Hi - I'm new to posting here but have been visiting and learning for a very long time. I discovered MB in June 2000, shortly after discovering my WH's long-term affair with his office manager.

It has helped me so much to learn from others here. I am struggling right now with trying to figure out why my STBXH feels the need to be so mean. He is getting everything he wants - a new life together with his girlfriend/soulmate, essentially no family responsibilities, and no financial responsibilities toward us. He abandoned us emotionally a long time ago. I support myself and our children entirely. He doesn't give me one cent toward our children's support. By his own choice, he sees them for about an hour once a week to take them to dinner and for a 24-hour overnight twice a month.

Yet he finds all sorts of ways to make life difficult for me during these divorce proceedings. For example, he does petty things, such as changing the address of record for a travel agency account which meant my recent travel documents went to his house. He neglected to give them to me so I had to make multiple phone calls to straighten it out and get another set.

We have a teenage son who is really devastated by with his father's betrayal of us, and yet my STBX finds all sorts of reasons to put our son in the middle. He makes him pass messages to me, even though I have asked repeatedly that he should communicate with me directly and not through the children. I even had the lawyers speak to him about it. That made him more angry, of course. He tells his family that it is my fault he had an affair.

Why so much anger at me when I am getting out of his way to let him have the life he wanted? I am the one who has done the most work to move along the divorce proceedings, and getting our house ready to sell, and picking up the pieces for our children. What right does he have to blame me for everything? Didn't it occur to him that he would lose his family and his home and our comfortable lifestyle over this?

I am no psychoanalyst but I think that they are so mean because they need to cut the ties with us completely. If they were kind and caring and thoughtful, it would just lead us on and confuse things.

They need to make a clean break and this is the only way to do it.

Nothing is fair or decent about it. The one thing I can suggest is not to let him drag you down by his thoughtlessness.

It is devastating, I have been there, too. It is absolutely bewildering. But they are cruel because it works for them and suits their purposes.

Take care of yourself,

jt

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jtois:
<strong>I am no psychoanalyst but I think that they are so mean because they need to cut the ties with us completely. If they were kind and caring and thoughtful, it would just lead us on and confuse things.

They need to make a clean break and this is the only way to do it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not a psychologist either, but I think the answer is exactly the opposite.

The best way to make a clean break is to make a clean break.

Perpetual pettiness is NOT making a clean break. Rather, it is sustaining a connection. And that connection is what the WS needs.

If the WS feels bad but doesn't want to take responsibility for those bad feelings, then someone else must be to blame. And if the WS doesn't maintain a relationship of some sort with the BS, it becomes difficult for the WS to keep blaming the BS.

Of course, the facts of the situation don't matter. For instance, if the WS has a fight with the OP, the OP can't be to blame for the resultant bad feelings, since after all the WS and the OP are "in love". But someone must get the blame. Guess who? Pick a villain, any villain...aw, what do you know, there just happens to be a convenient villain right...here! Smile for the camera and don't forget your shovel.

The psychoanalysts use bigger words and make this all seem a lot more complicated (and of course it really is a lot more complicated), but I'm not sure how important it is to understand the details of the psychological mechanisms involved. The bottom line is that in cases like these, the more you try to give them what they want, the nastier they tend to get.

C,

I am no psychoanalist either but could it be guilt? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

d.

Guilt is among the baddest of bad feelings...

Gnome,

You are my new God! I've been wondering about all the continued nastiness from my XW even though we've been D'd for almost a year now. She is relentless! The BS becomes the whipping post for their frustrations. They can't take it out on the OP, because they're in love! Gnome, right on baby!

It certainly doesn't spell a recipe for the success of the WS's new relationship.

Well, my XW is going to be slapped with a court order due to her non-compliance with the visitatin agreement. I'm sorry (really) that it is going to hit her about 2 weeks before her wedding. I guess if she's strong and her new relationship is strong, she should be able to handle it. The judge, the custody evaluator, my XW and her attorney said, "Oh what a liberal visitation arrangement this will be!" Complete and utter Bu!!$h!+!!

Thanks Gnome!

Ditto to GnomeDePlume and Willgetthru this. I have been going through something similar. I believe in my case, my stbxh is very angry and he is taking his anger out on me. I do not believe his plans with the OW have turned out the way he expected. He has been living with her for six months now and I hear there are a lot of problems. So, I guess that is all my fault. Of course, I made him have the affair. If he's unhappy, he certainly doesn't want me to be happy, so he is going to lash out in any way he can. It is very childish.

When my stbxh cancelled various things, like insurance, without telling me, I just let it slide. I didn't respond. It would have just made him proud of himself for getting me angry. He doesn't have the satisfaction of seeing me mad if I don't respond to his juvenile tactics. You see, I think he wants me to be angry and hurting just like him. Well, I refuse. I will live a good and happy life and do my best to rise above the hurt and anger.

I also believe there is a lot of guilt involved so they get angry at us, blame us for everything, and that alleviates their guilt. But deep down they know the truth. In the long run, the anger will turn around and bite them right back.

Could it be a manner of power and control??

By being able to rattle you with his petty little behavior is able to control your feelings to a degree.
Do you show how his behavior bothers you? I think if he saw that he got no reaction from you for his silly immature behaviors then he would see no point in continuing it.

Just a thought. Hope things get better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm not yet D'd, but the MC we're seeing to work on communication told me to expect him to get angrier. That he's supressed feeling for so long that it's going to come out and be directed at the most likely target - ME. Could be the same for you. I'm dreading the near term.

Hi Newly.......UGH......When does it end?

Hope you and children are well. I hope to be buying a new home in the next month. I'm checking one out with an in-ground pool this weekend!

Take Care.
Jay B.

My STBXW and I can comunicate w/o any problems unless we talk about our problems and issues. She is not thinking logically. We do even better with email. Now add the STBX-Laws and all H-E double toothpicks breaks loose. They are rediculous. I am a softball coach and it is coach pitch style play. I was pitching from 10 feet and the girl hit me with a line drive. The entire crowd gasped for air until they saw that I was OK. The entire crowd w/ exception to my X-laws. They cheered and clapped. My STBXW lives w/ her folks. I can not get out of my car when I pick up my kids. They send them w/ no extra clothes on a 5 night stay. They are really mad at me because the court custody order gives my kids to me 12 of 30 days a month minimum. Some months I get them more. As they see it I am a butt hole because I want 50/50 custody of my kids.

Catamount, good to see you on the boards. Good luck getting a house. I'd love to come to a pool party. I'm still looking for a house, but don't know when I'll get things settled. We have a settlement proposal, but he's balking on the specific days. Have you been able to see your daughter more lately? Your brother, etc.

STV
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They send them w/ no extra clothes on a 5 night stay. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did this too. If you're getting them 12 days / month, you are responsible for their care, food and clothing during that time. Child support is intended to cover the time they're with your X. My H demanded clothes, then returned the clothes dirty. After 4 months, I stopped sending clothes. I had to buy them new clothes since they grew, it was time he did too. This is what being a parent means, you need to do everything for them on your time. Read up on the laws.
I did laugh about your laws cheering. Easy to picture.

Thanks, everyone for your responses. It always amazes me how similar some of our stories are. So much heartache, so much unnecessary difficulty, and yes- even downright cruelty.

There were some interesting insights in your responses. I had of course considered the possibility that guilt is driving his actions, but it seems so pointless. If you feel guilty about hurting your children and someone you loved (at least in the past!) then why make it even worse by treating them so badly? Why add insult to injury?

I guess I would hope that my children's father would have enough of a conscience to feel guilty about causing so much pain. I wonder, though, whether he is capable of guilt, or even capable of reflecting on the damage he has done. I doubt that he can admit to himself that he is hurting our children by his actions. I think he is still in denial about that.

tryingtostartover, you asked whether I let him see that his behavior bothers me. I try very hard not to let it show - I try to go by the motto "never let them see you sweat". Most of the time I just solve the problem as best I can and go on to the next. When the thing about the missing travel documents came up, I never even let him know I knew they were missing. Why give him the satisfaction of knowing I was inconvenienced?

I contact him only through email unless it is a true emergency, such as the time I needed our passports for a 6 a.m. flight and discovered at midnight that he had taken the key to the safe! I had to call him in the middle of the night to ask him to bring the key over. I'll bet the girlfriend loved that! At first he denied having it, and when that didn't work he wanted me to meet him at a gas station halfway ((he lives about 40 miles away) but that didn't seem terribly appopriate to me.

When it comes to my children, I do take a firm stand. I will not let him put them in the middle and cause even more emotional damage. Even if he will not act like an adult, I feel that one of us has to, and I am going to fiercely protect my kids.

I think you are right about it being a matter of power and control. He is angry that I am not wilting like a dying flower in this summer heat. I am a fairly assertive person and I tried very hard during our marriage not to let that interfere - if anything, I bent over backward to accommodate him and his needs so as not to seem overbearing or controlling. Now that our marriage is coming to an end, he has to find a way to control me from afar? What an interesting thought.

Chenille,

Stay strong. Sounds like you are handling yourself very well.
His power and control games will probably fade away as he sees they have little effect on you.
I admire your strength. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you! Honestly, though, most days I don't feel strong. Most days I feel totally overwhelmed. So much to do, so little time to do it in, trying to keep it all together, trying to keep things as normal as possible for my kids.

I spent twenty years of my life trying to be the kind of wife he wanted me to be. I tried so hard to make it easy for him and to defer to him so as not to seem like a nag or a shrew. Why wasn't it enough? Why wasn't I good enough for him any more? How could I have been so hard to live with?

Chenille,

I'm sure you feel overwhelmed, who wouldn't ???
But it sounds like you are doing the very best you can.

You are strong.

As I know very little about your marriage I can't make much of an analysis of the situation but your remark about "I tried for 20 years to be what he wanted me to be" or something to that affect, made me think that I can relate to that feeling.

I think you will probably be a much more authentic and joyful person out of this marriage.

I do home health nursing and one of my little patients (87 years old) said to me one day when I was talking to him about my marriage said
" You've only got one life and If you've lived your life like somebody else wanted you to live it then you aint had no life at all"

Wise words aren't they?
.

I feel like I have kinda rambled, hope it made sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hi Chenille, I, too, can relate to your story and I agree wholeheartedly with GnomeDePlume. While I've done my best to move on with my life (even started dating again recently <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), my STBXH, who moved in with MOW 20 months ago, has continued his hateful, vitriolic, blaming diatribe against me any chance he gets - though he can't find many people to listen anymore other than the OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

He denies any responsibility for anything - I drove him to leave, to have an affair, to drink again after almost 10 years sobriety (though he says that's not a problem for him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). He abandoned me, the kids - his son, his niece and nephew who were living with us at the time, his family, our business, and our "dream home." He hasn't worked since he left. I'm supporting him and OW and paying their rent until the D is final (just waiting to find out how much I need to buy him out of the business).

I tried hard for 1.5 years to save the marriage: counseling with Steve Harley (which H quit), counseling with two other counselors (H quit both times), marriage weekend, plan A, plan B, cruise recommended by Steve H., until I finally gave him an ultimatum not to call me until he decided to get sober and get rid of OW.

He wouldn't do those things but he broke in, trashed my house, and threatened to kill me in front of witnesses, and in violation of a restraining order, and has continued to call, intermittently, either hostile, threatening, or asking, "just to hear your voice...", etc.

I am finally coming out the other side of the affair nightmare. He tells anyone who asks that he's happy, but as far as I can tell, he's still miserable.

tryingtostartover,

Yes- you are right. Even in the midst of the devastation I am a happier person, and, I think, a nicer one. No more worrying about catering to his moods, no more wondering what is going to set him off. Also, my kids and I are doing a lot of activities that we wouldn't have done while he was still home - trips to visit friends and other social activities that he would have refused to participate in. I probably should have been doing those things all along, even if he refused to go.

LetSTry,
You really have been living a nightmare. I'm so glad you have survived it with your sanity intact. When they do stuff like this, don't you just wonder "where was my brain when I married this man?" BTW: he probably is miserable but he will never admit it, especially to anyone who might tell you. In my case, the OW is known to have a very bad temper and her XH says she loves to spend money, especially on herself. MY STBXH has his work cut out for him.

A date? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Good for you! It's hard to imagine that at this point in my life; I wasn't very good at it the last time I had to do it over 20 years ago!