It has been over one and a half years since D-day. My wife and I seperated in september of 2001 but got back together in July 2002 at our summer home. She said she could stay there just as much as I could. We have been friendly but more or less coexisting without any true physical or emotional intimacy. I Have custody of our two teenage kids. I feel she wants to be at our cottage more for the kids than me. She is not close at all but we get along. I am not happy with how she feels about me but do enjoy the company.
I feel that when school starts in three weeks she will return to her rented house and have no desire to come home. I have stipulated no contact with OM but suspect some verbal contact.
I am tired of living in limbo. She will not pull the trigger and divorce me. I will have to be the one. I have asked her to try counseling but she feels it won`t help. What hurts is that she says she does not love me anymore. Today is our 24th anniversary.
I more or less have felt after these two months together that if she could not show to me she wants to work things out it is time for me to move on. I do not want to go thru a divorce but at timers have felt this is my only option if she has no desire to work things out. I know her biggest fear is losing the kids( she already has) and i would hate for her to stay with me only for that.
Maybe I am just weak. I have hung in so long and she more or less has done what she wanted to do( continuing the affair). It seems this whole thing has bothered me more than her. I am at the end of my ropes and do not see any other option than to move on with my life. I know it will be hard but it already has been that way up till now.
What has everyone elses experience been ? When did you know it was finally the time ?

During the time you were together in the house, did you try to use the MB concepts? Did you try Plan A & Plan B? That would have been a perfect opportunity for you. Read up on the concepts if you still have time in the house together. If you decide not to continue trying, at least you'll know you did your best.

There was a thread a while ago about how to know its over. Search for it.

Good Luck.

Scot
I've read some of your posts and it seems you've been here long enough to know the MB concepts and have applied them to your situation, at least at first. Have you continued in Plan A this entire time? If so, do you feel confident that you have done it to the best of your ability? Then maybe it's time for Plan B...?

I don't really have a "pat" answer, but I have been married a long time too. You probably feel things keener today because it's your anniversary. (seems to be a lot of MB anniversaries in next few weeks!)

Would you feel the same uncertainty next week? next month? Or could it be due to the date?

You're in my prayers!

I have tried plan all summer. We were seperated (plan B) last fall and I do not think that helped. I feel she is still inlove with this OM but is afraid to divorce me because she will lose her kids . They will stay with me. We do not talk about it but I plan to say something within the next week. I already feel I know what she will say. She is unhappy at home with us and will want to be seperated again. Maybe I just need to face the facts. I think I still love her but maybe I am just too afraid to move on. Many people have said someone else would be better and woul probably treat me better. I just hate to go thru a divorce but at this point I do not any alternative. I am so unhappy the way things are at present. If I do not do something nothing is ever going to happen. It is my life to decide how it should be best. I just hope I am right. Is 18 months long enough to know ?

Scot,

As for when to throw in the towel....I don't think anyone could put a timeline on it. It is a feeling that you have to have in your heart. A feeling that you know and believe that you've done all you could possibly do to save the marriage. A feeling that you tried. Life isn't a fairy tale...people don't always live "happily ever after" when they marry.

24 years is a long time. I am sorry for your situation. Saying goodbye is never easy, especially to someone you love and expected to spend the rest of your life with.

Yes, a new beginning is frightening, but there must be rainbows behind the clouds you've seen. I can't offer any great words of wisdom, but wish you the best in whatever decision you choose. Take care!

DJ

Scot - 24 years is a long time. We were at 24 years of marriage also, and I finally gave up. My stbx (SNL) was the WS, who decided a bimbo in Arizona was better than me. This was for sure her 2nd sexual affair. I don't and still don't want the divorce, but SNL wants it really bad. So that is where I am headed.

To say when to give up, mine actually came after a severe physical abuse by my stbx. The police told me to get a lawyer ASAP. Told me this man has rage in his eyes, and asked me if I was protected at home. SNL moved out already. I said I have 2 boys, that will protect me. I am afraid of SNL having a gun in his house. I was never afraid, but this madman goes ballistic all too often.

No one can tell you when to give up. There will be something in your heart to say, give up. I finally did, but I will tell you when I had to sign the papers it took me 3 hours. I cried, went for a walk, talked to the lawyers, cried, and went outside again, and cried. I was actually sick to my stomack, and threw up. Been doing a lot of that lately. I knew I had to do this, I knew I can't live my life in this terror of him going ballistic anymore. I can't live with a man of this attitude that he will do things only his way. Yes, I still love this man, I still want him in my life, but he doesn't. So things do not work with one only wanting a marriage.

You will have to look at your wife and actually look in her eyes, and see the love. I looked at my stbx eyes, and did see the love. Actions have to come, and they weren't there. When my father was very seriously ill, my stbx wasn't there. I asked for him to hold me, to caress me and to rub my feet. Wouldhe, no, he told me I had to ask for everything. I had to ask for a kiss, had to ask to talk, had to ask for a back rub, etc. This is not love, this is a robot. I did things backwards forhim, and finally realized he was testing me with stupid actions like giving me a kiss when I brought parts to a service call. He only did that to see if the owner of the apartment complex would give me a kiss also. (he did). He told me later that is what he did. Also, once shopping at Meijers, we were coming out the door and he threw his change on the sidewalk. I picked it up. He said he did that to see if I would pick up the change. Things like that tell you you are nothing, nothing at all. It is sad to think about it that way, but the truth is better than the lies.

Look at your wife with loving eyes. Maybe ask her to go sit by the beach or a swing or somewhere quiet to talk. Really talk without any disturbances. Talk about the beginning of your marriage, and so on. Express your concern of EN not getting met. This is so hard, at 24 years of marriage. I know, this 24years of marriage is causing great digestive problems in me, and lack of sleep, and basically pure h*ll. SNL doesn't see it that way, he is living his life in glory. Good for him.

If you do divorce, it is going to be hard, you will be gloomy and the teenagers will be effected. To say it doesn't affect teenagers as much as younger ones is false. The statistics show it hurts the teenagers more so. They are already going through their hormone stuff and with added pressure of the disharmony and divorce. It will cause a lot of problems. We are having problems with all the kids. We have 16,18,20,23. All are having problems. It is sad to hear our 16 year old say, why can't youtwo just live here for the next 6 years? Why do you two have to get a divorce? I told him, I don't want one, but your dad is set on divorce. So I can't fight a battle without ammunition. I also, stated that dad found his soulmate,lover,kissyface, etc. and I am no match to her. Dad wants someone else in his life now, and therefore he wants a divorce.

This is going to affect your teenagers. I have seen it and am hurting for them. I love my kids dearly. I want this all to be a bad nightmare and wake up and be happy together with my husband in my arms. Or his arms around me, but not to happen. Take care, and try really looking at the wide picture. This is unfair, and not right. God does look at divorce with sin. So I am sinning, but I am asking God for help, since I am not the one wanting the divorce.

I guess this is the biggest question I have right now. My husband first mentioned getting divorced in 7/01. He became involved in an online relationship with OW around 5/01. I didn't know this at the time, discovered it in 12/01. I was devastated. I never wanted a divorce (and still don't). I tried very hard to let him know that I loved him and wanted to make our marriage work. About 3 weeks ago, I breached his e-mail account and discovered things I wish I didn't know. He has been meeting women from the internet for sex. He even had unprotected sex with one of them and was still having sex with me. One of these women even drove to his work and had sex with him in her family van right there in the parking lot of his work. I also discovered that in 3/02, he flew to St. Louis to meet with OW. The others were just for sex but he fancied himself 'in love' with this one. Needless to say, I was shattered (and still am, I guess).

I filed for divorce before I knew everything. I decided to file because he sent St. Louis woman $100 worth of flowers for her birthday and I had to borrow money to make our house payment (I got nothing for my birthday, btw). Anyway, all along I had been asking him to commit himself to our marriage 100% and we could get through this. He kept saying he wasn't convinced.

After all of the ugly truth was out, he began working hard to convince me to call it off. He was saying all the things I wanted to hear. He is the one who brought me to this website. He told me how sorry and stupid he was; he told me he knew he was nothing without me and our girls (3); he told me he loved me and wanted us to rebuild our relationship; he told me he was willing to do anything to make me trust him again. I didn't take him back right away because I was so devastated and wanted to be sure he was sincere. I was within a hair's breadth of letting him come home and calling the whole thing off when he informed me that none of the things he had been saying were true. His words were "I'm sorry I've hurt you again, but I was just trying to convince myself." I was shattered all over again.

The divorce is in full swing even though it's not what I really want. I keep getting advice from people that I should put it off if I still love him and don't want our marriage to end. Even he says he wants me to delay it (but he won't say he doesn't want it). When I asked him what brought on this sudden change, he tried to say that he wasn't sure he could ever face my family again. He says that he loves me but he feels like he's already let go.

When is it time to throw in the towel? How much emotional abuse can one person take? This has been going on for more than a year now and I'm very tired. I wanted so much for him to love me and devote himself to me but he won't. What good purpose could it serve to put off the divorce? I need resolution and so do my girls. Am I wrong?

(sorry this is so long.. I'm new here and I guess I just needed to tell my story)

----------------------------
Me - BS 38
H - WS 41
Married nearly 19 years
3 daughters: 17, 15 and 11

Scot or is it Scott?
I too have been S 18 months so we are floating in the same boat. My W is with OM but I am the one who pushed her away, however I think my W is stalling on pushing the D.
I have a theory she is seeing if it's the OM she wants, sort of seeing how it goes, unsure where it is heading. I guess this is what you call the 'fog' and when it clears she will realise it is not OM she wants.
It's patience, hard long endurance. But I found we should not wait around after giving a lot of plan A. Always show plan A but don't play the waiting game. Let WAS see you are getting on with your life and lets not show them that we can't cope without them.
I have backed right off and distanced myself.
Its been June 14th since I have seen or spoken to W. But I know she has asked about me and wanting to ring me and maybe come down and see me.

There is nothing else I can but use plan B.
I/we can't control our WAS. I am looking after myself. No waiting now...ball is in her court and if someday she rings me up and tells me she made a big mistake then ...we will see what happens.

Hi Scot,

Just wondering how things are going.
Take care!

DJ

Scot,

This sounds to me like a perfect opportunity for Plan B. Move back home and get the kids ready for school. Send her the Plan B letter and let her know your love is fading. Make it a formal Plan B.

I know it is hard to Plan B with kids, but yours sound a little older so she can make arrangements with them to see them, just keep you out of the picture.

Just being together and not working on the marriage is useless. She sees the kids and you for some ENs, but still has the om for the others.

Let him supply ALL her ENs.

I threw in the towel after 4-5 reconciliation attempts failed and she just made me feel like crap in front of the different counselors we used, and then I found out, on my birthday no less, she was back seeing om. I called my lawyer that day.

Hang in!

Thanks for everyones input. I am sorry I have not posted for so long, I was out of town.

I have spoken with my wife and told her that I did not wantto continue to live seperately. She states that she has not been happy while we have been together this summer. She says she has had no contact at all with OM but just does not love me anymore. She feels that she would be happier on her own. We talked about going thru with the divorce and she feels this would be best. I honestly do not know what else to do. I look at her and think I still love her but maybe I am fooling myself. I wonder if it is just that I am too afraid to change my life since this is all that I have known for so long. I do know that I do not want to live with someone who does not care for me at all. She is not mean to me but she does not seem happy being together. I honestly feel she still has strong feelings for the OM but does not see a future with him either. She does not see a future with me either though.

It has been difficult because my 17 year old daughter has never had a good relationship with her mother and wants badly that I divorce her ( she truly feels this way). My daughter began abusing alcohol and just finished rehab this summer. She will be starting her junior year next week to another high school (third one in two years-we had to send her to a boarding school but now is home). My wife feels that she cannot live with her own daughter as to the way she treats her. She is difficult with me as well but I feel that it is the responsibility of the parent to stick with them- my wife feels otherwise.

I guess more than anything I just want to be happy and my kids to be happy. I pray for this all the time. I know that I won`t be happy if my wife ddoes not care for me and she is unhappy. She truly has changed. I am sure there is someone else out there that will be right for me and my kids. My kids want to stay with me. They still are angry with their mom.

I do feel that What I am doing is the right thing. While it is something that I do not want to do I honestly do not see any hope in continuing to live the way I am living. I also do not feel that it is fair for the kids as well. I truly believe I should have seen something from my wife in the last year and a half that would show me she wanted to try in some way to see if things could work out. She has never given me any indication for this. We have gotten together more for her wanting to be withthe kids and not me. She even said if it were not forthe kids we would have divorced long ago. I am only hurting myself by hanging on. It is like I am beating a dead horse. I still love my wife in some way. Maybe it is the person that I used to remember and am always waiting for that person to return. She has done so much to disrespect me with this OM. I know she is sorry for what she has done but for some reason she does not have strong enough feelings to want to try to reconcile. I have to accept that and believe she no longer is the right person for me. It is odd but I never told her but when we got marriedI had reservations about what I was doing. Maybe those are normal feelings but I more or less grew my love for her thru the years and it was stronger later in life than in the beginning. Now I feel what I am holding on to is a false love and a fear. I truly feel tha I have been too weak thru this whole thing and now is the time to look out for myself and my children. I needto stop thinking about past memories and start to look forward new ones with someone else who will be in my future. I need to stop worrying about my wifes future happiness and worry about mine. That is one of my problems- I am a fixer, I always want people to be happy. I also worry way too much and need to let things take there course and realize someone much bigger than me has a plan for me. I need to let Him be in control.

I a m so sorry I have been so verbose. I am very appreciative of everyones input and hope to continue to hear from others. We all need support.
Scott

Scot,
I find myself asking the same questions even right now. My husband of 16yrs moved out 1 month ago and wants to file for divorce. You can read my other posts to get an idea. This is not what I want but am beginning to wonder if I have to let him go to have any chamce of getting him back. I am trying to implement plan A but it seems like we take 2 steps forward and 3 back. I am really having a lousy time. If you want to talk you can email me slbritton5406@cs.com.
I have the same doubts and thoughts as you do about I am trying to stay just because I am settled? I'll keep you in my prayers.
lynette

Hi Scot.
I think for there to be any hope in the enar future your wife is going to need some counseling (along w/ you). Try the Marriage Builders phone thing. I would say that it may pay off to be tactical in getting her to do sounseling. I don;t know, maybe so sort of coercian. Anyway, I think without guidance or help she may continue away from you. Rememerb to you can only do so much and try so many ways to tell her how you feel and try to get her to get help with you and work on things. "You can lead a horse to water, but can;t make it drink" GOOD LUCK!!

Hi Scot,

I'm sorry for the pain you and your family are dealing with. I can't say I have advice for you, but just want to offer my opinion.

As I've said earlier, you have to know in your heart when it is time to end the marriage, and it sounds like you've reached that point. You have to know it is the right thing to do. I know many people say to keep trying, and I think that is right, in some circumstances. Don't get me wrong, a person needs to do everything they can do (counseling, etc.) to keep the marriage intact; but, after trying so long, they have to move on.

Your wife seems to be clearly against trying to make things work. She seems set on not loving you. My prayers are with your daughter and her recovery from alcohol, as well as with your other kids, too. I'm sure they are hurt by their mother's actions.

I've realize that my whole life I've been a fixer too. I've always tried to make everyone around me happy....my family, friends, co-workers, whoever. But, you know what? The more I tried making them happy, the less happier I was. Sometimes you need to do things for YOU....and make YOU happy!!

Change is difficult, especially when we are used to the same thing. But it is also a time of new beginnings and opportunities. You'll always remember your wife as the person she was and the person you love. But sometimes people change, for whatever reason we can't understand.

Good luck in your decision. There will be a rainbow behind the clouds you've seen. Take care!

DJ

This is a good question and one I am struggling with husband and I have been seperated for approx 4 years he lives 500 miles away, I have the three children and have been acting as if most of the time. Husband is a alcholic/ casual pot smoker husband has stints where he tries to make changes and then he falls back on the wagon. Myself I have not been in any relationships and husband has been in one that I know of. At times husband and I have been intimate, I find it hasn't screwed me up and was a need I needed fufilled. As of lately I am starting to wonder if I should divorce this person as nothing has much has changed in the past 4 years and I am getting lonley, I feel my life fufilling but something seems to be missing. Sorry for rambling but these things are hard to talk to some people about.

Jazz

Scot

I read with interest your last post. What was apparent to me was your admission that you may not have loved your wife when you married(or you weren’t sure). The kind of love that grows is what I have experienced in my marriage, which started out terribly, that is, we married for the child’s sake. This, I know, has always been an issue to my EX, since women need to know that they are loved beyond all else. That we would literally die for them. We cannot blame them for feeling like this. Perhaps in some way, your wife has sensed through the years that yours has been this kind of love. Perhaps she longs to see from you the passion that will make her dizzy with attention, that will set her heart racing…..that kind of stuff. The kind of attention that our women receive from OM’s when they move in for the kill, to win them over, makes the women feel wanted in that special way.

Last year some time, after my then wife had done seeing her OM, I set about seducing her, completely just coming on to her with all guns blazing, …she fell for it , hook, line & sinker……she was completely within my power. However, this felt all completely false to me, since I had set about deliberately doing this. I wanted a deeper, genuine 50/50 relationship, with real love & affection & consideration. I felt that if I could seduce her so easily, just by saying certain things, doing certain things, being CORNY AS HELL, that there was no substantial love & respect which is what I wanted for both of us. That if we continued, that NONE of the problems in our marriage would go away, since we’d concentrate on the romantic love aspect. She expected, after trashing my emotions & putting me through HELL, that I would wine & dine & woo her, and win her heart, with all else just swept under the carpet. I could not live with that, and I wanted more. She told close friends of ours, after they told her how I still felt about her, “…….yes, but he’s not trying hard enough…”. She obviously wanted to be wooed. I wanted us to work things out. I guess it comes down to the person your are……I cannot change who I am, and I’ve made peace with it. I can’t help wondering what may have happened, though, had I done what she wanted, although I can imagine. She has had a huge problem with admitting to her own faults and problems, and refused to work on them. Our egos clash BIG TIME, and for the sake of peace, I usually capitulate. She does not understand the concept of compromise. She does not understand the concept of apology. She has apologised to me more in 2 months of divorce, than in 14yrs of marriage. (!) My marriage partner needs to be one which is primarily my friend, and who is secure enough within herself, to do without constant reassurance. My lack of jealousy in our relationship also made her insecure. Or perhaps I should say, if I were more jealous, she would have been happier. Maybe this seems to be more about me, (I’m sorry), but I seem to sense the desire in your wife for this kind of romantic hype, which would assure her of the way you feel. While she’s with you & the kids, she sees a stable, loving father, all-round good guy, who is perhaps just a little boring. I may be wrong, but I think this is true for my ex, anyway.

So if you REALLY want her, I think you need to GO FOR IT with her in a big way. The problem you may face, is that you are afraid of being hurt again. No pain, no gain, however. Also, you need to wait at least 6 months AFTER her A with OM is over before she “returns to normal”, for you to do this with any chance of success. Don’t do her the favour of filing, unless YOU have decided you’ve had enough, and really want to move on. You won’t find someone in 6 months (or rather won’t want to), so why not just pretend to yourself that the marriage is over, and “practice” living alone for yourself, and the kids. This will give you the time & space to recover emotionally. Don’t pursue her in this time. Don’t plead with her. She can join in your family times if she wishes, but keep yourself scarce. Don’t spend too much time with her. Enjoy your friends. Date. (yes, DATE). Live on!

Good luck with your decision
Muzohead

Thanks to everyone for their input. I moved back home on Sunday and my wife moved back to her rented house. She wants to go thru the divorce and I feel I do not have much choice. I told her that if things were not different when the summer ended that I felt I would need to "move on". She did not argue with me and said this would be best. I honestly have tried everything to make this work(Plan A, Plan B, even going out of my way to woo her back). I feel that her feelings changed about 3 years ago when she met this OM. She went head over heels. During the affair she rented two apartments on two seperate occasions to continue to see him all the while lying to me. She says that he is not in her future but I do not know what she would say otherwise. She seems so content being on her own and much happier. I do not know how she can stand being away from her own kids and only seeing them for a few minutes every few days. I am still dependent on her because I have to work full time( she does not work) to support my kids and her. I cannot drive the kids to school always and she has to do it( she is willing). It seemed that for so long that I hurt because I wanted her back so bad and never got any indication that she wanted to come back to me. I suspect she does look at me as a good provider and a great a Dad but she is no longer excited to be with me. Well, I finally realize that my love for her is no longer there. The person that I love is gone and I just keep thinking of the past (the person I married who has now gone). The person she is now is someone I do not care for. Yes, she still can be nice and we can carry on a conversation but I can do this with many people. The person I want to be a soulmate with should be my best friend, companion and be emotionally attached. My wife is no longer this person to me. It is difficult but I now despise her for who she has become and what she has done to me and her kids. I know she is sorry but not enough to make things right with me. I now have the feeling that I would not be happy staying with her for the rest of my life the way she is and feels about me. We had many good years together but sometimes I feel that for all that has happened I wish I had never married her. That I s hard to say since we were married 24 years. Maybe I am just angry.
Everyone says that when the time comes you will know it is time to move on. I will never fault myself that I waited this long because at least I know I tried (she did`nt). I feel comfortable with my decision even thogh it is never what I wanted to happen. I just now feel that it is beyond my control and really the decision is being made by her just as much me. I have always known it takes two to make a relationship work. Well, for the last two years I have been working alone and I now realize this. If anything I wish I was not so blind.
I do not look forward to going thru the divorce but I have to believe as said that their is a rainbow somewhere beyond the clouds. All I do know is that I am not alone in this struggle and I am now going to put my children and myself first.
I do hope I still hear from others because this has been so helpful. Just to know how others have handled their situations is very helpful.
Scott

Scot,

Best of luck with your decision. For the time being, anyway, I think it's the right one. However, don't be surprised if she comes knocking after 6 months to a year, after all the fog has cleared. but don't hold your breath either.

I gave my ex 6-7 months after A (1st)ended. No luck.

Strength to you. It DOES get easier.
Muzohead