For the last year I have been miserable, but I am learning to let go. I think we are past the point of no return & H will likely move out soon, & maybe refile shortly also.<p>He has been involved with OW since March/Arpil 2001. We keep into arguments I try to avoid. He denies adamently having affair, in spite of all the lies I have caught him in (phone call, email, seeing them together at work for at least 7 months til I left, recently seeing him parked at her place again, after thinking it was over between them etc. etc.<p>What if, IF he engages me in argument again and denies the affair saying " I am NOT having affair with that woman" I tell him to "PROVE IT". He has not been working on this marriage at all, though he says he "tried in his own way". He has a cell phone & laptop that I do not have access to or quite know how to peak at. All his papers (bills, credit card statements etc have been hidden or removed from house (at his work) since I confront him with those things - then he hides it from me). I feel like I have Nothing to lose at all at this point. He sleeps on floor since returning home in February and barely speaks a word to me. Has fallen back into his old habits of last year, not coming home till 10 or 11PM everynight, rarely telling me where he is going or when he will be back. If he does say "I'm going for a ride" (on his newly purchased motorcycle) he does not come back for hours, and says nothing. I don't even believe him anymore, hes lied so much.<p>So what if I say Prove it? If he has any willingness to give our marriage a chance, dont you think he would? I am so mad that he refuses to give us a chance and says I mustlet hom go & that has going to make a fresh start in everything. He is still involved with OW. But imagine my surprise if he were to say okay!!!<p>Also, since I expect him to move out and/ or refile shortly, and he is NOT willing to give anything to this marriage - do you think the "Surviving An Affair" book would be of any use to me personally? To help me move on without him? I hold out no hope for him working on things.<p>In the past I have left things laying around in plain sight and he as tossed them aside without reading them - all sorts of stuff about relieving stress (which he admits to) but he wont read them. So I dont think he would read this book either, but I thought maybe there's something in it for me anyway? THOUGHTS???

me bumping [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi - you should ask your H to "prove it" by being fully accountable to you. No hidden cell bills, email accounts, credit cards, etc. He will check in with you when he's out at night, and give you numbers to call back. And so on. It doesn't sound like he will go along, but you need to lay out what he has to do. <p>I don't know your history but it's interesting he moved out and then came back after a few months. Perhaps a plan B, or Controlled Separation, would be of some use.<p>Regarding books, I've read many but by no means all. I think SAA and HNHN are always useful, if you think about focusing on yourself, no matter what happens in your marriage. I think for where you seem to be, the CS book by Lee Raffel can also be useful. It takes a more ambivalent approach, "stay or go", than the Harley's books. I read this recently when thinking about the end of my own plan B, and it was helpful in figuring out whether I had left anything undone.<p>You can't "educate" him until he makes his own decision to work on the marriage. Better to openly work on improving your own life, be seen as preparing to move on. Perhaps this will arouse his curiosity and interest - and either way - it's something you would need to do.<p>Good luck.

ATW,<p>Sounds like you'd like to try but you are waiting for him to do something. He won't, so you need to change what you are doing right now to stop a refiling. You recognize how close he is to leaving. <p>Stop getting into arguments you try to avoid. Just stop, because this is justification fuel to a WS. Don't hand him an exit by feeding into his need to fight with you and make sure things are not right. <p>He IS having an affair, no proving needed in either direction. He lies, he hides, he has a secret life.<p>Ask him specifically what he has done in his own way to save the marriage. It may sound ridiculous but LISTEN to him, don't argue or comment. Hear him.<p>I'm sure he is under lots of stress. The OW has divorced for him - that has got to be one huge, nagging, constant, all day at work tug.<p>Yet, he came back home. Why?<p>This is an emotional war between you and the OW. I'd appeal to his emotional side. Get close to him in even the slightest way and put that question and doubt back in his head.<p>Lay down on that floor next to him and just say "hello". You said you have nothing left to lose in the actions you take, I disagree. Change all those actions toward saving your marriage.<p>Your sit is very similar to mine. When asked later my H said he was just waiting for me to do something, anything, to show I wanted him.<p>Use the phone counseling at this site as soon as possible. Really, do it.

I give up. Its almost over, I think<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: AgainstTheWind ]</p>

It seems to be over. Find a good lawyer now and protect yourself. You shouldn't have to live this way. Your husband has his own agenda.

Thanks Adam, I have been thru him filing once already. I hired attny at the time cause I was clueless about papers. I did NOT want divorce, & thought that H would give us a chance to work through some things. Well, he came back & dismissed but there were no personal changes. It was okay for about 3 days & then he started in on me that I was the same Bit#$ I always was & he could "Refile, it will only cost $800". Said this often. Continued sleeping on floor, not accountable for whereabouts, lying, covering up etc etc.<p>So do you have any advice about the male psyche? I am letting go (formerly "cantletgo") but I am so lost & hurt and confused still. Desperate to understand how it all went wrong, yet aware that I may never know. You say it looks like H has his own agenda. What do you think that is? We have a house together, and originally he was leaving it to me & I was not going to fight for anything else. Then when he came back he seemed to want to fix everything around the house in a hurry & told me we should sell it & then I could buy a "smaller house". Well, our home is large for one person, but its HOME. I have no family & nowhere else to go & it was HIM that chose to abandon it all. He has said he will leave me the house this time, & take some stuff. But I dont give a hoot about furniture or stereos etc. I can eventually buy another. He doesnt see that material possessions have never been that important to me, that it was the HEART that counts.<p>Once, in my absence, he criticized me to a friend that I "care more about the marriage, than my job". Well, ?? YES!! Don't most people! Any insight & advice appreciated.

Against The Wind,

I know this is not probably going to be what you want to hear, but you should start talking with an attorney. adams is correct.

You can only play the game for so long. When the deck is stacked against you, it's time to walk away from the table.

It took me years to figure that out. My WW put myself and my family through hell.

Well she can have it, because I am not going to live in here hell any longer. I would suggest you do the same.

Start making arrangements to better yourself and your life, you owe it to yourself.

Stay Strong!

Wallace