Just got back from a doctor's appointment for my foot and physicals with the kids. . . and I made a very noticable observation about X. . . and I made it because the kids are starting to act like her. . .<p>she refuses to talk about herself. . . if questioned about anything she says, if challenged to explain what she means, she shuts down. . . this behavior comes from her FOO, such as the parents statements to the kids of "I shouldn't have to say it twice." now this leads to the belief that once you say something it is fact, truth and should never be discussed. . . .<p>so because ms. control manipulates the kids into being a certain situation that favors her, and then holds it as the way it is forever, i can either fight it or accept it. . . and i will never change her. . .<p>so my son says "it feels like a Monday." Trying to make conversation, i ask him what a Monday feels like, and he says "bad." so i say, "Maybe you feel bad?" and he goes into shut down, shaking his head, as if I don't get it. . . he is starting to do this alot now, whenever he disagrees with me, or I him. . . or I question him.<p>i know why it happens, because of the way X allows the children to rule the roost. . . she provides manipulative tactics to get the kids to say or do what she wants them to, and then acts as if they have decided, and that they are in charge. . . its very clear. . . and it sticks forever. . .<p>what was also apparent was that i questioned him one more time to get him to talk, and X motioned her hand to say "stop talking" and then she starts talking about other people, etc. in other words, when in my presence, she doesn't encourage conversation with me. . . very interesting, one of the divide and conquer routines. . .<p>and as i reflected back on our marriage, she had lots of difficulty talking or discussing situations or feelings without projection. . . and so when i would discuss other people, etc, we could, but as soon as it came to us, she wouldn't be able to do it, avoided it at all costs, and erected elaborate coping mechanisms to avoid it. . . and the bigger the topic, the more she would avoid it, or agree with me at the time, and then chastize me afterwards for making a bad decision . . . i told her I would not listen to after the fact monday morning criticism and she would shut down or get vindictive. . .<p>and her parents are like that, they don't discuss, they just "give in" to the other and then complain to whomever will listen. . . or criticize each other behind each other's back. . .<p>I saw all this along time ago, but did not know how to interpret it. . now i do, and she is a real piece of work, and as i read somewhere else, with all her FOO hang ups about sex, and how the kids are now calling the word sex or sexy nasty it is very evident that she is being vindictive against not getting what she wanted from OM, and making sex the scapegoat instead of looking at herself. . . always something/somebody else's fault. . .<p>I had mentioned it to her back when we were first married, how she always had to find something to blame, and she could not answer why . . .<p>all i can say, this summer's vacation will be more interesting as i will be bringing up these topics more often. . . . and will be alot more. . <p>just an interesting observation. . .<p>wiftty<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</p>

Your ex sounds like half the planet. It is a lot harder to confront a problem or the person giving you a problem then blab about them behind their back. So rather than resolve it, they bury it or stew on it and get hostile. Maybe your ex is under the impression that to admit to something or talk about things is a sign of weakness. I remember from past posts that she is a J on the MBTI...folks who prefer the judging preference have a tendency to be more rigid...in other words, there is their way and the wrong way...no middle ground. <p>No doubt your kids do pick up certain behavior traits if she has the majority of the influence. And then again, some of it is genetic. My boys aren't around their father much at all, but his influence is always felt...and it usually isn't in a good way either.

I know what you mean, but these aren't even problems, just discussions with the kids. . . it manifests itself into more, but really, its amazing how genetics play into the picture. . . <p>crap.. . . just crap!<p>wiftty

Sounds like she was a conflict avoider.
The MC we're seeing to work on communication has confirmed the my H never learned communication skills. I don't know why I didn't see it.
His problem could stem from ACOA issues (Adult Children of Alcoholics), where similar behavior is necessary for survival.
I felt that reading Co-dependency No More helped me a bit to deal with this, and acknowledge where I had supported his poor communication.
Good Luck.

newly,<p>i agree, there were FOO issues around addictive behaviors. . . which is where she learned it. . it was always amazing that whenever I was with my XILs, they shut down if I challenged anything they said, and they would discuss in generalities such that they couldn't really get dinged for being wrong. . . and other than that, they talk traffic and weather. . . nothing of substance. . .<p>Now my parents weren't the biggest talkers, but they did like a discussion. . . and my dad is sort of a conflict avoider, but the conflicts are over whether the mulch goes here or there. . . nothing of significance, but then again, the structure of their relationship was that my mom was the the boss in a very supportive way, and my dad usually always complied, whereas my X wanted to be the boss with threats and cuts. . . .<p>i didn't see the difference at the time because I thought i was invincible. . . but now i know. . .<p>wiftty