</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>We had a big LB last monday ( Which was the 1 yr anniversary of her dad's death - Of which I am very ashamed that the situation got that far)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to do whatever it takes to make this up to her, and never let it happen again. You didn't give specifics so I won't pry, but if things went bad you need to apologize sincerely and never do it again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>The fact that she was going to move forward (if I didn't memtion anything ) tells me she DOES want to move forward and is having problems with the Trust/resentment issues.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very possible. The fact that she's exploring this with a counselor is very good indeed. You should encourage her every chance you get. Don't pry, but be available and interested if she wants to bring up the topic. AVOID LBs!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>She hung out w/her friend last nite. The friend slept over (female friend from work).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This seems odd to me, but it may just be that it's something I'm not used to. A wife having sleepovers just isn't something that I've seen. <shrug>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>Before bed she came in and gve me a very warm/loving kiss on the cheek.

Then this morning she called me at work and left a msg. She said she just wanted to tell me that she hopes that I have a good day.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent, wonderful stuff.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>Last nite I didn't show any sadness when we spoke & I told her I would sleep in our son's room.

She had a very sad look on her face when I said this??? Don't know what this means.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It means huge, glaring LB! <BZZZZT> She's nice to you all day long and then you sleep in the other room? I don't mean to beat you up, but this was exactly the wrong thing to do. If she wants to separate/divorce, you LET her, but you don't HELP her! If sleeping in another room is something she wants, then let her go find another room to sleep in. Don't offer anything that puts space between you two anymore.

I forgot to comment on the BPD question you asked. To me, the things you described your wife doing are pretty mild compared to what people with BPD do. Blaming other people for her problems might indicate irresponsibility or immaturity, but not necessarily BPD. Ignoring problems might indicate a tendency toward a pattern of conflict avoidance, but it's not necessarily a pathological problem.

Just my guess from what you've said.

You're right about the sleeping in the other rm. I goofed. I am going to let her lead the next time. Thanks.

BTW - She called me this morning and says she wants to talk tonight - that she made a mistake.

I also apologized for the LB last monday.

Hopefully this is just a bump in the road. But I think therapy separately & together is a MUST for BOTH of us !

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>Hopefully this is just a bump in the road. But I think therapy separately & together is a MUST for BOTH of us !</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Call Jenn or Steve! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Too bad the name o2bSane is already taken !!!

I AM AT MY WIT'S END !

My wife's std operating procedure for dealing w/problems is to put her head in the sand, ignore it and wait for it to go away!

My wife wanted to split the up the finances this weekend (50/50) ; I told her that we should be doing MORE together not splitting things up.

Last night she said it feels like we are doing everything separately (duh ! That's what I had been saying ALL WEEKEND !).

Then she said, And 1 day I may take her up on this, that we should separate !

We haven't been talking to ea. other much over the past 2-3 days.

I have NO idea what to do.
I've plan A'ing my a&! off since 2/2001.

Do I need to try a plan "B" approach.
I've worked on, successfully, the personal issues she was complaining about and it's worked out very well and I am MUCH happier but it seems that she's LESS happy!

I am beginning to think that it's her NOT me !
I've done everything humanly possible.

I've given 1000% to save this relationship.

I'm tired.

This will be quick, it's hectic at work today. I'll try to fill in some more tonight from home if I get a few minutes.

Honestly, you haven't done all you can until you've talked to Jenn or Steve. They aren't cheap, but neither is a divorce.

It sounds to me like you're doing the right things. Don't act depressed or needy. Don't beg. Don't bring up relationship talks. Put on your best attitude and be nice & happy when you're around her. The last thing you want to do is make it easy for her to leave, make her think she's leaving the best guy on the planet.

Good luck. More later.

Thanks o2bSane !

Been doin' ALL those things.
She's going to therapy right now 1x a week.

Extra therapy won't fly, right now (For her).

I am willing BUT I won't do it alone she MUST be present.

The time to work on your marriage & get things straightened out seems to be when things are going well instead of waiting until things get bad. In other words be prepared for the bad times BEFORE they occur (I guess in a perfect world this would always be done in every relationship_.

Communication and relationship improvement is ongoing work not just "when things get bad let's get some help".

My gut is STRONGLY telling me to move on.
It's usually not wrong but in this case I hope it is!

I truly believe that I have been making a SERIOUS effort in this relationship and I DON'T believe my wife is making the same effort!

It's been 7 months now and she hasn't changed AT ALL OR , I believe, learned ANYTHING.

If she's unwilling to flex/learn move forward then there's not much more I can do BUT leave.

I don't have a choice in the matter.

I am the type of person that likes to deal w/my problems and resolve them. (I am a programmer it's my job to solve problems so I am in that mode).

My wife likes to ignore them until they go away.

Problem is if you ignore them they ALL back up on you ALL at once at the MOST inconvienient time.
Like NOW !

I am a proactive type of person; she is a reactive type of person.

The clock is running out. I feel unappreciated; alone ; mis-understood etc...but that's all whining.

There are ALOT of women out there and I am sure I could find AT LEAST 1 who would make an attempt to understand me and appreciate the things that I do in a relationship.

I would also be able to bring my new found knowledge to the next realtionship....

Who knows I'll give it some more time BUT I will eventually need to make a decision here.

Thanks again for your responses I DO appreciate the.

TG

What did Steve Harley advise you to do?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>I am willing BUT I won't do it alone she MUST be present.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still think you're missing out on some big time help. There's nothing like talking to the experts. Jenn helped me immeasurably.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>The time to work on your marriage & get things straightened out seems to be when things are going well instead of waiting until things get bad. In other words be prepared for the bad times BEFORE they occur (I guess in a perfect world this would always be done in every relationship_.

Communication and relationship improvement is ongoing work not just "when things get bad let's get some help".
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right on the nose here. Too bad you and I didn't learn that lesson before we started having problems.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>I truly believe that I have been making a SERIOUS effort in this relationship and I DON'T believe my wife is making the same effort!

It's been 7 months now and she hasn't changed AT ALL OR , I believe, learned ANYTHING.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may be right. On the other hand, you can't control what she does. Worry about doing the best you can.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>If she's unwilling to flex/learn move forward then there's not much more I can do BUT leave.

I don't have a choice in the matter.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, but you do have a choice. You're falling into taker mode here. You're saying "Hey, I've been a good boy for 7 months. I want what I'm entitled to!" That's not gonna fly with her.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to warn you about getting your perspective out of whack.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>There are ALOT of women out there and I am sure I could find AT LEAST 1 who would make an attempt to understand me and appreciate the things that I do in a relationship.

I would also be able to bring my new found knowledge to the next realtionship....
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't want to go there yet. Finish this one before you start another one.

It may be that she'll finish it for you, but try to avoid putting pressure on her. That'll only work against you in the long run.

Time and patience. Plan A isn't for wimps.

ob2Sane , I do understand what you are saying here
but I've had some revelations recently.

1. Plan A is for ME not for HER !
Think about it. If plan A doesn't work then I am a better more patient understanding person for it. (This can be carried to the next relationship).

2. There has to be an end to Plan A. I've read about some of these poor people who have been Plan A'ing for 18 +/- months.
Remember the definition of insanity!

Plan A can also have a detremental/unhealthy effect on self-esteem.

The time must come eventually when you need to save yourself and get out; fact the cold hard truth and believe me it IS COLD & HARD...but
there are also MILLIONS of women out there.

To me there is NO SUCH thing as a "Soul-Mate".
Soul Mate implies that in this vast world there is ONLY 1 partner for you; wrong !

My wife and I are doing MUCH better now (Got a book called "The Good Marriage") it is a study of successful marriage and reasons for their success.

My Wife LOVES it! I will read it next.

I guess you just have to come to grips w/things and move on when the time is up.

There is hope of a GOOD relationship for ALL of us out there (Just have to choose more wisely the next time). Of course there are no guarantees.

TG.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>ob2Sane , I do understand what you are saying here
but I've had some revelations recently.

1. Plan A is for ME not for HER !
Think about it. If plan A doesn't work then I am a better more patient understanding person for it. (This can be carried to the next relationship).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you do a good Plan A you will be a better, more patient, understanding person for it whether you are able to save your marriage or not. Plan A is all about you, that's for sure. Go to work making yourself a better person and hopefully your W will decide that she wants to stay with you. If she decides to leave, give yourself a good long while to grieve and heal, and then find yourself another relationship.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>2. There has to be an end to Plan A. I've read about some of these poor people who have been Plan A'ing for 18 +/- months.
Remember the definition of insanity!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you're looking at Plan A as a way to influence your W, yes, you'll get tired of it eventually if she doesn't come around. At that point you have Plan B as an option. That's why you really need to be talking to one of the Harleys. People who Plan A too long tend to skip Plan B and go directly to Plan D.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>Plan A can also have a detremental/unhealthy effect on self-esteem.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand what you're saying here. That's why when you get to where you can't show your W a good Plan A you go to Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>The time must come eventually when you need to save yourself and get out; fact the cold hard truth and believe me it IS COLD & HARD...but
there are also MILLIONS of women out there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes there are, and I've met several of them. I've been having the time of my life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>My wife and I are doing MUCH better now (Got a book called "The Good Marriage") it is a study of successful marriage and reasons for their success.

My Wife LOVES it! I will read it next.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like it might be interesting. I hope you both gain something of value from it. Have either of you read His Needs, Her Needs? If she's interested in learning about successful behavioral patterns for satisfying marriage relationships that ought to be on her nightstand.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>I guess you just have to come to grips w/things and move on when the time is up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess you do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TampaGuido:
<strong>There is hope of a GOOD relationship for ALL of us out there (Just have to choose more wisely the next time). Of course there are no guarantees.

TG.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You sound like you've got one foot on a bananna peel. What's going on? Do you want to save this marriage?