I know about Plan A, but how can I deal with H's escalating anger.
He's now dealing with his issues with a counselor, and the counselor warned me that H will continue to get angrier. After years of supressing feeling, it will come out in full force and directed at the person he feels ruined his life - Me.
How have others dealt with this?
He could've run me over in the car this morning, but my 3 year old was next to me. She's never seen her father so angry.

The counselor is helping us to deal with each other, but after a turn for the better, I'm expecting him to come out fully armed.

I always hate to hear when someone else has to go through this angry by a H.

Well, here are my 2 cents.

I've been counseled to emotionally distance myself from the angry person, so that I can think clearly and rationally and not be baited into a response.

It does supposedly get worse before it gets better because the angry person keeps trying more and more things to elicit a response from you. But once they see that their actions aren't working then they tend to back off.

My ExH is distracted by the OW, and work and daiy life. He has less time now to be angry at me and to actually act on his anger.

I have also been counseled on how to repond to an angry person. When they do or say anything strange/ angry or out of the ordinary, just stay nice but detached.

Easier said than done - I know. But it works.

Also, Just try and stay away from him - like a Plan B because he's just looking for someone to vent things too. So, it's better for your emotional well-being to not see him. HE wants someone to let his emotions out on as as soon as he sees that he can't do that with you anymore then hopefully he'll do it to someone else.

Be sure to protect yourself from him too. K

newly - With the counseling I am going through with First Step, I have the anger wheel which shows the way they talk and handle themselves. The anger is a way of getting to you, to get you to do things their way. It is a way of manipulating you into their pattern. The anger is going to get worse, believe me. One thing to do is walk away when the anger starts, or tell them to leave. Please say nicely, I would like the conversation to stop and talk about the matter you wanted to talk about. Or just ask them to leave, or say I need to take a walk for a half hour. Get away, and come back when you feel you are ready to continue. This is a manipulation pattern, it is their way of controlling things. And as soon as they see you are not going to fall into their game, they will start to back off. Remember, you do not have to take this controlling pattern anymore. If they want to talk in a civilized matter, then welcome the conversation. But otherwise, move on.

This is something I wished I had known earlier. Would of been nice to have this anger wheel in my possession to view and see the pattern that was used on me. My stbx was a good man, a man of trust and love. The person who he is now is a man of deceit, lies (proven yesterday with lawyers, lieing to this day), not caring about anyone but himself. My stbx would not say once yesterday with the lawyers present, that he was angry with me when he called me the f*c*king b*t*h so many times. He said he was upset. I wish everyone going through divorce would be civilized and show respect. Take control, and do not let the anger of your spouse rule you. You do not have to take the anger they will throw at you. See if you can get the anger wheel, on the reverse side is the wheel to show how statements should of been said in a civilized manner.

Newly,

What I have to say here is different than what the others have said..

You said that he's dealing with his surpressed feelings..things he's held inside for years..so for him..these feels are still raw..he's never dealt with them..never admitted he's felt angry, or hurt..never responded in such a way that expressed how he felt..

Now..how you can deal with this..

If it's really something you've said or done that he yells or gets angry about..APOLOGIZE!!! Let him know that you are sorry for whatever it was
you said or did that hurt him..

Example: he was out of work and hadn't been looking for a job and you called him lazy..so he yells at you and says something like--

You said I was lazy..and I'm not lazy..

Honey, I'm sorry I hurt you when I said that you were lazy..It wasn't my intention to hurt you I was just trying to get you motivated to look for a job..and I went about it the wrong way..I'm very sorry..will you forgive me?

This validates his feelings, and allows you to the opportunity to apologize for things you said or did that you may or may not have regretted after they came out..and it can help heal the relationship..

If he gets angry at you for things you didn't do
or say then that is his misplaced anger..directed at you because you are the closest person to him..
and you can then help him by saying, I didn't say that or I didn't do that..then he will have to try and figure out who it is he needs to be angry at..

This will also help him learn to communicate with you better how he feels..to where it won't build up and all come raging out at once..

Just try not to take his anger personally..the feelings are his..and he has a right to feel them..and express them..but it sounds like he's just now learning how to express his feelings of hurt..and like little kids..they get angry and stomp around yelling and hollering..until we teach them this is not how you express your feelings..you talk about it in a calm manner..

And also try to really listen to what he says when he's angry..so that you can figure out if it is you or someone else that he's really angry at..

<small>[ August 10, 2002, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

Thanks for the advice everyone, but what do I do when I need answers to questions?
Such as, where are you taking the girls on vacation, how can I contact them and when will you be back?
As part of his conflict avoidance trait, he still refuses to answer necessary questions. I have a business trip this week and I wrote down a list of questions including, will you care for the girls while I'm away. He never responded.

TR, a good perspective, but I feel like he should apologize to me for his avoidance. An example of your approach below would be:
Ed, I'm sorry I said you didn't spend enough time with the children or take responsibility for them. But TR he didn't. In his mind he was around, but he wasn't. I couldn't even go to the grocery by myself. He claims he was a good father, but he was really never around. If he was on the property, he was tinkering in his garage or working on the yard.
What do I say in this case?

I need all the help I can get, I'm in a downswing of the roller coaster.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Honey, I'm sorry I hurt you when I said that you were lazy..It wasn't my intention to hurt you I was just trying to get you motivated to look for a job..and I went about it the wrong way..I'm very sorry..will you forgive me?

This validates his feelings, and allows you to the opportunity to apologize for things you said or did that you may or may not have regretted after they came out..and it can help heal the relationship.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

newly:
[QB]Thanks for the advice everyone, but what do I do when I need answers to questions?

Ask him..the questions..

Such as, where are you taking the girls on vacation, how can I contact them and when will you be back?

You can phrase it in such a way like "I don't care where your going on vacation but, I really do need to know how to contact you and the kids in case there is an emergency..and I feel that if I were going away with the kids you would deserve the same respect..we really should work together on this to make it easier on the kids..

As part of his conflict avoidance trait, he still refuses to answer necessary questions. I have a business trip this week and I wrote down a list of questions including, will you care for the girls while I'm away. He never responded.

TR- And he may not responde..he may feel this was an LB, and take offence to it..like WHAT YOU DON'T THINK I WILL TAKE CARE OF MY OWN KIDS??? so he probably won't respond because he see's it as an insult..

TR, a good perspective, but I feel like he should apologize to me for his avoidance. An example of your approach below would be:

Ed, I'm sorry I said you didn't spend enough time with the children or take responsibility for them. But TR he didn't.

TR- I understand that YOU FEEL he didn't spend enough time w/ the kids..or act responsibily..but to HIM he did..and right now he's feeling hurt and anger..and to admit these things to you would force him to admit it to himself..which is really what YOU'VE wanted all along..for him to face up to his mistakes..and when we don't face them..it's
because of our own pride..I can't, I won't admit I'm WRONG and she/he is right..to do so would make him see he was wrong..and that would make him look bad..and he'd see he really does need to change..and again you'd be right and he'd be wrong..

In his mind he was around, but he wasn't. I couldn't even go to the grocery by myself. He claims he was a good father, but he was really never around. If he was on the property, he was tinkering in his garage or working on the yard.
What do I say in this case?

TR- Like I said, to him..he was there..he may no have played with the kids they way YOU expected or the way they wanted..but to him thats all he understood of fatherhood..(? what was his father like?? and if you know the answer to that you can maybe understand his thinking about what a 'father' is and does)

My ex felt as long as he sent some money home every week he was being a good father and husband..he was fullfilling his role..financial support..to him That is what men do..provide financial support and thats it..nothing else is required..if you ask anything else of me I will distance myself even more because I don't know how to be who you need me to be..and I don't want to know..the wifes role is everything else..If I want sex your my wife you have sex with me..if the kids want any attention your the mom, the mom is the nurturer so thats your job..here's money for the bill's make sure they are paid..don't tell me about them don't tell me about whats going on with them I have enough to worry about with my job..everything else is trivial you worry about it..

TR - I understand this but it doesn't help.
He still refuses to answer questions or give any information. In communications counseling the C even said "we understand you don't like how she communicates to you, what we need to know is how would you like her to communicate to you?" And his answer was "I Don't know".
So he just doesn't answer questions.
He has refused to give me information about his vacation location. He refused to return phone calls to the girls when I took them to see my family. I've never been away from them for 10 days, and am stressing about this already.
He was a absentee father even though he came home every night. His father is very active with the grandchildren NOW, but I suspect he wasn't with his own children. Before we married, my H held up examples of friends he thought were great fathers - they were. I expected him to emulate them, not spend more time in the garden than with his children. I know I'm still angry about this, and I'm getting better at dealing with it, but his avoidance only bothers me.
Now that we have a weekday schedule, I don't know if he'll take care of the girls. In the past, he implied that even though we were married he wouldn't. So I've had to arrange backup.
It's crazy.
Thanks for listening. Any more suggestions would be great. I've tried talking, writing, voicemail messages, etc., but get no responses. I prefer writing (he has no e-mail) so that I can re-read it and make sure it's non-demanding, but he reads demands into everything I write.

Newly,

he did answer you..he doesn't know..that is an answer..not a very good one..but it is an answer..

He doesn't know how to communicate..he's never had to communicate..so he doesn't know what to expect..and it sounds like he's not sure what it is he's looking for..

Okay, now..how does his boss talk to him to get him to understand what he needs done??

Maybe it's in how you word the questions?

or maybe the tone of voice or body language??

If he read's your body language different than how you mean it..that could be the problem..

Or if the tone of your voice causes him feel like a child..something said in a way his parents talked to him maybe??

Just some things to consider..

And I posted a reply on my thread..to you

Maybe it's in how you word the questions?
TR - Thanks. These are the things we're working on with the communication MC. It seems there is no way I can do it that is acceptable. I thought writing it down would take out emotion, eliminate body language issues and I check the wording. But nothing works. In one case, he told the MC how offensive my letter was and stated his interpretation of each question. Then I read it aloud to the MC. I read "would, can, etc." I really worked on it, but he's interpreting things differently.
And now he's stalling on the parenting plan, won't move things forward, and is threatening to cancel court required mediation (next week). And I want mediation to get past these issues. Yikes.
I know what you're saying, but it doesn't make it any easier to deal with this person. The worst part is realizing now that when we had discussions in the past, he just felt like he was giving in to me, when I thought we were each compromising. I've been walking on eggshells for too long. I just ordered some new Codependency tapes today. I have alot of work to do.

Newly,

How old are your kids?

Do you talk to your h differently than you do your kids? or do you talk to him the way you would another adult?

A good thing for you is that your h is in counseling..and working through his own issues..
most of us don't get that..

You say he's in the anger stage..this is a good place for him to be..because as he works through this..he'll learn that his anger issues are his own..they are his feelings..not yours..and he has to be able to express his feelings..I know something that helped me..during my own healing for learning to better express how I felt..was to
make a list of different feelings..examples

Frustration
Anger
hurt
powerlessness
sad
happy
peace

and then look up the definition of each one..then
when I started to feel something I wasn't familiar with, I used to be numb to my feelings because I pushed them down and wouldn't allow myself to feel anything for so many years..I know now that I did that..I didn't realize I did that until a friend of mine asked me one day on a scale of one to ten how do you feel..or do you top the charts and feel nothing? and I'd really never thought about it..so I started thinking..
and began asking myself what I know about these feelings..what do they feel like?? I knew sad..
I knew depressed, but I never felt real hurt, or joy, or happiness, or love, I knew I would get upset about things..but didn't understand it was
actually frustration and not anger..and I realized
I had pushed my feelings down for so long I didn't know what to feel so I felt nothing..which
is why I felt dead inside..which is also how I ended up in my EA..I started feeling things..I felt happiness, I felt hurt, I felt sad, I felt joy, I felt things I'd NEVER felt before..and it scared me..and I ended the relationship..partly because of fear..but mostly because I wanted to feel those things within my marriage, I wanted that type of relationship with my husband..I found out I liked feeling things and wanted to share that with him, I was like a child in a candy story wanting to feel everything and I have..now, I don't want to feel everything anymore but I know that even if I do feel things I don't want to feel..I'll be okay..

And if you guys keep pushing aside your feelings you'll never be truly alive..and a part of you will die inside..so his feeling anger and resentment is really a good place for him to be..
because he will realize that hey..I can feel something, I really am alive..and I can feel!!

My counseling started with Anger Management - because he said I was the angry one. So again, you've said everything the counselor's have said, but it still hurts to see him act this way.
I don't think we could ever reconcile, too much respect is lost.
You asked about his boss, he owns his own company. And just like the house, he only does things when he wants to do them, not to anyone else's schedule. Now I can see all of that, but didn't before.

Have a good night. I'm signing off.

hmmm..everything the counselor has said?? I hope I've missed some things..if not then I need to figure out why I need to finish my education..LOL

And I still have a few years left to go through..
I've only had Psy. 101 but then..I have had the YEARS of life experience in living and learning through it all..some w/ out counseling and some with..so I guess I may know as much as some..and maybe even more than others..

I know my last counselor was talking to me about things she struggles with that I have grown past
and areas I have healed in that she has not..
I give God the praise on that one..as He healed areas of my heart that no amount of counseling could ever heal.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and gave me the voice I was never allowed to use as a child..and I want to be able to help others find their own voice..so they can speak up for themselves..

I know it's hard to see this man angry..but
see if you can look at that way..He's getting a voice..one in which he is just learning how to use
to express his feelings..he's always been able to express what he wants..I WANT TO DO THIS..I WANT IT THIS WAY..But now he's going to learn how to
express WHY he wants things this way and that way..and not just say because I DO..I DON'T KNOW..

Why doesn't he want to tell you where he is going and how to reach him..because YOUR NOT MY MOM!!!
AND I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT'S WHY!!
I'M AN ADULT!!! I DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANYONE!!!

Sound familiar??? Think of a teenager trying to grow up..trying to be an adult..it sounds like he's still emotionally a kid and wanting to be an adult..and by your asking him questions..He views you as his mom and NOT his wife..ACK!!

You want and need a partner..not another child..
and he's struggling through this...just as teenagers do..and who knows maybe when he is past this stage he will want to be your partner..

But the question is..do you think you would want him then after all the hurt and pain??

TR
You really need to get your degree and benefit from your knowledge. You state things so succinctly. (have you read "Emotional Intelligence" great book and you have it.)
I see now that you are correct in that he is just now finding his "voice". As much as I read and think I understand things, having someone put it in these terms really helps me understand it better.

I still don't know where he's going on vacation, but I hope to find out soon.

Thanks alot.