will be at the next function with bells on. Ignore them as they do you, and it will be fine (not fun, but fine).<p>My folks switched off, they couldn't stand to be in the same room with each other. It really sucked, and I feel like all of us missed out on alot. There is no way to get those times back, just vow to go forward and never let other peoples actions dictate your relationship with your son. <p>All these things about dealing with divorce/seperation are easier said than done, I know, but all the same I think it's solid advice. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As far as the words to describe, I'll email you because I think the post will go like this
&^%)### &(*%$$& (*&%$#@)%$ )(*%$^$&^)(<p>Elizabeth

It is highly unlikely that the OM cares for WAT's son, in my opinion. As Frank Pittman has pointed out in "Private Lies," If he cared for the boy, he would have had no part in destroying his family.

Hi Dave.
I'm so sorry for all the hurts you keep enduring at your WW's hands. I can feel the hurt in your post.<p> what thought process might they be applying to rationalize that it's reasonable for OM to attend my son's functions<p>I personally think that now that you two are D'ved, your W feels she has the right to bring om to son's functions; to be a "couple." She is telling you that he's part of her life. It sux, yes, but that's how I read it. Yes, it's partly "in your face" - and I read soemwhere not too long ago (this past week?) that women, more so than men, who are in "inappropriate relationships" [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] tend to be more "in your face" with it. Don't know why. I can guess, though, knowing nature of women......(They don't call us *itches for nothing!) [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

how can HE (my son) process the fact .....
IMHO, your son will process far more than you know....and will process it, and handle it in his own way and in his own time. He is behaving in a MOST mature way for all this little guy has had to endure in the last few years. He is trying to "keep the peace" between the two dearest people he has. He is trying to make both of you happy, knowing both of you are doing things that upset the other. Whether intentionally or not, you are. Dave, you KNOW I care about your hurt, I feel your hurt, but this whole thing HAS had an effect on your son, and your hurt has GOT to have spilled out. It's just human nature. You can't keep something this big bottled up inside.<p>Later he called me and asked why I wasn't there. Now I feel bad <p>Tell him you did what you did to avoid confrontation, and uncomfort for all of you. I'm sure he can understand this. It's got to be uncomfortable for him, too. I'd have a long talk with him, and ask him what he would have you do, and the next time there is a function, what actions would he like to see from you? Would he like you to have been in attendance, knowing it was going to make everyone uncomfortable? If he knows YOU WILL DO WHATEVER he wants, he may want you there. He may have wanted you to be there to "buffer" him from them....then was disappointed when you didn't go.<p>I'm sure he's all jumbled up with emotions/feelings he can't process from this, as well as you are. This whole thing stinks.<p>I'd keep his words to his counselor in your mind. He KNOWS you "hate" OM. That has to be hard for him. I'm sure he doesn't want that from you. I'm also sure he understands it. BUT he probably worries (maybe even wonders) if you hate his mother?<p>He's looking up to YOU, Dave, to know how to be a man during all this. I don't want to preach, BUT I just wish there was a way to let him know that you are trying to forgive (WW and OM) for all this. A way to let him know that it really has less to do with DW, and a lot more to do with the fact that he (OM) was there while your family was going through other, devastating circumstances, and still took advantage of it for his own gain (not sure what he thinks he gained, but oh, well).<p>I admire your ability to remain calm and steady during this most difficult situation. Your life has been rocked pretty much to bone by this, waaay off the "richter"(SP?) scale. I certainly admire and respect your efforts. I hope nothing I have said has been hurtful. I never intended for it to be that way. Since I teach kids at about this age, I thought I might be able to add a little insight into his thoughts and feelings. His last few years has been harder than almost every other kid his age, that's for certain!<p>May God give you His guidance and blessings.

Dave,<p>I emailed you. I hope you got it.<p>I know how you feel. Every instance when there is a dymanic change that shows it's face regarding our spouses and the OP's relationship is very hard to get thru. It's all new, sometimes unexpected and most of all painful. <p>Sometimes, to me, it just feels so "wrong". I can't think of another word to better describe it. Just wrong, and I feel wronged. <p>But we need to get thru it, and become immuned to it. I hope we all can help each other get there.<p>Love,
Jo<p>p.s. pls let me know if you recv'd my email.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>Help me process this, please?<p>Last night, I attended my son's 8th grade class's production of "Fiddler on the Roof." Attending with me were my Aussie au pair and her Mum who is visiting from Canberra.</strong><p> Dave, I love 'fiddler on the roof'. What part did your son play? How appropo, family unity is stressed throughout that entire play. <p><strong>Upon arriving at the school, we saw my XW arriving with OM in tow. </strong> <p>Wonder who is in control???<p><strong>Later he (son)called me and asked why I wasn't there. Now I feel bad for letting XW and OM affect my decision.</strong> <p>Prepare yourself Dave. Rehearse the speech. Your son will now have to face the inevidable fact that his mom ran out on her family so she could 'tow an OM'. Let your son know that you were there but right now it is difficult for you to be in the presence of his mom and this OM. It is not a sign of weakness. Rather it is a show of character. You are human not an alien. You have feelings and you have been hurt. Your son needs to see that. Don't worry, your son will understand and in time let you know that. Hugz. <p>
<strong>Here's what I can't process: How are my XW and OM able to do this? What I mean is, what thought process might they be applying to rationalize that it's reasonable for OM to attend my son's functions fully knowing that I'll be there and fully knowing that my son will know this and fully knowing his quandary of being caught in the middle and fully knowing that I personally abhor OM's presence?</strong> <p> XW & OM are aliens. They gave up their humane citizenship to board the mothership. Left their feelings at the door (so to speak). Thata is why they can do this and more. Be prepared. After all this you are still hurting. I am sorry for your pain. If I could reach out and slap her, I would. Just say the word. I have friends that travel to the DC area to visit various members of the gov there. LOL!!! Also, they really don't care about the effect this is having or will continue to have on your son. In fact they may try to blame any of his 'negative' reactions on you. Be prepared. Prepare your son also. From what I know of the both of you, you each still have your own mind (you and your son) so when she tries to put his words and blame you for them, you can remind her that you have a bright boy who can think and speak for himself. <p><strong>I know, I know - you may advise me to get over this. I will. I have no choice. But that's not the advice I need. I'm trying to understand how these people can live with themselves. Or possibly, will my XW intentionally be creating these scenes to say to me, "In your face"? - to defiantly carry on like this to spite me? - and for what reason? She made all the decisions - to have an affair, to move out, to file for divorce, to follow thru with it.</strong> <p> I will tell you to be prepared. Prepare for the fact that she could concot worse situations. Prepare yourself and all who may encounter her. The thing on yuor side is time. The thing against you was time. Now it will work in your favor. Those who might have not wanted to be involved will also tire of these charades. Keep being the great guy we know. When you need us, 'just call my name and I'll be there'. (howz that Liz??? - LOL!!!) <p>
<strong>Lastly, what possibly could be taking place in OM's brain - if there is one? I know - I'm not concerned about him or expect to change anything about either one of them. But I am concerned about what my son is thinking. So, how can HE (my son) process the fact that this creature (OM) helped lay his brother in the ground, then left his family, took up with his mother, and is now flaunting his presence in front of me?</strong> <p> OM has a brain but remember it is filled with moose worms. He probably checked the functional part of his brain at the door. As for your son, he will process this if he has not already and in time he will show just how much he will tolerate. Remember Dave, many here were victims of d as children. Look at how long it has taken some of them to let their parents know how much it has devastated them? You have the option not to let him carry this burden into his adulthood. Be there for him and let him know he can always speak his mind. Then step back because when our children do so it is usually has a shotgun effect. <p><strong>If nothing else, at least help me find the words to describe these people and their behavior.<p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>
Alien infected with moose worms. No antidote found that can be forced fed to them. The cure can only be administered by the infected one. <p>Hugz,
L.<p>

Dave,<p>Just another thought regarding trying to understand why and how they can do these type of things without thought or consideration of us (BS).<p>There is NO explanation. Plain and simple.<p>It's all selfish driven. WE (BS) no longer enter into the equation when it comes to their decision making and who's feelings will or won't be hurt. We are tasked with coming to acceptance that our existence on this planet no longer has an impact on anything they decide to do or say. We are less significant to them than an ant when it comes to considering what will hurt us. <p>This may sound brutal, altho I feel it to be true in my case. And, IMHO, I fear most divorce cases are similar. They've (WS) cut all ties in their mind, and are free from any guilt or conscience legally and morally to chose to do whatever their selfish, self-serving, self-involved, self-centered little hearts desire.<p>I'm there with you, Dave. Many prayers for our quick and complete healing so one day we can honestly say we wish them well.<p>Love,
Jo

Dave, I'm really sorry for your son that this has happened to him, after all, you have learnt how to cope with it (even though it continues to hurt), but he may not yet have those skills.<p>He is very lucky to have a caring father.<p>SH

Thanks all for your helpful responses. As time goes on, I will be better able to tolerate this injustice.<p>I have lost a lot of faith in humanity through this. This was at the core of my question - trying to understand the thoughts and justifications of these people in order to have a clearer understanding; in order to restore some of my prior faith in the basic goodness of mankind.<p>Assuming these creatures are aberations, I can eventually return to expecting basic goodness in every stranger I meet. I'm just trying to learn and understand, for now, so that I can file this away as a lesson of life. I need to suck out of this every ounce of learning I can. As another poster recently quoted, we should learn from OTHER'S mistakes - life is too short to make them all ourselves.<p>Thanks again,
Dave

Hi WAT - yes, this is bad. But I do not think XW and OM go out of their way to tweak you at this point. They are simply trying to act like a normal couple and are not considering the impact on you at all. Very much like before the divorce?<p>To digress, my boys especially like "my" OM. He's into some kind of martial arts that involves archery and swordplay. How cool would that be to a 8 and 10 y.o.? They expect I would like him. I've had to explain why I can't, and that conflicts with revisionist history my W gives them about her relationship with OM. I was explaining to the kids why I can't have OM's stuff in my apartment (long story). The 8 y.o. rephrased "so __ is like a devil to you?" They get it. And I think they have to know there is an issue with W and OM relationship. Your son has to know that as well.<p>One thing that helps me, is to think that eventually their relationship will end. My W will then take up with someone she met after the separation, which will be a different matter. I could at least be civil with someone like that. <p>Your circumstances are much different, but maybe it could help you to think of that, too. Affairs usually don't last when exposed to the light of day. Wouldn't it be easier to deal with a guy that she met after the divorce?<p>- Tom

Tom - I think you're right and I've had this very same thought. After OM's been dumped, it'll be entirely different with the next guy. I expect to be able to handle that very well.<p>Thanks for your reply,
Dave

WAT, Tom,
I expect to experience this shortly since my x is divorcing from her om/h. She is already complaining that it is "hard doing this alone."
I'm not sure how I will handle a b/f.<p>I also wonder how x will react to my g/f now. She pretty much just ignored her before. One time her and om/h sat in front of g/f at my son's basketball game I was helping coach without realizing it. When they did, they got up and moved.<p>
x was already angling on a male room mate, but I haven't heard anything on this now for a couple weeks.<p>My s kind of like om/h too. He once said he was like a kid too. He had RC cars/boats and was into guns and cars all things most boys like at sometime.<p>My d never said too mcuh about him either way.<p>Hang in!<p>Bob