I guess that this afternoon had brought about some changes in me once again. Jeeeesshhh, I feel like a leaf in a gale, blown hither and yonder at it's whim.

My question is, How hard would you fight for your marriage? When you have been lied to and cheated on. Essentially left twice, or at least told that she no longer wants to be married twice. Worked everything you could to change yourself while watching her do little that you can see to change herself. When everything in you says to continue, but your heart can't continue taking the punishment. When someone that has vowed to stick with you "until death do us part." leaves. When that person says that she "thinks it will be GOOD for the kids."

How much would you fight? I understand this is such an individual question, and that I have answered it that I will fight unto the end, but I am second guessing myself lately. I find myself asking whether any person who has done these things and acted in this manner is worth my attempts. Whether I am doing this out of a sense of guilt and failure at marriage and for the sake of my children or whether I truly want to be married to this person. I absolutely love her and given the opportunity would work til my dying day trying to make her life fulfilling and wonderful.I want to do it, not just try. For I know that we were close to being at the end. That we needed to fight to survive our past as we worked to change our future.

If she could find God, then I know that I would be completely fulfilled in my heart that we could make our lives whole and fantastic. If she could find love and forgiveness, then I know that anything could be accomplished. She has gone to church today for the first time by herself. I went last night at our usual time. This impressed me beyond all else. I hope and I pray and I know that even with the hesitency, it is not within me to give up. I know myself and the love that I have for this woman, and until she remarries, I will always hold out that hope.

But I am about at my wits end and my heart is lying in the gutter.

What are your thoughts on the matter? I would greatly appreciate your ideas and reasons.

<small>[ July 21, 2002, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Confused & can't believe ]</small>

Unlike my wife, and apparently unlike your wife as well, I still remember how much in love my wife and I were... how much we looked forward to seeing each other. How she looked at me after our daughter was born. How excited she was when we bought a house together. I will also try to save my marriage until she actually completes the divorce. Up until that time, I think reconciliation is possible and must keep that hope alive. Don't give up.

Its hard holding a person knowing that you are not the one they want to be holding. Still I tried everything. Let him blame me for his falling in love with another mans wife. He is now my X I look back at the things I did for him & now see what a fool I must have looked like. H would only stay with me if I agreed to change for him, he only wanted me to be like OW or do the things she did to him. He never said he was sorry for A, just that I needed to change. That lasted less than 3 weeks then found out he was still seeing MOW. This time tried tuff love its me or her, he choose her & left that night. I should have just let him leave the day he told me about OW. The begging & crying did nothing but made the hurt go on. He made me feel very cheap in our bed, did whatever he ask me to. later found out that it was a joke to him telling his friends what he would do to me. I watched a lover & friend go down hill but had to let go. One day it just happened I quit caring about him, the pain stopped. There is nothing but peace Im ready to go forward without him.

M-17 yrs 9 months
c-13, 28, 7 yr gd
H-42 W-48
D-5-23-02

OW-30 yrs
C-3 under 10
D-needs Judge to sign
M-10 yrs

How hard would I fight?

You're correct that it is a very personal question, and no one can answer it in a way that will be relevant to your situation.

That said, I have an answer that I came to recently, on the second anniversary of D-Day:

I fought too hard.

It's been hard to accept, but I've come to realize that I was blinded by my love for her. Saving my marriage was the most important thing in the world to me. I was going to save it whether she liked it or not! It almost became an obsession, and it was certainly unhealthy. I held on way too long, way too tight, and I would have been a lot better off if I had just given up the day she moved out.

The farther I get away from the marriage, the more I ask myself "what the hell did I see in her?" I've even begun to question whether or not I really loved her at all. I mean, it felt like true love at the time, but now I'm not sure. At the very least, I'm sure that she never really loved me. In any case, she was right about one thing...we never should have married.

But that's just me and my situation.

Man, do I know what you are going through. This is a very personal matter. I used to think that I would hold on forever, because I said "till death do us part", and I thought I meant it. But there comes a time when you have to let go. I am coming to that time recently. It has been difficult, but I know it will get easier with time. My H and I have separated recently and I want desperately to put our marriage back together. I too, thought to myself, if only he would go to church, if only he would give his life to God, I know all would fall into place, but he never did, and he had 3 A's while we have been married that I know of, maybe more, I am not sure. I got fed up and suggested we think about a separation to decide if this marriage was what we really wanted, he decided that it wasn't. Now I am going crazy, because I was sure he would change his mind once he thought I was serious. Guess my plan backfired,now I am going through a divorce thatI don't really want, I still love my H, and want more than anything to work things out, but he thinks divorce is the best thing for us and we will both be happier on our own. But he wants us to be friends, and I don't mean just civil to each other, he means real friends, that talk on the phone to each other, hang out from time to time, and visit one anothers homes, ect. I don't know if I can handle that I am takig it one day at a time, which is all we are given anyway. It is killing me and I hurt inside everyday, but I am hoping that the pain will subside with time and distance. He is 600 miles away so I am not confronted with his new life everyday, but it is still a loss, and you are probably feeling a loss too,but you can't make someone want you I have learned that the hard way. Just let go and Let God, if it is meant to be He will make a way for you to come back together eventually,if it is not, He will give you peace and joy in your new life. Good luck and God Bless you, you will be in my prayers.

To Godsgirl1, to encourage you, because he's 600 miles away and this will ease the pain but the pain is just as strong even if you were in the same house only God and time eases the pain.

I've been seperated for 1 1/2yrs now, dv final in May, 1 year of that this month I've been 1,200 miles away. The pain still felt the same at first when I had to move away from her, the multiple affairs was destroying me. Her image was still right in front of my face at first, however as I was able to step out of the environment I was able to pull myself from the rejection and the low-self esteem mode, feeling worthless and got around people that cared about me who thought I was worth a million dollars, they really picked me up, at that time I felt like I could have lived in sewers under the street I felt so low and unloved...

It was amazing how people began privately telling me things they saw about my 18 year marriage I thought was a secret but it was open, people started coming up to saying, "you know, don't be so hard on yourself, you treated your wife good and took great care of your kids and gave them a christian home, but many times she did nothing but slander you in public and put you down in front of people....many times we come over your house she never cooked, you always cooked, she took for granted all the time..

I said wow to myself, I never knew people saw such a thing, then they said I'm sure the lord has shown your faults but at least you ran to him to get them right and she choose to Seduce many men and have sex with them destroying homes and marriages left and right...she's had many but 3 were discovered in 1 month.

I can say she thought I was the problem and once she was away from me she was going to have this fun easy going lifestyle with lots of money to burn and these hot relationships, but its totally opposite, she's done nothing but struggle severly since she's seperated and put my kids through daily hardship of having to do without and she has enough money $5,000 a month, what she does with it I don't know, thats the pain I feel right now.

Right now I hate the fact that she took my older D through her JR and SR year in affairs and poverty, now my youngest D is starting her JR and SR year with same mess...Boy toy is in the house, I just hope they don't repeat her actions when they get older.

Anyway being miles away does help if affairs are continuing, he's not having as much fun as you think, it gets old after a while.

Just some clarity so you don't mis-understand me....when I say poverty meaning $5,000 is a lot to me...

At one point:

She had no phone [still don't]
Water was shut off [Her Dad gave her money]
Can't make car payments [car may be repo'ed]..
Oldest D, couldn't participate in Senior events [no money]
Youngest D does without [no money]....

I asked why come you guys don't tell me things, so I can help you, Their answer:

"Well Dad this is just the way it is around here, you just do without"....

That is what hurts because WW has given them the mindset of poverty now and affairs.

They still talk to me in code and hide whats happening around their too so that don't help either, it WW's shield plan against me.

Confused,

I have been married 18 years and my W has cheated on me 3 different times. I have filed for D. When I filed I had no plan to reconcile. Since I filed, I have thought about it. My W has told me that she does not love me anymore. That thought is setting in. While I have not completely closed the door on this relationship, I am done pursuing her. I think that the further this continues, the more I will feel like CJACK.

As you have stated, if someone truly loves you, why would they make you feel such pain. After I reconciled the second time with my W, it was never the same. We remained married for another 6 years but the love and passion had been severly damaged and never returned.

While I am saddened that it has come down to this (D), I realize that there really is no other choice. I still think about the marriage and what I could have done better. I still occasionally think maybe we can still work it out. That is because I am still emotionally addicted to her. I still see her a few times a week and we try to be cordial. It is over though, and the sooner I realize it, the better.

As you said, everyone is different depending on their circumstances. Set a time limit. If she does not come around by that date, get on with life.

1997 - One night fling with mutual friend
1998 - 1999 Mutiple EA. Too many to count.
1999 - another one night fling.
2000 - EA that turned PA for a short time.
2001 -2002 False recovery for over a year. EA with same guy while we were in MC. EA turned PA again in March.

WAW quotes:
-"I'm not in love with you and I don't know why." Maybe that 23 year old has something to do with it?
-"I havn't felt married to you in a long time."
ditto
-"We have nothing in common."
two great kids is nothing in common?
-"Your only a good father when you want to be."
ooh, this one still gets my guchies in a bind.
-"I'm lazy."
"When I tried to take a nap on a Saturday."
-"You go huntng and fishing, I like to go to the bars with my friends."
ahh, when did drinking become a hobby?
-"I'm so sorry I hurt you, I should of told you I loved him sooner." "geez, thanks I feel better now."
-"If I would had slept with another women you wouldn't be mad!"
Ahh, what did you just say?
-"It's not fair of you to ask me to stop contact with him, he's my best friend. Were just friends"
Do you sleep with all your friends?
-"I made a mistake."
Same one 4 times.
-"It's not like I committed a crime."
Killing me would of saved me a lot of pain.
-"I need to find myself."
Well the bar is a good place to start.
-"We're just friends." Friends that have sex? "Well yeah, maybe a little more than friends."
I guess so, where can I find a friend like that?

I'm sorry, I just got on a role and couldn't stop myself. Talk about fog!!

I think I've fought long enough. Maybe even too long. Why? because I wanted to look my kids in the face and tell them I did everything I could do to keep our family together. I can proudly say that to them now.

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Raysofhope ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Raysofhope:
<strong>

WAW quotes:
-"I'm not in love with you and I don't know why." Maybe that 23 year old has something to do with it?
-"I havn't felt married to you in a long time."
ditto
-"We have nothing in common."
two great kids is nothing in common?
-"Your only a good father when you want to be."
ooh, this one still gets my guchies in a bind.
-"I'm lazy."
"When I tried to take a nap on a Saturday."
-"You go huntng and fishing, I like to go to the bars with my friends."
ahh, when did drinking become a hobby?
-"I'm so sorry I hurt you, I should of told you I loved him sooner." "geez, thanks I feel better now."
-"If I would had slept with another women you wouldn't be mad!"
Ahh, what did you just say?
-"It's not fair of you to ask me to stop contact with him, he's my best friend. Were just friends"
Do you sleep with all your friends?
-"I made a mistake."
Same one 4 times.
-"It's not like I committed a crime."
Killing me would of saved me a lot of pain.
-"I need to find myself."
Well the bar is a good place to start.
-"We're just friends." Friends that have sex? "Well yeah, maybe a little more than friends."
I guess so, where can I find a friend like that?

I think I've fought long enough. Maybe even too long. Why? because I wanted to look my kids in the face and tell them I did everything I could do to keep our family together. I can proudly say that to them now.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you "fight" for your marriage, you are implying that only one person is doing anything. When it becomes a one way street, the marriage will not get better (that from experience).
I don't think you should fight for your marriage. Work on making things better and work on yourself, but don't fight. That implies hanging on and fear of letting go. If the WS can't see the good, then they are not worth being around anyway. (As you can see my mood tonight is very negative and pessimistic!)

Raysofhope---
Hope you don't mind, but you gave me a great idea for a new thread!!!! "Great quotes by WS's!" Hope you will contribute!

Doug

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: KindaBlue ]</small>

You are SSSOOOOOOO right Doug.

I realized last night after going to a movie alone, that there was no way that I could eveer trust her again, regardless of the circumstances. Not about her infidelity, which I had thought I had finally dealt with a few weeks ago, but rather the thought that everytime we disagreed, she might just be hitting the door. that is what happened the last time. I became upset, and she said she wanted out. No commitment. No character.

I realized last night what I have always held as true. I always thought that I was a OK guy. Not perfect by any means, but overall I work hard and I always loved my family. Now I didn't always show it in the best manner, I will admit, but I am a pretty good catch for a woman I think. I always felt that I never had to worry about infidelity, because I never thought about it myself, although there was plenty of opportunity in my life. It just never occurred to me. I was married and that was that. Nothing even to consider. I always thought that she felt the same way. I also always thought that if she ever did cheat on me that I would kick her butt out the door as soon as I found out. She on the other hand always thought that when I was called into work in the middle of the night, that I was having an afair. I was standing with 50 lbs of lead on with a catheter in some guys brain trying to prevent a stroke, and she thinks I am diddling some nurse. She always accused me that I would leave her as soon as I finished medical training. I always reassured her that I would never do that. But that is just what she is doing to me. I thought I would be strong and had a plan kind of thought out, never expecting it to ever happen. But when confronted with just that, I buckled.

I felt that my family was more important than my pride and feelings. And it is, so I tried everything in order to change myself hoping that it would be the deciding factor and allow us to have a happy life. I had always recognized things in my wife that I did not like. Bigotry, shallowness, laziness, passive agressiveness. You know, she can see all these characteristics in all the other people in her family very easially, but she feels that she has NONE of them herself. But I always loved her anyway, because I LOVED HER, warts and all. Now I see that the extent of her character lies solely within herself and her own senses. She has stated, she likes who she is, and doesn't feel that there needs to be a change.

Well, she is getting her wish. I no longer want to be with this woman. I realized that even if she wanted to return, that at least at this stage, I couldn't accept her return. She has so much baggage that she doesn't even recognize that it will be years before she even gets the first case opened. And she doesn't even think that there is anything to work on anyway. I am her problem.

She thinks she is so informed and adult. She went to her lawyer and filled out some paperwork. She didn't even know that she was filing for divorce at the time. She didn't know whether she was going to have a preliminary hearing. She came to me because her lawyer said we should do mediation. I said sure. Then she went to her lawyer and filed, but didn't know what that meant. I called her up and asked her about it and she had to call her lawyer to find out what she had been doing and what it all meant. She is going to have a rough time living in this world for a while. I just hope our children don't suffer too badly. I will do everything that I can to prevent it, but at best I will only have the half time.

Thank you all for your opinions. I will surely be a frequent poster over the next several months. Probably with some very opposite thoughts to these at some point, who knows. This is the feeling of the moment.

Confused: Your W sounds very insecure. She was scared you were having, or going to have, an affair, so she did it to you first. She also sounds immature and naive. She went to a lawyer, signed papers and didn't know what she was signing? She's going to have a hard time functioning on her own then.

My stbxh always told me he would never cheat. He said that to me many times and I believed him. He saw it happen to friends and thought it was the lowest thing you could do to your spouse. He always said that he would never have the time or energy for two women at the same time. I guess he found the time and energy. I felt the same as you, I was married, committed to my marriage, and never had any inclination or desire to stray.

And, you're right, you sound like a good catch. Someday your W will realize what she has lost.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Confused & can't believe:
<strong>She always accused me that I would leave her as soon as I finished medical training. I always reassured her that I would never do that. But that is just what she is doing to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think Fingers nailed it. If you're afraid of abandonment, you've got basically two choices: either don't put yourself in a position where you can be abandoned in the first place, or else make sure that you're the first one to leave. Well, actually, there is a third choice: you can face the fear and discover that it doesn't have to control you. But for some reason that option doesn't seem to be as popular as the other two...

I know I've said this before on these boards, but I believe that the inverse of love is not hate. The inverse of love is fear.

"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." (I John 4:18)

As for your original question, this may just be semantics, but marriage is not something I would fight for. Everything I gave my wife, I gave freely. And I never wanted anything from my wife that she wasn't willing to give.

But I am still standing for my marriage. I am still honoring my vows, and I still have every intention of continuing to do so.

Thank you all for your views. I truly do appreciate them and the support they give me through this time of difficulty. I am faced with the question of our children as the only factor now in me having difficulty with this divorce. I want so much to make sure that our children are protected from this horror and any future problems as much as possible. I also want to ensure that they are spared as much as possible from the kind of person that my wife has become over the past 2 years. She has turned into a MLC selfish, lying, cheating person who wants to believe that she is doing right, but is only doing what feels good to her. She wants to be FREE so that she can pursue other avenues. I am not entirely sure that she isn't already working on something, and I no longer really care. But I don't want my boys exposed to this type of thing.

How do you keep your children safe when she wants custody and another man. She doesn't want to move out, but wants me to do move. She keeps bringing up all the reasons like she is primary care giver therefore I should move. I agree in essence, however, if that primary care giver is such a poor character that she can't behave and teach our children about rules and values, then I doubt that she should have any significant custody. I really don't want any of this to be true. I want my children to have both a mother and father, even if we are divorced. But I don't want them to be "cared" for by a person who is so obviously selfcentered that she doesn't care what happens to them. She will break up our family for the touch of another. She will lie over and over again. She will hide under the guise of anger. She refuses to change herself nor even to accept that something could be wrong with her.

It frightens me to think that she will run right out and hook up with someone, if she has not already. Not because I find it distasteful and hurtful to me. I care nothing more for her. But because of the message of infidelity and hopelessness that it sends our children. It tells them that you cannot trust those that you love. It tells them that doing whatever feels good is more important that striving for the best thing for all.

I don't know how to proceed. I am only thinking about my boys. I know that a custody battle would be very difficult on all of us, especially the boys. I know that if I moved out that it would be easier on all involved, but it wouldn't be the "right" thing to do if she is cheating on me again. Again, this would not be to punish her, but to ensure that my children are kept first and formost protected and given the best environment to grow within.

If she would just go and have her fling, get married, whatever, and leave me the boys to care for that would be the best. She could have what ever she wanted. But she does love the boys at some level. She just can't see that her actions in one part of her life affect her entire life. she tries to separate things saying that she can do this in the morning and this in the evening and they ahve no effect on each other. She wants to keep up appearances that she is a good mother. She wants to seem like she is looking out for the kids, but she is really only looking out for herself.

I have prayed and prayed to find some sort of help with this decision. But I am so lost in my decision at this time. I know that I want a divorce now, but I don't know how best to protect my children from this grossly sickening behavior. I want to ask her, "Is this what you want our boys wives to do to them? Do you want our children to have cheating lieing wives to love them? Or maybe you want them to learn that it is OK to lie and cheat on their wives? To take themselves into consideration above all others involved."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KindaBlue:
<strong>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raysofhope:
[qb]

WAW quotes:
-"I'm not in love with you and I don't know why." Maybe that 23 year old has something to do with it?
If the WS can't see the good, then they are not worth being around anyway. (As you can see my mood tonight is very negative and pessimistic!)

Raysofhope---
Hope you don't mind, but you gave me a great idea for a new thread!!!! "Great quotes by WS's!" Hope you will contribute!

Doug</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dude, you took the words right out of my mouth! I posted a few too - if all this wasn't so TRAGIC it could actually be funny and maybe used on Comedy TV...
Peace to all who come here, Harold

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by EverlastingCompassion:
<strong>Just some clarity so you don't mis-understand me....when I say poverty meaning $5,000 is a lot to me...

At one point:

She had no phone [still don't]
Water was shut off [Her Dad gave her money]
Can't make car payments [car may be repo'ed]..
Oldest D, couldn't participate in Senior events [no money]
Youngest D does without [no money]....

I asked why come you guys don't tell me things, so I can help you, Their answer:

"Well Dad this is just the way it is around here, you just do without"....

That is what hurts because WW has given them the mindset of poverty now and affairs.

They still talk to me in code and hide whats happening around their too so that don't help either, it WW's shield plan against me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kinda sounds like my ex - when we Divorced, I left her with an entire house of furniture, personal possessions - basically nearly everything we owned... I walked with half of my clothes, none of my tools, one bicycle, a VCR, some video tapes, and (she really said she was doing me a favour here!) a cheap telephone stand and a cheap nightstand. We had 13,000 pounds of personal belongings. Of course she kept both family cars, I can't drive anyway.
Well, come to find out (thru the grapevine) that she's been selling off her prized precious antiques, had a Debt Judgment against her, and 'is having a yard sale'... OOPS! What happened? I could only conclude with one of her infamous sayings she used to throw up in my face nearly every day before I moved out: "WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND" Bottom line - You steal from your former Mate, it's going to come around and bite you in the butt - and that sounds exactly what is happening to your ex - along with also brainwashing your kids. I pity your kids, as well as mine - they're being raised in needless poverty... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
I rest my case...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Harold

As usual, I'm coming to the discussion late. I always seem to miss the really good ones.

The original question was "How Hard Would You Fight to Save Your Marriage?"

My answer mirrors Gnome's - I don't believe I can "fight" alone. My WH left without so much as a backward glance, so in his mind, the M was OVER. Therefore, it's pretty hard to fight (basically all you're doing is "shadow boxing at that point)

Having said that, however, I have examined a lot of factors that brought us to this place....I examined my own behavior, which led my H to believe it was less painful to do what he did than stay. I was not the best wife, on many levels. "I was totally faithful to him" is about the best thing I can say about who I had become at the end. That - obviously - is not enough. I have learned much this past year from this site.

I examined my H's behavior throughout the years. It's true, he had stopped meeting my EN's - so I stopped meeting HIS. Doesn't make him right.....also doesn't make ME right! It means we BOTH needed help to strengthen our M and put it back on track. I am getting it at this point, he is not. I will continue to learn and grow, believing that will make me a better spouse <someday> - cause I took a vow "Till death do us part." I will stand.

Last reason I will stand is that I "believe" in the Core Person my H is. I love and respect Who He Is deep down inside. I KNOW the man he has the potential to be. Who he was to me for 20+ years. I believe that person is still locked up inside him. I believe that if a person is experiencing a lot of pain, they operate on a different plane. Sorta like a wounded animal. Something primal comes out, trying to deal with the pain. When the pain has subsided, they go back to acting their "old self." I was causing him pain, and he "acted out" of that pain, and ran away! I understand. I WANTED to run away many times myself! I guess I was just able to Take it On the Chin longer than he could.

Not to pick on anyone on this forum, but I see a lot of folks who registered just in the last month or two....who've been going through this struggle for about 2 or 3 months, and now they KNOW their M is over! In reality, this "struggle" often lasts 1½ to 2 years or MORE!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Are you willing to last it out that long? Would YOU fight for that long? As Gnome stated, I am standing. Standing is a form of fighting. It is GOD'S way of fighting. I don't know HOW LONG that stand will be, but I am standing.

God Bless,

For me I made a commitment for better or worse my wife made it many years under the worse, now she has given up and moved on. I will stand for restoration and do my fighting on my nees. visit www.restorem.org <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi All,
I thought I would chime in on this one if nobody mines.
I am probably one of those folks you are talking about lupolady, and no offense taken, I understand what you are saying.
I have been in a living hell for a little over 2-1/2 years of my 23 yr. long "M".
My story was first told over on the Emotional Needs boards. I asked for input from the people on that board after telling my story, (and it is a doozie) if I should continue fighting to save my "M".
From what I recall... I don't think one person was in favor of me staying in the marriage. That isn't what I based my decision on as far as filing for "D", there were many factors and still are.
Soooo, to answer the original question. I would continue to stay in the marriage if there was just one shred of something, anything, to stand and salvage my marriage for. As lupolady stated, it's like "SHADOW BOXING".
lupolady your situation sounds very much like mine as far as how your S walked out on you.
Mine also walked out on her children as well, and has not spoken to them sense.
My "D" continues as I write this. But if I was given just one shred of evidence that my WW would want to make the "M" work, I would consider putting the "D" on hold.
I won't "shadow box" with myself however.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

Wallace:

Not pointing the finger at anyone here.

Even the Harleys say some marriages aren't salvageable.

I was referring to the "experts" with as many as 50, or in some cases, even 20 or so posts to their credit. He!!, at 50 posts, I STILL didn't know what I was doing here!

To summ up, it's an individual call. Just as each person is individual, and each person has not walked in another's shoes. BUT, I find waaaaay too many people on this forum who "throw in the towel" waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too soon! (MHO)

God Bless all.