Well The WS is now living in misery with her convict boyfriend. He is so predictable. He's getting drunk every day and things are wild at their house. Lowlifes showing up all hours of the night ; constant noise , no peace ; hes incredibly dependant; can't stand a minute with her out of his sight. She confided all this to me this morning. She is miserable, but not ready to throw in the towell.<p>She also admitted he is smoking pot dispite the risk of getting tossed back in jail for parole violation. He gets notice of his drug test dates and figures he will buy some stuff that masks the THC in the blood. So, I could get him tossed back in jail with a phone call to his PO. One random unexpected test and hes history.<p>The thing is though, that their relationship is on it's way out, but not over yet. I almost think it's better to let him stay out and sink his own ship with his insane manic behavior. Now he's running her ragged , on the other hand, he does so much better from jail, no real life to ruin all his fantasy promises. <p>What do you think?, would you submarine the ****head, or would you let him sink in his own good time. I'm thinking, if I send him back, she will not have had her fill of him, and the letters and phone calls will start up again. Also word may get back to him that I was involved, and he could cry to her that I'm such a villain for ratting on him. <p>On the other hand , she may be crying out for me to fix this situation before she gets in more trouble or gets hurt.<p>Opinions?

beleive it or not she may be in danger. you could call his work and inform them of his problem without leaving your name. you could call the police without leaving your name. drugs is nothing to ingnore.

Thanks for the response. True it may not make sense to ignore it. Can't call work he has no job, can't even call police they are corrupt and are his relatives this includes a judge. Only choice would be his parole officer don't know how he would proceed with the Judge on OMs side.

Dear David:<p>I know you are in the process of D. I don't know which plan you are following. Regardless, have you restricted your childrens' visits to that household? If he ever does anything around the kids, I would call immediately. Not to end the A but to protect your children.<p>
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Well The WS is now living in misery with her convict boyfriend. He is so predictable. He's getting drunk every day and things are wild at their house. Lowlifes showing up all hours of the night ; constant noise , no peace ; hes incredibly dependant; can't stand a minute with her out of his sight. She confided all this to me this morning. She is miserable, but not ready to throw in the towell. <hr></blockquote><p>
I think that tells you all you need to know. As bad as it is she is not going to leave him. She has to help herself. Please just protect yourself and the kids.<p>You will end up being the bad guy. All you can do is provide a safe haven for W. However; the primary haven should be for your children, not W.<p>I hope this makes sense.<p>All my best to you.<p>Jack

david,
H2Y (husband2you) has been going through stuff like this for 3 years. He would tell you to call. She may not ever get her "fill" and have the guts to end it with him. He's probably a predator, and will continue to hang around and hold her trapped in that relationship. THat's what has happened in H2Y's situation.<p>Like you said, she may get hurt, and the whole family make "sink" before he does. SHe'll always be the mother of your children. <p>I think you should call.<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

I have been plan Bing for a while now ;I just gave up and filed the D when she moved in with him. My hearts not in the D though; I still care for her. <p>She volunteers information when we are discussing visitation. The girls live with me, no contact allowed at all with him, and no overnight visits to their house.<p>Yea, after all this hell, she feels compelled to stay, pretty telling stuff, but I sometimes feel she would welcome a way out like he gets tossed back in and she sighs with relief. Particlarly if it's not because of her leaving but instead because he just could not straighten up even with her living there and supporting him. <p>He has her believeing that he will go back to a life a crime if she leaves him, so she feels so guilty that she stays in a living hell. She said this morning "if I left and he went back to the pen or killed himself I would never be able to live with myself"

IMHO. honestly I think it is a no win situation, and yes you should cll your lawyer and protect JUST your children.. <p>if he is related to the law.. most likely they all know already what he is all about... and it seems in our society, no one stays locked up for too long.. it is a never ending battle with drugs.. <p>I my self know some one, that we work with, that has a huge problem, and her son has been in and out of hospitals, because she and he are both alcoholics, and druggies.. they keep letting him out, and he keeps having to go back in, but it is never long enough to clean up.. there is too much withdrawl time.. <p>I would go and get a protection order.. and always have things legally on paper.. just in case of any future problems, that may involve you.. you just never know now a days.. <p>good luck to you<p>AV

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He has her believeing that he will go back to a life a crime if she leaves him, so she feels so guilty that she stays in a living hell. She said this morning "if I left and he went back to the pen or killed himself I would never be able to live with myself"
<hr></blockquote><p>Yep. H2Y's W is stuck in a similar situation. He always thought he was being nice and letting her be a "big girl" by not ever calling the police when OM broke the protective order. THe one time in 3 years he got fed up and called and all of a sudden he was the "Bad guy". One time in 3 years!! Of course that passed with time, so it didn't make that much difference in the overall scheme of things. <p>He's not posting these days, but he would tell you to CALL.<p>And good for you!!!! for keeping your girls away from him!!!<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

I have to go against the grain here and say, NO, NO, NO and NO DO NOT CALL! Your wife or stbxw IS a grown woman (even if she isn't acting like one) and is making her own decisions. For you to swoop in and save her from herself is ridiculous - and here is why:
1. We can't protect people from themselves, only they can do that. Each one of us has to learn (and some learn much quicker and easier than others) that we are individually responsible for our happiness and our boundaries. It is an inside job that cannot be done 'for us'.
2. If you do this and she comes back - is it of her own accord? Or was she manipulated into renewing a relationship with you? I am not worried about her being satisfied with the answer to this, but you.
3. You will appear to her to be the strong and safe man that you are by NOT RESCUING her - by protecting your children and by moving on with your life away from this dangerous situation. This will make you more desirable to her. In essence what you will be saying is this, "I love you and trust you enough to know what you are doing - I don't question your choices for yourself, but from where I sit, I need to stay away from this situation you have chosen for yourself." You are telling her it is UP TO HER to come to the party of life. It is up to her to choose what it is she really wants. Let it be up to her. It is the only way.<p>Good luck.

What a total mess. This would be my suggestions for what it is worth.
1) I would tell the PO because it looks pretty clear that she could be in grave danger and it will be a matter of time before something bad will probably happen to her.
2) Go through with the divorce and eventually find someone else who will love and respect you and the concept of marriage. Your hopefully soon to be exwife is absolutely toxic to you and your children.<p>I wish you luck

Believe me wiffle, I felt the same way, and for most situations, your reasoning is the way to go. And it may prove to be the best way here as well. I just know that once these women get in this situation of the manipulative predator LEECH... a huge dose of reality and the legal system to back it up may be what's needed. Of course there's no guarantees. <p>Because of the stuff I quoted above from david. Part of that is regular WS waffling, but part of it is the serious mind-control by the OM.<p>WW wouldn't dare admit she *wants* to be rescued, and she's certainly not healthy NEEDING to be rescued, but that may be what has to be done to get him away from her.<p>We're not talking about david being a codependent that is taking care of an alcoholic. We're talking about a dangerous guy that's with his W, and potentially around his kids.<p>Just my opinion though.<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Good point about the danger to the kids. He is a career criminal , and if he had to go back in, he would have a long remaining sentence to serve.<p>On the other hand, the kids have not been exposed to him ; she has been good about that. She knows all visitation can and will be revoked if she violates that rule.<p>I'm inclined to agree that , if I intervene , I will be the bad guy and I will be interfering in the natural course of things. Her life is pretty pitiful now and to tell you the truth, I think , as the final D in July grows closer, she will have had enough of his crap and she will propose reconciliation with me. I may consider it, but we will still start from scratch after the D is final with her proving something to me for a change. Then , if things work out we can remarry.<p>She must save herself ; she must decide to change for her not for me, the marriage or anything else other than herself, and she must break free of him on her own. Otherwise she will remain subject to the power he has over her for years to come.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by david87:
<strong>Good point about the danger to the kids. He is a career criminal , and if he had to go back in, he would have a long remaining sentence to serve.<p>On the other hand, the kids have not been exposed to him ; she has been good about that. She knows all visitation can and will be revoked if she violates that rule.<p>I'm inclined to agree that , if I intervene , I will be the bad guy and I will be interfering in the natural course of things. Her life is pretty pitiful now and to tell you the truth, I think , as the final D in July grows closer, she will have had enough of his crap and she will propose reconciliation with me. I may consider it, but we will still start from scratch after the D is final with her proving something to me for a change. Then , if things work out we can remarry.<p>She must save herself ; she must decide to change for her not for me, the marriage or anything else other than herself, and she must break free of him on her own. Otherwise she will remain subject to the power he has over her for years to come.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with you David and with wiffle.<p>Frankly it smells like a manipulation tactic on the part of WW because she knows that you are now comitted to divorcing her. Ask yourself if she would be telling you all of this if she knew that you were still waiting for her to return?<p>David your attorney should use the fact that she is involved with a career criminal to help your cause of becoming the custodial parent. I too have an xWW who had a liking to career criminals as lovers and in the end this - along with a child endangerment charge against her - got the court to grant me sole custody of our two daughters. I don't need to remind you of it but it is our duty as fathers to protect our children even from their own mothers stupidity, so use the facts about OM to further said protection. <p>Faith:<p>If David's WW is in any way involved with any of OM's criminal activities, the courts will not buy the 'poor little ol' me I was a victim of a predator' argument. She is not a child and the courts will tell her that she should have known better than to get involved with a career criminal. Besides even if David decided to reach out to help her by calling the authorities to OM's criminal activities, WW - beign in the fog -will pay him by labeling him the bad guy who 'destroyed her soulmate' [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] So even if David did the noble thing, he would still lose with his stbxw.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So even if David did the noble thing, he would still lose with his stbxw. <hr></blockquote><p>I figured he would rather have an alive, drug-free XW and mother of their kids, even if she IS an XW instead of a W.<p> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Faith1:
<strong><p>I figured he would rather have an alive, drug-free XW and mother of their kids, even if she IS an XW instead of a W.<p> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree, but ultimately it is her decision to be that and not his.

No real issue as of now with custody. I was deemed primary custodal parent in an agreed separation in March 2001, then we agreed to file irreconcilable differences with me still as primary custodian for this D that id pending now. She basically signed away primary custody 2 times. The girls are protected, and she knows better than to fight me on this. She knows , with her association with him, it's a losing battle. So lucky for me , no court fight, just an emotional one.

Have you considered contacting any of the women's organizations that help women trapped in abusive relationships? They might be able to help your WW if she really wants to end her relationship with OM by letting her know that help is available if she wants it.

Intertesting thought, but she's not ready to leave him yet and she admitts she's staying of her own accord. If she ever actually reaches out for help to end it, I will do whatever it takes to assist. <p>I'm afraid the complaints are just her working on her backup plan (coming back home later after the A burns out) Not any real danger for her at this time, at least thats my take from talking with her. She wants to make sure the old standy security blanket is still waiting in the wings.