The Missing Peice of the Puzzle ...

Saturday w/my girls was fantastic. We went to a national campground on the river with a great swimming hole and a rope swing, spent most of the day there. We left early enough, however, for me to take them clothes shopping. I basically walked them into the store and told them, "get anything you want". They had such a BLAST <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My oldest daughter took advantage of our time together to share some things with me which are troubling her (as per usual).

A little ground work 1st ... my wife had made friends of an older man at work by the name of Mark. He is married, has a couple of nice houses, etc. This had happened several months before our split up. He is involved in an online multi-level-marketing scheme called Quixtar. She wanted to get involved too, in order to generate extra income, and I neively gave her the go ahead. She had been spending a lot of time at he and his wife's house, and in fact, when she left me the two most recent times before she did it for good, she stayed at he and his wife's home with my children. I don't know his last name, or where he lives, so I wasn't able to contact my children during these times.

Since she had me thrown out, the children have told me that he often comes over when his wife is out of town, and stays long after they've gone to bed. He constantly talks bad about me to my children, though he has never met me. My oldest has supsected that something is "going on" between them for some time. He also showed up in court w/my wife the day of the RO hearing (he was the only one with her).

Saturday, when my oldest wanted to talk about something which was bothering her, it was about this man. She said she has found out (from quietly listening in to mom's convo's on the phone) that Mark has indeed funded all of my wife's court costs. Not only this, he plans on paying for her moving into a house in town (she lives in a rural outskirt now). But the last detail was what was really bother my daughter; she has just found out that Mark is LEAVING HIS WIFE ...

Please understand that I DO NOT question my daughter about these things, rather she feels the need to volunteer information.

Now things begin to make more sense. I have had my suspicions all along, but didn't waste a lot of time thinking/worrying about it. Strange to say, finding all of this out makes me incredibly relieved. This man is OLD ENOUGH TO BE HER FATHER. I mean, no offense, but the guy's hair is completely white, lol.

I see two things here: 1) my wife had a horrible relationship with her own father. He was always dissaproving of her, and often cruel, and she has told me often that she wishes he had been more accepting of her as a person. Therefore, Mark = a father figure who will give her the affections and approval her own father wouldn't. 2) this guy Mark has $$$. She also often told me during our marriage that she wished she had married someone "rich", and material things are far and away the most important to her.

This adds a lot of perspective to what is happening to me right now ...

Hello,

I've been following your story and find it utterly heartbreaking. A woman myself, I can't even begin to sympathize with your wife. It seems she was both physically and verbally abusive. This story eerily reminds me of a potser in Deja News, Allen Wells. You seem to be going through much of what this man has (perhaps your physical abuse wasn't quite as harsh) But it seems you may be going through what he did as far as the courts.

Some of his story can be found here:

http://www.vix.com/men/wells/

Ultimately Allen Wells lost everything. In the end he committed suicide (not that you'll end up anywhere near there). But it might help to read what he went through in his postings about his dealings with the courts. Your wife is full of venom and she *is* an abusive person.

After Allens Death there were numerous lawyers and writers picking apart his court summaries to try and highlight mistakes that he and his lawyer made. Here is one of those threads:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%...07b5f2d.20b6d%40apollo.HP.COM&rnum=8

I'm not sure if that link will work. The Author was Carl Davidson. If you go to www.dejanews.com and search for 'Adamn Wells Carl Davidson' it should come up.

<Just thinking some of this might help>

I wish the best for you.

Thanks for the kind wishes.

WOW, did THAT guy mess up!!! Holy Sh**!!!

He made a complete mess of things from the very start. I'd have to say that while I do feel sympathy for the man, I honestly think he brought most of it on himself by mishandling the situation.

Fortunately there is little/no property to divide between us. You have no idea how many times I've counted this blessing.

hwrad ,

Great thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. I didn't think you were abusive, but unless there was something else ( my missing piece ) like step-kids, your abuse, or her adultery, it didn't add up. Though unpleasant, I am glad that it is the last one, nothing worse than children having to endure two breakups and or you being abusive.

More GetSmart Advice for what it is worth....

1. Stop trying to break the RO. It's a waste of time. Do you want to see her?? Counter act her with a RO of your own. She has choked you, etc, etc. This will put the children through the state's questioning process, against her and against you due to her RO. This will help if the children validate your side of the story. DO NOT DELAY. I want you to know that you have been abused, seek out independent psychological help, there is no doubt about it.

2. Bull**** on the 3 months for a custody hearing. Tell that attorney that you want a RO filed on her and a custody hearing ASAP. You are giving her ammounition to use on how well the children are adusting if you wait three months. I had a false RO placed on me at 9:00 in the morning, by 1:00 I placed an RO on her and the next day I picked my daughter up for that weekend and every other weekend since. And to boot I had her 10,000 a month alimony request docketed for 2 months. Get F(*&*(&ing aggressive.

2. Hire a P.I. and/or get witnesses to the alleged affair. I was able to sue my ex-wife's affair based on the fact that I was a customer. I recouped over 500,000 and he was teriminated. Privacy concerns, you know... And in the lovely liberal state of California.

For the others, I have always been a good person. That does not protect you or me from predators like my ex-wife or his ex-wife. I see too much touchy-feely guilt laden diatribes that take the strength away from men. This has got to stop. My prayers are with you.

Rich - GotSmart

p.s. Pretty good crystal ball I've got so rely on it.

Okay,

I am NOT trying to break the RO. What I did, I did on accident - I didn't realize that I was supposed to park at the curb and never approach the house. This WILL NOT happen again. In fact, I now never pick up/drop off my kids without a witness present.

As for the "dueling restraining orders" thing, I don't see what this will accomplish, other than making me seem very petty. I have already had legal counsel AGAINST this very thing, in that it only makes matters worse. This is already complicated enough man! I mean, I'm sure I could dredge something up from the last 6 months (that's the time limit), but what would be the point??? Would it actually give me more parenting time???

I will get a custody hearing as quickly as possible, but I have to get a new attourney 1st, and I want the best I can get. Unfortunately, for the 2 best divorce attourneys in this valley I will have to wait until mid August for a consultation. They are BOOKED SOLID.

Hiring a PI sounds like a good idea ... how much do they run? Also, will this actually help me in this whole thing? Will I be able to use it to establish a motive, or will I simply look like the "jealous husband"?

More info please, less of the "grow a ballsack" logic, cause I've GOT ONE. I also HAVE A BRAIN. I need to make my choices carefully in this situation, because I don't have an INFINITE $$$ SUPPLY.

Thanks

hwrad ,

As you can see after you answered my Radar questions, I have had no ballsack references. Even though others have tried to enter into that no-win argument.

I am trying to help you out with the experience of a mother who is a lawyer, a brother who is a P.I., and a guy who spent over 175,000 on my attorney. At least he took me to Cabo.

1. File an R.O. on her then fire the attorney who counseled against this. God that attorney should be disbared. You have been assaulted and this woman is verbally abusive to the children. If you do not act like an abused person and do the things that a abused person would do they will not belive you. This is your only chance to even the battle and get custody. You should be protecting the children and yourself. You can establish a pattern of abuse and adultery and damage her credibility. Trust me, I was right there as well and falsely arrested with a felony, which I beat as well. If you do not do anything else, trust me and do this. Your entire case hinges on discrediting her ( she is doing it herself ) and making your side believable. This is the issue. Everything else is fiscal.....

Good Luck,
Rich

First question, hwrad: Did your legal advice against getting your own restraining order come from the same guy who screwed you over at your hearing?

I wouldn't worry about seeming petty. Believe me, you can be the nicest and most forgiving and most accommodating guy, and your wife and her attorney will still make you out to be a psychotic monster. In fact, they are likely to interpret your passivity as a signal that they themselves can be even more aggressive in their attacks against you.

Figure out your position and then use every legal tool available to support it. In your case, you have very legitimate reasons to get a restraining order, and you have very legitimate reasons for questioning your wife's suitability as a custodial parent. If you do not act accordingly, then your credibility becomes at risk.

Second question: If one of your daughters was in an accident or became very ill, and the only chance for her survival would come at the cost of several hundred thousand dollars of medical bills (not covered by insurance), would you give the go-ahead?

In my view, you are now facing the same kind of emergency situation. I'm not advising that you waste money on stratagems that have no chance of helping you, but if you can only afford one of several potentially actions, then do them all anyway.

That advice comes to you from someone who always practiced fiscal responsibility. I don't give it lightly. But realize this: in a divorce, you are penalized for fiscal responsibility. And no matter what you do, you have to expect to lose everything. In fact, with a custody dispute such as you seem to be facing, you have to expect bankruptcy.

Maybe it won't quite come to that, but bankruptcy is a very common result of divorce, and I think you'd better start getting used to the idea.

So load up your credit card with those legal fees and do what you need to do. (If you can, you might want to get a few more credit cards now, before your credit rating drops too low.) You're just going to end up with the legal fees anyway, so you may as well spend the money pro-actively.

But I'll be honest, I suspect that hiring a P.I. to investigate your wife's possible affair would be a waste of money. I'd check with a (good) lawyer before going that route. In general, the courts could not care less about who's cheating on whom with whomever. It might be a factor in a custody battle, but only a lawyer who knows your particular court system is likely to know for sure.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gotSmart:
<strong>I see too much touchy-feely guilt laden diatribes that take the strength away from men.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A strong man is not afraid to touch when a touch is called for. Gentleness is strength under control.

A strong man is not afraid to feel, since he knows that his feelings will neither destroy nor control him.

A strong man acknowledges his guilt and his responsibilities, because he knows that he is capable of shouldering his burden.

Without strength of character, boldness is merely brashness.

"First question, hwrad: Did your legal advice against getting your own restraining order come from the same guy who screwed you over at your hearing?"

Yes, same attourney. The only problem I have with filing an RO on her is that anything I would be filing on will have happened 3/4 months ago. We've been physically separated for going on 3 months now. I really strongly feel that this is going to look like "tit for tat". What I should have done was immediately gone down and filed one the next day after I got mine. I will, however, consult a GOOD attourney on your advice. Problem is, I can't see a GOOD attourney for a couple of weeks yet ...

Thanks for your perspectives gotSmart & Gnome. At a time like this - and with as little experience with the legal system as I have - your input is priceless to me.

Hwrad..

Appears that you are received many different perspectives on your entire mess. Many can be more messy and ugly then yours. Count your blessings!

My X attempted to ruin me because of her control issues. She did succeed in many areas and still tries to screw with me even now. Yes for a long-time I hated this women who became a complete alien. She progressed to the X-wife from hell.

In reality it helped me get over her and focus on the emotional side for healing. Today, I don't dwell on hating her, I am indifferent to her. I could care less what she does, who she does, etc. I would not do anything or make any effort to help her at all, even if she asks me. I deserve better treatment. No respect gets no respect.

I tend to agree with Gotsmart on many things. I am sure the he was a nice guy in the beginning too. Many of us were, only some of us finally "gotsmart". Sure I wanted my marriage to work, but being bullied by her was not in the plan. Many of us men have become "pussified" by these controlling women. Literally we have had our spines torn from our bodies while we are alive to save our marriages and families. Honorable, but unrealistic. The family court system just provides an excellent scene for the poorly scripted soap opera to unfold. Reality, the only people who win are the bloodsucking, scumbag lawyers!. Mommmy loses, daddy loses...and the children fall into the cracks.

You have just as much rights regarding your kids as she does. Like I said before, find a good attorney that is not a pushover, assert yourself set some bounderies right now.

Your STBX fits the classic description of psycho control freak. I guarantee SOMEDAY that you will be happier then you have ever been with her. Sure she had your children. Just think of her as a surrogate for giving birth to your children. She no longer exists in the sense of a wife. A mother yes.

You should also feel lucky that she may have someone else now. The pressure may come-off a bit on you, as she has this possible new relationship going-on. May help her anger stay in-check as she wouldn't want this to spill-over into this new venture. She may start stating that she will want to you to see the kids more=(she needs a babysitter and wants a break from the 24 x7) Take advantage of it every chance you can get, even if it kills you that she is using you. During the d proccess this can actually help your ability to convince a judge that you do need more then the ridiculous "Disneyland Dad" visitation program and even towards a joint -custondy arrangement.

I am still fighting this crap and have only seen them them once in 12 months. At this point, I have so much going-on that I am fine to become Uncle Dad now. She has the full-responsibility, discipline, dirty rooms, illnesses, etc. I actually like the idea now of being a part-time dad.

It does all work-out in the end. Since my included a criminal record that essentially bars me from many companies in my field. Plus the economy taking a nose-dive over the last year. I have been blessed as my emploment prospects are bad and have no other choice but to return to school to pursue a new career. She has a big surprise when it comes to my child support and spousal support. IT will be reduced significantly...he hee~! try 100 bucks a month...get rid of the spousal support too. My financial despair in losing my business and bankruptcy works nicely into the adjustment.

Sure, If I was seeing my kids I would be buying things that they need. I might even try to bust my [censored] and work 2 or 3 jobs and go to school...BUT hell no...I have a new life now! My entire life does not consist of supporting her [censored] any longer and now I only have limited responsibility to the two children.

Sure I lost everything but I was allowed to keep my sanity.

You will recover in all ways, emotionally, financially and physically.

I look at my life now that I have a complete fresh start. I have a wonderful girlfriend, who is 15 years younger then my x. I am returning to college in the fall and have never felt and been happier in 10 years.

Last time I talked with my X. I said thanks for divorcing me, you absolutely made the right choice! You actually made me really happy, I can not thank you enough. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She had no response...

One day at time my friend, one day...

-ND

ND,
Why do you feel you only have limited responsibilty for your kids? So you are looking forward to them doing without?

I semi agree with what you say about handling your x, but draw the line when it comes to the kids.

RWD

Doing without--what? A father YES. The limited responsibility that I have is the way that it is...that will never change. I have no cooperation with visitation and you think that I am cater to my X and make it easy on her...Whatever!

I never wanted the Disneylad Dad program...I just accepted it. Consider me selfish if you like. But I am not. I gave way to much, will not be taken advantage by the former spousal unit again. I am glad to see that she has to return to work, put the kids in daycare for 12 hours day and take some personal responsibility for her actions-that have consequences. The children will learn the hard way, sad but I have been literally removed from their lives and is not my problem.

My girlfriend agrees that she shouldn't be penalized for her choice, but needs to learn that I have a life now too. My X control ends here. She has not authority to dictates what I do now.

I have a life now that I was not allowed to have while I was married to the monster. Freedom to pursue my goals without resistance, less controlling and being her slave and solving her life's problems. The less responsibility that I have was not my choice regarding the children. If I was seeing them, I would do anything possible to help them...

Sacrifice I have in every respect. I put them first and ended-up worse then I ever even imagined. I was just a sperm donor and bank machine.

My X was screwing me for over $4100.00 in Child Support and Spousal Support per month so she can sit on her [censored], screwing her 25 year old boy toy, while I was suffering financially, emotionally and not seeing my children at all. You have no clue of the hell I went through. Your damn right I will take any and every appropriate action to lower this so I can survive. Should I be damned to this ungodly amount so that I can not remarry to a 'real" marriage partner because of kids.-NOPE

I am glad that my X divorced me when she did. She did ME a huge favor.

Many can save their marriages, mine wasn't worth saving in any respect. It was a mistake that I learned the hard way.