Hello Dan,

I thought I'd have a better chance of catching you over here at D/D than GQII......unfortunately.

Thank you for your reply to my update. As you can see, you and my S are both headed in the same direction. However, I see that your W is set to maintain her R with OM. I am really sorry that you have to deal with this. I'm sure it is especially hard since you work at the same place. It is beyond my understanding how the co-workers could condone, let alone encourage this. It is shameful.

You had mentioned in one of your posts that you were considering returning to school. What have you decided about that? I wonder if, in these politically correct times, a mature student like yourself (See how PC I am. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) could get some scholarships, grants, or loans.

I don't come to D/D very much, so refresh my memory. The kids are with your W? What a stinking mess. Doesn't it just eat you up for adulterous women to get the kids!!!!!? Our GS has been introduced to his second "Uncle" So-and- So. It makes me so angry for her to be able to do that and not have it affect custody one tiny bit. I can only imagine how hard it is for you to be gracious in your situation.

But, you know what? As the years go by, and you do the best you possibly can to be a positive influence in your kids' lives, and you try really hard not to bad-mouth or fight with your STBXW, your children will eventually realize how it came to be that you and their mom live apart. Then their mother will have some explaining to do.

May I make a suggestion? Maybe you can start a journal in which you write to the kids. Not every day or anything, but as their birthdays approach, or special occasions, or when you feel moved to do so. Write your rememberances. Recount funny stories. Tell them what endears them to you. Then when they are older, there will be proof positive that they were foremost in your mind through the years. Then, whatever their mother says or does, they will know the truth.

All this is so unfair. One way you recover is to deal with this insult with poise and dignity - because you are the one with class. Remember that, Dan. You know who has behaved well. You know who is worthy of respect.

Take care,
Estes

Estes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How is your son coping ? How well does he deal with his Stbx? I surprised you remember so many elements of my story..

I am planning a return to school; I think I will start in the winter session. I have too many coals in the fire at the moment to do it justice. I'll take any financial support I can get, but my current salary is likely an issue. I believe I'm going to solicit a financial planner to help me plan the next few steps. Actually, I've already called one..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The kids are with your W? What a stinking mess. Doesn't it just eat you up for adulterous women to get the kids!!!!!? Our GS has been introduced to his second "Uncle" So-and- So. It makes me so angry for her to be able to do that and not have it affect custody one tiny bit. I can only imagine how hard it is for you to be gracious in your situation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes..my 4yo son calls him "mommy's friend". My 8yo daughter won't talk about him directly. She looks extremely embarrased when I drop them off and his truck is there..but they do enjoy the company of his two kids..*sigh* I'm trying to figure out how to coparent w stbx, OM, and honor the integrity of how I feel and what has happened..I will currently email, but refuse to speak w her..

I have had 50/50, and am fighting to keep that. (My former lawyer told me that I had done everything right, but that her lawyer is a nice guy, she can see my stbx's position as a mother because my youngest is so young, in a few years I can work up to dinners w older daughter when stbx tires of her lifestyle,judges just don't want to hear all these cases, and more along this vein. )

I have just paid to retain a new lawyer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Estes, I find it ecxeedingly dificult to interact at all with her. How does your son manage? How is he coping? Has he done any reading or therapy? ( I have an outstanding christian counsellor, but I had to move through two others first that really weren't right for me..) The last three books I've read have really hit home ( Verbally Abusive Relationship, Boundries, and Co Dependant No More..) I wonder if your son would benefit from these insights..

Estes, your words are pearls. I have prayed for you and your son, and will continue to do so.The suggestion you've made is excellent, it's a beautiful idea.

Blessings to you and yours, and peace.

Dan

Just a bump

Hi Family Man,

Sorry to intrude on your personal thread but the story hit home and I thought I might let you know what I was doing about co-parenting with the ExH and OW.

I too am keeping purely, as purely as I can, contact by e-mail with my ExH. My counselor has told me that it's just too painful for me to have to deal with him on a regular basis - and she's right. I am also not on an equal footing with him emotionally and mentally as he is still able to control me if give the chance - so e-mail is better.

What I find somewhat ironic is that OW cares more about working with me to parent the kids than ExH does. So, what do I do?

The counselor asked me this question and maybe you can answer it for yourself. She said "will it matter what you tell your ExH about parenting issues? will he just do what he wants anyway no matter what you say? The answers to these questions for me is no and yes. Basically you are asking yourself - can you control the actions of the WS or the OP. The answer is no, so why even put yourself through the emotional heatache of trying to have a relationshp with them when you don't need to at this time.

So the solution is to control what you can control, which is your time with the kids.

You almost have to pretend that you can't count on Ex to do anything with kids and then when they do something, it's a plus.

As far as scheuduling activities, I've told Ex that I will submit all my e-mail questions to him by 9pm at night and will respond to any e-mails received by him during the day by 9am the next day. I also told him that if he would like to schedule a phone call with me about particular issues then he must arrange it through e-mail and have an agenda. The phone conversation will be tape recorded. This protects me from verbal abuse as Ex is more likely to be nicer if he knows the conversation is taped.

Activites which involve the kids are agreed upon jointly, or if Ex decides upon somehting that I can't handle, then I tell him he's on his own with transportation for the activity or event.

Also, the counselor said that as the "sane" parents, we need to teach our kids the coping skills needed to handle the situation that they are in. We need to provide an environment where the kids can feel free to express their feelings. So if son says that daddy won't listen to him about X then I tell son, well I'm sorry that daddy didn't but maybe you could tell person Y, because they would love to hear about X. You teach them to find their own solutions in the face of adversity. They need to get their feelings and emotions out but they need training in how to do it.

Also, you can politely tell other parent what the rules will be in your house and ask for their rules so that you can assist in inforcing them, and the other parent may get the picture and keep consistent some of your rules, but it's hard.

As long as you keep a stable welcoming safe environment for the kids, then they will be able to cope better. And because I have an 8 year old - who has been through first communion and the commandments, he knows what dad is doing is wrong, and we talk about loving the sinner and hating the sin. And the counselor said that the kids don't or shouldn't be expected or forced to love the other person or their kids, but that they should be polite as they would to anyone else, and then if things go well the love will follow.

What has happened with me is that the kids received so much attention from OW at first, they expect the same amount now, and if they don't get it they are upset. Reality is setting in, and I'm there for them.

I hope that some of this helps. It is NOT easy for us to deal with the WS or the OP. However, try to detach and realize that they will never be as happy as we who have gone through this mess and survived as better people for it. Our kids will notice the difference in the houses, and through the years, by our example and convictions, they will learn right from wrong - I hope.

K

Hi,

I finally got back to the computer. I see that GIIC has given you some good advice from first-hand experience. My view is second-hand, and significantly, my DIL is no longer involved with former OM. The development of what seems to be at least the beginning of a R with OM #2 has come at a time that the M is definitely over. So my S does not have to deal with OM #1 anymore.

As to how S is coping, it is an up and down ride, as you know. In the beginning, he was bewildered, panicky. Later, angry and anxious. He became physically ill. Once he decided that he had to move to where she had relocated when she left him, he had renewed hopes which were soon dashed since she really had no intention to commit to reconciliation. Now, 18 months into this and with D in progress, he is bitter and cynical, and at this point, he hates her. (He knows he will have to work throught this.)

Unlike you and GIIC, S has frequent contact with DIL. They are always exchanging GS. S has GS three days a week, and DIL has him four. He is just 3 1/2 and therefore not on a school schedule.
They live about 20 minutes apart in the same town and drop off and pick up their little boy at each other's homes every few days.

DIL's behavior is strange in that she will do something hateful one day then call the next day acting as if nothing has happened. S feels like he's a yoyo on a string. However, he is now at the point that he couldn't care less if he has contact with her since she is such a source of stress. He is very, very ready to NOT have her as apart of his life legally. Yet, they will continue to see each other regularly for the next couple of decades because of GS. I think DIL will want to stay in contact with him for her own security.

How S is going to keep DIL from bringing GS around men in the future is a concern. In reality, there is probably very little he can do to prevent it. You see that all the time on MB.
The BS/xBS cannot control who the children see after the D. So sad and outrageous.

GS called OM #1 Uncle "So and So"; actually he was told to call OM that, but "So and So" was not his real name. It was a coverup in case GS slipped up and talked. DIL has told GS not to talk about OM #2, "...because Daddy might be jealous." This was sadly funny because GS brought this up himself two days in a row at the breakfast table.

DIL recently took GS to CA supposedly to visit relatives. In reality she spent most of the time with OM #2, and GS was with them.

Currently, they are both wanting to have the D over ASAP. S is looking forward to no longer being responsible for DIL and her debts. I think he is coping with what to do about GS by planning to spend as much time as possible with him over the years to come to buffer DIL's erratic behavior. She is a chronic liar and manipulator, so he never knows what is the truth and what is a lie. He operates now on the assumption that he can't believe a thing she says.

Isn't this sad, sad for all parents affected by these situations, sad for all the confused children who never deserved to be put in this situation.

Ultimately, Dan, you can't change her. All you can do is chose to be honorable, chose to rise above her ugliness, and carry on in the face of frustration and anger and hurt. You cope the best you can, and yes, S has seen a counselor. He stopped, but will begin again. He has read a number of books. If you want me to get a list, I will. He shared his pain with church friends before he moved west. Unfortunately he is alone in the new town. He's been too preoccupied with M problems to build a new circle of friends yet. So he calls me and his dad. He is now trying a second type of antidepressant because he has not been functioning efficiently. I think it is helping.

He was SOOO relieved the day he decided to give up the fight, to accept that the M would not recover. He's having trouble being patient. We all know that personal recovery can take two years or more, yet he wants things to be OK now...impossible, of course.

It seems to me that your current stance of distancing yourself from her is justifiable considering the fact that WW is so blatantly disrespectful to you. Do everything you can do legally to protect your interests and assure your access to the children. Work an accepting the reality of your situation as unfair as it is, because this IS your reality. You are honorable; she is dishonorable. Yet, you are being grievously pained. Very, very unfair, but time will prove who followed the right course.

Try to work through your anger and resentment as quickly as you can - for YOUR sake. She is not worth damaging your physical and emotional health one minute longer. Break your legal tie to her, and begin to live for yourself again. In time, things will be good for you again.

Wishing you well, Dan,
Estes

^^^up^^^