Ummmmm......What is going on? My wife acts as if we are strangers, par for the course, if I read other stories here...Husbands and wives acting with complete irrationality....bad things continuously happening to good people...the economy takes a real nose-dive and the rich get richer....bombings in the Middle-East, where both sides seem to be bent on insane destruction...kids killing kids in schools...where will all this garbage end? I do not see God in any of this at all. I need a more sophisticated theology than "It is all God's Plan". God, if he exists at all, did not give me this brain just so that I could turn it off and say, "Well, I guess He knows what He is doing". Why give me this brain, with its billions of connections, if I am not to question and get upset by all of the extremen BS I see all around me?

I am sorry GIIS, Avatar and others, but my Catholicism is not serving me well the last few weeks. My intellect yearns to understand, a quality given me by God, btw, if God is real at all. I can no longer put things in His hands, as He seems to be busy either sitting on His Own hands, or is not at all real in the way I have been taught by my Faith.

There must be a better way.

c++

The world sure is a crazy place but if people that do not beleive in God are willing to fight for their M's , even though they may be doomed for divorce, then why should we, who beleive in God, do any less?

<small>[ July 01, 2002, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

I don't understand this world we live in either. One time when I was remarking on how God could have permitted some horrible thing to happen...my mom said to me, "God didn't do all this, people did." It doesn't answer all of the questions we all have about the craziness that surrounds on a daily basis...but it does shed light on the real culprits...mankind. God gave us freewill...the ability to make a choice. The world has always been an unkind violent place. If you look back over History, man has always been violent...disregarding human life. I remember reading once that wars are fought over three things; land, power, and women. God didn't do that...man did.[

dear guy,

i so totally understand what you are feeling... there is so much i want to say, but i don't want to sound like i'm preaching or scolding.

when i read your post my heart felt you immediatly. i have cried out to God for a long time now. i have said every prayer i could say to save my marriage and restore a relationship between myself and my ex...

happymac said it all. it's not God, it's people that are hurting you and it's people that are responsible for the demises that are constantly taking place in this sick world.

i think that when someone makes a comment like "God is in control" or "it's all in God's hands", i don't think it is to blame God, but to reassure us that believe that if you just trust Him and don't waiver in your faith that your faith and belief will be rewarded.

i have also learned that reward may not be what i have prayed for. to date my xh and i are not reconciled but we are still very much still not willing to let go of each other.

he (my ex)is very bitter and refuses to forgive, while expecting to be forgiven... this is very frustrating for me, but i have finally accepted that i am totally powerless over people and the situiations they create. i can only save my own soul and i can only change my own life. for others i can only suggest and pray...(some call it planting the seed that only God can water)...

i love my xh very, very much but i cannot make him forgive me, love me, come back to me, etc...

recently i typed the Serenity Prayer and posted on my wall in my office. im sure you know it, but just in case...
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change, the courage to change the things that i can, and the wisdom to know the difference"...

i have finally realized how powerless i am over these crazy people in the world as i am powerless over most things... but i can change me. which is my ultimate goal. i am currently looking forward to the blessings God has in store for me. they might not be what i have been praying for, and i'm prepared for that too. cuz i really believe that God can do anything but fail... but you have to add, "if I let Him"...

I also got this word of inspiration the other day and i posted this on my wall too,

"Never think that God's delays are God's denials...Hold on; Hold fast; Hold out... Patience is genious...
-Conle de Buffon

I am praying right now that your faith is restored... i know it doesn't feel to good now, but one day you will recover from the feelings of impending doom that over take you daily thoughts...

i never thought i would. really. i only wanted to die, give up, leave... i had it bad... but i can honestly say that God has restored my joy and i am heading towards recovery for me...

don't give up...

kim...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by c++_guy:
<strong>I can no longer put things in His hands, as He seems to be busy either sitting on His Own hands, or is not at all real in the way I have been taught by my Faith.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ever read Jack Williamson's story "With Folded Hands..."?

It's a science fiction story in which a well-meaning inventor creates a "race" of robots "To Serve and Obey, And Guard Men From Harm". As Williamson describes it, "the best possible machines, designed with the best of intentions, become the ultimate horror."

By the end of the story, the robots have locked the protagonist out of his workshop (because the tools are considered a hazard to him), and they take his sarcastic request for children's play blocks quite seriously, allowing that as long as they are made of a soft enough material and the corners are sufficiently rounded, he might be permitted a set...

I believe that God wants us to be the best we can be, and I know that I am a better person for the things I have gone through. An idyllic existence, with never an impetus to ask the kinds of questions you are asking now, would not have been half as effective.

In the Garden of Eden, God didn't have to put Adam and Eve to the test. But He did anyway. Those prototypical humans failed their tests, and humanity has experienced a never-ending series of tests ever since - including tests which we put to ourselves and to each other. We live (and die) with the consequences. And so does God.

God has done something incredibly more difficult than establishing a utopia for a bunch of docile sheep. He has instead created an environment in which each of us can grow into the image of Himself.

As for "God's Plan", I don't think of God as a puppetmaster, moving pieces around on a stage. Rather, I think of Him as a master improviser, turning every attempt to thwart Him into another opportunity for growth and good.

I have been where you seem to be at the moment.
Things only got worse for me when I felt like that.
I'm not completely literate as to what the Bible says, but I think it reffered to this world as Satan's Domain.
That's just my opinion, I could be wrong!
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Well,

What can I say that hasn't been said already.

As you know, we're not living in heaven. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I wish I knew all the answers, but I don't, however I'm pretty sure about this...

God made us because He loves us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> - and He showed us how much by allowing HIS Son to suffer and die on the cross.

And He wants us ALL to go to heaven. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

However, he didn't make robots - he made people. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And He gave those people free will because He wanted to see who would choose to follow Hi, and who merited a place with Him in heaven.

Yes there is sin in the world and Satan is out there to discourage us and lie to us. However God gave us HOPE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And remember - just like we want our spouses to remember their committment to us now when they are in the midst of their fog - God wants us to remember our choice to love Him even when things seem down. It's hard to do, but love is a choice/ decision, and we have to make it - even when God doesn't seem like He's there. That's the true test of our committment to God and to each other, because it's easy to love when everything is going our way - anybody could do it.

God doesn't want us to have horrible awful lives. He wants us all to have an awesome relationship with Him. However, the way we grow closer to Him is through suffering.

I didn't make the rules, but that's how it works. And I have to trust that God knows what He's doing.

So, treat this as a wake up call from God, or a test to see what you are really made of. The reward is great - heaven - kind of like a retirement fund, we don't get to see the benefits now, but we'll get them when we're ready.

And never underestimate God. He's there, you just have to ask Him to open your eyes to see him. It's like you need to start looking at the glass being half full instead of half empty.

Do some daily affirmations - they do help! Write down what you're thankful for - and if all else fails, do what my grandmother always told me to do - go work in a homeless shelter, or volunteer at at hospital and help others who have it worse than you do and bring some joy into their lives.

Nobody is exempt from helping each other out. That's what the corporeal and spiritual workds of mercy are all about - it's what loving one another is all about. And I think that you'll find that just like in MB when you start fulfilling other's needs, then you will start getting your needs fulfilled.

Try it - you may like it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

GIIC,

that was a great response... it gave me even more to think about. you are so right it is always easy to be happy and say you love God when it's all good, but this is the real test. cna we still love Him in the midst of our trials. i think the word say that we are to "count it all joy"... and i know that doesn't mean that we should love our trial, but that we should love the chastening, the pruification and the healing that will eventually come frorm them through God's love...

oh boy... i just love to talk about the Lord...

c++_guy -

Hey! Remember what the c++ was for..... new attitude! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Didn't mean to sound too "quit your bellyaching" in my last reply.

Did you ever read my last response to your last post? Just wonderin' although it was rather l o n g.

It sounds like your job is getting too monotomous (sp?) and that you need a break from all this heartache.

Why don't you go and do something fun..... so what do analytical computer guys like to do for fun... It needs to be something totally frivolous and you can't expend any braincells on it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

How about a movie - something uplifting how about Star Wars Episode II. It was pretty good I thought. There is Minority Report(got good reviews) and Matrix II is coming out soon. If not a sci-fi fan then go see Mr. Deeds(a little humpr never hurt). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It just sounds like you're in a funk and you've got so much to live for - but when you're in a funk, you can't see it like others can.

I'm into the graemlins today as you can tell.

I hope that you start up the rollercoaster soon - and which you will inevidably do - and rememebr to take with you the lessons learned while at the bottom, and leave all the rest behind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by God is in Control:
<strong>How about a movie - something uplifting how about Star Wars Episode II. It was pretty good I thought.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Star Wars Episode II uplifting? I thought it was OK, albeit disappointing (dreadful dialog). But the ending tore me up, with the result that seeing the movie ended up being quite a downer.

Not to give anything away, but to see someone with so much to offer begin to head down a path with so much potential for happiness, knowing that he will instead make a terrible mess of his life and bring so much suffering to so many people including his own children...

Let's just say that I was reminded of someone else, someone very special to me. And if there's another type of tragedy with greater poignancy, I don't know what it might be.

Ok. Sorry. Scratch Star Wars - you're right-has secondary theme of people NOT LIVING up to their commitments. Didn't think I suggested it was uplifting - only a good movie to use as an escape - but it does ultimately have a happy ending - you just have to get all the way to episode 6........ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thank you, all.........still formulating adequate reply.........you folks are all examples to me of what good people truly are...i hope that I am worthy of your help and caring, truly...C++

None of us are worthy ...... just forgiven. K

12:05 AM..........brain not working <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ......know what I want to say to you all, but cannot write it out at this hour....God Bless and and goodnight......Thanks to all my MB friends...c++_guy

C++,
I once was in your shoes. When I was a child I begged and prayed for god to take meout of my parents home and to stop the abuse. Well, he didn't listen to me so I quit going to my catholic church as soon as I could get my way out of it. I blamed him for my faterh abusing me and for my mom letting him. Now I have come to understand that God did not do those things to me, people did. ( my parents) I also have learned just recently that if I had not gone through all of that I would not be the strong person I am today. I would not have the strength to stop the cycle my family started.
I ask god everyday to help me get through the day and to help me continue to grow and th give me peace. Well, it is working. Yes I have a couple of bad times every now and then, but for the most part I am very peaceful with myself.

My admin at my office put this saying ona piece ofpaper on my computer. You migh try it.

Hello I am god and I am in control of your life today. You are not needed. SO sit back and relax let me take care of you!!
I read this every morning and I say my little praryes an it helps me get through my day!!
I hope you find your way to understand god does not give us more than we can handle and we are going through what we are becasue it will help us to help ourselves or others.

I will pray for you. Try to keep looking up!!

Hi c++ guy,
Last time you were in the doldrums, I almost posted, but felt like my suggestion was too trite. If I recall, you were down about your lack of work in your field and less than thrilled about your job running the ferry. I too took on a job for a while that was a bit more menial than my tastes. But, I was thankful for the income, thankful for very nice coworkers, thankful for the opportunity. I was also thankful when they laid me off! Oddly enough, my ability and opportunities for earning income have multiplied since my H moved out in January. I wanted to say to you, smile and the world smiles with you. It just seemed too... syrupy. Puhlease!! I'm not the syrupy type!

It seemed like you perked up around the time you changed your user name and started learning a new computer language. Now here you are in the doldrums again. Sorry to hear it c++. This time around, I feel moved to reply. I was suffering from the doldrums myself today. Yes, we do live in a world with all kinds of discouragement, evil and horror. We live in a fallen world. I don't know about you, c++, but the only place I find peace is in prayer. The only way I improve my life is to start each day with a goal of choosing lightness over darkness. Today, I failed miserably. Tomorrow is a new day. I can start over. God isn't the only player here. The enemy has many tools to deceive, beguile, and discourage us. Today I had planned to do many things, including a trip to Habitat for Humanity to explore volunteer opportunities. Instead, I had such tremendous fatigue that I was a slug the entire day. I count it as a blessing. For me to experience such an attack must mean I'm heading in the right direction. I have faith that tomorrow will be a better day for both of us. Don't be discouraged c++. It's a heinous and powerful tool of the enemy.

As Dr. Nick Riviera, from the Simpsons would say....."Hi, Everybody!"

Well:

I marvel at how all of you keep your faith so strong. My brain just does not work that way, I wish that it did. I think in these terms; "If A then B". So, if I see 5000 years of human history where God is conspicuously absent in human affairs and lets even the most innocent, and frequently ONLY the most innocent, suffer the most outrageous misfortunes, then I begin to wonder what is really going on.

That being said, I really love being Catholic, I love the history, much of the theology and the logic and construction of the Catholic Church, both Eastern Rite(s) and Latin Rite. However, I must work out a theology and a world view that will allow me to live in the world with at least some understanding.

In my youth I dreamed of becoming a theoretical physicist, an idea I actually still play with from time to time, and people who have a bent towards physics are not the best candidates for unquestioning faith in the face of adversity..."There must be a reason" I keep telling myself.

I really admire all of you, here (by the way, as I was mowing my lawn yesterday, I thought to myself, "I wonder what GnomeDePlume would have to say about this?", and there your post was when I got back.) and I think that your way of seeing the world is probably better than is my own. All that I ask is that I be accepted for who I am...A Catholic who lights candles for friends in need, says the Memorare when I am down, yet knows that there is more to the story than I have been told either in Scripture or at Mass.

I hope that I have not offended anyone, I need and enjoy your support on this board.

To quote a great man of the sea; "I yam what I yam, and that's all what I yam".

God Bless You, Everyone,

Please reply and let me know how this post has come across to you,

Thank you,
c++_guy

hey guy,

let me be the first to tell you that i am in no way offended or dissappointed regarding your post. there are so many times that i wonder where God is in my own life, and as i said in my first response to you, "i can relate to where you are"... you know, "the been there, done that" syndrome??? and i have been there way more than 1 time... thank God i ain't there today... and i pray that tomorrow will be a good day also... it is always one day at a time for me... i know this sounds like a bunch of dumb cliches but they are the ones that really work for me... sometimes the cliches are just the encouragement i need to move one more step ahead...

this post caught my eye and i have been monitoring the responses since i saw it yesterday early afternoon... i just care for you and your sorrow right now. God has you in a good place, cuz there are so many here that care about you and will love and encourage you not scold or discourage you through your down periods...

i have not been posting here and there are so many new names and so many turns to others stories. i didn't even know that you changed your name, i thought you were a guy with a name similar to yours. did that make sense??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NE way, i am glad i was lerking and saw your post. the responses have enlightened me and you have given me a reason to open my heart and care about someone elses well being...you know something else to focus on besides my self... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

i love you with the love of the Lord... stay up, and be encouraged... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

it does get better. i know how hard it is to believe, but it does... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Since you're going to church anyway while you question God's existence, light a candle for me too, will ya? I need all the help I can get!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lonesome heart:
<strong>Since you're going to church anyway while you question God's existence, light a candle for me too, will ya? I need all the help I can get!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that is a good point... will you light a candle for me too... i really need help... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />