A sticky one...

My kids are 9, 6 and 4. The 9 yr old is very smart and has worked out that when I have a 'meeting' to go to it is about the divorce. And when I was printing out papers for the divorce recently, he knew what I was doing. He is just like that, always has been, yet I am amazed at how much he has worked out on his own.

The thing is, I am the one filing for divorce now, and he is aware, and has been for a while, that it was his father who wanted the divorce, not me. I am changing tack on him, and I feel rather guilty about it, so I haven't said anything.

Do I sit him down and explain, or do I not? If I do, he will have a better understanding about my position on this, but he may also mention it to stbx on the phone, and I do not want that. Do I wait until the forms have been filed, and even received, risking that he may be told that I am divorcing his dad by someone other than me?

As I said above, he knows I am dealing with stuff to do with the divorce, but not exactly that I am filing. He doesn't even know that his dad is living with OW...cos stbx is supposed to break that one to them (yeah, RIGHT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

So what do I tell...how MUCH do I tell and when? I do not want him thinking I have betrayed him in any way, and I am concerned that he will see whoever does the divorcing as the 'baddie' here.

HELP!!!!!!

Jacky,

My ex filed, then I counter filed, and I too wondered if I should tell the kids at the time, but I decided to tell them "Mom are dad are divorcing"...

My ex also told them the same thing, just that we are divorcing.

Anyway, if they ask who filed first I will tell them. So far, neither has asked who filed first. I'm sure it will happen some day, but I figure it will be when they are ready to know the answer.

Take care and I hope that helps.

ANNA

<small>[ July 09, 2002, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

Jacky,

Adding this...

Your situation is different though because all along you have told your son that "dad" wants the divorce...

I think you should tell him that "d" has always wanted the divorce and you are finally letting him go and giving him what "he" wants, that it is time for you to move on and this will help you do so.

I think you should do this, mainly because I could see your stbx throwing this in your face in front of your son, then your son would be shocked and confused by it all.

Definitely be up front.

Take care,

ANNA

Jackey,

I am of the opinion that YES you should be HONEST with your children. I say that because You ask the same of them.

Remember how it felt to you when you knew something was going on with your stbx but you didn't know for sure..but you had those terrible suspiousions..and it wasn't until you knew ALL the facts that you were better able to work through your feelings about it..

Yes, it hurt you very deeply...just as this will your son..this is his family too..but it's better
than speculating..and trying to guess about whats going on..

I told all three of my children..the youngest was about 5 when all this started..it hurt him..he got angry..and he still gets angry sometimes..
but he's okay..He knows the truth..and he trusts me to tell him the truth, and he trusts me enough
to tell me the truth about things..

My oldest just turned 14, she's known since she was little her dad and I had problems and used to ask me why I stayed..she's one who watches and hears everything..she doesn't say much at first..
she sits in her room, or talks to her friends..and then comes to me to talk openly and honestly...just as I have always tried to do with her..even as far as her knowing some of my past..
and struggles I have been through..(she can read..
so she knows the books I've read over the years have been about healing from sexual abuse) so she knows I've been through that..and have survived..
she also trusts me to be honest with her and not keep things from her if they effect her..

My Middle daughter just turned 10..and she knew also because the kids talked..about things they suspected..they over heard..and she's the one who asked me if she could go with me to talk to my counselor..because there were things she wanted to talk about to her also..I asked her if she could talk to me about them..she did..and I made all three of them an appointment to talk to the counselor..she knew what was going on..and just needed someone else whom she knew I also trusted
to talk to..a third party..she learned that if mom could trust this person to talk to about these problems..then so could she..

my oldest daughter posted a problem she had here once..because she knows I trust the wisdom of many here..and she wanted to see what other adults had to say..that may give her some better insight..(they all told her the same thing I did)
and I hadn't even posted to her thread.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
she asked if there is a manual we all read out of..LOL

but, be honest with him..he will hurt..yes, he will be angry..when you sit down to talk to him
ask him what HE KNOWS already...or what he thinks he knows..and then go from there..be honest about everything..if he asked about OW you can be honest
and say "I don't know much about her, or their relationship, that you will have to talk to your dad about" and defer any and all questions about dad and OW to dad..except for those that YOU know you can honestly answer..that way..this will build trust in you..and will require your stbx to work on his relationship with your son..and take you out of their relationship..and make it one that is theirs..

I wanted to add this since I just read Anna's post..my kids asked who filed..and I was honest..
I let them know he filed..and I also explained that it wasn't something that I necessarily wanted, but I couldn't continue with the way things were..

Just so you know..they do ask..the guy I'm dating..his daughter has asked me about her parent's divorce..and I refer her to talk to her parents..because they are the only ones who can give those answers...so I think all kids wonder..

I've always been very honest with Chris (almost 9) about what is going on with things. Otherwise he draws his own conclusions and brings them to me. Sometimes the ones he brings to me are much darker than what it really is like, so I have decided that with him it is best to keep on top of things.

He is a listener, always has one ear to the wall if I am on the phone or if I am talking to my Mom or my Sis. I try and watch what I am saying, but sometimes things just slip out, I really need to work on that one.

I would suggest that you take a trip to the library and find a few age appropriate books. I wish I had written down the title of one that Chris really related to. Ask your childrens librarian, I'm sure you won't be the first to look for books about children and divorce.

I would say that you should tell him about the divorce and soon, and that the whole part of "filing" doesn't matter because you don't have to go into particulars about the court procedure. That part does not need to be explained. All you have to say about the papers you were printing is that was something that you have to do as part of the whole process.

As far as him mentioning it on the phone to his father you can tell him that this is something private, and you are telling him this because you want him to know, and that his father will tell him things that he wants him to know. Tell him that the things you discuss with him should stay in your little family, and the things he talks about with his father can stay in their little family. My Chris understands that privacy is important, I'm sure your boy will too.

The whole living with the OW issue is all STBX's. You need not concern yourself with that one. I know you will be the one who will have to deal with all of the questions when the issue finally does come to light, but for now I'd say let it alone. There is enough going on that you shouldn't have to worry about one more thing sweetness.

One last thing, I explain it as "getting a divorce" not one person divorcing the other. That way it makes it more of a noun than a verb. More of something that is happening than something someone is actively doing to someone else. This may not exactly be the truest thing, but it is the best way (I think) for a young mind to process this kind of event.

They have had to endure so much when something like this happens in their family. Even when they haven't seen everything or when they don't know the whole story, it is still weight for a little mind. They don't need to know that there is one more action that a parent is taking against the other parent.

Hope something here helped a tad!

Love,
E

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As I said above, he knows I am dealing with stuff to do with the divorce, but not exactly that I am filing. He doesn't even know that his dad is living with OW...cos stbx is supposed to break that one to them (yeah, RIGHT! )

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would say that "WE" are getting a divorce without trying to point the 'blame' anywhere. And, judging by the craven behavior of most WS's, he probably will tell them by taking them to his place and her being there!

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I sat my son down and had the talk with him. I began by asking him if he understood what was happening, and he replied that his dad and I were getting a divorce. He found this conversation awkward, because he kept fiddling and changing the subject, but we did manage to define the following:

* WE are getting a divorce.

* WE both love the children very much.

* When Dad gets back from overseas, they will be spending time at his house, like his friend does with his dad (he thought this was cool).

* We are a little four person family, and when he visits his dad, they are another four person family (well five if SHE actually does come back here with him - but the kids do not know about that)

I asked him if he had any questions. They were:

* Has Dad been taken over by the aliens? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

* Why did Dad want to leave? (I told him to the best of my ability and without being judgemental)

* When he comes back, can't he steal us away? WOW, this one floored me...I explained NO, since I have primary custody and it would be illegal.

* Isn't having a girlfriend when you are married illegal? (didn't say so, but it SHOULD be, hehe)

* Why do you keep visiting the lawyer (told him because this is a legal thing and she is an expert on getting it done properly).

I also finally got through to him that he could ask me anything at any time, because I do not want him to worry about things that may not be true. He seemed glad about that. I also told him he should feel the same about questions he has for his dad...to which he replied he doesn't have anything to ask him.

So it went reasonably well, and he seemed satisfied with the answers.

I got the DISTINCT impression that he wants me to protect him somehow from all of this...which I do as best as I can. He made a few negative comments about his father, anger related, but that is normal, and I, being the mature adult, tried to explain the things he was upset about, while supporting the way he feels. At one point he said "Mum!!!!! You sound like a psychologist!!!" But all in all it did go well.

Thank you all for your comments and help.

Love and light,

Jacky

I agree about not needing to get into specifics about who files unless they ask. The procedure is not really important to them.

I feel that there are two things that you must tell your children when you are divorcing.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell them that the divorce is not their fault. Kids usually think that if they had behaved better or done something differently, then their parents wouldn't be getting a divorce. Also, they may feel if they do something they can get their parents back together. In explaining that the divorce is between the parents and that the children really have no influence, you can relieve a lot of guilt and anxiety on their part. </font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tell them that you will still love them no matter what. They see mom and dad stop loving each other and they wonder if you might stop loving them too. You have to make it clear that you will always love them. That a parent-child love is different and that after all they are a part of you and how can you stop loving yourself. </font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I felt it was very important to express these thoughts to my kids. I hope someone finds these suggestions helpful.
L&L

Jacky,

Glad the talk went well with your son.

Last summer when YS & I had the talk I told him I filed for divorce but he knew this is what his dad wanted & then after his dad introduced him to the OW (only 2 days after we told him we were getting a d), he knew it was because of her.

I didn't really tell him who she was, at first he thought dad was staying with this nice lady, but his OB told him the truth. Whenever YS would ask questions if my answer would make his dad look bad, I tell him to ask his dad. He then asked if I was divorcing his dad because of OW, told him yes.

Now a yr later; I have told both boys it will not hurt me if they like OW. I thought for while they did, then thought they just put up with her but more & more lately it seems they hate her, especially YS. I have told him the nicer he is to her the nicer she will be to him but he just grins an evil grin & says that won't happen.

Part of me is glad but it really worries me that his dad hasn't married her yet & the boys like her less than they did a yr ago.

Jackey,

I'm glad it went well with your son...and that he is comfortable sharing with you how he feels..

that is a normal fear I think, that the other parent will 'steal' them away..they want and need stability in their life..and you've always given him that..and HE KNOWS IT!!!! He knows living with you he will be in one place..and won't be traveling all over leaving his friends behind all the time..and kids need that security especially when everything else seems to be falling apart..

Loved and Loast,

Those two things were the very first things I said to him in this and other conversations about this. Thanks for bringing that up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

TR, yes he doesn't want to move again, he expressed that in the discussion. And I know he knows who is the parent more likely to give him consistency, even in the small things.

I am so proud of this boy, who is so smart and so caring, but I feel that he has grown up a little sooner than he had to and that makes me sad.

Anyway, thanks again for the input!

Love and light,

Jacky

Hello Jacquie...

You handled that very well. I'm going to note this thread in my "favorites" folder and remember this when my 8 yo starts asking those questions... right now, they don't understand why we don't want to be together. It's hard for me not to say something other than "Daddy doesn't love Mommy anymore but we love you."

Take care friend... we'll chat sometime soon, 'k?

Ciao,
Nicole

I do not think it is a good idea to tell your children that their father does or does not love them. You can not know for a fact whether he does or not, and if the children come to the conclusion that he does not, based on the way he treats them, then they will feel doubly betrayed.

In cases where the fact that the WS left for an OW is out in the open, children are much less likely to blame themselves for the divorce.

In many states, including my own, and I believe many countries, adultery is illegal - and, legally, there is a presumption of adultery when a couple is living together.

Not in Australia Nellie,

We are a no-fault country.

And for the record, yes I DO know how much he loves them, despite the fact that he left. THAT much of my former husband is still there, not much else, but I can tell you this: if I ever thought for a minute he did not love them, I would NEVER tell them he did. Since I know he loves and misses them terribly, I can tell them that with all honesty, without being responsible for how he goes about showing it.

When he left, I told him if he ever wanted to come back, it had to be because he wanted ME, not just to be with the children. It tears him up being apart from them, but he made his bed, and he knows he has to lie in it.

Also, the person the children question regarding who loves them is ME...because I am the one who has to be the bad guy sometimes, discipline comes at a cost. They only ever say it after a particularly hard day, and a few priveledges taken away, but that hurts, ya know? But, Disney Dad still loves them, and I will always know that and uphold it in our house, because the ALTERNATIVE kind of talk would KILL them.

My kids all know their dad lost his love for ME, not THEM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nina too:
<strong>

My kids all know their dad lost his love for ME, not THEM.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what I tell my boys or that daddy just didn't like living with mommy anymore.

Jacky, you are doing so well. Keep up the great job. While I know it is hard on your kids, I envy you that your STBX is not in the same country.

My kids have questioned whether their father knows what love is. I believe that since I can not read their father's mind, I can not tell them one way or another whether he loves them.

I am sorry for your children if they don't know whether their dad loves them or not. Because despite my stbx being about 10,000 miles away from us, he still manages to get that message across to them. Consistently. And they often talk about it, and they are secure with it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I cannot BELIEVE I am sticking up for HIM!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have read all these posts about talking to your children but I don't know where to start or how much I should tell them. They have seen and heard fights that became physical and even saw my H being handcuffed and taken away in a police car but they don't know about the OW that caused the whole problem ( I know she didn't really cause it because we had so many other problems but she caused the most pain and he doesn't try to help sooth that pain since they still work together after 6 years.) I have told them how much we both love them and it is not there fault but they have lived through so many separation and reunuins I think they think H will keep coming back but this time I don't want him back because the OW revealed the latest lie and also said something to make me feel they have really been talking about me for the whole time-and they are still friends. H claims he doesn't know anything about her private life now but I don't believe him. I even hear things from other employees and I am not "allowed to even go there" and when I do OW parades in front of me and H won't tell her to stop. Anyway, will telling my boys (19 and 16) help prevent them from having affairs themselves or from becoming wife beaters if they realize that was only because of the A --he never did it before in the first 14 years of mrriage- and it have been over a year now.? My oldest is very involved in his church and has a male mentor he meets with once a week. I have often wondered if they have ever discussed things and if I should call him to explain my son's life to him so he could help him -he seems to be a wonderful person and I highly respect his wife and kids, too. I am so ashamed of our situation- I can just imagine what the folks in this small town will gossip about when the divorce is made public. I wonder how the OW can hold her head up at work now or even look at herself in the mirrow- I couldn't; I guess that's why I could never have cheated on my H eventhough I've had plenty of opportunities. Will I be the bad one for filing first? How much of our history will have to come out? My 16 yo is very quiet and since Mon hasn't even asked where his Papa is. I tried to get him to speak to a male counselor once but he got angry with me so I didn't push it. I just hope they are not scared for life. My 86 yr old Mother has Alzheimers -my sisters and I believe her breakdown and monthlong dissappearance when I was 2 was a result of an A but they never talked about it? I want to know the truth but am afraid to upset my Mother. I guess it really doesn't make that mush difference now anyway.

Hi Jacky-

Just me chiming in with my two cents worth. I say definately tell him the truth, you want to keep communication open and honest. I was in the same boat, my x had the A, moved out, kept saying he was filing, etc., etc. I finally had enough and filed so it was a bit confusing as I had been the one doing all the work to save the marriage. My oldest two kids were a little upset at first because up until then it had been him who was calling it quits. I was honest and told them I couldn't live the way we were any longer and made it very clear that their dad's feelings for me had nothing to do with him feelings for them. They are amazing. Your son will be too.

Take care and God bless!
K