Just looking for some support here. Been married 8 years and am now seriously considering divorce. Since we got married, I've gone to college, changed jobs 3 times, and in general have "grown up" and changed from the 19 year old he married. My goals and ambitions for my life are now drastically different from what they used to be, while his are not. He's still the same good ol' country boy he was 8 years ago and doesn't understand why I now want things to be different. To me, it seems that we're moving along different paths, or at least I'm moving while he's staying still (not wanting change). <p>I keep thinking that life's too short to spend it with someone who cannot complement me, who cannot truly share my life. When I consider the two of us being together 30 years from now, that picture upsets me because I feel I will have missed out on so much of life by being with him. We have been in counseling for five months now, and I don't feel any closer to him yet. If anything, divorce seems more and more likely.<p>How can I make him understand that even though I loved him at 19, that it's not enough to fufill me for the rest of my life? Are we not justified to try to make our own happiness, even if at the expense of others' feelings?

What is it about your goals that makes them so incompatible with his?<p>What is it about incompatible goals that makes you so sure divorce is the answer?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How can I make him understand that even though I loved him at 19, that it's not enough to fufill me for the rest of my life? <hr></blockquote><p>I'm not sure that you can ever "make" him understand this. <p>I liked o2bsane's questions for you. I hope you'll answer them.<p>It's common for passion to ebb and flow in a marriage. Romance and passion that seems to have died can be rekindled. Maybe he can learn, change and grow (both of you) into the spouse that each of you needs, in order to stay fulfilled.<p>I hope you'll stick around and keep posting and asking questions.

I'm not sure I understand what divorce will solve. It sounds like your marriage is in a rut. What is to guarantee that your next marriage won't get into a rut. Then what are you going to do? divorce again? It sounds like you want to share your life with someone with similiar goals and who can compliment you by having similiar goals/interests and make you a better person, not drag you down. Do you have someone in mind? do you work with someone that fits that mold? It sounds like your goal is that you want to share your life with someone. What if you divorce and never find this special someone? I'm just curious. Keep posting. We're just trying to understand.

OK, I will go out on a limb here. . . I know that this is MB, however, having had the same epiphany as you are having after i went to graduate school, I understand your fears: I had them also. . . and am here because I didn't act on them when the time was right. . . because I was unsure of myself. . . remember, the pain you are about to inflict is because you yourself did not know yourself when you made a life long commitment. That is understandable, but then do you think you have earned your divorce?<p>First, do you have kids? that is a critical piece of your puzzle. . . <p>second. . . are you willing to date about 20 - 40 people before deciding on a partner? the reason i ask is that you have lived a very socially sheltered life, and you will be tempted to jump at the first reasonable relationship. . . .<p>you are very socially immature, not knowing yourself thoroughly until now. and then how long will you take to properly judge the next proposal?<p>OK, my response is that if you honestly feel and think, both responses required, and that you do not have kids, then I would also get the support of your FOO, family of origin, discuss the issues with them, and then make your final decision. . .<p>wiftty

How does your H feel about this? Does he also want a divorce? Does he agree that you don't meet each other's needs? if not, is he willing to try and save the marriage by trying to meet your needs (as Dr. Harley outlines on this site?) Most importantly, are YOU willing to sit down with him, discuss the issues of why you are not happy, and help him to learn how to satisfy your needs and have him, tell you how to satisfy his?<p>Personally, if there is no affair, violence, constant arguing, or anything, I would try to save the marriage. As others have already pointed out, divorce sucks. You would have a long road ahead of you to another marriage and nothing will guarantee that it will not turn out the same way.<p>My advice is, work with what you got and try your hardest to make it work! So you both can be happy.<p>Keep us informed!!<p>A.

Hi...I suggest you might read the Father/Husband Needs help thread in this list...I started it...And I know EXACTLY how you feel.<p>I married at 20, but picked her at 12, steady since 14...I know nothing else...well, read the thread, one eye-opening experience.<p>I feel just like you...so much would be lost if I stay. NOTHING we enjoy doing together, NOTHING. And I can't emphasize that enough.<p>BUT, we have 3 kids...so for me, I am trying anything I can to make it happen. but alas, I know it won't...You just can't change people...they have to want to. <p>In the thread, many have suggested love is a choice...I don't buy it myself...but it has been a great thread, new perspectives, etc.<p>Personally, if we had no kids, we would most likely have split years and years ago. We had kids 4 years into marriage, so I guess we had our time. But graduate school kept me busy, and I kept thinking it would get better...but for us, it hasn't. Whatever you do, don't have kids so "you have something in common". HA! Can't believe some of the decisions I have made...the most important, largest decisions you can make really...<p>Read the thread, ask more questions, don't hold back. There's a great group of folks here that want to help! <p>Most importantly, what WhenIhavethetime said is EXACTLY right. You (and I) are socially very young...I suspect you might have found someone that perks your interest...and most likely what you are looking for is a long way away. But I'd personally NEVER encourage someone to settle for something they didn't want...life IS short. BUT, don't go out for a walk and jump off the cliff...think...wait...talk...think...think....and think.<p>Thanks much!

Sorry in advance...do you have someone else in your life now you are interested in?

In answer to all the questions:
No, we don't have kids.
No, there is no one else.
No, there hasn't been anyone else.
No, I don't consider myself socially immature. I dated other men before marrying, it's not like he has been the only man in my life. <p>I am not looking for someone else, I am looking for myself. My life's goal is NOT to be constantly married but to be constantly happy. Maybe I won't meet someone to share my life with, but I'd rather have the opportunity to try to find that right someone than stay with someone just because he's the best I could find a few years ago. Do you understand that you can be alone even when you're in a relationship?<p>Yes, I have discussed with him my needs and wants; I have also asked him what are his wants and needs. He says he has none, that everything is fine as it is. After five months, the only benefit from counseling has been that we communicate better. <p>Please understand, this was not an overnight decision. I've been thinking this for well over a year. When you fantasize about your spouse dying so you can start your life, you know something's wrong.

"Looking for myself, want to be constantly happy, fantacize about your spouse dying".<p>Wow. I do not mean to offend here, but I must be honest about what I see. You apear to be searching for something and hoping to change your H when maybe the problem is not him or the M but your view of things and likely you that needs to change.<p>You sound very selfish and self centered right now. Please take another look at your situation and examine your heart - be honest with yourself. Life is full of ups and downs and no one is "constantly happy" in fact, just the fact that someone thinks they should be constantly happy and arent could make them constantly unhappy.<p>Your committment to marriage was for life! This was as much a committment to God as it was to your H!! I am sure your vow was not "for richer or poorer or until I do not want to anymore". If you don't like the dynamics of your relationship right now, change it or change your heart about how you are looking at it! <p>Fill your life with God and focused on others and you will have less reason and opportunity to be unhappy. "God hates divorce" and so do most of the people on this board. You have taken a good step by joining this board and asking questions. Please do not sabbotage your efforts in asking for help by efforts to only find opinions or listen to those that agree with your own. <p>If you are part of a local church, go talk to your pastor and discuss. If you are not, get to church and start filling that hole in your heart with God. And, if it feels like you need to seek forgiveness for something before you will feel good about you again, do so. <p>Get involved in something together helping others. Get active in your church or volenteering for a worthy cause.<p>If your counseling isn't Christian counseling, I would suggest looking into some.<p>Check out www.afclive.com this is a group called Americas family Coaches. They have a live radio broadcast in most of the nation you can see what station in your area and listen or call to get their perspective - I highly recommend it.<p>Read your bible and join a study group.<p>Read The Power of a Praying Wife<p>Decide to be happy where you are and work to that end with a teachable heart.<p>God bless and I will be praying for you.<p>John

KYCAR,<p>I wish one of the old-timers had posted on your thread sooner. I guess that's me.<p>First, I think you have come to a site where you can find some help. This forum, however is not the first place to look. Read the information on the main site (click on "Concepts" at the top of this page).<p>Also, read General Welcome for All New Builders<p>Many people on this forum post using abbreviations. Read Acronyms, Abbreviations, Etc. for an explanation.<p>I will try to put your problem as you have expressed it into MarriageBuilders' (MB) terms: In short, "Your husband is not meeting your emotional needs." I think you explained your situation rather well, and I don't think it is at all unusual. Your husband might have been meeting your needs when you were first married, but your needs have changed and he hasn't tracked that change. It is very important to realize that nobody can read your mind. Nobody knows what you need unless you tell them. We all understand that when we sit down in a restaurant. We know we have to place an order if we want our food needs to be met. But sometimes in a personal relationship we just assume that the other person knows how to make us happy, and even resent them for not knowing what we need. Its much harder to communicate emotional needs than to order food, because we often don't have a vocabulary to describe them. Much of the benefit of the MarriageBuilders site, books and in fact, other marriage books comes from the aquisition of a vocabulary which allows us to communicate our emotional needs to others. <p>Plan a campaign to get your emotional needs met. <p>First,
To recognize and be able to clearly express your most important emotional needs, carefully read the material on this site. Not the forums, but the info outside of the forums. It might help to buy and read "His Needs/Her Needs", "Love Busters", and "Give and Take". You don't have to read them all at once. You can get most of the material on this site, but the books often help. Then, take the emotional needs survey - available on this site and also in HN/HN. This is a tool to help you find and express your emotional needs. If you can persuade your husband to read this material and also fill out the survey, that's great, but even if you can't, it will help to do the survey yourself.<p>Second,
Try to consistently communicate your emotional needs to your husband. This will be easier if he has also read and understood the MB material, because you will have a common vocabulary with which to communicate your needs to him. But, if he has not familiarized himself with this material, you might just have to explain it to him in terms he does understand. This will require consistency and patience on your part. At first he may not believe that what you are saying is important. He may not understand that what makes you feel loved is different from what makes him feel loved - and so he may not understand how important these things are to you. You will have to be patient and persistent to get this point across. Warning: Don't try to "teach" him MB principles. Nobody likes to be lectured by their spouse. Just use these concepts to communicate your needs to him.<p>Your situation is very common, and is exactly the kind of situation that MB was designed to help.<p>Get to work and good luck!<p>-AD

Nice post AD! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by KYCAR:
<strong>...To me, it seems that we're moving along different paths, or at least I'm moving while he's staying still (not wanting change).<p>I keep thinking that life's too short to spend it with someone who cannot complement me, who cannot truly share my life. When I consider the two of us being together 30 years from now, that picture upsets me because I feel I will have missed out on so much of life by being with him...<p>How can I make him understand that even though I loved him at 19, that it's not enough to fufill me for the rest of my life? Are we not justified to try to make our own happiness, even if at the expense of others' feelings?<p>...Please understand, this was not an overnight decision. I've been thinking this for well over a year. When you fantasize about your spouse dying so you can start your life, you know something's wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>You never answered o2bsane's questions, KYCAR. How are your goals incompatible with your husband's? What will you have missed out on if you stay with your husband?<p>KYCAR, you pop in here every few weeks making extremely vague complaints and then disappearing again. Are you really here looking for answers, or are you just looking for validation for your decision to leave your husband?<p>The thing that bothers me most about your posts is that you talk only about your feelings, and you talk about them as if you have no clue why you feel the way you feel. OK, so you're dissatisfied. There's something missing in your life. What is it, KYCAR? Do you even know?<p>Your husband makes an awfully convenient scapegoat, but you haven't written a single word which might indicate why he is responsible for your dissatisfaction.<p>As for making our own happiness at the expense of others' feelings, I don't believe we are responsible for other people's feelings. We are only responsible for doing what is right.<p>Interestingly enough, it is in doing what is right that we feel best about ourselves. And that's the surest way to make our own happiness.

Then I am SOO sorry for bothing all of you with my problems. I came here looking for some help, support, and maybe a little bit of guidance, and all I get are flames from you people. Again, extremely sorry for coming here and needing a friendly ear, apparently there are none here.

Flames, KYCAR? I re-read this thread and I don't see any flames. Some people expressed empathy for your feelings, and others expressed concern about what you said or the way you said it. Everyone was cautionary.<p>The fact is, you have not provided enough details for us to honestly or intelligently give much more than that.<p>As for the "friendly ear", if by that you mean someone who will parrot back to you exactly what you want to hear, then you have indeed come to the wrong place. In my book, a true friend is one who will listen and then tell you what you need to hear, not someone who will cheer you on when you suggest doing something that looks like it might be self-destructive.<p>I suggest that you think about why you are being so defensive...

kycar,
I hope you stick around. Weed through the advice you get and just ignore someone if they offend you. The thing is this is a marriagebuilders site and most people come to make their marriage stronger NOT to get a rally of people around them to say divorce him. I thought AD's post was very sincere. A lot of people here are in your Husbands shoes and their spouse just decided they don't want to be married to them anymore so they are hurting. Can you try and understand their pain? <p>I think a separation would be a better idea than a divorce to see what its like. I too know what it is like to be alone in a relationship. Sometimes the threat of separation/divorce is all they need to get off their rump and start meeting your needs. This site has helped recover many marriages. I know what its like to have a miserable marriage. But the way I look at it we had 12 years of pain and through it we are totally different people now. (we're slow learners!) But now we are happy!!!! So when we say "till death do us part" and you imagine being together 70 years (since you met so young) what is a couple (even 12!) bad years if it is then followed by 58 good years!!!! <p>Me and my H are different people now. It definately takes 2!!!! you can't do it alone. Its just this site can teach you to try things you haven't tried before. Read my signature line divorcing doesn't make you happy that is what I thought the solution was too. If your marriage counselor isn't working then fire him and get a new one. <p>Keep posting and keep being honest with us. We ask a lot of questions because we want to get the full picture, we are trying to understand. Be patient with us, okay? we are all just sruggeling through this life learning through trial and error but we don't have to make all the mistakes ourself! We can learn from other's mistakes!

Well said, GDP.<p>By the way, this:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>Interestingly enough, it is in doing what is right that we feel best about ourselves. And that's the surest way to make our own happiness.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>is going on a 3x5 card taped to my bathroom mirror.<p>[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: o2bsane ]</p>

I'm sorry KYCAR that you felt that way.<p>We do ask questions to get a clearer picture of your situation and it takes some time of posting. You will find some people won't respond, but your story will click with someone else and they will follow your story and help you out.<p>Remember you came to a site that helps people build and rebuild their marriages. Divorce is NOT the easy way, and I will encourage people here to do everything they can to save their marriages. <p>I posted this on another thread, but will repeat it here.<p>
Personally, I never have believed in D and I NEVER EVER thought it would happen to me, but it did. The paperwork is easy, but the living after is a nightmare. <p>If anyone can learn anything from my experiences that I post here, I hope they think twice about D and the effects on their family. I truly hope they go back to their M and seriously think of their future...try harder & treat your M & spouse with great responsibility, care &
remember God entrusted you to cherish the gift He has given to you.<p>--------------------