Thursday a.m. on the phone I reminded H of some matters and he said we would talk later. <P>In the eve. he said "talk!"...So I casually<BR>and briefly got small matters out of the way first and suddenly he became furious! He accused me of always putting "us" last in talk and in our life!!!! This shocked me and threw me into confusion, wondering why he was saying this. Now I realize it was his attempt to get back at me and blame for a comment I made earlier in counseling that H doesn't make us a priority. <P>H grabbed me and pushed me into the chair, then proceeded to blame, shame, project, (very angry & verbally abusive!)and criticized me as being dysfunctional, phony, etc. He said my posting on the computer and the abused woman who contacts me for support--it's all gossip. He said I'm playing games and just out to condemn him in counseling, that I'm unwilling to just go there, smile and agree to reconcile! <P>He is mad that I quit going to church with him. Since marriage to him is only for ministry and meeting his needs, he expects me to come back to church and eventually start up with him in the ministry he was in before we met. How can I do that without relationship and with his abuse????? <P>He firmly, angrily stated he will not go to Harley's marriage seminar, nor will he attend the Michael card concert with me in Nov. (I could feel this was his way of trying to bring back his control, if I don't go to his church, he won't go where I want.) But I just can't go with him to his church that keeps him in this immature mindset!!!!!!!<P>I just sat there and listened to him, and didn't try to tell him different...it doesn't do any good. He wants to think the worst of me and misunderstand my motives. He does not want a real relationship, only control and someone to take his negative feelings (pressure from work, etc) out on.<P>Friday a.m. I awoke, tired, and emotionally falling apart, tears running down my face. Harley's seminar is so close by, yet so far for my husband to emotionally travel!!! The seminar seemed like God's provision, one last time!! I was so devastated!!!! As bad as he had treated me, I still LOVE H's soul!!!! He is so blind to everything!! God, I give him to YOU! I can do no more.<P>I'm thinking now may be the time to leave to stay at our old house, and leave him with the seminar phone number, so should he change his mind and enroll us,he can call me to go. Our chance for the future will hinge on whether he will humble himself and go. Right?????<P>Friday night he started in again calling me rebellious and evil, unwilling to reconcile, which he defines as going back to how things used to be (him in complete control). I managed to escape, fortunately,as I couldn't take anymore.<P>He leaves me with no other options but to leave. If he can't get himself to go to this seminar, there is nothing else left to do!<P>I will come back here to check responses, then may have to quit posting. <P>Sadly,<BR>Renae <BR>

Oooh. oo. Don't quit posting!! Get a Yahoo account or some such thing and log in at the public library if you have to! <P>HE TOUCHED YOU??!!! HE PUSHED YOU DOWN INTO A CHAIR!!!!!!! <B>AND YOU DIDN'T CALL THE POLICE?!!!!!!!!!</B> Bad, bad Renae. You are letting him commit (assault) crimes with impunity again. Get out. ASAP.<P>Every thing else you said: GOOD. <P>Good luck with your move. Don't let him take advantage of you. <P>Maybe he will get an idea, but he is so self-centered that it seems like that's only an extremely remote possibility. You don't really think he respects your relationship enough to work on it with you at a seminar he would have to pay for, do you? He is a rotten dude! This should prove it at last.

Renae:<P>I'm going to sound like Karenna's echo.....<BR>"WHAT? HE GRABBED YOU AND PUSHED YOU INTO A CHAIR?" And you just took it?????<P>Renae, Renae....my heart cries out for you, how much more abuse will you ingest? Why can't you see that the longer you stay with him and allow yourself to be his 'dumping' ground....the longer he will refuse to face his own issues.<P>I'm horrified that you would allow him to grab/push you into a chair for you have shared several other previous incidents of physical touching by him that was anything but loving/affirming.<P>You must get away from this man and completely cut off contact for a season, not only for his sake..but now for yours.<P>[censored] from Texas

This afternoon before H left the house, Dr. Harley & his wife came on the radio. I told H this is the man doing the seminar and mentioned again that it would be helpful to go. H condemned that they were talking about Mike Trout, and H turned to the radio and began preaching at them that they are judgemental and maybe Mike's wife is the cause!!!!! I said, they aren't judging Mike!!!!! But he kept preaching over my words and acting self-righteous.<P>H said, "Why should I go when I'm the only one interested in having a marriage?" (ya, right!!?) I said, Why would I ask you to go to counseling and this seminar, H, if I wasn't interested in having a marriage?????<P>He responded, "All you want to do is condemn." I said it is not condemning, but instead, according to Matt. 18:15-19, when you continually offend and sin against me, I should confront you alone, then between two witnesses and the church, in an effort to have repentance, change, and forgiveness. He looked a bit shocked at this, then said "you only want to bring up the past". I explained that I only bring up what hasn't been resolved and needs to change. "You are unforgiving", he countered. I said, but you've not admitted to doing anything wrong! According to your often quoted verse, Luke 17:3, you must repent to get forgiveness. <P>I asked, has anything Pastor has said in counseling changed your mind? He said no, and that he was not being corrected for anything!!!! (what???) H says "I have a very balanced view of submission, I have done nothing wrong, and you Renae are the whole problem, just out to condemn and make up lies. You are a perfectionist who just blames and will always be the type hurting over nothing. I don't like blaming!!! I've decided your parents are good people,(Of course they are, I said) but you're a bad one!!!" (for not agreeing with his abuse!!?)<P>This is enough. Yes, Karenna and [censored]. I have earned my way out. Finally. This week I must go. If he wakes up and decides to go to the seminar, great...if not, I will be away and at peace. No more abuse! <P><p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited October 23, 2000).]

This afternoon before H left the house, Dr. Harley & his wife came on the radio. I told H this is the man doing the seminar. He condemned the fact they were talking about Mike Trout, and preached at the radio that they are judgemental and maybe Mike's wife is the cause!!!!! I said, they aren't judging him!!!!! But he kept preaching over my words.<P>H said, "Why should I go when I'm the only one interested in having a marriage?" (ya, right!!?) I said, Why would I ask you to go to counseling and this seminar, H, if I wasn't interested in having a marriage?????<P>He responded, "All you want to do is condemn." I said it is not condemning, but instead, according to Matt. 18:15-19, when you continually offend and sin against me, I should confront you alone, then between two witnesses and the church, in an effort to have repentance, change, and forgiveness. He looked a bit shocked at this, then said "you only want to bring up the past". I explained that I only bring up what hasn't been resolved and needs to change. "You are unforgiving", he countered. I said, but you've not admitted to doing anything wrong! According to your often quoted verse, Luke 17:3, you must repent to get forgiveness. <P>I asked, has anything Pastor has said in counseling changed your mind? He said no, and that he was not being corrected for anything!!!! (what???) H says "I have a very balanced view of submission, I have done nothing wrong, and you Renae are the whole problem, just out to condemn and make up lies. You are a perfectionist who just blames and will always be the type hurting over nothing. I don't like blaming!!! I've decided your parents are good people,(Of course they are, I said) but you're a bad one!!!" <P>I've explained the counseling, asked for attendance at the seminar, and this is enough!!! This week it is time to go. Maybe he will change his mind to attend the seminar. But if not, I will at least be away and have peace. <P>Yes, Karenna and [censored]. I have earned my way out. Finally. No more abuse!<BR> <BR>

Whew!! Please let us know when you are well and safely out. And how the progress with getting on goes!

Renae:<P>I honestly believe, for the moment, a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME for you to be bantering words back & forth with your husband.<P>You and he aren't on the same page, in the same zip code, not even in the same solar system.<P>Heed the words found somewhere in the N.T. that say "....let him who is filthy, be filthy still" (i.e. let him who is proud/hard-headed like your H remain that way).<P>You can not change your husband and according to the book of James, in talking about the Wisdom that descends from above....one of the fruit of Godly Wisdom is, that "it is willing to yield to reason....and is peace-loving".<P>Your H displays none of this. The time for talk is over, yes...you have earned the right to leave and the quicker you do, the faster (I pray), your husband will begin to face himself when you are not around to blame and dump on.<P>We are for you Renae......you have openly demonstrated Agape towards your H...now it is time to move on.<P>I also feel very strongly that when you do separate...you must follow what Harley calls Plan B....the no contact rule. If you stay with Plan A...even when you are separated..husband will use this to continue to beat on you (verbally).<P>Please.....I'm ready to pop open the 'bubbly' to celebrate you finally taking charge of your life and getting away from this man.<P>Please don't stop posting and if you do, please e-mail me.....<P>Your friend/brother in Christ....<P>[censored] from Texas

Renae:<P>How are you doing ????<P>[censored] from Texas

Hello Renae<P>Please do not stop posting. Don't give up your cyberfriends because of him (your H).<P>We really care about you and want to see you come out of this situation as whole and complete as you can.<P>You have put too much effort into this marriage and not really getting anywhere. You deserve so much more. It surely must also be adversely affecting your children.<P>Why waste more time with this inhuman (!) person. You need to heal yourself and the only way right now seems to be away from his abuse.<P>Please let us know how you are doing. Take care and lots of (((((((((hugs)))))))))).

Renae,<P>How are you doing? I think about you every day hoping and praying you are safe. This must be an awful struggle for you. I hope you receive the peace of mind and quality of life you deserve so much.<P>Ragamuffin

I am devastated beyond description!!!!!!<BR>Feels like the Pastor & counselor & my spouse just got done scrambling my spirit, mind, and emotions into a pan. I'm so hurt and confused I'm not sure whose right--them or me. <P>After all I have said to this counselor and pastor.....they are obviously out of touch with how my life is!!!!!!! Their basic view is that H and I are both hurting from each other and in the victim mentality. To get beyond the victim mentality, just don't let the sun go down on our wrath, forgive, and wake up tomorrow a.m. and I trust H and begin showering him with kindnesses, journal about those kindnesses, communicate as if nothing ever happened, then come to counseling and tell them of the new relationship!!!!!!!! <P>They are no different than H, who also thinks I can do that!!!!!!!! This proves to me that it IS H's religion that is keeping him in this immature mindset!!!! <P>I thought Counselor was sharper than this, understood abuse, but obviously isn't. She labeled me as angry, no different than H. What???????? She and Pastor have no idea what my life is like!!!!!! They can obviously not help.<P>Either H, the pastor, and counselor are right and I'm crazy, or they are crazy and I'm right. HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

Greetings to all who have followed my posts:<BR>(Those who haven't followed my previous posts will not understand this one.)<P>Just got back from seeing Pastor & counselor at a counseling session. They & my spouse just got done scrambling my spirit, mind, and emotions 'til I feel like I'm going crazy!!!!!!! I'm so hurt and confused I'm not sure whose right--them or me. <P>After all the incidents I have shared with this counselor and pastor.....they are obviously out of touch with how my life is!!!!!!! Their basic view is that H and I are both hurting from each other and in the victim mentality. To get beyond the victim mentality, just don't let the sun go down on our wrath, forgive, and wake up tomorrow a.m. and I trust H and begin showering him with kindnesses, journal about those kindnesses, communicate as if nothing ever happened, then come to counseling and tell them of the new relationship!!!!!!!! <P>They are no different than H, who also thinks I can do that!!!!!!!! This proves to me that it IS H's religion that is keeping him in this immature mindset!!!! <P>I thought Counselor was sharper than this, understood Controllers and Abusers (spiritual, emotional, mental,physical, etc), but obviously isn't. She labeled me as angry and no different than H. What???????? She and Pastor have no idea what my life is like!!!!!! They can obviously not help.<P>Either H, the pastor, and counselor are right and I'm crazy, or they are crazy and I'm right. HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!! <P>I know this is a horrible question, but are all fundamentalists simplistic about relationships? I mean, they have no understanding of the dynamics and give no credibility to emotional/relational realities? I hope this makes sense to somebody. I'm having a terrible time finding words to describe this.<P>

Greetings to all who have followed my posts:<BR>(Those who haven't followed my previous posts will not understand this one.)<P>Just got back from seeing Pastor & counselor at a counseling session. They & my spouse just got done scrambling my spirit, mind, and emotions 'til I feel like I'm going crazy!!!!!!! I'm so hurt and confused I'm not sure whose right--them or me. <P>After all the incidents I have shared with this counselor and pastor.....they are obviously out of touch with how my life is!!!!!!! Their basic view is that H and I are both hurting from each other and in the victim mentality. To get beyond the victim mentality, just don't let the sun go down on our wrath, forgive, and wake up tomorrow a.m. and I trust H and begin showering him with kindnesses, journal about those kindnesses, communicate as if nothing ever happened, then come to counseling and tell them of the new relationship!!!!!!!! <P>They are no different than H, who also thinks I can do that!!!!!!!! This proves to me that it IS H's religion that is keeping him in this immature mindset!!!! <P>I thought Counselor was sharper than this, understood Controllers and Abusers (spiritual, emotional, mental,physical, etc), but obviously isn't. She labeled me as angry and no different than H. What???????? She and Pastor have no idea what my life is like!!!!!! They can obviously not help.<P>Either H, the pastor, and counselor are right and I'm crazy, or they are crazy and I'm right. HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!! <P>I know this is a horrible question, but are all fundamentalists simplistic about relationships? I mean, they have no understanding of the dynamics and give no credibility to emotional/relational realities? I hope this makes sense to somebody. I'm having a terrible time finding words to describe this.<P>

Renae:<P>Glad to hear from you again but not at what you shared.<P>Why are you still with this man and why are you still talking?<P>[censored] from Texas

Get out first. Are you still living with him or are you somewhat separated?<P>Then go and find a well-trained, competent ("Christian" if you want) psychotherapist. Find someone trained in Domestic Violence counseling. Do this for yourself. Way past time to get some objective opinions and perhaps some well-deserved validation. <P>

I didn't want to go....but H insisted....<BR>Ugh!!!!! I thought I was going to completely "lose it" (my sanity) after yesterdays counseling with Counselor & her Pastor. Pastor said he thinks we are both in the victim mentality (we've deeply hurt each other!!!!!!!!), and we just need to not let the sun go down on our wrath, forgive, and wake up like nothing ever happened and start dishing out kindnesses, journal about those kindnesses, and come back and report on the new relationship!!!!!!! CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS??????? I see clearly where H gets this viewpoint--from his religion!!!!!! Pastor looked at me and asked directly if I'd be willing to do that. After how H has been treating me the last three weeks, I was ready to explode at him and Counselor, who stood by and remarked that H and I are no different, both angry. UGH!!!! Here I thought she at least understood the real situation!!!!!!!!!! To make matters worse, H denied everything else I mentioned and painted himself in new always righteous dimensions, then came home and gently said to me he was sorry but he just had to defend himself!!!! (Is that love, benefiting himself at my expense and making me look like a liar and fool? GRRRRR!!!!!) <P>At one point of the session, I exploded in tears and anguish....Pastor told me to go out for a while. <P>In the evening, probably due to what Pastor advised him to do while I was out of the room, H was forcing us to have conversation, forget the past, and love each other. H would not leave me alone. We argued about the meaning of separation (he views it equal to divorce as pastor/counselor do also). I quickly got my keys and drove out, just in time before H and kids stopped me.<BR>I stayed at our old house and bolted the door. PEACE at last!!!!!!!!! I cried and spoke out everything I needed to between God and myself, listened to some inspiring music, then went to sleep by 1:00 a.m. I have to be at a court hearing tomorrow against the former bad attorney, then plan to go back to the old house....hope to stay there as much as possible.

I didn't want to go....but H insisted....<BR>Ugh!!!!! I thought I was going to completely "lose it" (my sanity) after yesterdays counseling with Counselor & her Pastor. Pastor said he thinks we are both in the victim mentality (we've deeply hurt each other!!!!!!!!), and we just need to not let the sun go down on our wrath, forgive, and wake up like nothing ever happened and start dishing out kindnesses, journal about those kindnesses, and come back and report on the new relationship!!!!!!! CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS??????? I see clearly where H gets this viewpoint--from his religion!!!!!! Pastor looked at me and asked directly if I'd be willing to do that. After how H has been treating me the last three weeks, I was ready to explode at him and Counselor, who stood by and remarked that H and I are no different, both angry. UGH!!!! Here I thought she at least understood the real situation!!!!!!!!!! To make matters worse, H denied everything else I mentioned and painted himself in new always righteous dimensions, then came home and gently said to me he was sorry but he just had to defend himself!!!! (Is that love, benefiting himself at my expense and making me look like a liar and fool? GRRRRR!!!!!) <P>At one point of the session, I exploded in tears and anguish....Pastor told me to go out for a while. <P>In the evening, probably due to what Pastor advised him to do while I was out of the room, H was forcing us to have conversation, forget the past, and love each other. H would not leave me alone. We argued about the meaning of separation (he views it equal to divorce as pastor/counselor do also). I quickly got my keys and drove out, just in time before H and kids stopped me.<BR>I stayed at our old house and bolted the door. PEACE at last!!!!!!!!! I cried and spoke out everything I needed to between God and myself, listened to some inspiring music, then went to sleep by 1:00 a.m. I have to be at a court hearing tomorrow against the former bad attorney, then plan to go back to the old house....hope to stay there as much as possible.

Well Renae, it looks like you've tried everything. I still have not read anything that comes close to a miracle that the counseller had said would occur in one of the sessions.<P>Isn't it time now to get out of this hell. You deserve so much more in this life. Make the best of the years ahead of you.<P>What about your children. Did you leave them with your husband while you stayed at your old house? Will they be ok there?<P>Take care and know that we are praying for you and that you find peace and contentment soon. Please keep us posted.

Hi friends,<BR>Have had trouble with the server & posting....I'm finally back! I'm also recovering from another big blow:<P>Oct.31st Counseling was a Shocker!!!!!<BR>I was so devastated, more than last time (and I thought that was the worst!) But this time, I was terribly confused too! I'm not sure that I've recovered from that yet! But this time, not only did H claim he does everything right, but Pastor pulled back from the table, shook his head and looked at me and said "This is an issue of integrity; you both can't be right!" Because he was looking at me, I wondered if H had convinced him I am a liar. <P>But worse, Counselor betrayed me!!!! She said I am the same as H--angry!!! What?! <BR>If she had lived through the last three weeks that I did with H, she'd be angry too!!!!! But she and pastor decided they wouldn't listen to me on what happened because H had not journaled to compare our stories. They also decided they don't want to hear any more negative information about us. Are they sticking their ostrich-heads in the sand? <P>She led me to believe (when she and I talked alone once) that she saw H as an Abuser/Controller...and would help me. Now, here she was letting Pastor conclude that H and I are both hurting FROM EACH OTHER, in the victim mentality, and all we need to do is not let the sun go down on our wrath, forgive, and wake up the next days to start showering each other with kindnesses, journal about those kindnesses, and come back and report about our wonderful new relationship at the next session!!!!! This sounds like H's idea of resolving our marriage issues! So am I supposed to pretend H is not an abuser and trust him????? Just tack a little religiousness over the problem and it goes away?????<P>Counselor knows of H's abuse toward me!!!<BR>They've seen our communication trouble right in their office!!! He communicates only to dominate, not to build relationship!!!!! How could she & Pastor think I'm able to have a normal relationship with H without H getting major therapy!!!!!!??????<P>I was so SHOCKED and still am!!!!!..... <BR>At first I was really confused...Are they more "Biblical" than me? Am I too influenced by the "Christian Psychology" of the books I've read about my situation? Am I really misperceiving this whole thing? Either I'm crazy or they are. I'm still a little confused. Help!!! This is about patterns of abuse, not a forgiveness thing, right?<P>Well, the last couple days I tried again as they advised, and I get smashed some more. Conclusion--They don't know what they are doing!!! I am unwilling to go back there to that Pastor/Counselor again....ABSOLUTELY, NO!!!!!!!!!!<P>At the session, H brought up that I had read about Spiritual Abuse, grace, etc. He brought some copies of info. I must have printed off the computer months ago, showed it to Counselor, and not having read it, she agreed with H that this was bad stuff!!!!<BR>H is trying to portray me as into some cult and not Biblical like he and Counselor/Pastor are!!!!!!!!!!<P>When we got home from Counseling H came to me and said "Sorry, but when I hear negative stuff, I have to defend myself." Then he walked away. I thought the "sorry" was said in a little apologetic way, like he realized he had lied in counseling and knew it hurt me. But last night I asked him directly what he meant by that, and he said that it was absolutely not an apology, not an admission of wrong. Quite the contrary he meant, you can't get away with this, cuz when you lie to them, Renae, I have to tell the truth!! (GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!) I think H really did realize wrong for a brief moment, then a couple days later denies it! He's done that before!<P>That night after counseling, H called me to the basement "to talk". He was verbally forcing me to get rid of my negative thinking about us and start doing as pastor said!!!!<BR>He emphasized that separation is equal to divorce, God hates divorce and it's a sin, and we're going forward! He kept getting more and more verbally abusive after that (cutting me down, etc.), so I grabbed a small bag I had packed earlier along with my keys and ran out to the car, locked myself in there and started pulling out of the garage. H was not far behind me, trying to stop me and told the kids to reach for the door opener, trying to prevent me from leaving, but I made it out. I was so nerved up from his preaching and anger, that I could hardly drive but made it to our old house and bolted the door. I cried, talked out loud, whatever it took to get out of me the pain within. I thank God I got to that house!!!!!! It felt like I was away from him forever, and I gradually I unwound and felt peace...just me and God. I listened to some inspiring music and went to bed. The next day he came over there to fix windows and treated me with respect and gentleness. I could not stay at that house because we had a court hearing against the x-attorney & I had to be there. <P>Now he knows I will get away from him.<BR>I will not put up with any more abuse. <P>Last night he demanded talk again and it just escalated to abuse again and I was tense all night and unable to concentrate today. I need to get back to the other house after dinner tomorrow. <P>My parents wrote and want to come visit us sometime this month and come here for Christmas. I don't know what to do about that.... <P> <P><BR>

Hi friends,<BR>Have had trouble with the server & posting....I'm finally back! I'm also recovering from another big blow:<P>Oct.31st Counseling was a Shocker!!!!!<BR>I was so devastated, more than last time (and I thought that was the worst!) But this time, I was terribly confused too! I'm not sure that I've recovered from that yet! But this time, not only did H claim he does everything right, but Pastor pulled back from the table, shook his head and looked at me and said "This is an issue of integrity; you both can't be right!" Because he was looking at me, I wondered if H had convinced him I am a liar. <P>But worse, Counselor betrayed me!!!! She said I am the same as H--angry!!! What?! <BR>If she had lived through the last three weeks that I did with H, she'd be angry too!!!!! But she and pastor decided they wouldn't listen to me on what happened because H had not journaled to compare our stories. They also decided they don't want to hear any more negative information about us. Are they sticking their ostrich-heads in the sand? <P>She led me to believe (when she and I talked alone once) that she saw H as an Abuser/Controller...and would help me. Now, here she was letting Pastor conclude that H and I are both hurting FROM EACH OTHER, in the victim mentality, and all we need to do is not let the sun go down on our wrath, forgive, and wake up the next days to start showering each other with kindnesses, journal about those kindnesses, and come back and report about our wonderful new relationship at the next session!!!!! This sounds like H's idea of resolving our marriage issues! So am I supposed to pretend H is not an abuser and trust him????? Just tack a little religiousness over the problem and it goes away?????<P>Counselor knows of H's abuse toward me!!!<BR>They've seen our communication trouble right in their office!!! He communicates only to dominate, not to build relationship!!!!! How could she & Pastor think I'm able to have a normal relationship with H without H getting major therapy!!!!!!??????<P>I was so SHOCKED and still am!!!!!..... <BR>At first I was really confused...Are they more "Biblical" than me? Am I too influenced by the "Christian Psychology" of the books I've read about my situation? Am I really misperceiving this whole thing? Either I'm crazy or they are. I'm still a little confused. Help!!! This is about patterns of abuse, not a forgiveness thing, right?<P>Well, the last couple days I tried again as they advised, and I get smashed some more. Conclusion--They don't know what they are doing!!! I am unwilling to go back there to that Pastor/Counselor again....ABSOLUTELY, NO!!!!!!!!!!<P>At the session, H brought up that I had read about Spiritual Abuse, grace, etc. He brought some copies of info. I must have printed off the computer months ago, showed it to Counselor, and not having read it, she agreed with H that this was bad stuff!!!!<BR>H is trying to portray me as into some cult and not Biblical like he and Counselor/Pastor are!!!!!!!!!!<P>When we got home from Counseling H came to me and said "Sorry, but when I hear negative stuff, I have to defend myself." Then he walked away. I thought the "sorry" was said in a little apologetic way, like he realized he had lied in counseling and knew it hurt me. But last night I asked him directly what he meant by that, and he said that it was absolutely not an apology, not an admission of wrong. Quite the contrary he meant, you can't get away with this, cuz when you lie to them, Renae, I have to tell the truth!! (GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!) I think H really did realize wrong for a brief moment, then a couple days later denies it! He's done that before!<P>That night after counseling, H called me to the basement "to talk". He was verbally forcing me to get rid of my negative thinking about us and start doing as pastor said!!!!<BR>He emphasized that separation is equal to divorce, God hates divorce and it's a sin, and we're going forward! He kept getting more and more verbally abusive after that (cutting me down, etc.), so I grabbed a small bag I had packed earlier along with my keys and ran out to the car, locked myself in there and started pulling out of the garage. H was not far behind me, trying to stop me and told the kids to reach for the door opener, trying to prevent me from leaving, but I made it out. I was so nerved up from his preaching and anger, that I could hardly drive but made it to our old house and bolted the door. I cried, talked out loud, whatever it took to get out of me the pain within. I thank God I got to that house!!!!!! It felt like I was away from him forever, and I gradually I unwound and felt peace...just me and God. I listened to some inspiring music and went to bed. The next day he came over there to fix windows and treated me with respect and gentleness. I could not stay at that house because we had a court hearing against the x-attorney & I had to be there. <P>Now he knows I will get away from him.<BR>I will not put up with any more abuse. <P>Last night he demanded talk again and it just escalated to abuse again and I was tense all night and unable to concentrate today. I need to get back to the other house after dinner tomorrow. <P>My parents wrote and want to come visit us sometime this month and come here for Christmas. I don't know what to do about that.... <P> <P><BR>