I know this is a personal and difficult question to answer. I am trying so hard to find the answer for myself.

I, too, am struggling with this question. My decision is compounded by my WS's personality disorder. I know the terribly horrible, hurtful things that my WS does are not being done to me, but rather out of frustration with WS's self. It's so hard to remember that. <p>As for me, I think I am getting to the point where I no longer even like my WS. One of WS's relatives is visiting with S while I type this. I went out of the room for a short time, and they both started laughing very loudly. I just really believe some days that I would rather start a new life than stay with the one I have.<p>As my IC tells me...no matter which decision I make, I lose. Something is lost either way; it's just deciding what the lesser of the evils is as far as the decision is concerned.<p>Do you feel that your S brings out the best in you? Are you happier when you're with them? Tell me more about your situation.

Sad1, you may regret asking for more information after reading this... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] This is copied/pasted from my initial post in another forum. I hope it is not too much!<p>My story is this: H. (31) and I (28) have been together for six years, living together for five of those six years. We have been married for just over three years now. We have a beautiful child together who just turned two. From the beginning of our relationship, we have had a lot of problems communicating with one another. This, of course, has led us down a dangerous path. We both are the type of people to bottle things inside, and I am very much a peace-keeper. I usually tend to do whatever it takes to avoid controversy as a result of my own childhood. A few months into our relationship, I discovered that he had lied to me about being with his 'ex-girlfriend' over the course of a few months. Looking back I can see how easily I turned the other cheek, though I have never completley trusted him since then. So really our whole relationship has been tainted by his dishonesty.<p>In February of this year, I found e-mails between he and a female co-worker that suggested things were getting more than friendly and that they were talking on the cell phone and from our home phone when I was not around. Of course, I knew nothing of this person from him. I confronted him after finding records on his cell phone. He would call her as soon as I left the house. He admitted they had become 'friends' and played the guilt trip on me about not having friends, he gets along much better with women than men, she is having personal/job problems, etc. He said he would end the relationship and talk more to me about things. <p>In early March, I had to go out of town when I found out my grandmother was dying. I dreaded the trip, as I didn't feel comfortable leaving him alone. I installed a program on the computer (that I saw suggested here at MB) before I left. I found out while I was away that they were indeed still talking and making plans to go on dates while I was away. I kept up with their activities while I was away, but did not confront him. He sent her flowers, took her out to dinner, for susnset walks on the beach, and spent time at her house. It was so difficult to deal with this as well as my grandmother's passing. He didn't even offer to come be with me when she died. From our phone conversations while I was away, he could tell something was up with me but wasn't sure I knew anything. He did end the relationship (as far as I know) before I came home according to the computer records. I confronted him once I got home, and saw an attorney. <p>We had been in counseling before, and started going again. He, of course, was so sorry and did not want to lose me or our child. I decided to try to make things work. Since that time, things are surfacely going well with him looking for other work, telling me of each time he sees/talks to her at work. Our communication has not improved, though. And I find it hard to let go of the affair. I really have never felt as if I can talk to him about anything. I realize now after all this time how guarded I have felt I have to be with him. I just feel so dead inside, and am not sure if I will ever love him again and especially if I will ever trust him. I feel that my heart is not in it to make it work, and just wonder if that is normal. I just wish I knew how I was supposed to feel and what the answers are. I can't help but wonder if I would be better off on my own, as our relationship has not been based on the best foundation from day one. I honestly feel as if I would eventually be happier apart from him, but feel like such a failure - both at my marriage and as a mother.

Hi,
Difficult subject. I spent the last year exploring that one. I really wanted to be sure. You know what I discovered. It's not ever over until you make that choice for it to be over. There can always be a reason to doubt and a reason to feel like it is over. I don't mean that you have a chance for it working necessarily, because it takes two to work at it and if one doesn't want to, then that person has made a choice for it to be over for them. For me it was when I exhausted all avenues of getting us on the right track and H is still messed up, refuses to see it, acknowledge it and do anything about it. There is always hope, but some things aren't worth the price you have to pay for them . It's all about choices, commitments. Unfortunatly, the outcome may not be what we desired because everything is based on two people's choices, rather than one persons. Now, I think one person demanding to contol the outcome to best suite them, is the whole reason some couples get into trouble to begin with.<p>As far as knowing when it's over. I have found that to be one of the most difficult questions of all times to answer. I did make a choice one day to move on and call it over. Was it over? I don't know, I'm still working on it. I think when two people want to, and have God helping them it's possible to overcome anything, on the other hand the smallest of problems can totally wreck a life. Sorry, I have probably confused more than clarified here.

Giniagal,<p>No, I am not sorry I asked about your situation, but I am sorry for the pain you are feeling. My situation is very similar to yours. I would go to church and try to call home only to find the line always busy. I would go to my parents and try to call home with the same result. WS was always very interested in where I was going and when I would be home. This was about a year ago, and despite two different counselors and a multitude of promises, I still feel it's continuing. My WS also works with the OP, and the A was going on for several years before I realized it. Cell phones, phone cards, missing money, always talking about this person were all the signs. Another coworker told me this was not the only one he's been with either.<p>The big difference between our stories is that we do not have children. You really need to think about the impact this will have on your child as well as how it's affecting you.<p>Can you afford individual counseling? If you can, you should go. It helps me gain strength and figure out what I want to do. <p>I understand the feeling of failure, but think about the fact that either decision you make, something will be lost. That will help you in deciding what is the greater loss.

AgainstTheWind,<p>First of all, you are NOT a failure as a mother or a wife. I just want you to know I have been in your shoes. When I read your story, I was thinking ditto. I figured if my H could cheat on our relationship, lie to me about it and only act remorseful when caught and confronted, that it was not too much to ask for some lines of communication. But he doesn't like to talk about anything unpleasant, he doesn't have a problem doing those things, but poor guy just can't bring himself to discuss any problems. <p>Honey, I've been dealing with this for 20 years, talk about wanting to be a peacekeeper. It will eat you alive if you let it. I kept thinking I could sacrifice, compensate and whatever to keep my family living as a unit at least till the kids got older. Well, the kids are older, we are all a unit, although it is not a happy, peaceful, fulfilling, rewarding life we dreamed of. We walk on eggshell to keep H from going off on one of his hitting, screaming tangents. It is sooooo very stressful. I have got to get out. I truly wish I was smarted and had gotten out years ago, when the kids were younger, and we could be so much further along on our road to recovery. But I never knew when it was over for sure, until I made a choice for it to be.<p>You take care of your feelings and don't ever let him blame you for his A's. He may have been influenced in his choice to have them based on his feelings but bottom line is HE CHOOSE TO HAVE THEM!! I'm sure if he had consulted with you, you have have discouraged it , am I right? HIS CHOICE. In the end, all I really needed from my H was to communicate to be able to overcome the pain. It would have meant everyhting if he would have been sorry, shown me he was remorseful, even asked what he could do to make it up to me. But no, he acted like I caused him to do it, blamed me, actually felt pitty for himself for going through these uncomfortable times, because it was my fault and eventually that became his trademark. Do what ever you want, blame it on the fact that I caused him to do it, seek pity for himselfblah,blah,blah.<p>Learn all you can, make educated decisions and if it takes 20 years for him to come around, he probably isn't going to. I wish I had set some goals as guidelines a long time ago. I have told myself it will get better for so long that I must have been in a comma. 20 years is too long to keep trying for me.<p>Good Luck

Have you been following the marriage builders 4 rules of recovery? Has a no contact letter been written.<p>It seems to me that your H can't really work on making you happy until he goes through withdrawal and gets this other person out of the picture. If he doesn't, you're probably doomed to feel the way you are feeling because H will not change.<p>I suggest you try and Plan A for a while and see if H will work on filling out the questionaires and work on filling your EN's - after he sends a no contact letter. <p>If he chooses not to, then you know where you stand and you'll have a better idea of whether it is over or not. <p>The MB prinicples and Plan A and Plan B are good tools, and it doesn't hurt to try them. The result will either be an incredible marriage or the same place you'd be without them - divorce - except, you'd be a much better and healed person. So you really can't lose.<p>K

somehow posted twice. see below instead<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: AgainstTheWind ]</p>

Oops. I think Free Indeed meant that post for you, Ggal. I wasnt on this thread. But from Free's other post, I have been blabbing on. I want to know the answer too. H & I don't have kids either. But I have been dragged down into the mud (as Free Indeed has read) and there has been NO response from my H. None. No sign of caring or effort at all. He only comes back to the house around 11PM to sleep - on the family room floor. We barely speak a word. I still find it very hard to accept that its possible for him not to give a damn about me after all these years??? (15). I am forcing myself to try & let go. To say to myself he is who he is NOW, and no matter what I do, I cant change it. He will only change when and if HE wants to, and these days I do not see that happening. Its been 1 year that I have tried everything to no avail. And recently suspected a lie & found H parked at OW place, after I thought it was over. GRRR. My 10th anniversary passing by without incident and this cinched it. I am trying to develop a -to heck with him- attitude for my own sanity.<p>I am finding it very hard though. I still want to care for the "little boy" I know has gotten lost deep inside. But my councelor asked me "Why am I punishing myself" and I don't know the answer!! Why!!??? I am trying to find ME again, she got lost along the way. I have become incapacitated as far as setting goals for myself - I JUST CANT!! ANd this annoys me. I have a major block as to why am I stuck? Why cant I decide on a goal and stick with it? AARGH!<p>ANyway, see the posts I bumped about
"ACCEPTING them as they are" and
"LETTING go". See if the article excerpts make any sense to you. It is what helped me start this new journey. Free Indeed is ahead of me in this game we call life! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] My user name till last month was 'cantletgo'. I am working on letting go now.

you just wrote me life, for me!! kinda scary.
i found out in Feb that my husband was messing around w/a girl from work. I found out through e-mails as well! Then in April I found out about another one.. I kicked him out, and now he is living with her.
We have 2 children together, and I have 3 step-children. Been married 11 years this August.
I filed on the 12th of this month.
But I am so confused.
The boys and I are doing fine, I just cant go on. I still love him.