K - I've noticed you seem to be the resident expert on the Harley books and concepts. I am looking for advice on Plan A while wife is moved out into her apt, and still early in passionate affair? How long and does it work and what are some of the best ideas to deposit love units when wife is in withdrawal from marriage, into affair and not even considering us? Would plan B work when she is on her own and early in the affair, or is it better after they have cooled off a bit? I went back and read your posts to "buster" i think about 2-3 months ago, about these plans. I have yet to read many posts from women who left home and came back? Is that rare?

Izzy,<BR>Just want you to know that I'm following your posts with great interest. It seems you and I and Chris are in the minority. Help us out here guys...... Are there any success stories with the W moving out and ever coming back for good??<P>Izzy... Go Plan A as long as you can stand it... There is no real time limit on this... Only do Plan B when you have lost hope and can't handle Plan A... Your W needs to have some conflict in her relationship with OM. I think by her knowing that you are still loving and being supportive toward her during her recent family crisis ( death of her grandparent ) Hopefully she will start to miss you and think of you while she is with the OM.... Does any of that make sense???<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

Plan B is for you. Do not use it simply to try & get her to come back. Use it if you are lovebusting constantly and or feel your love for her draining rapidly<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A> <BR>

izzy,<P>I'd ask you before you make a decision or take advice, that you first do your homework by ordering and reading "Surviving an Affair". You can get a synopsis of Plans A and B here: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html</A> <P>How was your marriage prior to the affair? If you were doing a lot of lovebusting, have you changed? I suggest plan A for you if the following is true:<P>1. You lovebusted lots prior to discovering the affair (or after it).<P>2. You haven't yet established a consistant track record (3-6 months) of "new-izzy" behavior that has completely eliminated lovebusters.<P>3. You can emotionally handle Plan A (elimination of lovebusters) without going nuts. And if you do need to go nuts, it cannot be directed at your wife.<P>In Plan A for you, you'll have it easy in some ways because you'll have very little contact with your wife. You should strive to show consistant, loving behaviors. Don't worry about meeting her needs... her "wankboy" will be doing that. We'll all hope that he's not up to the task. Your primary focus is to show a remarkable, non-punishing, loving attitude to her and a willingness to work on the marriage.<P>Now...<P>If you have done this already, for a long period of time (6+ months), or you're feeling as if you can't deal with the situation without lovebusting (regardless of your "plan A efforts"), then you probably should be into plan B (no contact). Write the letter stating that you want a chance to make the marriage better, and that you're willing to do what it takes. But that contact with her is too painful while the affair is ongoing. As Chris points out: plan B is for YOU---it's about the mode you need to be in as you find your lovebank running dry for your wife.<P>And yes, you do have an uphill fight for this. I separated from my wife (but it was because she wouldn't end the affair), and we have reunited. But its hard work, and a long process.

Izzy, <BR>Plan A is good if you can handle giving all you have and not recieving a thing in return. Many of the love units I was depositing seemed to have no affect on W because there were so many others meeting all her needs. Recently I started Plan B. This got her attention and now I am in an A-B combination. I may have been smothering her with Plan A. Now I am starting to make love deposits and then go underground for a few days. She usually will circle around. I think the deposits are having more of an impact because many of W's friends have bailed on her. I've tried to communicate committment to her. She told me last night that even though there is no OM in her life right now she still plans on dating others. That hurts!<BR>My advice: <BR>1) Develop an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. Attend church and build relationships with other christians.<BR>2) Rebuild your marriage as far as possible by using MB techniques and others. Read the books listed throughout this forum.<BR>3)Pray!<BR>God Bless You!<BR>

K - thank you for the advice. I have read the Surviving book and all the articles. I still am a little unsure of how plan A can be effective when your wife is AWOL. Well, I am considered by my wife and others as stable, safe, somewhat simple, nice, don't get angry, and very understanding. I don't think I did alot of lovebusting in our marriage before the affair started. She told me 2 days after her "date" with OM, she had this attraction and spark with the OM. I told her she should probably stay away from OM, but did not make any demands. Even after I noticed her sneaking around, I told her I trusted her to do what she needed to do to figure things out. (I was naive about the way affairs start and how intense they get, I now know she was obsessed like within the first week). <BR>I don't think the lovebusters aspect had a big impact on our marriage, but I do believe in the last 6-12 months, I started slipping into "taken for granted" status and did not effectively meet or was I aware of her important emotional needs. Read my profile I updated it a little. Like most instances, she never directly told me about her unhappiness and what was missing in her life for her. I am reading the "After the Affair" book by Mrs. Spring, and that gives more thoughts on what she may be experiencing/missing that led to the affair. It sounds like Plan A can work for me, but wow it's hard to put on a good face all the time, when nothing is coming back. It has only been like 3-4 weeks. I did plan A when she was home for 3 weeks (after separation discussion/marital withdrawal by her) and she left with good impression. Their affair is now about 10 weeks old. How long was your wife in the affair, and what is the track record for how long it may last? <BR>I saw her this morning (unexpected) and afterwards I had to cry. It just hurts to see her. Interesting behavior: At home she got to work on her 3 days by 7:30 (30 min drive)when i took child to daycare. Today i was dropping off childs bag by her car she just got there (8:30, 10 min drive), and other times I know she has come in after 8, especially when child is not there. Was looking really beautiful, with long skirt, but no hose. Used to wear hose all the time. Wearing more makeup and perfect hair. I guess this is usual with "sexual awakening" she feels she has had. We work about 1/2 mile apart.<BR>I can do Plan A, and like you said maybe if I see her less it will be easier to do. My lovebank is definitely still there for her, but I guess with more rejection/no feedback it could get diminished. Right now I am thinking like 2 more months of plan A. I don't know if more plan A would be helpful, and plan B might wake her up more (I know even though the plan is for me).<BR>Based on what I have read and what she has said, I feel we can rebuild our marriage I think we had just gotten into a rut where we were not meeting each others needs, connecting, or talking. Though the "passion" sexual aspect has always been there, and that is what she is basing most of her decision on.<BR> <BR>

izzy,<P>I guess, based on what you've said, I'd stick it out in plan A for a while. You're absolutely right in that it's very frustrating when your major failure was meeting her needs, and now she's off getting them met by the OM. Again, I'd suggest that you wait a bit to give her a Plan B letter---it'll escalate the reality to her, but it should be done mainly for your health and how you feel about her. <P>Has she moved out at this time, or are you out of the house? And who has physical custody of your daughter? If you're home with the daughter---I'd recommend sticking with plan A for as long as you can. Reality should come crashing back to her pretty quick.<P>My wife met her OM online. It became a physcial affair after about 8 months. I found out about it a couple months later, and it lasted an additional 9 months. I did plan A for 5 months, Plan B for a couple months (I left), and then a return to home and Plan A while the affair withered away (she was pregnant by the OM by then). So it can take some time...

k - My wife moved out to an apt on Aug 16 (4 days before anniversary !! ugh). Sad to think she was with OM on our anniversary week/date... Anyway we are sharing custody of daughter at this time. Child spends nights equally (every other wknd) at our homes. Previously I had offered to have daughter primarily stay with me in our house, but wife kinda freaked about it. Said no way she would 'visit' our daughter, or feel like she is being given rights to have her visit her. I thought reaction was interesting. Based on the divorce/children thread being posted on this site, I am contemplating (down the road, if OM still in picture) filing for sole custody. I have always felt strongly about our daughter not being exposed to OM, and wife would not commit to otherwise. I did ask her to wait at least a month after moving out. Allow for our daughter (3 in NOV) to transition to two homes first. As of now I dont think daughter has seen OM yet. At the same time, i understand i cant control actions of wife, and also child could help to impact reality on OM and create conflict for them. OM is single, early 30's not sure if he realizes what kids are about. Thanks again for your advice, I am gaining strength to keep up plan A. I actually think I am only going to contact her after she looks for me and I won't initiate much. Does that sound okay? She knows how I feel about giving our marriage another chance, but I don't want her thinking I'm just pining and not moving on with life. She seems to call me at least every day to talk about life stuff (child, money, job issues for her...)Sorta like married people are supposed to do? Again, interesting, but I guess that is part of her getting needs met from both men.

I think that's a great plan, izzy. I'd also add that you might want to invite your wife out in family outings every month or so (on weekends where you have "custody"). Keep it fun and light---remember, your wife can choose from 2.5 billion men, but your daughter only has one father. You have a big advantage there.<BR>

K - some more random thoughts and questions? In my sessions with Dr Chalmers, she has said not to ask anything about OM. So do you agree? Not sure what I want to know, except different questions pop into my head daily. Also when I talk to wife, should I ask her about what she thinks our marriage was lacking? Is this not a good time to try to get her to talk about unmet needs, unhappiness or what she was feeling right before the affair? Is that a form of lovebusting where negative stuff is talked about? The whole thing shocked me. We were camping one weekend, next wed on a planned coworkers outing she is left alone with the OM (2 coworkers did not show, OM is like a vendor for them)and STAYS to talk to him for 5 hours. From that she says she has attraction/spark/chemistry with OM, has not felt that way since before us. Do you think that is typical of how affair can start? She had phone contact with OM from work for at least a year, but she said it was usually just casual (though I am sure flirty to a point, the coworkers have told me he is just a friendly guy). Like Dr Harley states that may have been the conversation part where she opened up to someone other than her spouse which is the BIG mistake. ?? I guess I would like more answers from her point of view, but maybe at this point they would be tainted by her affair. BTW, should I tell her I am aware of her still seeing OM, but I would like her to give us another chance and stop seeing the OM? Is that a demand or a request? Would it even register at this time? I know that you looking back to your Plan A time, may bring back memories, but I do appreciate your feedback.

Izzy,<P>If you're counseling with Dr. Chalmers, I'd follow her advice.<P>In general, bringing up the OM will be "unpleasant" for your wife. You want to try avoiding that unpleasantness as much as possible. That being said, I think that there's nothing wrong with letting your wife know that you would like to work on the marriage. You don't have to tell her "but your affair must end..."---she's going to be able to figure that out. And frankly, while she's in the affair, it's more important that your actions (behaviors) show her that you love her and aren't punishing her (which is a strange way to act). As the affair starts to unwind (and they almost all do), you should be continuing to exhibit this "rock solid" new behavior. If you think that conversation was what your wife was missing, then I'd try to pick your spots to communicate. Try to get her talking and you listening; if that doesn't work, talk about non-threatening things that are likely to interest her.<P>She's only been gone a couple weeks. It'll take her some time for the fantasy to end, but I bet it will happen. Especially if your main failings have been unmet needs, and not abuse (lovebusting). Stick with your plan. Have faith in yourself and this process; it works in a surprising number of cases.

K- Thanks for the encouragement, I have renewed vigor for following thru on plan A and for keeping hope. She has called me everyday from out of town, just to talk about our daughter and stuff. I know she still wants us to stay connected, she has said she loves me, (just not strongly passionate/emotional way), but I also know if given the chance I can change that and get that love back also. Thanks again. One day at a time...