My wife and I had planned on talking about how we are going to deal with our children through this divorce and plan on custody and those sorts of things. We spoke via the phone around noon and she seemed OK.

I got home, and there was a note saying that she was feeling bad and having a "bummer" day and could we please talk tomorrow. Now this is fine with me, but I am frankly surprised. I expected her to be all fired up about hammering things out. I have told her that I do not want this and she knows that I love her and our boys incredibly and beyond all else. I know she is hurting, and as far as I know I don't think she is getting any support other than through a couple friends. She asked her mother for some money for a retainer and I don't think her mom is going to give it to her. I don't think anyone other than a single sister thinks this is a good idea, but I don't know that for sure.

Anyway, I am trying so hard to stay strong through this. I had set myself up to work on our boys last night and I can absolutely understand why she would be having trouble. I don't think she really wants this, but since she can't see any other way to fix "our" problems, and she won't read or talk to anyone but a couple of friends, as far as I know, she isn't going to find another way either.

Any suggestions on how to deal with a situation like this? I really tried not to get my hopes up last night when she was having trouble. I guess that sounds horrible, wishing that she would have enough pain in this that she would realize the happiness that we shared. I will not let myself get hopeful about this sort of thing, even though it was a tough time last night.

I am also afraid that given the pain that I am sure will occur through this, that she may want to try again. I really want to, I REALLY, REALLY do, but I know that if she wants to try, but doesn't work on herself and her difficulties in our marriage, that we will end up right here again in a few months. I cannot make our marriage work alone, and I refuse to set myself up to be "left" again without some real hope that she will stick it out and work rather than run at the first sign of trouble.

Anyone have any ideas about what I can do in these situations.

1. How to deal with her having difficulty and me not start saying "You are causing your own pain". etc.?

2. How to protect myself and our boys from a return by her? I mean, I want her so badly it hurts, and I would do anything to have her love. But I can't keep our marriage going alone, with her simply being there and waiting for me to fix everything. I would if I could, but I realized over the last 4 months that it takes two people in a marriage to make it work. I can't go through her leaving me again. I am terrified that she will want to come back and "work" without realizing what I need from her before I can put myself in that position again. If you can understand what I am saying.

You are in a real Catch-22, can't live with her, can't live without her.
Your wife needs to come to terms with what she truly wants and then commit to it.
I would not take her back into your home until she gives you and your children a 100% commitment to your "M".
This cannot be done by words alone... you need to see it by her actions, and that will take some time. Have you tried "MC"?
The only way you are going to stop her from coming and going is to take a stand a stick with it.
My STBXW use to do the same thing. You need to tell her she has got to straighten herself out.
As much as you love her, do not take her back until she proves to you that she is not going to take off again. She must be willing to give you and your children a full commitment to all of you.
Protect yourself and your children from any more pain... you don't deserve to live like that.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

I agree with Wallace - but I would add that the way you deliver the message may affect its chance of success. If you are lucky and your wife expresses a desire to return home, you should do your best to be warm and supportive and welcoming. Ask her how she would like things to work. She might surprise you and say something close to what you would want. And if you talk in a calm and warm way, you might nudge her along. My goal would be to get her to promise to stay home for some definite period of time (6 months or, better, a year) during which a program of counseling would be undertaken (preferably Marriage Builders). This is not to punish her. This is not to demand to have your way (really do follow the Policy of Joint Agreement). It IS to protect you and the kids from further rejection. And it IS to give you and your wife the best possible chance to learn to meet each other's needs and restore love to your marriage.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. I hope I am wrong, but your wife may simply be preparing herself for divorce negotiations.

Well, it is essentially official. We are getting a divorce. What I thought may have been second thoughts on her part turned out to be something else I guess. Apparently in a distraught conversation with her mother I let slip the fact of her infidelity. Now I don't really remember doing this, but I must have, because she says that she never told her. I very well might have. I remember having the conversation, but not too much about what I was saying through the tears.

So I think that the difficulty she was having was just making sure that I couldn't take her down with the information and facts that I have regarding her behavior. She says that her "wonderful" sister, who I believe to be a cancer on our marriage, called her concerned and afraid that I would use that information "against her" during the divorce. Her sister is recently divorced and has been the starting words in many things that my wife has told me. "Sister, say that she is worried and thinks our marriage isn't normal." "Sister is worried and thinks that you may use my past against me." "Sister is concerned that I am unhappy." Never "Sister called and told me she loved me and hoped that we could continue working things out." So it appears that her difficulty was just ensuring that I couldn't take the kids away from her because of it.

There is nothing currently between us. I love her and would continue working on our marriage, but she essentially stated last night that she no longer loves me. I guess that I have been living a dream, but looking back, I can see that over the past year and a half she has been pulling away and seeking things outside our marriage. She began partying with her single friends, she had affairs, she was determined at every difficulty between us to at least consider leaving. "I just don't know" every time we argued about anything.

We both worked very hard to get to this juncture in our life, and I feel horrible that she no longer wants to reap the benefits of my education with me. She feels as though she has done it all and no longer wants to do anything more. I am sad and afraid that every relationship she has will be the same because she thinks that all her problems stem from me.

She cried and facetiously said "sure you want to give me the beach house and that life." (We have nothing, but we have great potential.) And when I asked her what I ever did that made her think that I DIDN'T want to give her those things, she stated that I just wanted to give them to her as my WIFE!!!... I very calmly told her, "Well, hell yes. Do you really think that I want to give them to someone that doesn't love me or respect our family." She just cried, saying that she didn't want to be my wife. It was almost sureal. I felt that she almost believed that I would just say, well you put in the time so even though you are ripping my heart out and tearing our family apart, I will make sure that you can have a wealthy life, "You earned it.".

I have learned so much about her in the last few months. I have overlooked so much for the sake of my love for her. I always thought that I loved her "warts and all" and I do, but I realize that there are a lot more than warts on this woman. I am no peach, so don't get me wrong. I have been an [censored] for so long that I can wear cutoff jeans for a hat. But I have changed so much since I recognized just haw bad I was. I never realized how poorly I had been acting and am horrified that my behavior ever emminated from me in that way. I have taken that part of me out and refuse to ever let it back in. But the changes and forgiveness did not go both ways and when my part was no longer the main cause of dissention in our lives, she just wanted out rather than to work on herself. She has stated over and over again,'She is happy with who she is'. I hope that she finds someone who can love her for who she is. I do love her for who she is, but can no longer be responsible for everything she is and does.

In another posting someone asked what I would look for in another person. MY number one thing is CHARACTER. I think that character in a person will cross all boundries. Doing what is right when no one is watching. Being your best, in all situations and having the regard for others. I think that unfortunaltely this is something that she sorely lacks. She is willing to do what she must, but no more.

Her only consistent thing is the fact that if there is an easy way out she will take it. If there is a short cut, it is her "Super Highway". Whatever makes her life easier at the moment is the way that she deals with things, and I think that is what she is doing once again, although she swears that she is not running and that she has done everything she can. When I ask her what she has done, what she has given for our marriage in the last 4 months she draws a blank. I can list at least 10 major things that I relinquished or changed in order to work on our marriage, and there are many more.

I think that I will need to change my sign in name, because although this still fits, my confusion is much less and I am starting to believe. Just not in the way that I had hoped.

I still love her and would work with her on us in a heartbeat with some reassurances. But our conversation last night really put the chances of that almost totally out of the picture. I no longer will try to restore our marriage. If she wants to try, then she will have to decide on her own and make whatever steps are necessary.

I told her that if she ever realizes that this isn't what she wants to let me know and we could talk about it. She was very appreciative and said that I "stated that very well." At least she has heard one thing that I have been saying for the past 2 years.

She wants to make decisions and have absolutely no consequences for them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Quote from Pepperband
Understanding consequences is very interesting to me. I sometimes look at this issue from a sociology point of view. I wonder if our society (in general) is currently thinking they/we are consequence-proof in many ways. We want to eat our fatty high calorie foods and NOT get obese. We want to have lots of sex partners and NOT get STDs. My patients want to smoke and not experience shortness of breath or develop cancer. I want to drive a monster SUV and not pollute the air while I get lousy gas mileage. If I buy nice things why do I have to pay my credit card bill? LOL! And, when criminals are caught ... they don't want to get "punishment" ... they want to be rehabilitated for their "issues". Everything seems to be a "disorder" or a "disease" nowadays. If a drunk is an alcoholic ... he has a disease, and he is treated differently than if he's just making bad choices. If a person shoplifts ... she has a disease "kleptomania" and needs treatment, not punishment. If a priest molests kids ... he's "a sick man" and needs therapy ... but not punishment. We all need to take responsibility for ourselves .... what a world! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If she leaves, she won't get the same as if she stays. Your new wife will get it all, you should tell her that.

I can't believe what she is doing. Sounds like FOG to me.

I hope you are OK. You sound like you are recovering, even if she is not.
All the best,
SS

The anger you feel is coming thru loud and clear... this is a good place to let it out.... much safer than other avenues.

You can't control what your wife thinks and feels... it is something that must just be accepted. Perhaps Plan A is the way to go??? Have you read about and tried the Plan A offered here at MB?

We have no way of knowing what your wife is feeling, her opinions, her translations of what has occured or what brought her to the place that she is today. It would be helpful if readers could have her point of view as well, maybe she would come visit and add a post or two of her own.....

Even though it seems that having the luxury life is rates high on the priority list to you, it would seem that it has a bit of a different priority for your wife. She will reap quite a bit of benefits anyway through spousal support (at least she would in this state)But from your posts I would say that material items, travelling and living a posh lifestyle is not as important to your wife as some other items. What are here priorities and Needs?? You have listed yours..... but do you know hers? If they are not the same, constantly saying to her "don't you want the posh life?" or "you're going to miss what I could have given you" is falling on deaf ears. You need to find out what it is that is important to HER. Important enough for her to walk away from what you are offering her.

I know that it's very very easy to be perplexed and to be self centered thru all of this....but it's critical that take a really careful look at what is important to the person that you are dealing with. To expect them to conform to the same cookie cutter is unrealistic.

Sooooo sorry for your pain ... keep venting here, it will help you heal.

OhmyGoddess

Yes, I too wish that she would come here and post. I would love to understand what she means, better. I have asked her and she became very angry with me for coming here and "airing our dirty laundry to a bunch of strangers online."

I actually posted some things and then got worried that she would be angry and erased them. But I realized that I am doing this for me and if she can't accept my ways of dealing with this then that is her problem. I think the only person that MAY know everything that has happened between us is her sister. I still think that she doesn't even know ALL of it. But her mother didn't know, and I KNOW that her best friend doesn't know. She just knows there was a case of infidelity on her part and not the depth, circumstances, and number.

I forgave her for everything and for the last 4 months I have Plan A'd my butt off. I have done everything plus some things, trying to show her my changes and how much I love her. I mean EVERYTHING. I have taken off work to bring her lunch at school. An hour drive for me each way for her twenty minute lunch. I have bought flowers, clothes, jewlery, etc, just because. I hunted for Dave Mathews tickets and paid $75 a piece for them because they were already sold out when she mentioned it. I have given her hot rock oil massages, bubble baths, sent cards, emails, notes, flowers just to say I love you. About 3 dates a month without the kids. Naked redwine hide and seek night, trip to Florida, booked trip to Bahamas, because we have been trying, but couldn't get the money. I worked 72 hours in a row to get money for these things because I love her. I gave her her first manicure. I bought her makeup that she would never have bought herself and she tells me how much she loves it and wears it all the time now. I clean the house all the time. I put away the laundry, fold the clothes, do the dishes. I have done everything that I could think of plus some things to earn her love and show her how much I cherish her.

This is not all, and NO, everything doesn't revolved around money. She is the one that always talked about how her old boyfriend had a beach house and how much she always wanted one. She always talked about wanting the Jag. I drove a crappy '87 Cherokee that finally died on the highway about 2 months ago just so she could drive a New 4Runner. then when the lease was up, I told her we should just buy it, and she cried and said that I get her hopes up for a Durango and just crush them. She drives a new top of the line Durango now, so you see what I have done for her.
Not just financially, but I have "let" her go out with her friends anytime she has asked and it got me a wife who started having affairs. A wife who would go to the bar and take off her wedding ring, but leave on the anniversary ring that I MADE FOR HER, yes a diamond and emerald platinum ring that I carved and cast for her, because it looks pretty and didn't look like a anniversary band. Then she would come home and tell me about how she would do "the walk around the bar" and every guy would stare at her. I was so naive, I always trusted her through all this and thought that she loved me and I had no worries. What a fool I have been.

No, I realize more and more just what I have had and what I haven't had. Everytime I write something a little more becomes clear.