I don't even know where to get started with this one. In helping a friend, an elderly lady (72), (Let's call her Sally) in some ground work for a divorce I've come across some strange stuff about our legal system. So I thought I'd ask here and see if I can get some insight and some new ideas. And yes this is a real story.

Sally's husband (let's call him Joe) was in the military for 20 years. Sally was married to Joe during 15 years of that career. They have been married since 1956.

During their entire marriage Joe was cheating around. He had at least one 'love child' that Sally knows of. There were several times when she took her children and family photos to visit one woman or another to tell the woman that she was interfering with a family by having an affair with her husband.

In 1971 Joe was living in California on a military assignment while Sally was living at home (an apartment) with their four children in Virginia. From the letters I've seen they were definitely in contact all this time as husband and wife.

In 1971 Joe married a woman in Las Vegas. That marriage was annulled within a year when Sally called Joe's 'new wife' and told her that Joe was indeed married with four children. He'd put on his marriage certificate that he'd never been married and had not children.

In late 1971 (guess it was a busy year for Joe) he was deployed to Vietnam. When he returned to the states in the following year he retired. But he never went home to Sally. He just disappeared. She spent years trying to find him. He was drawing a military retirement check, she was able to verify that. But no one would tell her where he was.. not the military, no the military retirement office, no one.

She still had her military ID so she used the base hospital and docs for her kids. Well that was until the day in 1980 when an MP forcefully took her ID's away from her at a military hospital. She was there for her daughter's doc appointment. It seemed that Joe had remarried (now remember he is still married to Sally). Sally tried to get the military lawyers to help her but since she was no longer listed as Joe's wife they would not talk to her.

For years Sally tried to find Joe. She tried to get the US Army, US Military Retirement Services, etc, senators and anyone else she could think of the help her find Joe, get her military ID back and get some of the benefits and retirement she was entitled to. By this time she had of course given up on ever having a life with Joe... who wanted one.

Over the last 15 years she has found Joe from time to time. He moves as soon as she finds him. And each time he asks her when is she going to get a divorce.

Well this year I started to help Sally. At least I thought I was going to help her. But it seems that there is no recourse for her. I called the US Army Family Liaison office this last week and told them the story. The guy I spoke to said that what happened to Sally is not all the unusualy. The military will protect their own. They will probably not do anything to Joe for years of falsifying government documents saying that he's married to this German woman. The liaison guy said that Sally should try to get her military ID back.. But she cannot because she has no rights... believe me I tied .. The IG office will not even talk to her or me.

Joe's German 'wife' has been falsifying documents for years, including immigration documents saying that she is married to Joe. I found evidence recently that this 'wife' knows the marriage is not a valid marriage. So she's in on the scam.

So we called the prosecutor in the Florida county where Joe and the German 'wife' live. Joe does not know yet that he has been located or I'm sure he'd move. We were told that they would not prosecute Joe for bigamy because it happened so many years ago. I'm stumped... is it true that if a person can hide long enough then bigamy is not bigamy? I thought that marriage was for life; therefore bigamy is bigamy no matter when it happened.

Salient to this case is that while Sally has not known where Joe has been all this time the reverse is not true. Sally lived for years in an apartment where Joe had stayed lived with Sally. When she moved, after the children were grown, she was able to get some communications to Joe through family members and attorneys as to her new address.

At this point Sally wants a divorce, she wants as much military retirement pay as she is entitled to and death benefits, and she wants 50% of Joe's assets. Recently she applied for SS benefits through Joe's social security. He has the other woman down as his wife even with them. Hopefully SS will give Sally the time of day. But there is the issue of the other 'wife'. She needs to be able to show that it's a bigamous marriage. After Joe disappeared he never paid a dime in child support. Yet she has not claim to back child support because there was no divorce settlement or separation stating how much it would be.

I am appalled at our military, our government offices, and our legal system that allowed Joe to push aside Sally and her four children like so much trash. All these years she has not had money to hire an investigator and an attorney to fight this for her. Sally is a dear friend of mine, so at this point I’ve agreed to help her with the divorce expenses with some hope that we can get Joe to pay the bill through a court order. I have a notebook of all her letters, notes and correspondence for trying to get someone to help her on this. There are in excess of 500 pages of this paperwork. She has never even had the benefit of a divorce hearing or settlement. It is not as though she has sat back and done nothing all these years. Now that we have found Joe, we are hoping that she will finally get at least that.

If you have gotten this far, thanks for reading all this. I know how resourceful the MB bunch is. I’m just hoping that someone out here has a great idea that will help me with this.

Hooo boy!! That's some tale!!!

Here's what I know:

Sometimes (in Florida, not sure of other states), if someone "doesn't know where the former H/W is," (That's what you tell the attorney) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> you can obtain a div. by putting a legal notice in the paper for so many days....and then the legal system in that locale will grant the div.

Is it possible that "Joe" had divorced "Sally" many years ago using this method from one of the Florida counties he lived in?

Hi Lupo

No I don't think he has because he has asked her to get a divorce. The did communicate sometime late last year at which time Joe asked Sally to get a divorce again. So he's certainly not admitted a divorce.

The german 'marriage' occured somewhere in about 1973-1976. Joe has a daughter (dob 1975) with the German woman. In order to get married in Germany Joe would have had to show a divorce degree to the German officials. But my bet is that he just told them that he'd never been married. So it was definately bigamy when the marriage occurred.

Since Sally was still living in the same appartment where she lived with Joe unit about 10 years ago. So he knew darn well where she is. Also Sally is close to members of Joe's family so Joe knew her address all the time. His family made sure of that.

If Joe had gotten a divorce somewhere along the line, then Sally will have to prove that the divorce is not valid because he knew where she was and that she was not dead.

This is such a mess. Guess there is no reason to bother with divorces as bigamy is not really a crime??????/

Every area has a legal aid office, so if she contacts them (or you do for her) they will do an asset test and see if she qualifies for free legal help. Then they will take it from there. If she doesn't meet their standards for being poor enough she still really needs to find a lawyer to do this for her. Not that you aren't a peach Z, but <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ....

Start by asking them who they might suggest would have a really reasonable fee, or would be willing to do some interesting work pro bono.

Call the Bar Association for the City/State and ask the same thing.

You might want to call the law schools in your state and tell them about the situation and ask if they would mind you writing up a summary and faxing it over to be put in the professors mail. Sometimes the profs will take on things like this as projects for a class. Northwestern University Law School in IL is famous for that. Their big thing is getting people off death row, so something like this would be a weekend project for them.

As an old Navy wife I can tell you that if you are on the phone to anyone they will of course tell you that they can't talk to you or that there is nothing that they can do, but I can tell you that if you walk in the legal office on base with her and your packet of papers there will be quite a different story.

I kept getting the runaround from the base about [censored], his ship corpsman (almost a nurse) was being a jerk and not letting him make a doc appt and I knew [censored]'s blood pressure was thru the roof. Anyway, I made tons of calls and nobody would talk to me, so one day I got a sitter for baby Chris and put on nice clothes and drove my mad butt to the base hospital. I said that I wasn't leaving till I talked to his doctor and that was that. For the first hour they pretty much ignored me, then when I started telling every officer that walked by what was going on - TA DA - His doctor became available, and they called [censored] from the ship, saw him that afternoon, put him on light duty..... Just one of many stories I have about how the stupid military works (or doesn't).

So, you might want to plan a day of it. Start out at 7:30 or so, and let it be known that you aren't moving till somebody gives you the time of day. Bring your cell phone and the numbers for all the local papers and tv channels. That way when they get really pi$$y you can always threaten to go to the press with your story because you have tried to ask them for help and they refused. They left you no other avenue right? Not your fault. Get their name, it's on their uniform. That will really scare them.

Keep us updated, I'd really like to know how this turns out. This lady really should have been able to shop at the commissary and exchange all these years and save tons of money. Too bad.

E

zorweb,

I've thought about this overnight. Am not sure that I can be of any help or not.

First make sure that she has the marriage liscense, make copies and puts it in safe place.

A Military Pension Division Order is what authorizes the DFAS to pay part of retirement to x-spouses. I can't find the figures right now, but she is entitled to part of his retirement it's a percentage for the # of years married while active duty. I am just learning about this order now so am not sure how it all works.

See if you can get an appointment at the closest military installations legal office. Ask them what it is she needs to do to regain her military ID card and the benefits that she is entitled to as a spouse of a retired miltary person, be very factful, as hard as it is, try to keep the personal parts to a minimum unless asked to go into detail.

Another suggestion:

Write a very good letter explaining how it is there was never a divorce decree issued, and that her military ID and benefits where taken away from her and that once she locates Joe she plans on filing for divorce, and that she wishes to receive part of his retirement pay in her divorce decree. I would leave out about the German wife for right now. I would send this letter to every senator and congressman in the state that Joe lives in, she lives in now, previously lived in, and Virginia also Joe's home state of residence. I would also send a copy to any veterns organizations headquarters. The VFW, American Legion, The Retired Enlisted Association, DAV. As many people as you can get this out to would be great. Include in all corespondence Joe's Social security number. I would also send a letter to the Inspector General of the Army. Most of these addresses can be found on the internet.

Just state that you are asking for help in re-gaining her ID and benefits.

I will ask some of the retired people that I know and will see if I can come up with anything more that might help.

Let me know how things go and if I can help in other ways. There are some Family Services Programs also for the military HDQ out of DC. My email is notinsd2001@msn.com e mail if you need to.

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know that I said to leave out the german wife for now and I do mean that, BUT when it is brought up ask to see the divorce decree that should have been issued for Joe and Sally and the marriage liscense for the German wife and Joe, if I am not mistaken these should all be part of his military file.

Good Luck!!

<small>[ July 07, 2002, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: daybreak ]</small>

Wow, z--
Your friend is blessed to have you helping her. It's mindboggling how she and the children could have been so mistreated!!! YIKES!

And I agree with you that the govt covering up for and protecting this man's whereabouts is outrageous.

I'm GLAD she never got divorced. She can use her marriage license to prove her case.

HUGS to you! Have been missing you, glad to see your post!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> There's an APB over on GQII with your name--in case you didn't know!!!

I met a widow who had 13 kids that she raised alone. She said she met a nice man who came courting but she didn't want to mislead him so she invited him over to meet all her children. Only she didn't tell him that they were all her kids right away so he thought they were neighbors visiting and what not. When he discovered that they were all her children, he announced that he would be going to the store to get them all some ice cream. When he walked out the door, she said they never saw him again! Now that story is more understandable, but for a man to desert his own family without a trace? How can he explain his way out of that with a clear conscience???

I definately think this is deserving to be aired on one of the nighttime shows, especially with Jane pauley

I think you should write it down in a s much detail as possible, and then send it to the show on which Jane pauley narrates or whateer it is called, and get some good, national news coverage. . . .

its twue, its twue, life is stranger than fiction. . .

wiftty

Start with the basics.

Call DEERS (Defense Enrollment Eligibilty Reporting System)
DEERS Beneficiary Telephone Center - (800) 538-9552
In California - (800) 334-4162
In Alaska and Hawaii - (800) 527-5602

Check out the following web site.
https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/

This page will show everyone entered under his SSAN. It is for an address change so DON'T change his address. It does not display the current address. If her name is there, she can change her address.
https://www.dmdc.osd.mil/udpdri/owa/change.home

This page is to locate somewhere you can get an I.D. card.
http://www.dmdc.osd.mil/rsl/

A good place for lots of info is www.military.com

Zorweb - You have been given great advice here and I wish you the best of luck in helping your friend out.

Here is a link to an interesting story I was reading in the news today. I guess bigamy is punishable but who knows what the statute of limitations is.

Bigamy Story

Wow,

Thanks for all the great replies. Some good info here. Sorry that it took me so long to get back here. STL (my H) is a real slave driver. He’s had me building ponds, a waterfall and planting since the 4th. He flew out this evening.. first time I’ve been glad to have him take a trip.. I get a rest. And now I can finally respond to all of you.

Justthewife,

You are so right that an attorney is needed. I’m just doing a lot of the leg work. Sally is deaf. Like so many people who have been deaf their entire lives she does not speak in a manner that most people can understand. So much of the communication is difficult for her if it is not in writing. So I’m doing a lot of that. In my experience it’s very important for a person to know what they want so that they can tell their attorney. Or at least tell when they do not have a good one. In addition, a lot of what she needs to do, like get her ID an attorney is not really going to do.

I like your law school idea. Will look into it.

As for Sally going to the base legal office… she’s done this several times and got turned away. I think that her deafness has hurt her. When the children were younger she would take one of them along to translate. So here was a deaf woman who has trouble speaking clearly with a child to interpret. Guess some people have trouble taking the disabled seriously.

As long as she does not have an ID they will not talk to her. With the heightened security she needs and ID to get on base. If she does not have an ID she needs to have someone on base expecting her.. like have an appointment. But she cannot get and appointment with out the ID. See the catch 22? The only thing I can think of is to get my mom (she has an ID) and have her get us on base as her guest. Then got stage a sit-in at the IG office with these two elderly ladies. That would be a picture to see.

The ID would have not only saved her money in the commissary and PX all those years, but they would have saved her a bundle in medical and dental care for herself and her children. That I think is the greatest benefit of the ID card.

We called the ID office yesterday and they again told us that Joe can put anyone he wants to down to receive an ID. Instead they can get what their military sponsor is willing to give them. The ID office folks again said that they cannot help her if he has taken her off as his wife. They gave her some number to call… the military records place in St. Louis. They, and others in the system, have told us that the spouse and dependents of a military member is not entitled to diddly. I’ve called them several times, they will not talk to her because she is not Joe. What a run around… we found a local attorney who says that he would be willing to do a case against the government for them colluding in helping Joe in his bigamy and in withholding benefits from her.

I’m thinking that maybe we should record all of the phone calls we make. In NM it’s legal to record phone calls as long as one of the parties knows that they are being recorded.

Daybreak,

Like I said above, she cannot get an appointment with a military legal office. They will not speak to her. Staying factual is good advice here.. the problem is where does one draw the line between being factual and getting too much into the story? It’s hard to know in this one.

Your letter witting campaign is a good idea. She has done this on and off since she lost her ID in 1980. She has always gotten back those form letters that say: “got your letter, sorry cannot help you, good luck”. Perhaps it’s time for the letter writing campaign from hell???? Do you think that perhaps she should include a distribution list with the letters so that each person can see how many are being sent out? Or is it better if each person thinks that they are the only one who is getting it?

As for the divorce and marriage licenses being a part of military records… did you know that there was a huge fire at the records center in 1973. Most of the records for Army personnel were destroyed in that fire. My dad’s were among those… we had to fight for years to get things done for my mom because of that stupid fire. I’ll bet that some of Joe’s records were destroyed too. Without Joe’s written consent, Sally cannot have access to any of his records. Maybe we can get a court order for this?

BTDT,

Hi girl… miss you too. Thanks for the heads up on the APB.

Your story of the lady with the 13 kids is a riot. Joe has no excuse for what he did. His kids are understandably angry with him still. They all want to show up at his house to serve the divorce papers. They have also talked (only half jokingly) about taking out a full-page ad in the newspaper in Joe’s town with an old family photo… entitled “Joe – You have won the dead beat dad of the year award!!!”

WhenIfindthetime,

Jane pauley huh? Will have to look into that. The guy at the military liaison office told me that stories like Sally’s are not that unusual. I wonder how many there are out there. I’d love to find a bunch… there is strength in numbers.

Chris,

Thanks for the links.. I was able to find Joe on the site. It listed the German woman as his wife. I’ll call the DEERS office in the a.m.

Sballplyr – yep some cases of bigamy are prosecuted. There are about three cases right now going on in Florida but in different counties then where Joe lives. The Florida statue for bigamy does not set a statue of limitations. Maybe it’s set somewhere else. What gets me is when marriage is for life (or until there is a divorce) then how can there be a statue of limitations?

My bet it that there is not statue of limitations, only a lazy prosecutor or one who just thinks very little of marriage.

All,

Again thanks, you’ve given me some good ideas.

Definitely report Joe and Mrs. Second Joe to the Immigration and Naturalization Service. You can go to their website at: http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/index.htm Find the field office that covers where they are living in Florida. There are several INS offices in FL, i.e. Orlando, Miami, West Palm Beach

Check through there and you will find the address you need to write to regarding the fraudulent entry of the Mrs. Second Joe. Mrs. SJ is deportable and Mr. J is liable for prison time as well as a hefty fine in the thousands of dollars range. Give them any and all information and dates you have including their current address and any previous addresses you might have available. Defrauding the INS is a federal offense and they don't care if you are ex-military or not. Send a copy of the letter and supporting documents to anyone and everyone you wish to advise about this situation. It could be the press, your congressperson, etc. I would definitely send a copy to the Department of Justice as this their jurisdiction and to the head of the INS himself.

Good Luck

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: LoveMeOrLeaveMe ]</small>

LoveMeOrLeaveMe,

INS is on our list... thanks for the further suggestions.

zorweb

This story amazed me, I am still sitting here stunned, that poor woman.

First what you should do is contact a news paper and explain this story or just paste and copy it and send it to every newspaper in the country.
What could it hurt, this is well written and a tragedy that our government would allow this to happen to any one, and you are right the military protects its on.
Next thing tyou need to do is contact your local congressmans office make an appt and go see them with sally. They can help and make the military do wonders.
Trust me I have doen this and they are amazing in the power they have and willing to help many situations. I have done this twice once while adopting my daughter, they were a god send and once when the military was jacking around with my orders. and I got instant results. They love to do these things and what a great bonus for them to help a military wife..

Good luck, and please take these suggestions seriously they can help.

I didnt have time to read all the suggestions so if any one said the same thing sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

oops sorry luv and protect you did suggest those,, sorry I will just re enforce it is a great idea..