Well one week after stbx tells me it is off with OW, we webcam for him and the kids. I don't see her, but I can hear her on the mic and her high heels clacking away in the background.

So upfront person that I am, I asked him why he lied to me, to which he says he didn't. Well, either he has a new one or she never left. I go for the latter. I asked him to be honest, which he ignored.

Okay, this upset me big time, I was shaking like a leaf when we disconnected, and had a massive headache. I think it is because I am like Pavlov's dog; he lied to me again, and I had the same old physical reactions. Another reason I am upset is that it is proof that he STILL thinks I am stupid. Gee, bet they are over there in Mozambique laughing their asses off at me.

It sucks. I didn't think he could have that effect on me. I said all week that he must be lying, but when I find out he IS, it upsets me.

Well just thought I would share. WHY do these things always happen to me on the weekend, when the board is quiet?

Nina - I just thought I would write because you are right the boards are quiet - I don't have much experience trying to understand why we still believe them because I do it all of the time... I just cannot understand - why do they continue to lie??? I mean really do they think we are that stupid??? But the funny thing is that half the time I am second guessing myself - thinking well ok maybe he is really telling me the truth - but you know what he has been lying for over a year and a half - so why would he tell the truth now??? I just got divorced last Wednesday and I still freak - when the lady next door drives out of her driveway I am thinking they are together (long story)... But the point I must get across in my brain is that - he doesn't matter anymore - It is overwith - I am on my own - I deserve to be happy...You know we need a nice man who is going to take our mind off of our xhusbands and make us feel that we to are important - and that they have made a huge mistake... Though you like me - probably think that is the furthest thing from your mind... - Well I wish you luck getting through the day - try to stay calm.... I will check in later <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

Nina -

It still affects you because you are still a good trusting person who wants to think the best of people and that perhaps people can change.

I do the same thing. I still think that maybe my Ex is really changing - especially after all the praying I've been doing - when he talks to me and I let my guard down and BAM! he reverts back to his old ways, and I'm hurt.

All I can fathom is that I just better get used to the fact that it will take me a long time to get over the loss of the marriage. I mean my Ex went from someone who I totally trusted and thought was a very moral and upright person, to someone who is now wallowing in sin. This takes some time to get over. We have to totally change the way we deal with them, and change is harder as we get older, plus, we're so used to relating to them one way, and now we can't.

This is especially pertinent to me right now as we are hashing out all of the child custody and property settlements. Ex is trying to come off as this perfect dad - and then I want to believe that the changes he's making will last - but then he does something stupid - it's like they just can't make it work - kind of like when we were in Plan A and we were trying to show the WH's that we were making lasting changes and how hard it was not to slip back into old habits.

Don't beat yourself up about this, I still hope for the best and then find out the worst. It's like - at least for me - I'm still hanging on to that .999999999999999999999 chance that he'll wake up and change, but it's just not happening.

I've asked God why a million times, but the only answer that I get is to trust Him, that the plan for my life is something that God has all figured out and that I've just got to do what God wants and not what I want - and then of course everything will work out for my good.

Of course, this all sounds easy to say, but in reality, very hard to live.

You're doing great so far! It's a day to day journey still, and for me, even sometimes an hour by hour or minute by minute journey, but I still trust and God hasn't let me down yet.

Keep focusing on you and your kids and let God worry about WH.

K

Nina, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

So sorry for your pain! I have no answers for you, just wanted to let you know I'll hold you in my prayers, and ask God to grant you healing and freedom from this nightmare. I too am the 'quintessential' truster; spent three years trying to believe the BS my husband fed me. It is incomprehensible to me how these people can behave as they do, and then carry on with all their rationalizations, justifications, etc. Why the need to carry on the deception? Anyways, know that there is another soul out here in cyber space who cares, and is praying for you. TRY TO FOCUS ON YOU. We don't deserve to waste anymore of our lives pining over all that dross out there. If you are meant to get back together, it will happen in God's time, and if not, then believe that God has other dear plans for you. Hang in there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Nina

GIIC is correct: IT DOESN'T MATTER. My exW's ongoing affair with her BF (OM) has been a constant source of irritation for me, as well as concern, since she is NOT the person of intergrity I know her to be anymore. Recently when she declared it was over, I secretly rejoiced, thinking she had returned to the land of normal people, and the fog would clear, only to be disappointed by later knowledge that she was still seeing him. Her shameless acceptance of scraps from OM, and the fact that he is still very much involved with his live-in GF + kids, leads me to be believe that my exW will somehow never escape this FOG. My estimation of her has dropped, and I've in fact decided that she has to do without my support from now on. I cannot support someone involved with such immoral stupidity, who thinks nothing of breaking up family units, no matter how tenuous they may be. It's sad, but you should give up now, & concentrate on your life. They are indeed lost, and if they find their way eventually, it will have to be without our (well, at least MY) assistance.

muzohead

Arrrrrrgh.

Why????Guess that there isn't alot to do in Mozambique so they had to hook up again. Wonder how she feels that your xH has to lie about her presence? Must feel pretty awful to be a lie even when you are separated by so many miles.

Fog abounds around the world or so it seems. I agree with others. Let them alone. He will find out how good he had it. In fact, I am not sure if Austin was alone on the west coast this weekend.

You deserve better. And do what Pavlov would have done. Change the conditioning. IF the dog smelled food and someone hit him over the head with a hammer, then he wouldn't want to salivate for that food anymore. We somehow have to remember how that hammer feels when it is applied to our noggins..Until recently, I think I was also addicted to this wierd feeling I got when I would discover his lies and other betrayals.

We have to let them go and wander about in the funky fog. When they wander out of fog, we may or may not be within their reach anymore. That is up to us.

We trust because that is the sort of people we are. That is the sort of people that have allowed this sort of thing to occur. I know that at least in my instance, I never once thought of having an affair. But I know that she accused me of it in a round about way, many times. I believe that they (WS) tend to believe that we are doing what they are doing. Or they are afraid of us doing it anyway, which justifies it in their minds.

I trusted my wife completely my entire life with her. I never once tried to control her actions, although all she says she felt was controlled. I believe it was because I was very open and honest about my feelings and desires. There were no hidden agendas. However, this has never been a two way street. And I truly don't think that she ever believed what I said, because she just couldn't believe that I was being honest. That I wasn't "like her" and lying about most things. People tend to believe others behave like they do. Therefore liars think everybody lies, justifying their actions and trusting people think others tend to be naturally honest, thereby setting themselves up for pain when they marry a liar.

I don't know why we don't learn our lessons. I guess it is our nature to believe and it is in their nature to be unfaithful, in truth and in marriage. I don't know why my wife still felt the need to lie. I think it is because she knows it is wrong, but it just feels so good. She lied to everybody in her life about her affairs. She even lied to her very best friend several times about it, or that it "Wasn't".

I hope that we will learn. I think that I have finally learned about my wife. Not because of her infidelity, but because she hurt me so much after our break by repeatedly putting my children on the chopping block when trying to get money from me. She just couldn't believe that when I said that I would help her, that I would do it. I never waivered from my position, and the fact that she would never be able to do it if the roles were reversed made her so disbelieving, that she continued to try to leverage our children even though I was giving her everything she was asking for. Even after 14 years, she just can't get it through her head that I am a man of integrity and my word. Many lies have surfaced since I discussed money issues with her last. Her lies have continued to plague me given that she continues to think I am as dense as she apparently is. I don't feel that I have much more to give before I break and just go with the regular child support schedule, which is substantially less than what I pay.

In essence, liars lie and believers trust. This is what separates us on this board.

Take care...

Thank you for the support everyone. Nearly 24 hours later and I still feel ill. It turns out he had told his mother they had split, too, so maybe he did, and then got back together....anyway now it is back to "WE" will be coming over for Christmas.....

I saw his sister and parents today, dropping off the kids for a few days. His sister (the third person to tell me this from his family) told me how nice I was for allowing stbx to have the kids on Christmas day. I NEVER agreed to that...yet. Cos maybe I will agree to some of the day or something. But he is going around telling everyone something that I didn't say. So I told them and I then emailed him. Do you know he actually backed down...after further consideration, blah, blah.

I miss my kids already, but I know I need a break from them, and the house seems so quiet. Too much time to think about this. I am going to have to get out and do something.

Love and light,

Jacky

Nina Too:

Sorry for not noticing your thread earlier. I am also sorry this is happening 2 you. It sounds like a lot of recent developments going on, with the stbx's "new" R in a mess and his recent filing for DV. I bet this is far from over at this point.

You've been a great help 2 me in the recent past. I just wish I could be of more help 2 you right now.

Please hang in there. You're definitely worth it.

2long,

That you replied is help enough...thank you so much.

There I was a few short weeks ago on your mega-thread being strong and supportive, not knowing what was around the corner for me. He is playing games with me and I am just sooooooooooo sick of it. That is what happens if it goes on long enough.

You know what? A lot of people have told me to let go, let go. And I did, of the man I once knew, and loved with all my heart. I think I am reacting because this man, as he is now, is not the man I knew....even his family think so. This STRANGER was ruder to me than any real stranger could be. He met OW and he died. Or became a robot. Almost literally.

She was in the room when we were IM'ing and web camming with the kids. I could hear her laugh, and I was praying that it was so distorted that the kids would not know. Yet one by one, without saying anything, they all left the screen. Makes ya think...what is going on in their hearts? Their ears are so much better than mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

I objected to his having her there seeing ME getting the thing ready for him and the kids, then gooshing over MY babies, then when I asked him if he was lying about splitting up, he looks to her to see what to say.............what a [censored] whipped idiot.

I feel like writing to her, telling her...hey you watched how bad he can be to me...how long do you think you will escape? But she made her own bed too.

I am trying to be strong. I am trying to take the high road YET again. I am trying to be the better person in this mess for the sake of my KIDS. But wow, doesn't Harley allow for a huge LB every now and then to let off steam? I was crying to my MIL tonight for God's sake. When all I wanted to do was yell at him. And what can she say? Sher knows her son has turned into somthing she doesn't recognise, but neither her, me or God can put him right.

Sounds like I want him back...NO. BIG NO. But I want him to be that person I knew, the one with integrity, the one who would never hurt anyone, the one who was polite and had respect for people (ok, never for me, but hey) and a good and loving Dad who would let NO-ONE between him and his kids. I do not want him back as a husband. I want my old husband back, sure...but not this Frankenstein he has become. The one SHE helped make him into.

Today I was fooling around on the net and someone on their pc logged in. I logged into offline mode. DID not want to know who was on the other end....her probablt, he should have been at work. But GOSHHHHHHHHHHH it was tempting to see if it was her and let her know a few home truths, like previous affairs, the abuse, etc. She thinks she has a prize...well so did I until I was away from it.

WHY am I wasting time on this stuff? How the heck do I know...I will blame it on the full moon this weekend. UGH!

Sorry, but I have to get this out...it will fester otherwise.

TRYING to send love and light to all,

Jacky

Jacky,

Been there, done that, and it still makes me mad. Why lie to you anymore, does it make a difference. that is something I have never understood. My STBX does the same thing, he has been telling me for months that he (just him) is going to move closer to us but he never does, of course it always about money, bottom line, he gives me too much so he is stuck with OW. his bed, he made it, hope he is enjoying sleeping in it.

Jacky,

I think they broke up and then got back together. I also think you played right in to her hands. She wanted to you to hear her and she made all kinds of noise to let you know she was still around because your stbx told her she couldn't show her face on the camera. She wanted to upset you and she did.

I also think it is the beginning of the end for those two. They've already split at least once....there's major trouble in paradise...

There relationship is getting so fragile right now. You want to help with splitting them up a little sooner...You are going about it all the wrong way...Act nice to him when you set up the web cam...flirt a little...get under her skin...

Take care,

ANNA

Jacky,

the kids know he lied too..they heard her there also..even though they may not have verbalized anything..their actions of getting up and walking away spoke volumes..

And you did good confronting him..letting him know you know he was lying...he knows your not stupid..but he wants to keep telling himself that..so he doesn't have to face the reality of himself..

ForConfused: most everything you said resonates SO deeply with me. There are some of us who DO just seem to trust implicitly. Then when we are paired together with liars, what do we have? Backstabbing spouses who manipulate us with that trust. My WH spent years justifying his 'budding romance' with OW by twisting the truth and blaming ME of NOT BEING TRUSTING. Even now (10 months after he and she both abandoned their respective families) I have yet to hear him admit the truth.

Nina, I'm so sorry this misery continues for you. We All know how you feel; that's about the only consolation I can give you. When I feel particularly down, just knowing you are all here going through the same hell I'm in, is a comfort. I know that's somewhat an ironic, twisted comfort, but nonethe less it does help to know there are others who TOTALLY understand these emotions. And I truly believe as so many others here do that we will all be better people at the end. God is refining us thro all this pain, and that is MY TRUE COMFORT! I do find joy at the thought that God is changing me into His image - that thru all these trials I'm being purified in His sight. We are all already closer to God and have a deeper understanding of God's heart. That to me is awesome!

I often feel lonely for the man my husband used to be, but never feel alone anymore. Thru all this I found my God again. And in deep places inside me, I know that even tho physically and emotionally I sometimes ache for my husband's presence, God will NEVER EVER desert me the way our WS's have done.

We ALL deserve to love and be loved; even as I feel hatred towards OW and WH at times, I realize they are acting out of desperation and ignorance. Satan has attacked them in their vulnerable spots, and twisted / warped their thinking all to hell. That's really where they are now - in a living hell. We ALL have needs and desires, but as ForConfused said, what separates us from our betrayers is that we hold to the truth. We choose to believe out of love and respect for who they USED to be. Because we can't conceive of ever being so needy as to destroy other people's (including their OWN CHILDREN'S) lives to gain a temporary 'fix'. We could all have gone out and had affairs, but I thank God that some of us hold onto our integrity and comittment to the marriage.

Sorry, I'm feeling less than charitable just now as well. I too am fed up with the lies and deceptions. It's so juvenile. If you're going to have an affair, then have the guts to call it that, and don't try to justify it. As a Christian, there IS NO justification for it. But, that's what we're all struggling with - the fact that after destroying each other's families, they don't have the simple decency to come clean about it. There are no answers. It's sin, plain and simple, and until they allow God back into their hearts, I guess we won't see anything different.

Hang in there, keep praying, praying, praying, and do what you have to do. Sounds to me like it's time you cut off as much contact with WH as possible. Contact just perpetuates all the negative, doesn't it? If it's meant to be (God's will) it will be, in God's time. Take care of yourself and your family now. I'll keep praying for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hmmmm. Jacky my friend I have an idea. Like the flirting idea on the webcam. Let Ms. Clicky-Heels feel your presence. Wear something, well cutsie next time you webcam. I have a good lower neck area, get it?, and if I were to webcam knowing ms. monkey was watching, I would show that a bit. Be cute, look cute and flirt. Drive him mad. Drive her bonkers. Make her really pace up and down on that floor clicking her heels about. But then cut it off. Plan B time. Leave xH with a definite image in his mind.

Yep, he royally messed up. And I also agree w/all here in saying that we don't want to spend any more time listening to foggy WS's who can give only lame justifications as to why they chose to rip their families apart. Hate the sin not the sinner. Just acknolwedge that sin. Despise that sin. And do as I do, try to treat them as you would a person in a psych ward lockdown unit. I had one patient today. He was a paranoid schizophrenic. Before I started his iv, he was seeing all colored triangles floating around and hallucinating believing people were yelling at him. I just once again used that old tactic I now use on Austin. Funny, it worked on the scizophrenic too. Just agree with them. Smile, nod your head in agreement. Then slide in the truth gently and never validate their words. Remember what they are saying is just words. It is not truth it is not valid. That makes it easier to hear. Then disarm them by throwing off the subject and say something about yourself positive or something totally off in left field to distract them.

Sorry he is still with Ms. Clicky heels. I think even if I D, Austin as long as ms. monkey is gone, I wouldn't have as much animosity unless woman was a total nut case or total moral degenerate.

WOW....finally a 'name' for OW that I can PRINT here...how about Ms Clicketty Clack. LMAO

I get a vision of someone about to fall off their exaggerated high heels, wobbling about...hehe.

Gosh THAT made me feel better.

As for the flirty thing, I would be only doing that to get up HER nose...kinda funny, like the idea to a point. But really I was only on cam to get it set up, because I am in Plan B with him except for kids and business (except we don't even talk about business these days). So what I did was I took the keyboard to the side and the kids were in front of the camera. I was typing what they said, until they went away and I asked him why he lied.

Yeah, the Plan B is excellent because contact always does hurt, ALWAYS. It gets the memories going again, good and bad ones. Well I suppose in some deep recesses of his Fogged brain it may do the same to him. Who knows?

Their pc came online again later in the night...and now I am wondering if it is her trying to get up my nose yet another way. Ugh. I just go offline, can't be bothered. But maybe I should stay on, so she knows she can't scare me away.

Hmmm, if she is doing those tactics, making sure I knew she was there....she must feel threatened. I know I would since he told me virtually right away that they split...I would be thinking "Why did he tell HER?" and be doing everything to break whatever tentative bond she thinks we have. Also she doesn't know what we said about it, which was nothing...that has gotta eat her up, lol.

Oh well. Feeling a bit better today. We will see what happens at the next web cam session.

Love and light,

Jacky

PS: If the webcamming gets too painful for me, kids or not, it will stop. Just thought I would share that.

Nina 2:

"WOW....finally a 'name' for OW that I can PRINT here...how about Ms Clicketty Clack. LMAO
I get a vision of someone about to fall off their exaggerated high heels, wobbling about...hehe."

What if they're not high heels? More likely than not, they're her bare claws clicking on that cheap linoleum flooring...

....she might even have fangs 2 go along with them claws! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Now THERE is a vision!!!!!!!!

Ms Clicketty Clack Claw Feet....there, how is that????

LMAO 2long!!!!!!!!!