Here is my story. I have found solace and information on this site for the last week but feel mixed about my situation as I implemented a lot Dr H’s stuff not knowing Dr H’s stuff! I feel that as the BS that I could always do more and I want to feel like I did all I could. Friends and family only pick sides and analyze the problem at face value, black and white,right or wrong. I am also surprised that this seems to be so common? Sorry for the longggggg post but sharing really helps me out..

My W and I have been married for 5 years. I feel our marriage had been strong and we were both mature for our first marriage; I was 29, she was 25 when we got married. Met at work. Last Spring we had decided that it was time to have a baby as she was turning 30. I am 34. This was not a snap decision as this had been our plan since marriage; kids around 30. Around Sept/Oct of last year, she said she was really struggling with having a child as it might negatively impact her career. We talked about it and I tried to convince her that the only sacrifices to be made were up to us. She would not have to quit her job, etc unless we agreed. Things always seemed to work out for us. We both work out of our home so we always felt it would be manageable to try to continue our successful careers. Her attitude continued downward through Christmas and she was telling me that it was a combination of turning 30 and juggling her job, trying to get pregnant, etc. I recommended a MC. She agreed and went 4 times in Jan/Feb. I agreed to accompany her if the MC deemed my presence necessary. It was tough living “on guard” but I figured it was a phase. She then asked me if we could stop trying to have a baby while we worked “all this out.”. This was difficult for me as it impacted SF as well as affection and furthered my misunderstanding. I bought her some expensive jewelry for her birthday and we took an expensive trip. Things seemed better but guarded. We also went to Vegas for Valentine’s Day as a spontaneous gesture. Had a great time; things were improving.
We bought a lake house last August that I thought would be a good diversion from our home office scenario and that really seemed to solidify a solid marriage as we really enjoyed our time there on weekends furnishing it, mowing, relaxing, etc. Lots of affection, etc.
Sunday night travels from the lake house seemed to get my W in a funk and I would ask her and she continued that she was just not feeling “right.” I got fed up and told her I was tiring of being in the confused state with no evidence of progress and not understanding the real problem. I went out of town for the week on business and found out she had rented an apartment when I looked at the checkbook on her return. She called me at the lake to notify me that she had just gotten laid off and was in shock. (She was with her parents in another state for a few days after her business trip.) I told her we were financially prepared for this and maybe it was a sign of progress for having a child, reflecting on our marriage, etc. We have had no financial problems at all and are quite well off. I then asked her about the deposit and she told me that she needed some time away and had put a deposit down on an apartment as we were “not getting along.” But, “I didn’t sign a lease, just put down a deposit, maybe my parents could talk me back into our marriage.” Unfortunately, she had to deliver the apartment news in front of her M as she had yet to tell her parents about the deposit. Her parents are quite ashamed of her.
She ended up staying with her parents for almost 3 weeks juggling her marriage problems and job loss. We talked on the phone daily but I was in shock it had come to this. I feel like this was plan A as I was supportive and knowing her job loss pain. But, I didn't know what I know now. She returned after the 3 weeks and said that she still needed time to reflect and that she would spend the weekend at the lake. I was surprised and got angry. She went to get her hair done and I checked her computer that I had loaned her. Dday.--I found romantic emails, plans for a long weekend, the whole terrible deal; soulmates, “most amazing man” emails, I love you,etc. It’s a guy I know from work. You can't imagine the pain. I blew up calling her white trash, never want to see her again, the whole deal. She ended up packing a lot of clothes and continued to execute the weekend plan with the OM after lying and saying she was going to the lake. I was floored that she would leave after the A light was on. For all practical purposes, she moved in with him even though the lake house was hers to live in. She told me later that she had shared her A with her MC but not me until late in this process. This went on for about 2 months. During this time, she tried to come back and work on the marriage 3 times but I told her the A had to end for her to begin working on our issues as another web site I visited said 3rd party contamination is VERY difficult to work on with emotions split. We never got past 24 hours of recovery at a time before her A withdrawal sent her back to him. The irony is that the OM’s W had left him for their neighbor last year. They got D’d and his XW married her OM neighbor shortly after their D. Wow, what a total disaster. I really feel like the OM feels like he has experience dealing with our situation as he has just endured what my W is doing to me. Crazy, illogical enabling but OM tells my W there is no chance for our M based on his “experience.” He is 10 years her senior with 2 small children. Anyway, the rollercoaster has my W calling one day with working on the M to let’s just get D’d. I filed in mid May as I refused to have her live with OM and rub my nose in it. My W knows the instant family of 2 small kids is a major problem.
On her last attempt to reconcile, she was supposed to be at the house packing her things while I was away for a long weekend. I came home to find her in chaos with a story about how I won, and I was the best man for her, she could never see anyone else being the father of her child, she loved me and not OM. The shock of the moving all her things, seeing our dog shook her up pretty good I guess. I told her that she had to quit the job she just started and put me on the top of her list for recovery. She also had to end her A. She said she would go to his apartment while he was at work and pack and break things off. She quit her job to “prove her devotion to our recovery.” I rode along (a 4 hour drive 1 way) to help her with a tough day of ending her A. When we go there, she said she couldn’t do it and could not see leaving him. She picked me up with nothing removed from his apartment. She said that our marriage had turned into us just becoming best friends and she needed the passion and insecurity that the A was giving her no matter how ridiculous that sounded. We drove home for 4 hours in silence. We got home and she said she didn’t think I should have had to drag her out of her A in this horrible manner. I agreed but I know she is confused and I am trying to help clear her fog. She called me the next day to say that she is through and to process the last of the D documents. She is ashamed of herself. She said I could never forgive her and that she cannot tear her self away from the A. She called and got her job back and rented an apartment next to OM. I am doing the D as we have no children and the property is uncontested. Did I do all I could? Our D hearing is in 2 weeks. The pain I have endured is immeasurable and I consider myself emotionally strong.

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: SleeplessTX ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She said I could never forgive her and that she cannot tear her self away from the A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First. with no children, and still being young, you should proceed with the D.

second, her teeling you about forgiveness is a projection of herself onto you. . . meaning "she can't forgive herself. . . ." so she must run away, as the fear of having it held over her head would be too much. . . because she would hold it over your head.
I say you have given her a ton of opportunities, and now it is time to give her what she has been asking for. . . .

good luck,
and use your new information wisely to decide how to date effectively. . .. you gave her your bottom line, no OM, and then she couldn't do it. . . and without kids, do it before you make any more mistakes, because kids put a huge stress on the marriage. . . and if the marriage is not strong before the kids, kids will only pressure the weakest link and it could break very easily. . . .

good luck
wiftty

Thanks wiftty. This site has so many strong people that it is a blessing and a curse. It makes you realize others share your pain but that hope is alive no matter how small.

SleeplessTX,
Do you have any idea on how long this "A" has been going on for?
Her statement about you and her being just good friends and she needed the passion and insecurity of an "A"... Wow, that is major fog talking right there.
I wouldn't make any rash moves for a little while unless you are sure you want to move forward without her.
I know It looks bad, as well as sounds bad... but I would do a heavy duty PLan A on her.
If you don't start seeing results in a time frame you can live with... well you know what your options are.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

wallace,
I think the A started 8-9 months ago as an EA as they cross paths at work but don't work toegether. ie they tried to rendezvous at trade shows, etc for the EA. My W is very emotional so it is hard for her to hide any pain. We went downhill immediately after her not-wanting-a baby-story. That must have been the start. Again, his XW D'd him earlier last year and M'd their neighbor. I can't tell if he was aggressive with my W or passive/agggressive pursuing her. She told me it wasn't PA, only EA, until I found out on DDay. She said that me finding out drove her into his arms the weekend of Dday. It was a strange conversation later; "I didn't sleep with him until you found out."

As for Plan A, I didn't know these plans then as I have been new to this forum. I feel pretty good that I did a plan A as I tried to comfort her as best I could not knowing about the A. It's strange how plan A works; during 1 of her returns to our home to do some contract work locally, she came to the house to spend the night and I told her that I was OK with the D. I acted peaceful, content, etc. That seemed to startle her into wanting to recover but again, our recoveries lasted until I pushed for her to end the A. This was typically 24-36 hours before she ran back to OM.

Sleepless,
You may have an advantage here, and not know it.
The first thing I would do is read all the forums on this site.
Read up on Plan A and Plan B.
As long as you are in communication with her, you can start Plan A, by bettering yourself.
Show your wife that you are the better choice over the OM. You are in a fight with this OM for the love and affection of your wife as well as your marriage.
If you want to win this fight, you are going to have to start meeting her EN's (emotional needs). The OM is obviuosly doing it, so you need to start doing it as well, but only better.
This may take some time, and it usually does considering she has been in this "A" for some period in time.
It appears that she is vulnerable to you, when you acted like you were in Plan A and didn't know it... and she responded to it.
It's not too late start working on your Plan A, asap.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Wallace, I feel that I did try a good Plan A as I knew about these plans after our final reconcile attempt 2 weeks ago. It was late but helpful nonetheless. On my way home from my long weekend away, while she was packing at our house, I asked her from the airport if she loved me and not the OM after she called me to ask for another chance. She said she loved me and not OM. I asked her if she could think about that for 10 minutes and then I would call her back. I called her back and she still agreed that she only loved me, not OM. This is after a 8-9 month A so she has had time to reflect on her needs and wants. So, I arrived home a few hours later and we worked on our plan for recovery; she quits her job, takes it easy for 6 months, focuses on me and her without job stress, etc. Next day she picked up her rings from the bank safety deposit box, quits her job and seemed to feel good about us but we were on guard with all we've been through. We had a great 2 days but that was the easy work. Ending the A the next day she was unable to do. When she got to OM place, she seems to have a jolt that that is where she is supposed to be and couldn't pack or break it off. I accompanied her to moving out of the OM and told her that this may be the toughest day of her life and I was there for support. That's about all the Plan A I got! It's almost like she cares more about his reaction to the A is over than to my feelings. Even when we got home with no end of A, I told her I loved her but she needed to recognize the withdrawal of the end of the A. I don't think she realized that this (withdrawal) should be this hard and thus our marriage isn't meant to be. I desperately want to meet her EN, but it is impossible if she is not around.

SleeplessinTX,
Also, don't try to push her into ending her "A" as much as you want her to. Sometimes that does more damage than good.
Gather yourself up and work on you, in time... if you run your Plan A to the best of your ability she will see the changes.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

W- I didn't push her. She planned the ending, scheduled the trip, etc. She told me during our recovery planning that she knew she had to end it and sooner would be better. She was originally going to go alone. I only accompanied her the morning of the trip as I told her that I was there for her support as it was a long drive. She seemed to appreciate that and said she'd love to have me drive along and she would drop at our nearby office while she packed her stuff at OM place. One glance at OM's place she couldn't do it.

SleepleesinTx,
We crossed posted there.
You got your work cut out for you on this one after reading your last post.
Withdrawl is a tough one to break. I'm going to give you my take on what I would do... but keep in mind my marriage is in a shambles, so you can take this for what it is worth.
I didn't have the benefit of Plan A or B, because I found this site too late. Had I knew what I know now, my marriage may not be in the ruin it is in.
Depending on what you are willing to live with, you may have to go to Plan B and stay with it until she breaks all contact with OM.
She is playing both sides right now and if you can play that game then go ahead and let it continue (not trying to be harsh).
Work a hard Plan B, for as long as it takes or how long you can stand it... and then if that doesn't get it... well you know the last Plan.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Thanks Wallace for the support. Like you, I didn't have the benefits of this site either until late in the game but I feel I did Plan A and Plan B at the same time. Other sites were helpful but nothing as intensive or detailed as this one. WW is under the impression that I am going to the final DV hearing anytime after 7/15. So, I'll do Plan B until that date and then see if she tries another reconcile. All our stuff is split and she is not living with OM, but rented a place near him. I thnk this clears her conscience of living with another man while we DV. Living with him didn't seem to bother her for the last 3 months, though.

It does sound like your W has very foggy thinking. The good news is that she has expressed her love for you too - although sporadic. You must be meeting some of her ENs. She must be very confused.
Most affairs die a natural death because the other person usually cannot fulfill all of the ENs of the WS - especially when the reality of living sets in. In this case, life with a divorced man with 2 small children, with emotional baggage from the past. Financial planning, caring for children, etc will take its toll, not to mention the disapproval of her family. BTW, if this OM already lost one wife, I wonder how he well he can actually keep one, or if he knows how? Just a thought....
Your goal, if you want to try to save your marriage, should be to continue to Plan A and meet the emotional needs she will let you meet, and NO love busting. If she doesn't come around to work on the the marriage, then continue Plan A until your love bank gets dangerously low, then consider implementing Plan B - withdrawing yourself from her completely. Instructions are provided in detail on this website.
When you implement Plan B, you will no longer be meeting any of her emotional needs that you had previously been meeting. Then, guess what? It will be up to the OM to meet them all. And as I pointed out before, he was unable to do this before, and I doubt he has learned enough to prevent losing someone again. Not only that, but she will be faced with the reality of life with that person, and his finances, and his children along with their legal ramifications, and his ex....etc. Yuk! Sounds impossible to me!
During this, you may feel like a schmuck and a doormat. But stick with the people who are supportive of your working on your marriage. Because in the end, it will be you having to live with the consequences, not them.
Well intentioned people may counsel you to give up the marriage, that you are a victim here. But, as pointed out in Harley's books, do you want to be right or do you want to be happily married? A judge will look at you and say "congratulations, you were right, you ARE a victim, so now you are happily divorced"!
Please just make certain that any decision you make is one YOU can live with.
If I were you, I would also seriously pay a few dollars for individual counseling with the Harley's. It is simple, you can schedule it by phone, and it sounds like it won't be a financial burden. Why not? You've invested time and emotion in this, why not a few dollars to have professional advise. The cost would be far less than divorce.
I know this is painful, it hurts, we don't need this in our lives. But you sound like you are doing a fantastic job trying to work on you, doing the research. Keep it up, and hang in there.
Big hugs.

By the way, I also wanted to tell you that to "be divorced" is merely a description of the state of a relationship. A reltionship still exists, and therefore opportunities to reconcile. Others going down this path have experienced this. Just recently one of the members of this forum happily remarried his XW and they are on a positive recovery road. I just wanted to mention this because that appears to be the direction you are heading now, but its never too late. I thought it might give you some additional hope.

Thank you WTT. I feel like I've been in Plan B for the last month or so. We hadn't talked at all until she came to pack her things and that's when the fog lifted for a moment and she asked for another try. Details above. I think Plan B is the only option as we do not communicate and have the DV plan in motion. As far as counseling with Dr H, I don't feel like it would be helpful for me as my WW needs to speak to him/them as well. I went to a highly recommended/expensive counselor locally with my spouse but she dismissed it as me trying to salvage the marriage rather than beginning a positive plan. I asked her to go under the pretense to help me understand our issues rather than end her A. She told me that her OM told her MC's were a waste of time as he had tried with his XW. So, her mind was not open to counseling from the start as she had come directly from him to MC. We went once, disagreed with the MC that we had a commmunication problem, and tried to build our own plan for recovery for a few days. Again, she could not end the A which is what each reconcile try ultimately ended with. When my WW went to MC early in her fog, she was sharing the A with her MC, but not me. Both her MC and the one we saw together said individual counseling at this stage of the game was a waste of time.

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: SleeplessTX ]</small>

STX I am sorry that you are in this situation. However, it is my opinion, that not all marriages should be saved especially when there are no children. In fact, it is my understanding that Dr.Harley also holds to this viewpoint. You may love your wife very much but her actions show that fidelity is not one of her strong points. The question you need to ask yourself is if she came back would you trust her enough to have children with her. Marriage counselling is not a guarantee that your wife will not repeat this behaviour 5 or 10 years from now except you will have children to contend with. Contrary to what others may say it is easier to start a new relationship than try to repair a relationship that has been scarred by adultery.

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: tomaz ]</small>

STX,

I feel for you my friend. If I would have gotten out of my marriage the first time she done this to me I would have been a lot better off emotionally and financially. As it is now I have three children that have been put in the middle of all of this madness. I have suffered like you wouldn't believe, to the point that I wanted out of this world the easy way! I talked myself out of it when I thought of my children would grow up not having their real daddy.
I have to say that I loved my x with all my heart. I guess that wasn't good enough. Anyway, I am newly divorced and still in the healing process (just because you sign those divorce papers, it doesn't spare you from the pain emotionally. You can't turn your feelings off like a water faucet.) What you have to do is decide if you can live with the decision you make. After four times I had to make that decision. It doesn't mean that I don't hurt over it but I couldn't live like that anymore. It was killing my soul and my will.
I feel that I am much stronger than I was a year ago and I don't regret my decision as of yet. FOR ME, it was the best way...

Best wishes

RN

tomaz and rough, thanks for the posts. You know, I go through the range of emotions; it's like many endorse the DV as I have no children and have financial stability and most think I am young. In my current thinking however, these things just made it easier for her to leave.