Hi Lonelywife,<BR>Thanks for checking on me!! <BR>The counselor was with us for an hour and said nothing. (In this denomination, a woman is not allowed to counsel a man)<BR>The pastor conducted the whole thing, and kept on working with us for more than an hour after the counselor left.<P> As I told about various incidents with my spouse and how he's treated me, I broke into tears a lot. It's kinda like re-living it to have to tell our story, and that was hard. I did sense the Lord with me, giving me strength and ability to communicate. I am grateful for that. <P>I really wish that it wasn't this denomination counseling us, but it is the only thing my spouse will cooperate with. In the research I've done, I see that my spouse is the way he is in large part because of being in this denomination. I'm not sure they have the understanding required to correct him and deal with me. He looked me straight in the eye and said marriage is permanent and that's it....I know he doesn't like the fact that I'm at the point of wanting separation, but he hasn't walked in my shoes. Well, let him see how far he gets with my spouse next Tuesday. He did get the feel of how my spouse is somewhat today.....<p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited August 29, 2000).]

Hello Renae,<P>Well, it's a good start. At least the fact that your husband is attending the sessions indicates that he does want to work with this marriage.<P>What was his reaction to you during the day following the session? Do you think there is hope?<P>More questions? Were his parents and siblings also involved in this church? If not, how did he become so much a part of it?<P>I'm praying for you and hope that you will obtain the happiness and peace that you deserve.

Yes, his parents actually were among the founders of this church in our area. His brothers didn't get in on it much, they were older, but one left home and attended a college that has a similar belief system, and I see it damaging his life immensely as well, keeping him emotionally immature like my spouse is. The other brother is totally against this type of church and tells me so--he once came to me (years ago) and wondered how I can have a "relationship" with my spouse because he is so "religious" and emotionally immature!! <P>After the counseling, as we left the church, he was a little frustrated, but when we got home, he looked at me gently and hugged me like he hasn't done in months! I think this speaks to how God helped me communicate yesterday, tactfully, yet the truth.<BR>I know God is with me, though this is so hard! <P>There are some sensitive issues I still need to tell the counselor/pastor, but I don't know how to do it. If I call, my spouse will accuse me of gossip and quit counseling. If I say it in the office, I may be in trouble too. But without these facts, they can't see the depth of the abuse/neglect/my pain.<P>I know I need to have faith, but a healthy caution as well. It is a tough balance!!<P>Have to get the kids off to school....<BR>Thanks again, Lonelywife, for your care and prayers!

Does the other brother (Not involved in your denomination) have regular contact with his family? <BR>I argue with mine even though we are both in a similar situation. But input from him, though not always appreciated, still floats around in my head...and maybe, just maybe, I may have to accept what he says.<BR>An outsied view, especially what a sibling may offer in a tactful way, might be allowed. Just a thought.<BR>rrunrr<BR>

rrunrr:<BR>Yes, that brother has voiced his view of some issues a few times to my spouse but it seems to roll off like water off a duck's back! The counselor called today and mentioned that most people wake up some if confronted by someone they respect. But I told her, I can't think of anyone my spouse respects enough to take their rebuke! That's why what's happening now is the best thing.<BR>My spouse doesn't know this pastor and counselor from his own denomination, so doesn't have any criticism of them already in his head. This pastor looks him straight in the eyes and challenges him masterfully!!<BR>Please pray that God's spirit will get through to my spouse and bring about a great<BR>change!! Then pray God helps me heal and adjust to this!<P>Thanks so much, rrunrr!! Blessings to you!

Hello Renae,<P>Well,it's a step in the right direction. When is your next session. Do you notice any change at all, however slight, in your husband since the last session?<P>I pray and pray that your husband sees the light. It is going to be a long, hard road but if it does happen, it will be worth it. It is so hard to give up 14 years, however miserable they might have been.<P>How do you feel Renae. What are you wanting or wishing at this point?<P>Take care. My prayers are with you.

Lonelywife, <BR>Since our first session, I keep thinking of what has happened, and I have come to the conclusion that this is nothing short of a miracle that we are seeing this lady counselor and her pastor and how he is reacting to them!! Up until this time he has had a mindset that he is absolutely right and nobody can teach him anything. He's been unwilling to be accountable to anyone for his behavior, very independent...<BR>and this pastor has him accountable right now!!!!!! I have searched for years, for someone who had the courage to confront him and someone he would respect enough to let himself be accountable to!!! If this doesn't work, then I have truly tried everything.<P>Oh, yes!!...I do notice change already! Normally if I talked as I did in that office, we'd get home and I'd get scolded, but instead, when we got home on Tuesday, he looked at me so caring and hugged me warmly!!! It's like it is starting to get through to him how bad things have been for me. He's more respectful, more careful what he says and does. This is a relief!!...though I know we haven't won the whole war yet, this start is the best thing that's happened in all the years I've been with him!!!!!!!<BR>Praise God!!!!!!! I am beginning to feel better, just knowing these people are helping us! I'm not alone in this pain anymore, and just maybe this is the beginning of a miracle!<P>Our next session is on Tuesday morning.<BR>Thanks so much for your prayers!!!!!<P>Hugs,<BR>Renae <BR> <P>

Still praying for you, all the way through Tuesday! Hope you are still having a better environment since your first session.

Thanks Karenna! <P>After 14 years of this pain and trying "everything" to solve it, it has only been since I posted at this board and one other Christian board, that the tide has begun to turn!! Obviously, it is the prayers of God's people like you that is making the difference right now!! I am so grateful for these prayers!!!!!<P>Friday eve. things were bad again. He started projecting his inner stress onto the kids. They hadn't done anything wrong, but suddenly he started accusing them of things,<BR>as he's treated me all these years, misjudging them and preaching at them. Then he turned to me and accused me of being a bad parent because they are like "this" (as he misjudged them to be). I felt like I needed to stop this, but what could I do at that moment? If I had said anything, he would have taken his anger and preaching to worse levels. I had such a sick feeling inside me and still do! It is bad enough when he abuses me, but the kids?...I'm furious!!!!.... I had mentioned a similar incident to the pastor/counselor, so I hope they address this with my spouse on Tues. This counseling just isn't happening fast enough to prevent this abuse!!! <P>Thanks so much for your caring and prayers<BR>for my family!!!!! <P>

Hello Renae,<P>How did counselling go today? Hope it's moving in the right direction.<P>It's going to be a long, slow road. But remember, breathe deeply and take one step at a time.<P>Lots of prayers and hugs.

Thanks, Lonelywife! I had a good session with the counselor...she is more balanced than I had expected, and I think is better than any other counselors I've met previously (more Biblical). I have a page of things to do,<BR>which should help in moving forward from where I'm at now. <P>I saw the pastor (with a sober, almost shocked look) and my spouse (looking<BR>humbled and a book in his hand) come out of their session together...<P>OH!!!!!!....Just NOW, my spouse phoned me.<BR>He is having a serious reaction to the session today and I don't know how to<BR>answer him to prevent him from quitting. I'm quite sure the pastor is not able to<BR>handle him and his issues....<P>As I suspected all along, but he hasn't admitted in the last few years, he is still<BR>deeply grieving the loss of our baby and loss of childbearing. The session picked<BR>the scab off the wound. I know there are other issues too from his earlier years<BR>that he must be stuck in also, causing immaturity. He told the pastor about the loss<BR>of our baby and that he is suffering deeply from "burn-out" too...He needs someone<BR>who can help him start healing and recovering... this needs more than a pastor. You can't just tell a man this damaged to do<BR>more to love your wife. <P>I must call the counselor immediately tomorrow a.m. and tell her what my spouse said.... <P>Any thoughts? Thanks!!! <P><BR>

Had a good talk with the counselor this morning. She said the pastor was trying to get him to admit that he is being abusive and that he needs to deal with is issues, heal, and grow, but he kept saying he isn't doing anything wrong, that he's grieving and burnt out but doing his best. <P>I gave the counselor more information, more factors contributing to his condition.<P>The plan now is that I will meet with her next Tues. and all four of us will meet on the 19th.<P>I was afraid last night that my spouse might drop out of the process because he doesn't want to go through the pain.... I just can't have that happen!!! <P>Keep us on your prayer lists!! God is at work. I have to believe that, as hard as this is!!!<P>Thanks for your support & prayers, Lonelywife and all!<P><BR>

Hello Renae,<P>I am so glad that you have finally found a counsellor that can help you resolve some of the burning issues in your marriage.<P>I am sure that it will help open your husband's eyes to what you have had to put up with in the last 14 years.<P>You will have to be the strong one to continue with these sessions. It does show that your husband does care and want to improve the state of things - after all he has been to two sessions so far.<P>The most important thing is to keep the lines of communication open and let him know that you are there for him as long as he is not abusive to you or the children.<P>Renae, you said your husband called you today - did you mean from the office? are you still living together? It would be better, in my opinion, if you can work things out without separating, unless it becomes really necessary.<P>Lots of hugs and prayers. Keep us posted on how things are going. Take care.

Renae, I feel strongly that I need to repost some of the things I mentioned in the lost post. I have worked in the area of domestic violence since 1997. <P>Many of the things your husband has done to you in the past would be considered Criminal Offenses here in California. Just allowing children to be present during the verbal abuse and more is worse than negligent, it is considered psychological abuse of children. Violence in the home, fights, verbal abuse is all horrible role-modelling for girls. Where is their hope and expectation to come from?<P>You are apparantly living with a Criminal who has gotten away with his crimes for years. At the first hint of acting out any of his anger in a physical way, whether it involves directly touching you or not, get yourself and the children out of the house and stay out until you get a restraining order and kick out order. <P>You can continue the Matt. 18 process from a location of safety. This isn't a "separation" at all, just caution.<P>Sometimes when the victim starts standing up for herself and showing independence the violence gets suddenly much worse. Pray about this. I think there is much cause for hope, but much reason for concern as well.

Karenna & Lonelywife,<P>Right you are!!.... I'm in a better<BR>situation now than ever....we aren't around each other much at all, except as is necessary (very little), and the counselor & pastor are fully aware now of the situation and moving things forward. I have more energy now so getting things in order for what ever happens. <BR>

Hello Renae,<P>How did the counselling session go today?<P>Hope you had some more progress. Take care.

Hi Lonelywife and all who are reading this thread!<P>Since this thread is so LONG, I'm going to stop this one and will start up with Karena's<BR>new thread asking how I am.... please post any further notes there...thanks!<BR>

Your history on this thread is very important for others to read. I am glad things are coming to a resolution at last, but feel it important to keep this historical thread alive longer. I pray that you will let God BE your strength at this critical time. You have been doing an excellent work with Him in yourself and in your family.<P>How are your children doing now?<P>Have you spoken with the counselor again since Tuesday? <P>Good luck with your upcoming move.