From www.divorcesource.com/<p>The Friendly Divorce: Let the Other Person be the Way He or She Is:<p> The experience of love is created by giving the gift of unconditional acceptance and appreciation. It's letting someone be exactly the way he or she is. Unfortunately, this is much easier said than done. Some people and the things they do are very difficult to accept. Fortunately, non-acceptance is an illusion. At any moment, people are the way they are whether you accept them or not. This is also true for the other person in your relationship. No matter how difficult that person may be, that person is still the way he or she is. How you feel about the person is totally irrelevant. Hating the way someone is doesn't change a thing. That person is still the way he or she is. Acceptance is nothing more than being at peace with the truth. <p> When you are at peace with the truth of how someone is, you can see what you need to do, and you can interact in a way that is supportive. When you fight the way someone is, you create a state of upset. You lose your ability to see clearly, and you interact in a way that creates opposition and resistance against yourself. We think that if we just get upset enough, the other person will somehow get the hint and become exactly the way we want him or her to be. Obviously, this doesn't happen. In fact, the more you resist the way someone is, the worse that person becomes. <p> Look at how you feel when someone resists or tries to change you. How do you feel about changing? You don't want to. You get upset and resistant. You could care less about changing. You also become more judgmental and critical toward the person. The same thing happens when you resist someone else. That person then gets hurt and puts up his or her walls of protection. Then automatically, that person either resists, attacks or withdraws. That person acts just like you do when someone resists or tries to change you. When you can't be at peace with the truth of how someone is, you destroy love and make your situation worse. You fuel the cycle of conflict. As this cycle grows, the experience of love disappears. The relationship suffers and everyone gets hurt. Life becomes one big upset, and the other person seems to be the cause. But this isn't the truth. The other person is just the way he or she is. The cause of the upset is you. You create the upset by not allowing the other person to be the way he or she is.<p> Resisting the truth is like demanding that the zebra grow spots or that the sun doesn't set. Resisting the truth doesn't change a thing. It just creates more suffering. When you give up your demands for how someone should be and make peace with the way he or she is, you release your upset. You restore your ability to see what needs to be done.
Letting someone be the way he or she is, is an act of granting permission, a declaration of allowing. It's saying, "I give you full permission to be the way you are, and I give up my right to complain about it forever." This doesn't mean that
you like the way the person is or approve of what he or she does. It just means that you are at peace with the truth. Once you let the other person be the way he or she is, you may discover that he or she isn't the type of person you want to be married to. That's okay. <p> You can let the person be exactly the way he or she is, somewhere else. You don't have to hold your breath waiting for a miracle. You can let the person be the way he or she is, and you can get on with your life.<p> You also don't have to give the person whatever he or she demands. You don't have to let the person do whatever he or she feels like doing. Sometimes you need to say no. Sometimes you need to take a strong stand to keep from being bowled over. Do whatever you need to do to have your life work. Just make sure the person feels loved, accepted and appreciated in the process. When you resist someone, you create resistance against yourself, and it's uphill all the way. When you can accept and appreciate someone, you create an environment of cooperation and support. So let go of your demands for how the person should be and let the person be the way he or she is. Then do whatever you need to do.<p>Action to Take
Notice that the other person is exactly the way he or she is whether you like it or not. Notice how irrelevant your feelings are.<p> Notice how much you have fought and resisted the way that person is. Notice the conflict you have created by your resistance.<p> Let go of your demands for how that person should be and make peace with the way the person is. Give him or her full permission to be that way forever.<p> Remember that acceptance is nothing more than surrendering to the truth. You don't have to like the way the person is and you don't have to live with the person. You just need to make peace with the truth.<p> Give all the people in your life full permission to be the way they are. Work with this until you can.<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: AgainstTheWind ]<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: AgainstTheWind ]<p>[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: AgainstTheWind ]</p>

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense to me.<p>If I follow this correctly, right now I'd be finding a way to be "at peace" with my W's A, and finding a way to be OK with that in my M and my life...or just giving up and filing for divorce...<p>Does that make sense?

Hi Against,<p>Great article, and I agree completely.<p>Space ~
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If I follow this correctly, right now I'd be finding a way to be "at peace" with my W's A, and finding a way to be OK with that in my M and my life...or just giving up and filing for divorce...<hr></blockquote><p>You don't have to do either of those things.<p>What this article is saying is that when one accepts the reality of who someone else is - then the one has a much easier time making choices that work.<p>Acceptance does NOT equal agreement or liking another's actions, behavior or character. It simply means recognizing that someone is who they are - NOT who we want them to be, or imagined them to be.<p>When I make choices based on the reality that I want to exist, rather than the reality that does exist, my choices cause myself and others even more grief.<p>When I am trying to force reality (situations or people) into becoming the reality that *I* desire, then I am trying to assert control over that which I only IMAGINE that I have power over. In the end, I will have only frustrated myself and others, built up resentments in myself and others, and failed miserably at the forced solution that I had attempted to achieve.<p>When I am firmly grounded in acceptance, my choices "work" because they are based in reality as it really exists, rather than what my self-will desires.

Against the Wind,<p>Thank you! I could follow this line of thinking very well. I agree with much of what was written.<p>Spacecase,<p>My take on this is that at some point you would begin to "accept" that your WS is doing what they want, without regard to your feelings, for their very own reasons, regardless of what you think about the affair. The acceptance does NOT mean you agree or condone their actions - only that you accept that you are powerless to control the WS. In my opinionk, all a BS can do is work hard to recognize what behaviors must be changed immediately to become a more "attractive" alternative to their WS than the OP. The BS can be receptive to reconciliation and actively seek true forgiveness of the WS. That is about all a BS can control, except to "accept" whereever the WS is at any given moment in terms of the marriage and the affair, and their own choices as to what to do in terms of waiting, attempting reconciliation, filing for divorce, etc.<p>In other words, a BS can only control the BS - not the WS. Acceptance of what the situation has become is not the same as only remembering "what once was".<p>RMA

RMA;
I think what you are saying is different from what the article says.<p>While we must learn to "accept" the WS as they are at this moment, and work on ourselves, this does not mean we are passively leaving the WS to their reality. We are not "at peace" with what they currently are in the sense that we recognize that change must take place. We may understand that we cannot effect the change, but we can influence it in subtle ways.<p>We do Plan A, and Plan B, and we set boundaries, and go to MC, and many other things in order to try to help them see that they need to also make changes, to see thier reality for what it is.<p>While we may do this in a non-agressive way, without demanding the changes, it is still an effort to effect change. And that is different from accepting and "giving the gift of unconditional acceptance and appreciation"...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>
When I am trying to force reality (situations or people) into becoming the reality that *I* desire, then I am trying to assert control over that which I only IMAGINE that I have power over. In the end, I will have only frustrated myself and others, built up resentments in myself and others, and failed miserably at the forced solution that I had attempted to achieve.<p>When I am firmly grounded in acceptance, my choices "work" because they are based in reality as it really exists, rather than what my self-will desires.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>While I can accept that this may be a good "strategy" to embrace during certain moments or periods of turmoil, I think it flies in the face of the fact that, in the end, like it or not, we have certain needs that we require our spouse meet, certain requirements that are not negotiable. In the end, no matter what path we use to get there, these have to be accomodated.<p>If they are not, and if we decide to try to change those desires grounded in the belief that we cannot effect any change in others, we will ourselved become frustrated and unfulfilled, as we will have done to ourselves what we are predicating we should not do with others; accept us as we are.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>While I can accept that this may be a good "strategy" to embrace during certain moments or periods of turmoil, I think it flies in the face of the fact that, in the end, like it or not, we have certain needs that we require our spouse meet, certain requirements that are not negotiable. In the end, no matter what path we use to get there, these have to be accomodated.<hr></blockquote><p>You are right - so far.<p>I have a need - the need for a sexually exclusive relationship that I require from my spouse.<p>However, there is no possible way, as you and I have both discovered, to force our spouses to be sexually exclusive.<p>What I can do is look at reality: My spouse is not respecting my requirement for sexual exclusivity in our relationship. <p>Once I have accepted that THIS is the person that my spouse is, ie, someone who is at least for today, someone who does not value fidelity, then I can start making choices about my own actions.<p>But if I decide that I can force my spouse into being faithful and honest - then I will wear myself out with resentments. Or I can decide that my spouse is simply confused and doesn't really love the OP, that he/she really loves me but just doesn't know it (can you just feeeeeeel the disrespectful judgements here). Or I can decide as some seem to do, believing that my spouse is simply under Satan's control and if I can just get him/her to wake up and "get it" that everything will go back to being fine.<p>Or, I can look realistically at the situation (as I learned to do) and say: I need to be in a relationship with sexual exclusivity. My spouse is not someone who is choosing to offer that to me. I need to take steps to protect myself. <p>Those steps can be some form of Plan A/Plan B - all the way to divorce. But at least in this situation, you are no longer a victim. <p>When I did this, and filed for divorce - NOT with the intent of getting my husband to "straighten up" but with the intent of separating myself from a situation that was showing no sign of ever meeting my needs - then my husband choose to become someone that would and could provide me with sexual exclusivity.<p>It was my acceptance of who he was that brought about the changes - it was NOT my demands that he change.<p>Honestly, I expected to be divorced. I accepted that my husband could not provide my needs and in fact was taking actions that harmed me and harmed my family on many levels. Accepting reality allowed me to take responsilbity for my own life instead of remaining a victim.

BR;
I think you validate my point, we just look at it in different ways. Let me try to explain:<p>You accepted what your H was, and saw you could not effect change, so you decided to leave the relationship by divorcing. However, your divorce action DID effect change in your H; he realized that if he did not change, he'd lose you, so he changed and was able to keep you.<p>The fact that you were actually prepared for a divorce doesn't change the fact that the action did indeed have the effect of persuading your H to change.<p>If I, on the other hand, file for divorce; not convinced that this is what I really want, but with the intent of perhaps effecting the change upon my W, then the only difference is in how I feel about it, not in the action iteslf, or in the potential consequences of the action.<p>I may not be truly prepared for a divorce, and that is painful for me, but if it has the same effect as it did with you, then we;ve both done the same thing.<p>The only difference is that you were prepared for divorce, and I was not as prepared for it. So for you the act was less painful, and for me it was more painful. Apart from that, it's the same, isn't it?

For the most part, I accept poeple for who they are and what they are. I cannot accept my H lying to me, cheating one me, being abusive to me or our children any longer. A preacher on TV put is this way "if you go into a yard, and there is a dog there and he bites you, it is stupid to hold that against the dog from now on. It is equally stupid to continue to return to the yard with the dog that bites you. No, we can't change people, nor is it even fair to try. We can change ourselves and how we react, and what we want to tollerate. Maybe because of where I am at in my life right now, or maybe because of staying in a situation for too long that was too damaging I have grown a little cynical, but we only have control over ourselves. Trying to change others is like talking to the wind. I have found tho that when you take action for what you want and decide to move on, people who should care seem to take notice and wake up. Sometimes it's just to late. Their last ditch efforts to change themselves have come to late.

Agree completely. It has taken me almost two years to figure this out, but I have finally realized that I must accept WS for who she is now regardless of my feelings about it. <p>In doing so, I am freed from living in constant disappointment and false hope. <p>Not that I don't still have hope, I'm just in the realization that hoping and waiting can consume one's soul and can undermine and even prevent personal recovery from the pain of the A and any resulting separation or divorce.

I agree that one is not responsible for someone else's feelings and actions. I don't know if I would call it a "Friendly Divorce" There is no such thing...maybe later on, but one if not both parties usually are less than thrilled with each other. Who ever wrote the article obviously wasn't in the throes of hashing out a divorce settlement. Most of us know that you can't change people, that we can't make someone love us if they don't want to...it is fairly easy to apply these principles to our relationships with others...but not when one is going through the stress and heartbreak of disolving a marriage. It would make life a lot easier for all concerned, including the children, if we could adopt this philosophy and mean it. <p>Personally, basing my actions on my own situation, I know my ex is the way he is. I accept it. I don't like it or do I like it when his behavior effects my children's emotional state and my own life. When he calls me at 4AM to start whining about how his life is ruined or to blast me because of a date I had five months ago...I don't feel very friendly towards him.<p>[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: HappyMac ]</p>

absolutely accept them for who they are now. . .<p>the more i read, the more i studied, the more i counseled, the more i realized that i was right along time ago, and didn't heed the red flags I saw in my X.<p>But more importantly i didn't understand what type of person she was nor did i understand where she came from. . . now i do, and i accept her for who she is. . . . <p>and who she is is NOT whom i want a life long relationship with, regardless of whether she wants to be married or not. . . she has so many issues that i just steer clear of all of them . . .<p>wiftty

I read this and think that although there are a couple of helpful tidbits, the overall presentation of the idea is extremely poor. Right from the opening sentence:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The experience of love is created by giving the gift of unconditional acceptance and appreciation<hr></blockquote><p>That's the biggest line of hooey I've ever seen. Followed by...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>It's letting someone be exactly the way he or she is.<hr></blockquote><p>Which is also crap.<p>Love is created (normally) by efforts applied to the other person. People who are dating are rarely "exactly the way they are". They're on their best behavior (in principle, at least... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) That appreciation and acceptance that the other person gives isn't unconditional---it's extremely conditional on what the other person is doing---what needs they're meeting.<p>I wasn't buying it either, Spacecase.

Its me - "cantletgo". Yesterday I went back & read my old posts before deleting some. Absolutely nothing has changed in one year, except I am coping better by being on antidepressants.<p>My H never allowed me to meet his needs and so I plugged on as best I could. Kept up house, bought his favorite foods etc. He filed, dismissed & came back. But since then, sleeps on floor, comes home only to sleep, does not tell me anything and barely responds to me if I ask something.<p>They have been telling me for a year here to work on ME and let him go. All I was focused on was what is he or OW doing/ saying/ thinking/ and where are they etc. ANd how could he do this to me etc. I didnt and still dont want divorce. But the only person I am hurting by not accepting things the way they are now is myself. It certainly does not mean I approve of any of H's behaviour or treatment of me. I have been madder than hell.<p>But I have been working on getting this excerpt into my subconcious brain. Accepting that this is how H is NOW, that things will NEVER be like they once were, that he will never be the same man I first married. And I will never be the same either. I will be less trusting of anybody in my life, prevent myself from being dependant on them only to possibly become so hurt again. I am accepting that this is the state of my life TODAY. And I think it will help me finally find some peace of mind for myself. Like last night, instead of driving all over town thinking H is with OW, I went home & did my own thing & didnt let him bother me. <p>He is the man that he is now and I CANT CHANGE THAT. Yes, I would like to hope that he will change, that he will be willing to meet me halfway on some terms (POJA) and work on this marriage. But accepting who he is NOW, TODAY, has helped me not hold my breath. <p>I have made the decision not to be the one to file for D, no matter how hurt I have been. I wanted this marriage to last desperately. ANd if he moves out and files for divorce again, there is nothing I can do. He is just this way. Fighting wont change it. I have to face what do I want to do now.<p>
PS. What LOVE is can't be defined. But I dont think people being on their best behavior. That is infatuation. I think love comes into play when there have been fights that were resolved or bad habits revealed etc. etc and the two people involved can still maintain a positive relationship. Of course what about the love between a mother and child? Even though this was off a Divorce website, I think it can be applied to any relationship. It doesnt mean you APPROVE or like the person, just that you realize & accept that this is the reality of who they are NOW.<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: AgainstTheWind ]</p>

I can understand in your letter, what you maybe trying to say, but Ill give you my view on it for what ever that is worth.

I for one, cannot "accept" a WS and accept what they have become. I can however acknowledge, not accept what they have become. It goes against the very fabric of my moral standard.

To me "accepting" it, is in essence condoning what they are... that I will never do.

If you choose to accept what they have become, then it is an individual decision that he/she has to make.

I guess it's your decision on how much your willing to swallow.

For me, I'll pass on even taking a taste of it.

Thats my opinion, I could be wrong.

Wallace

I have to say you are alot stonger than you may think and from what i've been reeding only time will heal this i can't say that from experiance as of yet but i hope to some day. take care

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You accepted what your H was, and saw you could not effect change, so you decided to leave the relationship by divorcing. However, your divorce action DID effect change in your H; he realized that if he did not change, he'd lose you, so he changed and was able to keep you.<p>The fact that you were actually prepared for a divorce doesn't change the fact that the action did indeed have the effect of persuading your H to change.<p>If I, on the other hand, file for divorce; not convinced that this is what I really want, but with the intent of perhaps effecting the change upon my W, then the only difference is in how I feel about it, not in the action iteslf, or in the potential consequences of the action.<hr></blockquote><p>Well, no, not really.<p>One of the lessons I've learned over the years is that motivations are always a huge factor in how any action is taken and how a situation is played out. My attitude was the factor that made the difference - my husband was not going to ask me to drop a divorce that was going to free him from a judgemental, manipulative, selfish (ie change to suit me) kinda gal.<p>I changed and became someone he didn't want to lose. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I may not be truly prepared for a divorce, and that is painful for me, but if it has the same effect as it did with you, then we;ve both done the same thing.<p>The only difference is that you were prepared for divorce, and I was not as prepared for it. So for you the act was less painful, and for me it was more painful. Apart from that, it's the same, isn't it?<hr></blockquote><p>The first time I filed for divorce (I did it twice) was with a really bad attitude. I wanted to get his attention, to wake him up, to hurt him, to get him to react, ANYTHING. I was hurting like hell and thought that either he'd come to his senses, or at least I could stop hurting by being apart from him.<p>What did it result in? Not much. I was pregnant, and had to put the divorce on hold to deliver a baby. When that happened my husband took that opportunity to try to get me to drop the divorce - and we did try for a bit. But the thing was, I was still demanding that he change to suit me, and he really didn't want to be married to me. He just felt extremely guilty about divorcing me with a new baby - and for what it was worth, he was head over heels in love with our daughter the moment he saw her. But he kept dating other women, because he could not possibly see himself married to me for the rest of his life. My hurt, my anger, my self-righteous moral goodness was worn like a cloak of glorfied victimization. Who wants to be married to that? <p>The second time was not done in anger and pain - all though I was still (and still do) experiencing those emotions. The second time was when I took a realistic look at the situation and realized that I couldn't force him to be the man I wanted and needed. He was who he was, and I had been trying for years to get him to be who I wanted him to be.<p>I stopped trying to change him, and just started making decisions based on the reality of the situation. My decisions were no longer motivated with the intent to control an outcome, my decisions were based on treating myself with the love and respect that I had neglected my entire life - and while doing that for myself, I also did it for him. I learned to stop being morally "RIGHT" (ie, woe is me, my evil husband cheated on me and he needs to stop and be the man I think he should be) and started realizing that for whatever reason, my husband's values were different than mine and that his values included justification for adultery. Just as I have the right to believe that adultery is wrong, he has the right to believe that it is ok. No one gave me permission to impose my belief system on him. Was it fair that we married with the understanding that adultery was wrong and then he changed? No, it wasn't fair, but it was what it was, reality. Life is never fair and there are really no guarantees.<p>So, there I was, a divorce in the works that I didn't really want, but accepted was a necessity for my own safety and wellbeing. Acceptance and peace gave me the ability to Plan A like I had never Plan A'd before.<p>I started facing reality and making decisions by accepting the reality I had been handed, rather than trying to force reality to match my own self will. When I did that, I made better decisions in every aspect of my life.<p>Motivations are everything.

BR:<p>So he did change after all. He decided he did not want to lose you and made changes that you could live with so he could do that. Right?<p>So what made him realize this? The changes you made to yourself? or the divorce filing which convinced him he was going to lose you?<p>I think that if it was only the changes you made, then filing for divorce would have been unnecessary. He would have seen what he had and would have decided to do what needed to be done to keep it.<p>But he didn't.<p>It was when you filed for divorce that it sunk in and he decided to keep you.<p>So what effected the change? your changes or the threat of loss?<p>[ June 01, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</p>

OK, I've read the article a few times through, and I'm not sure I understand it.<p>Yeah, sure, "the other person is exactly the way he or she is whether you like it or not."<p>Yeah, sure, "resisting the truth" is bad. Another word for that is "denial".<p>But, "Give all the people in your life full permission to be the way they are"? What's that supposed to mean? The wording of this advice implicitly endorses the very fallacy that the article explicitly rejects! We have no control over the way people are, and granting "permission" for them to be that way is therefore meaningless.<p>I'm also uncomfortable with the statement that "acceptance is nothing more than surrending to the truth." That may be technically correct, but how are you supposed to recognize the truth you need to accept? If your spouse says to you "It's over", are you supposed to "accept" that statement as truth? That's not surrendering to "the truth"; that's surrendering to your spouse's current view of the world. And that's a view which may be seriously obscured by what around here we call "the fog".<p>I think the root of the article's problem is that it goes back and forth between talking about "resisting the truth" and talking about what happens when you "resist someone else", as if they are the same thing. I don't think they are the same thing at all. It is one thing to recognize that there are certain things (which things? remember the serenity prayer?) which I cannot control or change, and to respond accordingly. It is quite another to "create an environment of cooperation and support" with and for someone who is being abusive and/or self-destructive.<p>I think you can and should "let the person be the way he or she is" and still not "let go of your demands for how the person should be". (At least, that's what I think you should do if your demands are rooted in love for that person and not just your own self-interest.) I believe that in order to truly accept someone, we need to accept not just "who they are now", but also who they have been before and who they have the capacity to be.

Bumping for GodIsInControl