My wife of 10 years had decided to leave me two weeks ago with out any prior notice. I walked into my home and she was gone with her stuff. I have been struggling with this ever since. Yes we were having problems like every one else. I've always wanted to work them out, to go to counseling and deal with them, but my wife never wanted. I have felt for the longest time that I am trying to safe the ship on my own with no support from her.
I can't belive how some one can leave a marriage and her kid (5 years old) just like that with out any willingness to work it out, or give it one last chance. I am very hurt and feel confused. I need my strength to be able to take care of my son and to keep on going, but every night I feel so down and depressed. I want to move on but I feel it is not going to be easy. I just need an advise. Thanks.

aha,

Sorry you are going through this. Do you know if there is an affair going on? Has your wife even tried to make any contact with your son?

I can not understand people like that. I have tried to but never could. When I left my ex we discussed it for a few months and the reason why. There were no surprises.

Again I am so sorry.

Two words: desertion, abandonment.

Very powerful words in divorce for getting rights to your property/residence, and legal custody of your child.

In divorce, whoever has the most money wins. One of the first things a DV lawyer will tell you is to find out what your wife is up to and proceed to hit her with legal papers.

I do not know what my wife is up to. She is dancing around this question.
I am being told by her mother (who does not agree with her actions by the way) to give her some space for now to come to peace with herself and may be realize what is she doing. Sound easy but waiting is tough.
I am willing to do so but at some point I will have to decide if enough is enough.
Also believe that my wife did not handle the situation properly. She could have talked it over with me. We should give counselling a chance. We should try every thing to proof to ourselves that we did every thing before we get to this point.
Leaving a marriage (of 10 years) should not be an easy decision like my wife made it look like. I know for a fact, I would have never done this to her or to my kids. I would have done every thing to preserve her degnity and respect, and to provide my son with the best life anyone can offer (that's living in house with both mom and dad). No matter what anyone says, no one can raise your own like yourself.

aha,

I have read all of your old posts - and it seems that there are only a few since April.

Your wife has some big trauma in her past which affects all that she does - and certainly affects her relationship with you.

Friend, this is a long process. I believe that it can work out - especially if she is not having an affair. Even if she is, it can work out. As painful as it is, you should find out about if she is having an affair - if only to understand her situation better. It may only be an emotional affair - perhaps with somebody at work or somebody she corresponds with by email or chat.

Be patient, think as if you are running a marathon. Pace yourself.

I think you have recieved good advice - from your mother-in-law and from others here. Give her some space. Don't chase after her. She will almost certainly call you. If you have been married 10 years she is used to you - used to talking to you. If you don't call or pursue her, she will call you or come to see you.

Tell us: Where is your child? Did your wife take the child with her? If so, does she give you opportunity to visit with your child?

I believe that you deeply love her and want to make her happy. Sometimes it is just hard to do. Your wife doesn't understand you - not because of your cultural differences really - but I think because of something within her. I am not critisizing either of you. It is not her fault.

Just being from different families is enough really. Each family does things differently - and if you expect something to be done one way - have always believed that it is the right way - the only way, it may be hard to accept some different way. But, after 10 years, I would think that you would understand each other a little.

I think your wife has trouble trusting people. Please read Trust after Trauma. It may apply in your case.

Please be patient. Believe that it is possible to restore your marriage. Keep working on the "plan A".

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Thanks AD,

You are making alot of sense to me. I enjoyed reading your advise.

My son spends most of the week with me and weekends with her. She knows how much I love him and care for him, and how much he loves me. She has no intentions in hurting me in that aspect but who knows, we can only hope.

I am going to keep away and be patient as hard as it may sound. But in the interset of working it out I will be willing to do what ever it takes.

AD, do you think my in-laws should do something meanwhile to assist my wife during this period? i.e, advising her to go to counselling or seeing a doctor?

Please let me know.

Also, keep writing me, I think this is the kind of advise I need at this time to help keep me going.

Once again thanks AD.

I look forward to your next reply.

aha

aha,

Sorry I took so long to get back to your thread.

Just a couple of days ago I had decided that I was through with MB forum - and now, I guess I'm back again.

I was thinking about your situation a little more but I forgot to come and post.

When your W took the extra job, I'm guessing that she was already preparing to move out. Maybe even back in March when you hit her. Maybe she was thinking "Ok, this is how it started with my first H. I've got to get out now." You didn't pick up on that. What this mean is that you have been really out of touch with her. I'm just guessing here since I don't know either of you and you haven't really given enough info for me to say that - but I think it is true. When a H or W suddenly moves out without warning, you can be sure you have been not tuned into their feelings, thoughts, fears, hopes, ambitions, etc.

There was and is this huge gap between you.

Maybe she has been giving you signals that you have been ignoring - just blissfully charging forward assuming that everything will be alright. Or, maybe you've seen the signals, but just couldn't figure out what to do about it.

Sorry, I didn't notice that in your first post you indicated that she left your son with you. Thanks for making the arrangments clear.

At least there doesn't seem to be any chance that you will be completely out of contact because you have contact with her over childcare issues. That's good, I think.

aha,

You need to try to get as clear an understanding as possible of your W's reality. What is her schedule? You said she is working two jobs. She's got to be really tired sometimes. What can you do for her to help relieve her?

You still need to find out if there is another man involved.

Did she send email alot? Does she work at a computer in one or both of her jobs? A lot of these affairs start with chat/email on the internet.

Since she has your son on the weekends, she would not be able to meet another man during those times - since your son is certainly old enough to tell you about it.

If there is another man, and unless you are totally unbearable, that seems likely - he may also be somebody from work. Did she talk about anybody from work - especially somebody she used to talk about a lot but stopped talking about?

There is a list around here somewhere about "signs of an affair" - probably you can find something on the "DivorseBusting" web site if not here.

I'm sorry that my post is not organized....

You wrote that your W was married briefly (and badly) at 17. I suspect that she would have had some big problems with her parents. Now you are asked if I think her parents/family could help her. What is the status of her relationship with her parents? Did she leave home at a very young age? What happened with that early marriage?

I think she really needs to be touched - feels that need intensely - but it makes her feel dependent when she allows you to fill that need. So, she tells herself that she needs to be strong and not allow herself to be dependent on you.

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD,

Thanks again for taking the time to reply to my previuos post.

Actually, I began to fear that my wife is upto something but her swinging mode was very decieving to me.

In fact, I would have expect her to leave right after the incident, not 6 mo. later during which I made huge progress in improving alot of my personal issues that annoyed my W. She also made some remarkable improvements. However, my wife was never affectionate from day one. I think she never dealt with her prior abuse correctley, nor that her parents helped her in that aspect.

I am nort an abussive person, I just reacted the wrong way due to my wife's aggression towards me. NOt to mention the fact that she hit me twice before and I never responded. That night I felt that enough is enough and enfortunately I responded (one time only). Right or wrong it happened.

I still can't believe how my wife would try to justify in her mind that I am that kind of a person when she knows that she has been insulting me over and over again verbally and physically.

I had tried my best to show her love, compassionate, caring, you name it. But always ran into a wall, or a dead end.

My wife does not know what she wants, plain and simple. You can give her the world and still won't be enough to make her happy.

I think my wife's problem (and I did mention that to her and to her family) that she hold grudges, she never forgive or forget, she always harbos on the past, and she always points fingers when things go wrong.

I believe after all of these years, the load became so heavy on her chest and she could not deal with it.

I advised her to seek professional help long tine ago, but no desire was there on her part. I kept on working on myself for a very long time. Put it this way, I have almost changes 180 degrees from where I was when we first met.

AD,

I am at a point where I do not even know what is right or wrong any more. One thing I know for sure, It is in my wife's court now and she has to decide if this marriage means any thing to her. It certainly means alot to me than to walk out on someone just like that.

Tha's all I have for now. I look forward to your reply soon.

Thanks.

AHA

aha,

Patience will certainly be required.

I think there is a strong correlation between experiencing trauma and subsequent ability to trust others. I don't know if the book I previously cited would help you. From my mememory it was more targeted at the person who experienced the trauma rather than those around him/her.

Again, I recommend that you give her space. She may feel cornered when you pursue her. When she can control her interactions with you she will feel safer. Maybe it is not fair - to always do everything on her terms, but for now, it may be all you can do.

I think know what you mean about not knowing what is right or wrong.

aha,

Could you fill in some details about your W's teen years? What happened before and leading up to her marriage at 17 to the abusive guy? Was she abused by either parent before that? Did she have major conflicts with her parents? Was her home-life a mess?

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Hello AD,

As far as my wife's past. She grew up to independent at early age. Her Father went to prison more than once (today he is the nicest guy you can meet). This in turn made her as the oldest in charge of helping her mom with her younger brother and sister, and to take care of her own needs. She started to work at age 13, and she has been ever since (I convinced her few times to stay home and enjoy herself, but that only lasted for few months).
I have always recognized the fact that my wife is a very strong independant person. Never though I planned on taking advantage of that. I always wanted to do nice things for her, make her feel wanted, respected, appreciated. But felt that no matter how hard I try, my wife would always raise the Par highr. I have to admit that at times I felt frustrated, but finally I gave up on my needs. Thats how much I love her. Still she never made me feel appreciated.
She is disappointed at me for hitting her back, but she is not willing to accept the fact that she has the problem of hitting. She has always put me down in front of her family, verbally disrespected me, so I feel that I should be the one who's angrey and disappointed. But I've always put my love and respect ahead of myself. I felt the marriage means something worth trying for.
My wife is a hard headed person, she is hard to convince or pursuade. As a result, I did get to a point where I gave up on even trying to talk her into doing something. I got tired of arguing or hearing her sensless remarks.
That's why I feel hurt right now that after all of this, she turned her back on me and walked out on me like I am no body. How could any one have the heart to do so. I know I would have never done that to her.

AD, you can since how diappointed and hurt I am. I can't help it. I am rying hard to bear with it and be patient. I still have some hope. But I do not know for how long I'ld be willing to wait.

AHA

aha,

What did your W's dad go to prison for?

It sounds like she may harbor some anger toward him - which she has been redirecting onto you. It's just a wild guess. What does she think about her Dad now?

-AD

<small>[ September 09, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Good morning AD,

Her Dad went to jail for drug related charges in the 80's. Since he got out he has been doing fine. working a good job, became a better person. My wife does though have some resentments towards him, but all and all, she still respects him. However, he is in total disagreement with what she is doing.

I think my wife had alot of bad experiences with men (and what happened between us just amplified it even more in her mind).

AD,

do you think it worth taking her mom with me to the counselor I am seeing at Church and have her listen to any advice he can give her on how to help my wife. Just a thought on my part.

Another thing AD, my feelings towards my wife are starting to get nump. Did you experience any of this?

Last night my 5 years old told me that his mom mentioned to him that she will never live with us anymore. He was quite confused and hurt. This just makes me upset, but I still refuse to bring myself down to my W level.

I'll wait for your reply.

AHA

Good Morning to you too, Aha.

I'm sorry about the effects on your child. That is really painful. I suggest that you explain to him that his Mama is confused and hurt right now and might say things that she doesn't really mean. - and that you and he just have to love her and be patient with her. He might be afraid that if Mommy can leave, Daddy can too. Reafirm to him that you will always be his Daddy and Mommy will always be his Mommy even if both of you are not with him at the same time. You might want to look for a family counselor who can help you help your son adjust to the situation.

You know, your W was given too much responsibility when she was young - as you said to take care of her younger siblings. Maybe she just feels burned out.

Aha, you really need to try to get inside her head and understand what she is thinking - what is going on with her - what her fears, hopes and motivations are. I sense that you are out of tune with her. When she speaks, listen carefully.

I really don't think that taking your MIL to the counseling session is a good idea. This is between your W and yourself. Don't try to use her Mom to manipulate her. She needs to have a good relationship with her parents if possible and that should not be dependent (in my opinion) on having a good relationship with you. They will, I hope, still love her and care about her even if they don't approve of what she is doing.

If you and your MIL go together your W is likely to feel that you are ganging up on her. This likely to cause her to resent both of you and further withdraw from you.

What does your pastor think about this idea?
Do your in-laws go to the same church?
Does your W go to church? Is her faith important to her?

Your W's Mom might independently seek counsel on how to relate to her daughter in this time. That wouldn't do any harm, I suppose.

I understand what you mean about feeling numb. For me, I find it helps if I can remember that my W is confused and suffering and that I really want her to be happy. It makes it easier to not take it personally. I think that no matter who your W had married, she would have had some issues from her past to deal with - and would have had some problems.

Still, aha, you should pay attention to the materials on this site. First, avoid doing anything which you know will hurt your W - and especially anything you might do on purpose. Think carefully about your motivations for things that you do - and act out of love with tender consideration for her even when she is hurting you. In MB language, this is called "avoiding Love Busters" (LB's). Read the sections on LoveBusters carefully. You might even get the book Love Busters.

That is the beginning point. I know you have been trying, but probably some of the things you have been doing have hurt your W and you may not even realize it. Pay close attention to how you talk to her, listen to her, talk about her to others. The "Love Busters" that Harley lists are not the only ones - just the most common ones. For your W, there may be other sensitive points.

Pray for her - and for your Son. Pray with him at bedtime and always ask that "God bless mommy".

Aha,

Have you given any thought to finding out if there is another man? A lot of people have said that they were sure there was nobody else, and were wrong. Check it out - but do it in a way which is least likely to hurt your W. I'm sorry to say that this is by far the most common case. You may not want to face that possibilty, but you really need to find out. It will help you understand your W's thinking.

Have you read "Love must be Tough", by Dobson? It is targeted at affair situations, but it says some very sensible things that are applicable to a withdrawn spouse in general.

Keep being pleasant to her when you see her or speak with her. Avoid LB's. Meet any needs she will allow you to meet. Take care of yourself and your son. Don't beg, plead or chase after her. Try to keep things going well on your job. In general, try to be the best man you can be.

Oh, and remember, my life is messed up too. I'm not an expert. My advice may be wrong. I'm glad you are speaking with your pastor, but you might also want to consult with a Christian marriage counselor if you can afford it. To be honest, I have not talked with the Harleys but many who have say that it is helpful.

May God bless your efforts,

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD,

It is possible that I was out of touch with my wife. But when I think about it, I feel that my wife had never given me the chance to get closer to her, to read her mind, or to help understand the things that are bothering her.

I tried talking but did not work. I tried asking her to write down the issues that are of concern to her but she laughed at me and told me that this isn't a school.

I have to admit that my background has alot to do with my lack of understanding of how to handle females.

I grew up where male and female are always segregated. No dating was allowed. And marriages are only arranged. I grew up being treated as a second class citized due to the fact that I did not hold the same natinoanlity of the country were I grew up. I dealt with ignorant people that treated me with total disrespect. I always worked hard to get by and to earn my place..but still even that was not enough sometimes.
I had developed a sense of patience and tollerance. But also, I was never a player (when it comes to women).
Believe it or not, my wife was my only date (for two years). She is my only women. So when I say I love her, I really mean it. She is my life.

I'ld love to get into her head, but how? I was able to do that when we were living togather, how can I do it now when she is not around?

I have always felt that I am just a man in my wife's life, and she was my only women.

I did check into the second man possibility, I do not think such thing exists as of now.

I became a believer over a year ago. My wife was praying for that to happen for a very long time. In January, the church asked me to share my testimony with others during the service. My wife encouraged me to do so. But then, I noticed that she did not like the fact that people started to approach em and wanting to talk to me and invite me. It was just for few weeks. And you know how people are. Today no one bother me any more (which is good). But I felt some jealocy from my wife towards me. Something I could not understand. Then, she stopped going to church at all since our incident in March.

I found out this week that she is going to start taking sundays off again and start to go back to church.

AD, I love my wife, I never hurt her or disrespect her, actually she has been the one who's lashing at me and rasing her voice at me. It hurts to be patient and take this kind of treatement from my own wife. I hate to say it, but at times she treated me worst than the way as was treated back home. Sad...

What can I do to get to her head and to try to work things out slowley.

God hate divorce. But what can I do if my wife does not want to live with me, forgive me, or try to give our relatioship a chance.?

Let me what you think AD..

AHA

Aha,

I'm sorry if I offended you by saying that you were out of touch with your W's thoughts. I did not mean any offense. I know it is difficult.

Aha, please do not be offended by any of my questions or comments. If I say that maybe you could do something better toward your W - it is only because we are all imperfect people and we can always learn. If I ask something personal, it is only so I can better understand you and your wife.

I'm glad that you became a believer - and that your W is making arrangments to be able to attend church again. It is strange that your W does not show some joy at your belief. Do you think that she considered you to be her "project" or her "mission" and when the mission was accomplished she lost interest?

I have so many questions. Please forgive me.

How did you meet each other?

How did you overcome the inner restraints your culture put on you?

What did you see in her in the early days?

Did she always treat you with distain, or was she gentle and loving toward you?

What things has she complained about over the years? How did you respond to her complaints?

Do you know how your W was treated by her mother when she was growing up? Did her mother speak harshly to her - yell at her etc.? Did her father do so when he was around?

Write again soon,

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD,

I was not offended at all. so please do not feel this way. I can't explain to you how much I am enjoying writing to you and sharing this with you. I am getting alot out of my chest.

I met my wife at a coffee shop. It was prearranged by a mutual friend. We dated for two years. I thought she was very shy and honest. I liked her independent. I felt for the first time that someone did care for who I am.

I noticed that she was uncomfortable about me showing her love in public. I did not think much of it. She told me she will try to losen up as we grew (never happened, not even a single attempt on her part to deliver on this).
My wife started to get disrespectful just in the last 2-3 years.
She complained about many things through out our marriage:
1. My communication skills with her. She thought I was keeping my thoughts to myself. So I started to do better, to share with her the things that bothered me. Soon enough she complained that I was giving her too much info. and may be I should try to deal with issues on my own.
2. I was not helping around the house. Guess what, I learned to do any thing and every thing I can. And then, she complained I was not doing some things the right way, and I should stop doing others (i.e., laundry) because she things it is her job not mine.
3. She said I get angry so quick. Not true, but I tried hard to not be excited or angre at all so that she does not complain. What's funny is, she gets angry all the time. She raises her voice, she screams, she refuses to hear me, and she walks away when its my turn to present my side.
4. She thinks I am extra loving and extra gentle. She does not like for me to call her honey, to hug her, to kiss her, or touch her (at home when we are alone).

AD,

You see what I mean. I had so much patient it is not even funny. Her own brother told me that I put up with things other men will not.

As far as overcoming my cultural retraints. The truth is by being reasonable, honest with myself, admitting when I amwrong, accepting to change for the better, and learning to adapt to cultural changes. And when I became a believer, god just open my eyes to many things that were wrong about me so I began to improve myself even further. Yet my wife respected me when I was bad than when I became better (if you know what I mean).

Write soon

<small>[ September 10, 2002, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: aha ]</small>

If you can find a copy of Bruce Fisher's Rebuilding: When Your Relationship Ends, aha, take a look at the "Transition" chapter.

Your wife's history and behavior appears to match a classic pattern. Unfortunately, if I am right, there is probably very little that you can do to help her. She needs help, but no one can force her to get it.

Sometimes all you can do is pray. And wait.

Been there. Done that. Still doing it.

Thanks AD.

I hope you'll stay in touch.

AHA

Aha,

Welcome GnomeDePlume to this discussion. He is one of my favorite MBers.

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

aha,

I'm trying to think of anything helpful to say.

You say that your W complained that you became angry too quickly - and that in fact, you found that she is often angry and disrespectful to you.

I believe you - that your W is often angry and expresses her anger inappropriately.

Even though your W is more often angry than you are, you should listen to her complaints about that. Because of her previous experience of abuse, she may be very sensitive to any anger - however mildly expressed. If you fear something, then you are on the lookout for signs. Your W was much younger when she experienced violence in her first marriage. I think when it happens at a younger age, it is more likely to create a lasting fear. So, when you are angry, she becomes afraid that you will be violent like her first H was.

aha, You wrote that things became different 3 or 4 years ago. What was happening then? When your son was born, did your W stay home from work for some time? Did she begin to treat you differently when she returned to work after your child was born?

How do you handle your W's visits with your son?
Have you talked to a lawyer? If your W persists in staying away - leaving your son with you, then I think you might have a good chance at custody in the event of a divorce.

-AD

<small>[ March 24, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>