Hello friends,<p>Last night stbx called and left two messages.......some words he used were a little unusual for him........ie "I just wanted to say Hi......and to talk to the kids....." and also in a second message he called them OUR kids.......something he has avoided the whole time since he left. But I am not reading into it, just found it interesting.<p>I woke up this morning after a night of horrible dreams about OW coming to my house and refusing to leave....blah, blah, and I just had this overwhelming feeling invade me. The feeling was, simply put "ENOUGH!" I do not want to waste another thought or dream on this.<p>I have said many times that I have had it, I can't take anymore, and I am through trying, etc. But each of those times it was said in emotion......in the heartbreak about new revelations, etc.<p>This time, there is no new stuff that I have learned. It is just quite simply, that I am tired of the struggle, and I want out of this pointless situation asap. I want to be divorced from my husband, and I want it done with as little fuss as possible. I am claiming myself back...I know I am going to make it, and even have a better life without him. Being divorced doesn't scare me anymore.......in fact it is a release.<p>I wrote to my lawyer, telling her what I want financially, which I think stbx will agree with, and I have told her that I want it over as quick as it can be managed. I have a hearing regarding settlement on June 14, and that is when most stuff will be done. I can't file for divorce until July 7, as the law here says we must be separated for a year. And if it turns out that I change my mind, I have a year after that to take him back to court to ammend settlement. But I won't.<p>Does the fact that I am no longer fighting for my marriage make me any less welcome here? I don't think so, as there are many here who have made the same choice I have, to get on with life and accept. To know that I did all I could is my reward, and I know I have grown a lot because of MB. But I guess I hit the final stage of the grieving process in the past 24 hours......never thought I would get here.<p>I am neither happy nor sad.....not numb either. I feel a sense of relief that I can let this marriage go, finally, without it killing me.<p>Anyway, that is my latest stance on the matter.......<p>To all newbies.....I was once like you are now......completely overwhelmed with grief for my marriage. I never thought I would accept the situation, and those who have been here with me know I did all I could to save it. A good Plan A, and a fairly solid Plan B. And now the love bank is empty; MB was not for us.....my stbx was just too far gone. Now I am.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Does the fact that I am no longer fighting for my marriage make me any less welcome here? <hr></blockquote><p>I for one do not think so, however, different people have different expectations of patience. . . I for one believe that once the affair is discovered, if the WS does not end it immediately, and is not remorseful immediately, then the sense of self responsibility, of right from wrong, is defective, and there is a period of time that i give for the WS to come to the senses. . . however, the WS must not come from a dysfunctional family. . . if that happens, there are too many issues that need to be dealt with. . . that if not dealt with, will not result in a proper recovery. . . .<p>if there are no kids, then life is much less complicated. . . it is with kids that i think people need to be more patient. . . and with relatively cooperative parents and proximity close parents, then i think its ok to less patient. . . <p>but these are personal issues and decisions . . . not matter what, the damage is done, and the reactions may not occur for years, such as with God is in control. . . . and a few others, where the FOO is replayed out at the same age as the parents did it. . . as the saying goes, "the apple does not fall far from the tree."<p>so you are welcome, for you to move 1/2 way around the world with kids, and then have him lose his mind and personality, then he has very little self responsibility. . . but remember, as i predicted a long time ago, her will return. . . <p>one has to remember at this board, that as marriage counselors, the goal is to keep them together . . . almost no matter what, but sometimes that is more optimistic than most reality. . .<p>anyway. . . . good luck, keep working on those kid's anger issues, and slowly but surely they will learn to accept life. . . <p>wiftty

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:
<strong><p>. . . but remember, as i predicted a long time ago, her will return. . . <p></strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, wiftty, I have always thought this too, but it is too late now. I have lived with his infidelity for 18 months since this all began...and for me, that is enough, kids or not.

Jacky, I don't think you are any less welcome. I know we still need your detective skills in the kingdom. <p>The decision that it's over is tough. The filing won't be easy on you, in some ways. Neither will the finalization of the divorce. Freeing but stressful.
More hurdles to face. <p>Stay as long as you wish. I know I'm having my second MB birthday this week. They've almost run me off a time or two but they haven't succeeded yet. And my divorce was final more than 3 years ago.

Nina too - <p>Maybe this is a weekend for revelations. <p>You know that you did all you could, and even so that fact remains that your WS, like mine, simply did not and does not want to stay committed and married to you. That is no failing on your part by any means and don't ever let yourself think so.<p>I finallly understand the "it takes two" statement that so many people spout - and it's true, it takes two and if something happens where one spouse - for whatever reason - wants to basically shoot themselves in the foot, it's their foot, not mine.<p>However, we as the faithful ones, still have to go through the grieving process, which takes time, but when acceptance finally comes - and as I've read on this board that it always does, it's rather freeing.<p>It's not that we're giving up on the marriage or on our WS or our children, it's the WS giving up - giving up their lives, spouses, family, everything that they held dear - and for what? infatuation, and addiciton - well it can become their life but I doubt they are ever really happy or happier than they were in the marriage or happier than they could have been in the marriage since we found MB. In the long run it's their loss.<p>If God respects our free will then I believe that He allows us to respect it too, so that we can be released to continue to live happy and fulfilled lives without the WS.<p>It's disappointing, and it's sad to see someone we love throw everything away like this, but the reality is that they did and it's ok to move on and not have to have our entire lives ruined for their decision.<p>You have fought the good fight and with all you have learned and experienced, I believe you have won the race. Many wonderful things lie ahead for you and your family because you were the faithful one. It wasn't east getting to this stage I know, but it's a victory and not a loss. I wish you all the best, and may God richly bless you and your family.<p>K

Hi Ninatoo, just checking in. I can't see why you would not be welcome here, you have lots of knowledge, why not share it around?

Jacky,<p>Your right...enough is enough..and it's time for YOU to move on with your life..<p>and yes, you'll still come here and post..but as you begin to really gain more control over your life back..you won't post as often..because you won't have time [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And pretty soon you'll just be checking in on others to see how they are doing..and offering bits of encouragement and support as you read a post that remind you of your past..and offer support to that person as they begin the walk you've already made..and you'll realize..WOW I've really moved on..I'm happier now than I have been in a long time..I never thought I'd get through that..BUT I DID!!!<p>And the advice you give will be based on what worked and didn't work for you..things you will be able to look back on and say..I could have done this or that differently..but, I you did what you knew to do..and have become wiser in the process..<p>I'm learning..we ask for patience or wisdom..God gives us things in our lives to give us what we ask for..LOL..and sometimes..He even gives them to us when we don't ask, because HE knows one day we'll need that information we learned here to get have the type of life and relationship HE intended us to have to begin with.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Nina,<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] i predicted his behavior, not your behavior. . . and i respect each person's limits and tolerance as a personal decision.<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] my limit was about 4-6 months, so you are definately more patient than i. . .<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] i say go for it. . . you can do better than he. . . you just have to live with his legacy. . .<p>wiftty

Good luck Nina....I will hope and pray for a much better future for you. HE will take care of us. I never realised what a relief it is to finally let go and trust that God has a plan for us. <p>It is sad about what has happened in our lives...but I think we will grow and learn from it. I know I am a changed person...hopefully, for the better. <p>I will be thinking of you...I guess we will be going through this next part of the journey at about the same time. Keep in touch. Pat

Thanks so much everyone for your words of encouragement. I still feel very at ease with my decision, although my mother thinks I should take my stbx for every penny......I am just all out of fight and patience. I just want it over.<p>I will still be here posting, though I mostly lurk these days. Keeping up with everyone's stories and offering advice too is just a little much for me right now. Remember though, that I am thinking of you all, even if you do not see me for a while.<p>Once I was known as Hurricane Jacky, for the prolific amount of posts I submitted........well, either I am in the eye of the storm now (hope not) or I am out of it altogether. <p>When I find a bit more strength (as some of you know I had some health issues to deal with too) I will try to give more to the kind people here who have helped me so much.<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Jacky,<p>Actually,the 'eye of the storm' sounds about right..once the divorce process starts..and he starts fighting for custody of kids (because the thought of CS, and possible SS) he'll freak at the amount the courts say he'll need to pay..<p>His lawyer will probably inform him he needs to be more of a dad in order to get custody..(this is actually a ploy from lawyers to make ppl pay more money because they know most women will fight for custody). And he will on the advice of his lawyer, even if he doesn't want full custody he'll fight-
and anytime he can he will try and spend more time w/ the kids making it appear to the courts he does this all the time.. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] (also why he says
OUR kids now, and wanting to spend more time w/ them) <p>I could tell you some things my ex did during that time..and is still doing to try and make son angry at me..which is causing son problems..he's only 7
and children don't want to believe their parents are going to lie to them..but he hasn't learned yet to match the actions to the words yet..and I fear this will cause son problems in the future..
I have my kids in counseling..and hopefully this will help..

Hi Jackie, We have come along way and you have worked so hard. It is ok to let go and move forward. I think that we all arrive at this point sometimes, I still feel the pain and anger but I have been moving on and just want to be happy and live my life. I have reached a point of no return I think my marriage would be beyond repair now. I believe that even if she came around I wouldn't be able to give it a try. there is no shame in moving forward jackie, you just take care of yourself.

Well, what would I do without MB sometimes, otherwise I would think I was talking to the wind.<p>My kids have been struggling this week, and I know it isn't ME, for once, and for sure....I am okay with the world and feeling fine, even though I know that there are hard times ahead. Funny thing is that they have been this way ever since they talked to their dad on Monday [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . So I am wondering if he told them of his Xmas plan to bring OW over here for holidays and play happy families with them....the children have withheld information from me before this that they think will hurt me.<p>I wrote early today and asked him if he had told them.......no reply, and it is now the end of his working day where he is. Is it such a hard question? Sheesh!!!!!!!<p>And also today one of his sisters called, and it was clear to me that he has shared some of the details with the family.........because of what she DIDN'T say, if you know what I mean. So, I was as honest with her as I was with you guys........actually told her I would never have him back now because I am past it and working on ME. She has had marriage difficulties and was supportive, and thinks her brother is insane, BUT I know he is still her brother. Well, I am okay with everything........I do not want to dwell on this stuff anymore.<p>Thank you so much for each and every reply. I think you are all the greatest. I will continue to post, and when I have the energy, give my input and advice from experiences as I feel appropriate.

Jacky,<p>Have you asked your kids about what is bothering them? You really need for them to talk to you right now, they need to know that you can handle the truth no matter how much it hurts..<p>Think back to your own childhood..how often did you not tell your mom something that you really wanted to tell her, but were afraid she wouldn't understand, or afraid she couldn't handle the truth?? Looking back now about what you know of your mom..and yourself..do you think she could have handled the truth?? Yes, it may have hurt her, but she could handle it..and your kids need to learn the same thing about you..so that if one of them ever comes home and says.."mom, I'm...." they know you won't lose it..you know they don't want to hurt you..so it isn't disrespectful..<p>Just let them know they can talk to you..even if it is about dad and OW..even if it will hurt you
if they can't talk to you about it..then you should make sure they have someone to talk to..so they can learn to deal with their feelings..

Hi TR,<p>Well it has been a while since this post began. Yes I have repeatedly asked my nine year old if there is anything he wants to talk about; I have even said I can listen to anything, I am strong, and that it probablt won't hurt me the way he thinks it will.......and he is definetly evasive. I can't just come out and ASK him, in case he does not know, but stbx has not informed me if he has told them yet.<p>UGH!<p>I had to write to stbx the other day with GOOD news about our son, who is a smart cookie and has been selected for a two day program for gifted kids at school. They will do fantastic things, and I was very proud of him. So, being the dutiful stbxW, I wrote and told him........hoping he would congratulate his son. He called and did so, then wrote a patronising email to me.<p>Here is some of it:<p>"I am very proud of (son) and so thrilled, and you should also be congratulated for keeping him on such a even keel through this time. If any of the kids have an opportunity to extend themselves like that, please let me know. I can only offer financial assistance at this stage, but perhaps there is more that you can look out for.

Can I ask you for an idea of some of the positive things that the kids are doing, enjoying, how they relate to people, showing in their personality etc. I would like to look at their photos and have some feeling of knowing some of their positive traits better...it would be appreciated."<p>Urgh!!!!!!!!!!<p>I dunno, that stuff bothers me, especially about the even keel thing, which he has said in numerous emails. That and the word resilient (not used in the above), when referring to the kids.<p>I honestly wish he would drop off the face of the earth.<p>LOL, I sound angry.......well you know what, I am not really.......just amazed at how someone can change, and actually sorry for him some days...like when the kids say something excruciatingly funny! But I know, he made the choice, and he will never really GET it, will he?<p>SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!<p>Love and light,<p>Jacky

Jacky,<p>
"I am very proud of (son) and so thrilled, and you should also be congratulated for keeping him on such a even keel through this time. If any of the kids have an opportunity to extend themselves like that, please let me know. I can only offer financial assistance at this stage, but perhaps there is more that you can look out for.

Can I ask you for an idea of some of the positive things that the kids are doing, enjoying, how they relate to people, showing in their personality etc. I would like to look at their photos and have some feeling of knowing some of their positive traits better...it would be appreciated."<p>TR-LOL..It sounds like he's wanting to know HOW to relate to the kids..and asking You for advice on how to do this..what things are THEY interested in?? Instead of taking responsibility for asking them himself..I'd respond to the e-mail by saying that "you will encourage the kids to keep him informed of their accomplishments, and ask that they send him occassional photos" and inform him that he is more than welcome to call them and talk to them and ask them how they are doing..and what they are up too and such..<p>This removes you from his relationship with your kids and makes HIM responsible to keep in contact with them if he so chooses..but even as their parent your not responsible for informing him of their accomplishments..only things that may require his input or emergencies..anything else he is very capable of finding out for himself..by ASKING THEM!!! And building his own relationship with them..<p>I dunno, that stuff bothers me, especially about the even keel thing, which he has said in numerous emails. That and the word resilient (not used in the above), when referring to the kids.<p>TR-it would bother me too...because it's HIS relationship with HIS kids and he's trying to make YOU responsible for it..and it sounds like he's trying to pay you a compliment..but doesn't know how..<p>I honestly wish he would drop off the face of the earth.<p>TR- now now...<p>LOL, I sound angry.......well you know what, I am not really.......just amazed at how someone can change, and actually sorry for him some days...like when the kids say something excruciatingly funny! But I know, he made the choice, and he will never really GET it, will he?<p>TR- Nah, your just frustrated with the situation..
and that is what it sounds like to me..not anger..<p>I hurt for ppl like this too..like my ex..he's not got a clue either..and they don't even realize how much they are missing out on..just the everyday things..not just the laughs but the hugs and kisses and the everyday memories..<p>The guy I'm seeing has two kids, and he doesn't see them everyday..or talk to them every day..but when he does talk to them usually a few times a week, he calls them..or they call him..he talks to
and listens to them..and when he has them for a weekend he does the same..he plays games with them and talks to them while they play..he does the same w/ my kids..he'll sit down and play a video game, board game, cards whatever..and he talks to them and listens to what they say..makes them feel important..he listens to their complaints about their own father..and how they wish he would listen to them and not drink when they are over his apt. and he validates their feelings..<p>My kids are learning that not all dad's are like theirs..and it hurts..because they want this type of relationship w/ him..and don't get it..if they try and express their feelings to him he gets mad or just completely ignores them, making them wonder why they even try to talk to them..<p>I've also learned to step out of their relationship and let them work on it..I can't make him call them..I can and have suggested it..but I can't make him..and because he doesn't call them..
they feel he doesn't care..if he did..his actions would show it..and when they call him..he doesn't talk long to them..and doesn't really ask them about what they are up too..and how they are doing..they ask about his day and how work is..he gives short answers.."It was okay" and they just sit on the phone w/ empty air..and they get frustrated..and when they do share their day and activities he listens..but he doesn't really ask them anything more..and they find they carry the conversation..and this frustrates them to no end..
just as it would anyone else..they feel it's a one sided relationship..and they don't like it..<p>I realize this is long..but I share this so that you will see that one day you'll meet someone else..who won't be anything like this..and they will learn that not all dad's are like theirs..
and so that you can learn..your not responsible for his relationship w/ them..and theirs with him..and instead of you e-mailing him with news about activities or awards and such..encourage your kids to do this..this will make it easier for you to step aside and let them learn how to have a
relationship w/ him..and you get less frustrated..
which is ultimately the goal [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Jacky-
Just read your post and wanted to let you know that I have reached the same point as you. I found out about A 8 months ago. My H, although telling me he was working on our M, never ended A, moved out in March and never looked back. I worked for most of that time doing everything I could think of to save my M, but you get to a point where you just say "Why". I decided I will not live my life waiting for him. He isn't interested in our M any longer so I decided to take control of my life and file for D. It was very difficult, but at the same time it felt good to be the one in control now. He took too much away from me over these months and I am not allowing him to do it any more. Once I made the decision to move on, my entire attitude changed. I'm not afraid of D. Even my children are happier now because I am stronger and happier. My 13 year old D even says she likes me more now and we are getting along so much better. I am hoping that by being strong and in control, I am also teaching my children a good lesson. Because I am stronger now, it makes them feel much safer that things will be okay. <p>Good luck to you and it is great to hear from others who are at the same point that I am.<p>Donna

Hi Nina too, I lve<p>Just wanted to say Hi. I am new to this board & have just made same decision, to move onI really appreciated God is in control's response, even though it wasn't to me.<p>
God Bless,<p>D.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear Nina,
Just to let you know...that I too said enough was enough. Our divorce was final last Friday.<p>It is such a relief. I am so glad I am out of that turmoil...I can't tell you how great it is. I tried everything to save our marriage...but he didn't want it. It is his loss. <p>I have met a really nice man, who the kids know and like. Life is just a lot better around here--the kids like it better too. What a relief.<p>My H has also been trying to make me responsible for his relationship with the kids. Though he is a slow learner--or so it seems--he is learning that his relationship with them is up to him. I'm out of that picture. I still wish he would fall off of the face of the earth--he is definitely not a good role model for them. But I am learning to let go....and it feels great!!!<p>Hang in there through the next stage...but once you get through it, I think you are going to find your rainbow....life is so beautiful. Take Care Pat