Ok well I am in the process of a divorce that I never really wanted. He is the one that cheated - who with has always been the question because he has claimed it to be some unknown woman but in reality he has been talking to the woman next door on the cell phone for over a year... So needless to say my life is one big question mark - but I am trying not to dwell on it and I am trying not to obsess - We will probably be going to court within the month so I need to pull myself together and move on - Now the dilemma.... I am keeping the house and maintaining it by myself - he still walks in and helps himself to the refrigerator - beer, food etc... - Comes in to see the kids and lays on my couch and watches tv - even took a nap one day.. Now he has asked me to go to lunch with him and the kids etc... It is like he wants to be my buddy and actually gets offended when I get upset. I mean we are getting a divorce - he doesn't want me anymore what right does he have to still enjoy - family time??? I went away for two days with my youngest to a dance competition and didn't turn on the cell phone and he left 6 messages about that he was worried and why haven't I called him... So now I get so confused because he says he wants a divorce, we are getting one - he says he won't care if I go out with other people etc??? So why can't I take a stand and say get lost you don't want me you can't have me??? I mean what do I care if he geets mad !! Right ?? has anyone else dealt with something like this?? I mean I know I am having a hard time letting go - but I don't stand a chance if this continues??? Help..

Hello MAW,

First off, I want you to know that when my WH and I started MC two weeks ago, the first thing the C told us was that people get divorced waaay too fast. Think about that.
You and your WH sound ambivalent about divorce. Are you getting divorced too quickly? Have you and your WH really talked about the issues, or is this one of those "I'll hurt him before he hurts me anymore" sort of things?

I guess I'm being blunt, but it sounds like neither of you is really prepared emotionally or otherwise for a divorce.

Have you tried talking about Harley's questionnaires regarding needs and how you meet each other's needs? Have you tried to see a MC?

Give it some thought. I know you are in a state of turmoil, but don't worry about the lawyers. You are in charge, if you tell them to hold it, wait, they will.

Take care and remember that your decisions have lasting implications.

Good Luck.

Ok asgoodasitgets - I did not ask for the divorce - but he simply wants one there is no changing his mind - he says I will never trust him, I will always hold against him what he did to me... I have tried everything - he will not go to counseling - though I have been in for months individual and a womans group. He wants me to let go yet his actions sometimes tell me otherwise - He makes cracks like I know by the way we are acting we won't be friends I will only be the father of your children - like it is my fault. Even when he was home since he told me about this in October and moved out in April - he would come home drunk everyday - go out all of the time it was a mess... He simply put wants a divorce - why ??? I believe he is running away because he thinks everyone hates him and no one will ever forgive him...

MAW64,

If he was drinking everyday, then my suggestion would be to gl to alanon. I fought it for 15 years, but finally some of the posters here convinced me to go. It wasn't that they told me and I decided, it was by what they said on these boards and how they handled themselves.

You sound like you are fearful of setting boundaries with your WH. What do you want? Do you want him comming into the house like he does? You can change the locks, & let him know there will be other arrangements as far as seeing the kids. I know it's hard, I have the same troubles you do. Right now there is no incentive for him to change. He can come into your house, see the kids, eat, take a nap. Most don't ever think about changing till they have lost something.

You might consider doing the 180 degree thingee. Check out posts in GQ on that subject. Carol K is a good example.

God Bless,

D.

<small>[ July 31, 2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

willgetthroughthis - I don't really think that drinking is a huge problem - I think he was drinking to ease the situation that he got himself into and didn't know how to deal with the consequences... I am not sure what I want as far as the house goes - I mean I don't think he should be coming into like that but I don't want to say something and let the kids think I don't welcome him in my home - it is kind of like I am just to easy going and he is taking advantage of me... I have never even really gotten mad and stayed mad for a long time... I used to hope everyday that he would change his mind and we wouldn't get divorced but now some parts of me are saying just let him go you don't and didn't deserve any of this... I know that I don't trust him and I am not sure if I ever will... So thank you very much for your advice - actually my therapist told me I was an enabler in the fact the I let him do anything and everything and I was letting him continue on like this.. So maybe I should check into the Alanon meetings - it actually could be very insightful for me... Thanks again...

MAW64

The 12 steps are a great way to live. They have helped me a lot. I too am an enabler (getting better)

I can tell you want him around and hope he will change his mind about DV. Maybe you could let him know that once DV is finalized that his visits as he knows them will stop. (Only if you mean it) That his visits with the kids will be according to the Dv agreement. I too am very easy going. I have had to take one little step at a time to stick up for myself, begin to set boundaries and stick to them.

Is plan b an option? Just a thought.

God Bless,

D.

Maw,I know what you are going through although my situation is a little different. I can't promise great advice because I haven't rectified my situation yet, but my STBXH still wants to be buddies with me too. He is 600 miles away, so talk about enabler, I would drive to him, so he could visit with us and do the "familytime" thing,how weak is that. I guess deep in my heart I hoped things would change and he would realize what he was losing and try to fight for our marriage, but it just gave him what he wanted for the time being, then once we went back home, he went back to his new single life. We are not divorced yet,I have started paperwork, but still owe $ and have to work through some agreement stuff before anything formal will be done. I don't want to rush into it, but I dont' want to prolong it either. He wants this DV, so that is what I am giving him, but he will have to agree to my terms. He wants out, so give me what I want and he can have what he wants. Anyway, I want to keep the house, but need financial assistance from him to maintain it, wish me luck with that. Anyway, I have come to realize that I have to take a stand as you do,and let them know that they can't have their cake and icing and eat it all too. They wanted this, so let them suffer the consequences of their actions. I agree with some of the other posts here,that both you and I need to let go and let God, but stop letting these men manipulate our emotions and our lives. As long as he can come and go freely in your house, he has power over your life, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Literally shut and lock the door on this part of your life, in order to open a new door to a new beginning. That is what I am going to do and I hope you do too. Good luck and God Bless.

Married 12years last week
2 kids girl 11, boy 10
H had many A's
H deployed to Korea for year
when he returned june we separated
DV in progress
Trying to stay strong

Willgetthroughthis - I guess I do want him around I do still love him but I also feel like - maybe I should let the kids have this family time while they still can ! Plan b would be an option if I could live with the fact he maybe out of my life forever. I know this is all his choice but part of me still holds on. I am hoping for the day that I wake up and say ok you didn't want this family - you aren't going to get it anymore. The sad part is that he is actually spending for family time since we have been seperated than he did in our 15 yrs. of marriage...

Godsgirl! - OK 600 miles away probably sounds like something that I would do to - I guess... See now my husband agreed to anything - he says he knows he screwed up but he isn't going to live his life never being able to do anything and with me not trusting him - well he may be on to something but frankly he never gave me any reason to trust him - this whole situation was so out of the blue and so out of character for him.... I guess I am still in shock - Good luck with keeping the house - luckily for me I can maintain our house on our own -he is just giving me child support - and like you I have done all the work for the divorce though it wasn't my idea. You are correct he does have the power over me and he is just walking around in my life when he sees fit - that is why my friends and family get so mad at me... How are your kids handiling this?? I have a 12 year and 9 year old both girls??? I look forward to comparing situations with you - you sound alot like me...

Maw, you sound a lot like me too...hubby was the one who wanted to move out, it came somewhat out of the blue for me too. At least my kids are older. For the month or two prior to leaving, he was drinking a LOT more than he should have and actually passed out a couple of times from it (VERY out of character!). I'm sure it was the guilt of knowing he was doing something very wrong.

He initiated the formal separation with legal papers but I had to get a lawyer to negotiate with his lawyer in order to protect myself and the house, which I want to keep but need help maintaining. I didn't want to have to do this, don't want to sign the papers, and actually made his lawyer change the preamble to read that it was not my desire for this to happen.

Throughout all this, he still wants to be friends and can't seem to understand why, after 25 years of marriage, I cannot immediately go from wife to "Friend". Well, it just isn't normal, that's why! LOL No one should be expected to transition that easily or quickly.

He still has lots of clothes, books, and lots of personal belongings at our house. He still wants to talk about personal things. He still wants to tell me about his future plans (he's in final steps of getting his PhD, where he met the OW). I can only think he wants to do this because it is also helping him ease his guilt. Surely he doesn't think I'd be interested in his future if I'm not included in it anymore?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This afternoon I will meet with our marriage counselor (alone) who will help me finalize a letter I'm working on to send to my husband, asking him "if you truly want to separate, then do it and quit playing with it". I guess it's kind of a partial-plan B letter, LOL. (I did plan A for 10 months previous.) But I don't want to played for a fool, either. The sooner these guys become truly separated, the sooner they can decide if they like laying in the bed they made for themselves (literally and figuratively). Hopefully they won't enjoy life separated and will begin questioning what brought them to that place. Meanwhile, we can build our own self-esteem back up, nurture the kids with positiveness, and do other things to make us better people!

Avondale25 - My husband to has lots of stuff at my house and has no intention of getting out quickly he is like what is the rush - he doesn't understand my need to get through to my head and heart that it is over - and I need to let go - He is leaving all of his tools and stuff because he is moving into an apartment and he has no where to store them and actually he has no use for them either - he also has a bureau full of clothes - I actually packed a bunch of his stuff because it was killing me to see it all there - but I am trying to make the house my own - I have painted three rooms recently that he didn't want me to do - I have bought new curtians etc.kind of therapy for me - but you know 25 years is a long time - I have been with my husband for 19 years - but the thing is he doesn't really have anyone else right now or maybe I am just niave I don't know - but it is hard to face the prospect of being single again isn't it??? Actually my husband tells me everything about his apartment, food shopping, bills etc. and like you said I believe he is trying to ease his guilt of what he has done to me and our girls - though they seem ok right now - who knows what the lasting impact will have.. You also hit the nail on the head about the self esteem mine has been like thrown out the window and I am trying to build it back up slowly but surely.. Good luck at your MC and let me know how it goes....OK I will be thinking about you - everyone here makes this so much easier to deal with when you have someone to talk to that is going through the same thing and will not judge you....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong> I have been with my husband for 19 years - but the thing is he doesn't really have anyone else right now or maybe I am just niave I don't know - but it is hard to face the prospect of being single again isn't it??? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maw....probably all of us who have been married for a long time think this, because we've been couples and relied on our spouse for so long. But please don't fall into a guilt trap yourself! Remember HE doesn't have anyone else right now because HE made a decision and that is one of the consequences . Ultimately only you can determine the amount and type of contact, and you need to search your heart about why you feel he's alone and are reacting to that fact. If he cheated, where is the other woman? Usually they are doing the consoling.

Avondale - actually the other woman lives next door that is half of my problem or is she the other woman is the other half of my problem - see he told me in October that he cheated on me but he was gonna break it off and we were gonna fix things ok - late November I intercepted a voice mail from a woman regarding the cell phone bill but I didn't recognize the voice - I freaked then the said ok really it is over we were just talking etc... Well so all I had was a phone number - then after months of back and forth crapola - he finally came home everything was gonna work itself out - but I never really felt like that was happening - then - I intercepted his voice mail code and checked his phone and there were four messages from the lady next door in the course of an afternoon - though I recognized her voice right off the bat we were friends... and the last message was Hi hon I really wanted to hook up I guess we aren't going to hook up - Ok to make a long story short I lost it and literally almost killed her - they both deny anything except they were friends helping each other through a bad situation - she hasn't been happy in her marraige for a long time... he moved out we are getting divorced - her husband moved out they are getting a divorce - then I found out that her original cellphone # was the number of the girlfriend - but he says it was a decoy... So in my mind I know it is her but in my heart I cannot believe she did this to me or that he did this to me with her and at all... They both deny it..... he swears up and down that he has no plans with her -- Ok so now I live daily with the fact that everytime she pulls out of the driveway is she going to see him??? So alot of the time I think he has no one and alot of the time I think he is with her - I don't know what to think most of the time.... Yikes... I want to be happy for a change....

Ouch...next door, that's gotta hurt bad! I am so sorry that you're having the daily reminder with her so visible. But move on for yourself, remember you can't change either one of them. And it sounds like your H still has some deceitfulness in him. So remember that when you start feeling sympathy, and don't take on the guilt he wants YOU to feel! Think about yourself. You can do this, I am sure you'll find a strength within you to get through it!

Avondale ouch is right but I am trying to logically think this through - I mean if she was really planning on being with him she would sell her house - he has a hard enough time driving down the street to come and see the kids due to his shame or the thoughts of everyone talking about him behind his back.. I have been trying to deal with the guilt for a long time - he has me so twisted most of the time I believe it is my fault but lately I have come to realize that he has done this - he must live with the consequences and he is the one that is gonna loose out in the long run - I mean my kids are still young - we have a brand new house - 2years old that we built in a town that he chose - everything was the way he wanted it and he threw it all away... I really do need to plan b but I am not sure I have it in me....It must help having your husband in another state - is it driving distance??

Hi..
No, he's in NY working on his PhD...OW is also there working on her PhD in same program. She's from California, we're from NC. So the only time they get together is summers while going through this program. Other times its e-mails and nightly phone calls <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So in a lot of ways I do have it easier than you by not seeing either of them. However, he comes back to town next week for a while, for the start of school (he teaches college). So it will be interesting to see how things go.

The counselor LOVED my "partial plan B" letter. I posted my rough draft under the "Tough Love" thread web page web page (I'm not sure if I just made a link here or not, LOL) But maybe reading it (if this link works) would give you some food for thought.

Are you or he seeing a counselor? Doing that would help you both individually and as a couple (if he'd agree to go). One thing I'm not clear on...why are you SURE you're heading to a divorce? The laws differ from state to state...There is a big difference between separation and divorce, although here in NC it is way too easy for either to happen (no fault state). Have you had a legal separation already? What makes you certain that's where you're headed?

Avondale - I actually know I am headed for divorce because basically the papers where filed yesterday with the court I am just awaiting a court date now. I am from Massachusetts and that is also a no fault state. He wants a divorce because he says that I will never forgive him, I will never trust him, I will never let him do anything and he isn't going to live his life like that - so basically in my opinion he is running away and will not face what he did to us. I actually finally got to the point where I just said ok fine you want a divorce we will get one. I guess one of the reasons why I am so confused is that - 1. We never really ever fought 2. I have no idea where any of this is coming from 3. Yes he did hurt me but I was willing to forgive - I didn't say forget because I am sure that will take a long time. Everyone seems to think that I am to nice and I am letting him have his cake and eat it to - I need to take a stand - Now are you definately getting a divorce?? Did you have any idea this was happening?? I can't even imagine what your grown children think of this - I am sure it is devastating at any age?? Are you nervous about him coming back???

Avondale - I forgot to answer your question about counseling - I have been going since March - I was going every week but now I am going once a month - but a couple of months ago I started going to a womans group which has been very helpful - My husband will not go to counseling for some strange reason he doesn't think there is anything wrong with him..

maw,
Have you thought of writing him a letter or email telling him that you DON"T want a divorce and want to work things out, you can forgive, etc.? The reason I ask is that a written record is good to refer back to, and it would be a better (constant) reminder to him than a conversation. Sometimes when speaking, ppl hear what they want to hear but not what was really said. A letter would also allow you to edit yourself before it's sent. That way, you have a black and white record of wanting to work things out before you take that step of divorce. What does your counselor say?

Remember, if you divorce, the opportunity to show him you can forgive and trust will be taken away. I mean, I guess you can still show that afterwards but it seems like it would be a moot point. How tough have you been prior to getting to this point?

Like you, we never really fought, I never got hyper-upset, etc...Part of this is probably God's grace but there is also an element of poor communication btwn hubby and myself. Neither of us share feelings well, which hasn't helped this situation at all! Our situation came out of the blue to me, too, because I took my marriage vows very seriously. No matter how bad things would have gotten, I don't think I would have cheated. My children's reactions were ones of disgust and disappointment. We told my daughter the day she got back from her honeymoon and they couldn't believe that H sat through their marriage vows and his conscience wasn't pricked. Also, they had had 6 weeks of pre-marriage counseling, so they just couldn't understand!

Right now we're just at the legal separation stage. The ball is in hubby's court. He knows I think this is wrong and that he's given up way too soon on our marriage. I will not initiate a divorce, if he wants it he will do it, but we have to be legally separated at least until next July. After that, we'll see what he does. But a lot can happen in a year!

I hadn't thought of looking for a women's (or divorce) support group for myself, but maybe I will see what's offered in my area.

Avondale- Actually the womans support group is through my therapist office . It is a group of woman with various problems but a majority of them have gone through divorce, abuse, or have been or in the middle of divorce - so there are a bunch of different aspects it is actually very helpful.. I have written many things to him and he knows that I love him and would love for it to work but he says he wants no part of it now - Whoever he is or whoever he has become he is to far lost to me right now to try and recover our relationship. He had a really crappy upbringing and I am not sure what kind of part that has played in all of this but like I said it is sad but there is nothing I can possibly do. The only thing left for me is to hope that he realize that he is making a huge mistake at some point in life. Like I said before he just wants no responsiblity and is basically chucking our future out the window but I know somewhere inside of me that it is him not me.... Are you on Antidepressants - they have really helped me keep it together I was a crying mess for about oh about 6 months. Talk to you later. So when is he coming hom hom??