<small>[ October 13, 2002, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: coolloginname ]</small>

I guess my question is? Why did you get married if you didn't love each other? Have you two tried counseling or reading books to see what there might be that you could build upon to have a meaningful marriage?
Alan

<small>[ October 13, 2002, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: coolloginname ]</small>

coolloginname,

What a strange post. I don't really understand your problem. You say she loves you, you love her by choice, you have a child together, she is a good and Godly woman, 'but the way she engages life grates me to the core.' What do you mean by that?

Also, what do you mean when you say you 'don't want to talk to her unless the converstaion is extremely real'? It seems to me that the two of you have 9 out of 10 things going for you (90%); that's pretty good odds. Better that most of us here have. There is something missing from this picture...don't know what?.. The fact that you don't like her touching you is revealing as well. I wonder if the problem isn't more withing yourself somehow? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Also, as you yourself acknowledged, she's going to be much more hurt and devastated when you suddenly decide to leave for no apparent reason, than if you just talked to her about it. Tell her what bugs you; communicate!

Marriage to ANYONE is going to be about 'patiently choosing to love' them at times. There is no easy fast-track to wedded bliss. Focus on all the positive things you DO have and go from there. Please don't give up. All the best things in life do take effort - that's what makes them so precious. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Cool,
It sounds like you have the seven year itch. All marriages go through these spells, some every seven days!
No one finds heaven on Earth. This is an imperfact world with imperfact people who are contiously going through changes. If you were always happy and feeling in love, one may wonder what medication you are on.
You may not know it, but your wife may feel the very way you do at times, but chooses to love and live the life that she has to the fullest. Happiness is not what we find outside of ourselves usually-although a neww car right now would be very pleasant to me! Happiness is found in what you give back.
You could leave her if you want to. What do you think that you would find? Your condition could be much, much worse than it is.
Have you watched the movie"The Family Man?"
keep posting here and read other threads and perhaps you will develope a grateful spirit which is essential to true happiness.

<small>[ October 13, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: coolloginname ]</small>

Hi CLN,

After reading your post I wouldn't say you have any marriage problems at all between husband and wife, but I think you have more personal issues to deal with within yourself, as you said yourself " You have an Adulterous heart"!!

You're asking for trouble....

The happiness you are seeking is all right their in you, your wife and home.

Mature love is an action and not a feeling.

From reading your post I think a lot of you words are coming from a man who's heart is straying toward another type of woman you have gazed upon thinking the grass will be greener on the other side thinking you'll be happier because you feel like she or they fit your type of lifestyle.....

I think its deception and selfishness. I think you are being tempted by evil to destroy yourself and your wife and son.

Also within your lifestyle you are an very isolated person feeling disconnected from society, from what you posted some is by work but I wonder if some is by some religious belief? Being disconnected will make you feel like you're missing out on something in life, you have to be balanced, gazing on another women thinking how it might be outside your home is not the answer.

You said this is not everything thats happening but just some of it.....

I think you need to come clean in your heart from the Adulterous mind set before you make any move, get some help and counseling.

Quote:

"This leading to the problem lying with me; I don't deny. I have wreaked havoc on our marriage already with an adulterous heart. I long for the type of woman I am attracted to. Of course she wants to be that woman"

CLIN,

Your story sounds so similar to mine. My stbxh and I were once very involved in church and sunday school. We had been blessed with so many good friends. We had a beautiful son after being married two years and before dating two years.

I thought everything was great until....I found out he had an adulterous affair with woman I call ms. monkey. Funny thing, I am his type of woman and very attractive. He just saw me as a real woman living day to day and not the fantasy that an affair carries with it. Funny thing now, after losing his M, becoming a weekend single dad, his mistress BROKE UP WITH HIM THREE MONTHS AGO. He threw away his life for someone else and it was so apparent to all from the start when the A was revealed that this affair had no solid foundation. Was built on quicksand. He is so far gone now. A mere shell of the man I once knew. He is unrepentant and so selfish I can barely look at him when he drops our son who is 4 off.

I can remember when he would stay out all night and not tell me where he was or what he was doing. Our precious baby would wake up in the morning screaming for his daddy. Daddy wasn't there and hasn't been for over a year.

An adulterous heart is not what I truly fear is going on here. Confess and let us know if you are indeed being burdened and torn by being in an affiar. I feel that you are somehow. By being here we will not judge you, but won't give fuel to flame that desire either. Families are important. Marriages are the start of families. My STBX even gave me same excuses. There is even a list of excuses WS's give in LMBT by Dobson near end of book. You are giving one of them now. The "we were never meant to be" disclaimer. You rationalize the sin and poof! It is suddenly ok to rip a family apart.

Please read my posts and see what happens. See what divorce does. It is awful and ugly. It is in my opinion, one of the cruelest things one can do to another they pledged their life to just because they are too used to them or find them not a challenge anymore. The greatest slice of pie if you have it every day can be boring. So then you look around and DECIDE TO EAT CAKE. Don't become a cake eater.

See if we ca n help ok?

<small>[ October 13, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: coolloginname ]</small>

Wow! Cool!

I had a lot of trouble understanding the nature of the problem until reading the replies to other posts- this is so unreal, I think I know what you're talking about-

I recently broke up with a woman I'd been seeing for a month, sice I noticed an unnerving habit she has of NEVER challenging me verbally (although I read it in her eyes), going along with whatever I say, NEVER offering a contrary opinion, etc, etc...
She is just so DAMNED AGREEABLE! She is HEAVILY into conflict avoidance, and is also a people-pleaser. To interact with her just became downright NERVE-WRACKING! Like you, I longed for a REAL conversation with her. Everything she said was just so downright diplomatic. I had the feeling, though, that she VERY MUCH had an opinion, but was just contently smug in keeping it to herself, and imagining that she could read everybody's minds (including mine). After a while, I actually found this extremely annoying, and really disrespectful (insulting even). I considered asking her to go to couple-counselling with me, since I really liked her otherwise, we had SUCH a lot in common in the way we viewed things, likes, dislikes, books, music, parenting, etc..

She had suffered abuse during her marriage- her husband used to beat her up at the slightest provocation- she admitted once that she had "learnt" to shut-up & do as she was told- including saying nothing about the fact that he slept with all her friends, and cousins. I could understand where it came from, but in the end, ANY discussion with her was steeped in this "people-pleasing" quicksand.

It frustrated the SH*T outa me. I wanted to strangle her sometimes! I BEGGED her to offer her TRUE opinion on something, or to say EXACTLY what was on her mind, or to tell me WHAT it was she wanted. However, when she did, the habit of internalising was so firmly entrenched in her, she would decide BEFORE the time, that whatever she had cooked up in her head, was the TRUTH, even if it was an assessment of something she knew very little about. Like she was in her own little world, where she had her opinion, and it was the right one. Meaningful discussion or debate with her therefore became meaningless, and frustrating. Having only been seeing her a month, I decided to call it quits.

You, however, have been married a while. Many people don't believe counselling can help, they have all sorts of preconceived ideas. You should, however, embark on it, and convince your W to join you. Come clean about the EA to her. It may have the effect of WAKING HER UP! You also owe it to her to be honest. I hope you haven't posted here, having already decided on your course of action, and seeking validation. Keep an open mind. You have to know that the EA person needs to be DUMPED, OK? You are betraying your W's intimacy. GRAB her by the scruff of the neck (metaphorically speaking) and maybe show her this thread of yours, to try to win her over, and make her understand where you are coming from. Lots of people (esp people-pleasers) will have answers ready, and don't even listen properly when you talk to them. Try writing a letter, or print this whole thread out, and let her readt it, when you are NOT in the room (or the house).

Your W sounds like a classic people-pleaser. Lots of women are. Try very HARD to get through to her. Counselling can DEFINITELY work. Dump the EA. Tell her you need time out to work on your Marriage.

good luck
muzohead

Cool,
Our circumstances are similar from the "church/religious belief" stand point. My husband was a leader in our church. We also felt it was God's will to be married (and I still do). I think some of your disillusion comes from where you might be with God right now too. Obviously you're wrestling with feelings that you know aren't pleasing to Him. You know you're engaged in thoughts that are contradictory to what you've been taught and what the Bible says. Your commitment to marriage is still there; that's GREAT! But at the same time, thinking of a lifetime of "blah" right now doesn't look appealing.

I imagine you wouldn't want to talk to a minister, especially your own. Is that correct? I would suggest an appointment or two with Steve Harley here at Marriage Builders. While he is a Christian, he doesn't hammer you over the head with that fact at all. His counseling is very sound, and he has dealt with many couples going through what you are. I really think he'd understand your dilemma and be able to help you AND your wife. Would she be open to any counseling?

Cool - your are in a marriage itch that is draining your emotions. My STBXWH had a sexual affair, and with another woaman who had 2 sexual affairs in her long term marriage (28) and my husband thinks she is the most honorable woman in the world. To tell you the truth, this woman is nothing great to speak about, and with all the foul language my husband father did to me and the kids, it is pure ugly. My H doesn't know what he has done to all of us, doesn't actually care, is doing exactly what you are doing. You are being quite selfish, and I feel you are experiencing a crisis, look at your loving wife, you say you love her, she is wonderful, you have a beautiful child, why are you ready to just throw this away, and look elsewhere. What about your vows, seems your wife has kept her vows, but what about you? Is this what you want your child to learn?

Divorce turns ugly in 99% of the cases. Ours is very ugly, H is controlling, still calls me a F.....BI*ch so many times. Doesn't speak nicely to his mother, is a controller big time, and tearing us all apart.

He posts here once in a great while, and he posts on DivorceBusters quite a bit. He has been posting for nearly 2 years, about what is love, what is oneflesh, what is marriage, why does one have to stay married, why can't we learn from this marriage and move on. All the classic statements you are saying. Wish you could feel the hurt, that I have in my heart, the hurt our children are experiencing, the hurt that his mother feels, and family. Divorce destroys, splits hearts, brings fear, causes anger, and more. Believe us, who are telling you that divorce is so ugly. Yes, my H would love if I followed his every word. He is the one who had an affair, and when asked to leave this house, he wouldn't. He said he lives here, and the counselors told him to get out. But no, I wish at that point I had left. If to do it over, I would of not stayed, to have him talking to his munchkin in our home, on the phone, we all could hear him, in the bathroom talking to his munchkin. Go anywhere, and his cellphone would vibrate and it was her. Yes, I am angry, and yes, I am sick of this whole thing. He controlled every step and is still controlling.

Look into your mirror, and see the man you gave to your wife. Look at your child, you two created this child with love, and admiration towards each other. Don't do what is killing the rest of us.

Sermon today at church was very good. GODS Love frees me to FORGIVE juast as in Christ God forgave us. Ephes. 4:32. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

GODS help for relationships starts in ME! Throw-off the old evil nature every day. EPHES. 4:21 If you have really heard his voice and learned from him the truths concerning himself, then throwoff your old evil nature--the old you that was a partner in your evil ways--rotten trhough and through, full of lust and sham.

GODS Love frees me to be a giver not a taker! Ephes. 4:28 He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. -----Don't use the word you! Don't point fingers! Say, "I feel, I see," set a time to discuss the subject the next day. Never go to bed angry, set a time, and make sure that time is met to discuss issues.

Her is what we said in prayer:
Pastor: O God, Thank you that you are a God of love who keeps no record of wrong.
Men: Forgive us for keeping score.
Women: Forgive us for harboring anger and bitterness.
Men: Forgive us for not being people of peace and forgiveness.
ALL: Forgive us for every offense we have committed by our thoughts, and words and actions. YOu would be just in judging us guilty and divorcing us for eternity but we beg for your forgiveness for the sake of Jesus suffering, death, and resurrection.

Here is a great song we sang:
POWER OF YOUR LOVE by Geoff Bullock
Lord, I come to You, let my heart be changed, renewed, Flowing from the grace, That I found in you-
Lord, I've come to know, the weaknesses I see in me, Will be stripped away, By the power of Your Love

Chorus -
Hold me close, Let your love surround me
Bring me near, draw me to your side
And as I wait, I'll rise up like the eagle
And I will soar with You, Your Spirit leads me on
In the power of your love
Lord unveil my eyes, let me see you face to face.
The knowledge of your love, as you live in me.
Lord renew my mind, asyour will unfolds in my life.
In living everyday, in the power of your love.

Just some things to really think about, please look at what we all are saying. You two seem to have it in your marirage to have a blessed marriage. Look at what you could destroy, please reconsider your thoughts, and pray for guidance from God.

Cool,

Believe it or not I know how you feel. There was a time about 5 years ago when I felt asif I didn't love my hsband any longer. I also had an
adulterous heart. I was not a christian at the time but I cried out to God because I wanted to love my husband. I didn't want to go thru a divorce. I had been married any divorce before and here I was not wanting to touch my husband.

I never had an affair. I questioned if love was even real. I thought why do we love and then fall out of love or start looking around? I wanted a soul mate that would love me no matter what. One that I was attracted to. I begin to think that true love didn't exsist.

Then slowly God gave me a love for my husband that
was like none I had experienced before. I had a true unconditional love for my husband. I praise God for showing me this love, because it is real and will never go away. Love like this can only come from God.

My marriage problems didn't end here though. I had hurt my husband and he did not know how to take my new found love for him. Things got worse because I had broke his heart.

Today I am believing God will restore my marriage. I have given my life to God and I know he has work to do in me and my husband.

I have no interest in anyone but my husband. I am thankful to know this kind of love, even if it has meant my heart breaking the past 2 years.
God has use this to bring me closier to Him.

Please ask God to give you unconditional love for your wife. Ask God to put a desire for your wife in your heart before her heart turns cold. Because losing her may hurt far worse than you know.

gentle

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>