<BR>my marraige has had many problems---but we are on a pretty even keel now. Nothing special, no real connecting, but civil and friendly. According to him, he's pretty happy.<BR>An ongoing dilemma for me is sex. (I am a wife that actually likes it, he could go 6 weeks---and we usually go a least 4) We 'got together' the other evening, but his kisses are irritating to me. (you know that Bogey and Bacall line---It would be even better if you'd help). That's what I fel like. We have discussed it before (and now I wish we hadn't--I'm sure it made it worse)<BR>WHAT DO I DO?? He is not into how to books, I have terribly offended him with my Harley books and my John Grey books. And I have shown him what I like, he just never seems to remember, or will say--I can't kiss you if I feel like I'm being judged. So obviously I have really messed the whole situation up myself.<BR>Thanks---I hope someone has ben thru this

Dear StillWanna<BR>Look under the Emotional Needs section. There is quite a bit of discussion about this. Also read divorcebusting by Michele <BR>Weiner-Davis. She has a website divorcebusting.com and had the first chapter available there.<BR>Isn't it just amazing how one party in a marriage can take umbrage at an effort to improve things. That is where I am. It doesn't seem she wants to try very hard, but I am really tripped up by her apparent reluctance to forgive me re past problems. Here I am just getting older and she stays withdrawn. Sex is there, though relatively rare, and rather non enthusiastic on her part.<BR>Good luck<BR>R

Yes, I live with the same thing. H is very reluctant to do anything to make things better. Heavy or casual discussions, EN questionnaire and followup, any light conversation about our situation and it always makes it worse. He will start to read a good book I may recommend, but he never finishes it. He is so defensive or self-conscious that it does not help to build a better relationship or sex life if I verbalize in a direct way. I have hope for an extended period of Plan A, although there is no affair. Have you done that for any length of time? What happened then?<p>[This message has been edited by Moe (edited August 20, 2000).]

thanks for the replies. I guess I've thought of Plan A for affairs. So I didn't pay much attention to it. I will go back to that. I imagine if it has anything to do with making a policy with my H that it is out. I can't bring up the idea of "working" on our relationship. He does not think a relationship is something you have to work at. And I have learned my lesson in the past. I need to read the Divorce Busting book.<BR>Roger, It sounds like we are both trying by ourselves. But also my H wants this marraige to work (probably more than I do now) I am confused that he won't work on something he wants to keep.<BR>Moe---Yes, the defensive and self consctious thing is major problem here. Of course, I did alot of that damage before I realized the difference between how men and women communicate.

Dear Istillwannatry:<BR>I had been in the very exact situation you were in and boy did it take me a long time to get back to "ourselves". My problem was with my husband (awhile ago) in which it involved something in the sex department. Anyway, I questioned him and focused on it so much that he could not perform. He told me that it was like I was watching him/judging him. Everytime we got into bed, the "spotlight" was on his performance (because I guess I made it that way). Boy, what a mistake that was. I never (since then) have ever brought up anything that I wished to share that I thought he would do. Instead, I never again mentioned anything about his performance and eventually we got back on track. It took along time (months). So, since then, anytime that I wanted something, I would just go ahead and try it. I understand about the kissing and what you are saying. But, you can't change someone who just isn't doing it and cannot change someone when you can't talk to them without them thinking you are judging them. I remember asking my husband to kiss me passionately. He didn't udnerstand that and again, he started to withdraw because he felt I was judging him. How frustrating! Just don't put focus on the problem. It's ashame that he won't read books. But, I guess to him, there is nothing to improve? The reason he probably won't work on the marriage by reading or going somewhere is because again, it puts focus on the problem. To him, he would rather just "let it happen naturally". What he dosn't understand is that, you have a need or needs and it can't just happen naturally if he's not giving you what you need. Try telling him what you need by NOT communicating verbally, but by action. Maybe he'll mimick what you are doing. Or, if he even comes close to something that you like he is doing, praise him immensely. This is how I finally got out of my situation. It took awhile, but, I kept praising him, even if I really didn't fully enjoy it. I wanted the "spotlight" disaster over with and wanted to move on. It worked. Good luck.

Dear Katya--<BR>Thank goodness someone else has been there!! Thanks for your encouragement. You were able to resolve your mistake with time and praise?? I will work on the praise more---and just ignore my aversion to the kisses. (yet he is very happy if I make each kiss passionate--he just doesn't help at all).<BR>Also I think I have to be careful about overdoing it. I have tried to say THANKS and he doesn't like that cause he says that it makes him feel as tho he never does anything right. (boy---- we thought women were sensitive) also I have vocalized my pleasure during sex only to be shhhh-ushed for being too loud. So I will work on honing my communication skills. Thanks for replying---it helps to know that someone else has been here and gotten past it.

Just to add my two cents here...I had a bad self-image and reacted negatively at times to my wife's advances. I was over weight and didn't feel romantic like she needed me to be.<BR>I had rejected the advances and she was justified in feeling it was her I was rejecting. Lately, though, I have realized I it was me I was rejecting.<BR>Can't say if this will help but ovserve his actions, not just his words.<P>rrunrr

runnr<BR>I think you are correct about this. My H has always needed to lose a few here and there (after marraige) and it has really affected him. It ABSOLUTLY never made me not want him. But his self image was very low.....now that I am also heavy it has really added another dimension to this problem.<BR>But maybe you can help me understand something......back when I was in top shape and would wear lingerie, I would get no positive comments. Not even a I wanna rip it off of you (which would be unromantic, but at least it would have been something) He didn't say I looked cheap or trashy, he just wouldn't say ANYTHING. Since me in lingerie is not even a possibility now, I have asked why he wouldn't acknowledge it back then, all he says is that he was stupid. WHAT'S THAT MEAN???

This sounds like crazy advice, but your problem does not sound like the kind two people can "work" on together. Your H. needs to get back his attraction to you and feel compelled to chase you again. <P>You might try being more unavailable to him--do your own thing, be happy, take up yoga or go to an exercise class in a sexy outfit or get dressed up and go out to dinner with old girlfriends and come home smiling at the world. Don't call him anymore; don't chit-chat when he's at work even if he calls you. Be busy with your own life but totally warm during the time you have together. <P>Compliment him on everything he does right; appreciate the things he does for you; make him feel admired and "manly." <P>You know, bascially act like you did when you were dating! I bet he will be chasing you around the house, tyring to pin you down for time together, making advances, in no time flat!

Masked--<BR>Thanks for the reply.<BR>Actually, that used to be a concern, but not anymore. (we had very small children and i had no other life and no money to go out and do anything)<BR>But now I have a life and am very happy and I NEVER call him unless I need his help immediately. He doesn't call me during the day except for emergencies. <BR>I do try to give the compliments. I mess it up sometimes and he says to not tell him thanks when he does something nice because it makes him feel like that was the only time he ever did anything right. So I am trying to find middle ground on teh compliments.<BR>I am trying to make him feel more manly and admired. Can you give me specifics?? I don't want to screw this up too.<BR>I am losing weight. (a LB he is doing here is---instead of saying I look nice or good etc---he says flatly--you're losing weight. I know it is meant to be a compliment, but it is SO focused on my weight

A suggestions for the people with "problem kissing" - tell your husband to that you want to kiss him. You (wife) are the one doing the kissing and he is the one being kissed. That way you can show him how you want to be kissed without him "getting in the way".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by istillwannatry:<BR>Since me in lingerie is not even a possibility now, I have asked why he wouldn't acknowledge it back then, all he says is that he was stupid. WHAT'S THAT MEAN???[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Maybe what he means is, that he was stupid to never say anything, because maybe if he said "wow you look great", then you would have worked to stay in good shape. ?? Am I getting warm here?<P>

if communication is a problem because your honey may take things the wrong way, try non-verbal communication. When he hits on something that works for you purr, moan, smile...you get the idea! We all feel wonderful when we know we are pleasing our honeys and I bet yours is no exception. <P>If you are trying to communicate, just tell him specifically...that feels so good when you....! I love it when you do .... to me!!<BR>We are all much more responsive to that.

hey---since I last posted we "got together" and he was very happy (I initiated and gave him many example kisses). Still his technique is lacking. I've considered the idea that maybe i WANT to be in control. But I don't think so. Because he will perform oral sex, and does a fine job (and yes I let him know that). I wonder what my hang up about his kisses are.<BR>And you may be right about the comments about the lingerie.

Hi,<BR>sorry for not responding before this. Anniversary #15 was yesterday and had been preparing myself for who-knows-what kind of response from her. (none was received, but she MAY have, incorrectly, assumed I would make some attempt to call and acknowledge it.)<P>I, too, was stupid of NOT taking advantage of the sexy nightshirts. I think that may have been due to us being newly weds and being too concerned about staking out our territories.<P>There are other "if only I hads" out there for me. If only I could get a second chance.<P>rrunrr<BR>

runnr<BR>Sorry about the anniversary apart. I'm thankful I haven't had that to deal with.<P>Staking out territory--that must be a guy thing cause I don't understand it. If you want to explain, I'd love to understand it.<P>Best wishes

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rrunrr:<BR><B><P>There are other "if only I hads" out there for me. If only I could get a second chance.<P>rrunrr</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There are too many shoulda, coulda, woulda situations out there (if onlys)...there is nothing you can do once the moment is gone. Start today and do what you need to do...that is my game plan!

Sorry for still yet another late response.<BR> <BR>Staking out territory was the analogy presented from a sister. Early in a relationship/marriage we may want to "protect" ourself by not letting someone within our space, to keep our individuality. As time goes on, in her experience, the "space" shrinks and you find how much time was wasted with the fighting for that territory. <BR>She lost her husband a few years ago at age fifty and has reflected about the "if only's" as they were beginning to rebuild and strengthen their own marriage.<BR>rrunrr<BR>

I am trying to figure out how to edit properly--continued below--sorry<P><p>[This message has been edited by roger (edited September 22, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roger:<BR><B>I am trying to figure out why so many of us are suffering with a spouse who is in a holding pattern and apparently cannot "get back" with us with enthusiasm, or at least with enthusiasm to really try hard on a variety of issues. <P>Then it occurrred to me that a very large group has given up (divorced). <P>Another large group think they are over their problems, but haven't gone deep enough to solve the resentment that at least one in those marriages is carrying (this may why therapists think they have to dig deeply, and most go way too far, tearing things up, with no real plan for building). <P>My W had invisible resentment from almost the beginning (marriage of 28 yrs) and after four months of useless, worthless therapy in 99 (I refer to it as the OGREFICATION OF ROGER--nothing positive could be said about me, my efforts, or my intentions) and only when I stopped going and found Harley and gave her the questionnaire, did I see how deeply negative she had become toward me. Now she says that she was sleeping with me out of "guilt sex" so I now understand that this just added about another year to the resentment!<P>Anyway, it is my guess that most of you (third group) are suffering the long term aspects of resentment and I am starting to believe in the value of the spiritual dimension of forgiveness. (We are the ones who are struggling and working on VERY HARD THINGS!)<P>In her incredibly understated way, she did say about a week ago that she accepted my apologies for not being aware of her needs, and there was some vision of forgiveness. (Mind you, I cannot ask for a repeat or clarification, because that would be too much pressure!)<BR> <BR>So we are suffering through some deep, heretofore unresolved resentments. It will take awhile, but I hope not too long, and I cannot appear too eager for resolution.<P>Could it be that there are many intact marriages out there that look good but that are building unresolved and undiscussed resentments? There is so much about living together that can build resentments. All those jokes about how men control the remote, won't ask for directions, and how women just want to spend money just drive a wedge and prevent wholesome understandings.<P>So, maybe if all of us would just lighten up about our needs and anxieties, rejoice in the fact that our spouse is working with us at all, not fret about how less than excellent things are, find a high ratio of gentle compliments for our spouse (never overdone or too obvious), and ease in most gently into the clear statement (always a low voice, always in the kindest tone) of our preferences (never even looking like a criticism), and find the right combination of speech and distance (don't talk about the relationship too much or too little, and don't be too close or too distant physically). <P>Just writing this down shows me how hard it is. I have been doing this all, and it is working. The "soft start" of all potentially difficult marital discussions is from John Gottman. He has researched this stuff and this technique is wonderful. ( I found him under smartmarriages.com I have mentioned it to the W and also his ratio of positives (say 10 really good things before even one that might be considered negative or a criticism). As a man, I thought that I was doing good things in the kitchen, but have learned in some ways that it is "her territory" and now I just stay at a bit of a distance and ask her to let me know when the dishes need to be washed. <P>The "unfairness" that I see in our marriage no longer bothers me, as much, since I now know that she is working through resentments that cannot let her function otherwise. I remains my hope that soon she will see that I am really a "good guy" and that she was not stupid for marrying me, and that she can forgive herself and me. I really do think that my good intentions (plenty of mistakes, though) of all these years is of some value.<P>Am I dreaming?<BR>Thanks for your reply.<P>Good luck to all. What I am doing above is working, but it took a long time for me to get here. I dropped out of therapy about a year ago and I haven't taken medication for quite awhile.<BR>R <BR>ps I have found that rehearsing the above, perhaps in the last 5 minutes of my drive home, is a helpful technique. Visualizing myself as successful in this is useful. Remember, you will not get too loud, you will appear relaxed and loving, you will not press your point, but will appear to be listening closely without distractions, etc.<BR>Prayer or meditation can't hurt, but don't try the latter while driving.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>