I love my W dearly. It hurts so much.
I won't go into the story. My W is indecisive.
She also hasn't signed the D papers.
We chat sometimes and have seen each other a few times. We both went to a concert together last Friday. We get on great.
Is their anybody out there who is happy to stay friends with their spouse 'til they have come out of the "fog" or have you given them the ultimatum?
Please tell me what you would do or what you are doing or what you have done when your spouse has OM/OW in the picture.
I know we endure a lot. But if we have a chance to stay friends with our WAS until they come out of the "fog" do we?
Do we give them a "sharp shock treatment" and say you love them to much to not able to endure this anymore and as long as OM/OW is in the picture I can't see you and maybe this may make them realise that they would be losing you.
Maybe the saying "out of sight out of mind" might apply OR "absence makes the heart grow fonder".
Hmmm, what do I do? I have told her I cannot go on like this and said we should break communication as she doesn't know what she wants.
Now I am regretting it. I was supposed to be going round her grandmothers house today for lunch and W was going to come down to my house too prune the flowers.
But then she goes back to her parents. It kills me. OM works with her. He only came into the picture when we were separated last January. I pushed her away. What I mean is I switched off so she saw comfort in this guy. He was there for her and I still think its a rebound.
Now we have been S for 17 months.
She did say not so long ago she wouldn't know what to do if she never saw me again.
Do I go back on what I said and ring her to say I would rather be your friend and have you in my life than not at all...I could play pyschological games with OM as he I understand gets peeved off when she talks or sees me. W tells him she misses me and still thinks of me. Yet I think she does of him to. Please help..

Follow your heart and give her a call and see what happens. You are only on this planet for a very short time. What do you really have to lose?
I wish you luck.

I don't agree this time with Bryanp. A 16 month separation should have been enough time by your wife to make a decision to either work on the marriage or move on. Unfortunately what happens in these kind of situations is it becomes a lifestyle in which she has 2 men fighting for her. There is no incentive to stop. She becomes an expert in manipulating her bf and her husband to keep up their interest in her. In my opinion this will go indefinitely unless you make the decision not to play this game. Either she wants to be married to you or not. There is nothing in the marriage vows that states that it is all right to have another man in her life while she is married. As long as you enable her to sit on the fence she will. As things stand right now you don't have a marriage and might as well be divorced. If she sees that you are ready to move on it will bring this melodrama to a close. Life is not meant to be lived on a emotional rollercoaster. Good luck

Thank you Tom for your input.
It is nice to hear different opinions.
This is so tricky. I am tempted to do what Bryan says but I have tried since January "the new me".
After W told me about becoming intimate with OM (work colleague) in December I cried, begged etc.
This I must say was a "wake up call" for me. During the months of last year I thought W was going to come back. I was a little cocky in my attitude and NEVER ever dreamt this would happen.
W was vulnerable and her emotional needs were met by OM. Before that W was grieving badly for me but was admanent of not coming back. All of last year I had been chasing her. Maybe though it is time too back off.
You see it says in DB book that what is OM doing that you haven't been doing? What attracts W to OM?
Well according too W we are two different people. I have heard her say OM is kind and gentle. He is laid back, calm and doesn't get stressed. However she says he is arrogant and they don't connect. They are like chalk and cheese.
I have been doing my homework. I do know and have met OM when he was still married to his W. I know he is not W type. He even says he doesn't laugh at the same things as W. Doesn't share the same humour. So we have positive and negative things here.
I have been trying to be more kind and gentle since I discovered this relationship. W has noticed many changes in me but still it goes on with OM. She did once say she was "sitting on the fence".
My dilemma is if I keep this distance from her then she will not be able to see if my "changes" are permanent. She knows how I feel and when I have written poems and cards showing her how much I love her she says she knows all that. So then I think to myself I have to do this and break away to hopefully "shake" her up. Give her food for thought. She has no incentive to make that decision or at least break away from OM.
Sometimes I think that OM is nothing more than just a friend. Somebody she feels "safe" with. Something she doesn't yet feel with me. Another reason why by breaking away from W is not going to be a good thing.
Why shouldn't I believe W when she tells me she stays in his spare bedroom when she stays there. His 6 year old daughter sleeps in his bed.
W enjoys his company and I know he is in limbo to. He wonders why W comes to his house when she tells him she still thinks of me and also tells him she misses me.
W is really in the "fog" and maybe their needs to be a break. I really don't think she wants to be with OM for life. He has offered W "the world". She knows he would do anything for her.
W has said I have been very patient with her. It is still the trust issue with her. She did say to her parents and me that if OM and me were hanging off a cliff that she would save me first everytime.
Both she and her parents have said you have answered your question??
This is what I am saying. "Out of sight out of mind". Enduring more of this and being her friend so 1. she can see my changes are permanent and fall back in love with me
2. Too p*ss off OM so he breaks first.
This is a toughy.
I thank you guys for your input and I would welcome more opinions please.

oops. see below.<p>ALso, dont be closed minded as to seeking counseling for yourself. It DOES help!<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: AgainstTheWind ]</p>

Having been thru fighting desperately to save marriage only to have WH continue to act like I am invisible, I tend to agree with what Tomaz said above. It has been a while.<p>Even though your wife may be confused, you can never 2nd guess her actions or reasons for it. ANd you can't convince her of anything. Any changes she makes have to come from within herself. I have been knocking myself out trying to make H see he was hurting me desperately & his crisises have lead him into a state of mind and preceptions where he NEEDS counseling. He refused. His actions have been unspeakable emotionally.<p>Don't drag it out. You are only hurting yourself. And don't make excuses for their actions. I suffered with a H that was very spiteful and vindictive and flaunted his affair under my nose. I caught him in many lies and he STILL denied it and blames me for everything. DId I seek solace in the company of another man?? NO!!! Did you seek solace in the company of another woman?? It looks like NO!! THEY ARE FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS, AS YOU ARE YOURS. <p>You talk about changes, but it seems to be just for the benefit of your wife. Well, she could have reacted differently. She did not have to go to this man. The changes you make in yourself need to be for YOU, regardless of anything else. They should be positive changes you want to make for a boost in your self esteem, communications, job skills, independence, . . whatever. There should be no conditions to it . . no "if's". You may bust your behind trying to "win" her back and it may not happen that way. Then you will be at rock bottom trying to pick up the pieces. Maybe you can do the "Plan A" thing. It is for YOU yourself only - a self improvement. Then if spouse notices & wants to change themselves too, then good. But that may not happen. In that case you have still learned something about yourself that would benefit you in all your friendships or any new relationships.<p>They say "Plan B" is only if you feel the love you have left will die otherwise. That the situation is too difficult & it would be better for your mental well being if you didnt have any contact with other person. Again, they may realize what they are missing & return. .. but they may not also! I know . . I especially feel "damned if you do and damned if you don't". But we're not alone.<p>Go thru the introductory pages outside of the Forums and read excerpts from the books etc. Hope it helps. Don't give OM a 2nd thought. Trying to piss him off won't do any good in the long run, just send your wife closer to him! The OW in my case lied straight to my face about working on her own M when she was in reality filind D!! Then went to my H & lied & twisted things to such an extent he'd rather believe her than me, whom he has know 15 years!!! The Fog/ Crisis/ Depression may as well be an alien abduction. The other person is relishing in the quick sand and does NOT want out of it.Even if we throw a safety net, they'll ignore it cause it wasnt from OP.

I agree with Tomaz.

You have to search your heart for what you truly want and are capable of enduring... and be truthful with yourself and your situation.

If you go to a Plan B, be prepared.

Why has she not signed the D papers?

She is FENCE SITTING, make no mistake about it.

Nothing changes when nothing changes. It's obvious that what your doing is not gaining you any ground.

Time for a change, but make sure your ready for it, and can live with the outcome if it is not in your favor. Otherwise keep it as is, and try to Plan A a whole lot better.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

You need to believe in yourself. You need to believe that you are worthy of a woman's love. You need to believe that you deserve to be respected by those around you including your wife. You have made your feelings known to your wife that you want to rebuild your marriage. You have planned A but she has continued to live with the OM. Dr.Harley will tell you that as long as the betrayer continues contact with the affair partner there is no possibility of reconciling. She is continuing to have intimate relations with this OM regardless of what she tells you. Unless the OM is an enuch he is having sex with her. The point is if it looks like there is hanky panky there is. Your wife is trying to make the whole thing look innocent to make sure that you stay around just in case it doesn't work out with the OM. To say that she is sitting on the fence is not true. She has picked the OM over you. Otherwise she would not be staying or living with him. Her behaviour shows no respect for you. My advice is to get back the control over your life. I would recommend that you proceed to Plan B.

Hey Wallace
good advice.
W is sitting on the fence, she has said so b4.
I am willing too endure more 'cos I love her so much and I know sometimes by what she says and her actions that maybe there is hope for me.
What is plan A and B in my case??
Would I lose credibility if I contacted her and explain what I said on Saturday is because I thought we had a great time on Friday at the concert and then you tell me you are going to a wedding party with OM and I just got a little upset. Maybe we can stay friends? Contact is to my benefit, is it not?
W and I should be D'd now. I sent off court papers 6th February in response. I have heard nothing since. No decree nisi...zilch. I asked the W 2 months after about not receiving anything and she said you would've have. W said her solicitor had been trying to get hold of her weeks before but she said she has always been too busy. Even now she has ignored the solicitor.
So what does this say?
I think it would really HIT her for six if and when we do D. So YES maybe I/we could come out of this if she is still undecided. It is between OM and me. He makes her feel "safe", is "kind & gentle". She really HAS to see these things in me.
I have the other qualities BUT she persists on going to his house for tea and sometimes staying over and apparently getting closer to his 6 year old daughter.
I honestly believe she hasn't got over me. I know she still misses me and thinks of me everyday.
I can endure more if I am honest. But am I getting anywhere? No more concerts to go to.
W is unbelievably in the "fog".
Her family cannot make head of tail of her actions. How long can a spouse be in this fog??

smileysmile,

Right now you are in a fight for your W, if you want your M, bad enough.

You say that she has not gotten over you yet... well that is a plus for you. You need to show her that you are the better man, if that's what you are willing to do.

You still have contact with her don't you? Well then I would read as much as you can from this site and get some books as well, and start fighting for your M.

Start doing a PLan A, now! If you are not sure what or how to do it, then I suggest you read what is on this site, and get as much info on this situation as you can.

If you feel like your loosing ground you may have to go to Plan B. and start saying prayers, and put God into the picture.

If you are willing to do the work and endure the ups and downs, because your going to probably have plenty of them before this thing is all said and down with... then show her that your the man she loved and chose to marry. That is one plus in your favor. The down side is you need to get her attention off the OM without looking like a wimp.

Communicate, communicate, communicate... but don't smother her. Get your self respect and self esteem back up to snuff and go to work.
Think positive, and don't use any LB's while you are in Plan A.

It can be done, it's not a guarantee that you will get her back, but look at it this way. If your willing to endure like you said you were then what doyou have to lose.

Good Luck!

Stay Strong!

Wallace