OK well I am divorced as many of you know it isn't final yet but we have been to court and everything - we were actually commended by the judge for having such a civil divorce for the sake of our children - girls - 9 and 12 - so he now lives in an apartment - I don't know if he is with anyone or not - but the woman in question after all of this time has turned out to be the lady next door - who by the way still lives there - very difficult for me ( I am putting up a fence this week) - OK so here in lies my problem and my current issue - he wants us to be best friends and actually has a hard time realizing that this is hard for me - He still comes in my house but he doesn't hang around as much - he still calls me to ask me for advice - on oh just about everything - So now yesterday he got a new car -and me being the idiot I am was thinking that oh he probably didn't have anyone to show it to - I will call him and see if he got it - etc... Well I called him and wouldn't you know he was at a bar - wow - he says he is happy because now he can do whatever he wants 24 hrs. a day... Anyways - he kind of makes me feel like crap when I called so - I just said like ok bye and he says see ya - which I don't know rubbed me the wrong way - and I ended up calling his house crying - saying I cannot believe how much you make me feel like a piece of crap everyday - how did I ever stay with you all 19 yrs -?? and I hung up it was the answering machine - well he called me at 1:00am and basically had me hysterical for hours - - telling me that yes he cheated but - I wouldn't trust him and this lead to the demise of our marriage - he says that he is finally seeing a counselor (I don't believehim) he says the counselor says that I shouldn't have known any details about his affair - etc... - See I believe half of my problem is that even though we are divorced - I am not sure if he was with the neighbor the whole time or not??? And it drives me crazy..... he says he hasn't abandoned his children - he sees them for an hour on Tuesday and overnight on Friday - he says that he is human and he deserves to be happy to??? Now if he was unhappy before no one knew except maybe the lady who lived next door and what was wrong with talking to her - If it was so innocent why was it a big secret??? Now ok there is so much more - but how do I make myself not talk to him - so I don't crazy - My sister believes I am driving myself crazy because I am trying to be his friend which is what he wants when I am really angry - though I am still not getting angry at him..... Basically it is over - why can I not let it go??? Does anyone one have any experiences with this ???? Please HELP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

maw64,

You have friends, don't you? Do you make them feel like a piece of crap everyday???? If they did treat you like crap would you still be their friend?

You should care enough about yourself not to let yourself be treated this way. By calling him and answering his calls, letting him into your house as he wills, etc., you are letting him violate your boundaries.

Care about what you think and what you feel, not about what he thinks and feels. He is a big boy and can take care of himself. Let him.

Hi MAW,
My divorce was final in August. My XH never admitted to a PA with the OW (met on internet). I hear and feel your pain. I believe what you are going through - we all go through during our recovery. Are you seeing a therapist? I highly recommend that. If it weren't for therapy and me working on me - I wouldn't be as far as I am in my recovery. Our circumstances are much different because I don't have any children and now believe my XH moved out of our city, however this isn't really about them anymore, it's about us.

Even though I'm not married anymore, I'm still in plan A. Plan A is and was for me. It's about being true to yourself and being the best you can be. Not for anyone else - just you.

It sounds as if your X is still cake eating, just in a different way. He wants to have his fun and still be best friends with his X. In time, that could possibly work, but not now.

You can do it MAW - you are a strong woman!!!!

Another book I recommend is "the four agreements" it's a very easy read.

TAke care girly - keep posting!

Hugs,
Llama

Harelquin - You are right I am not friends with people who make me feel like crap - and he really does not accept the boundaries - I keep asking him to take his stuff out of my cellar and he cannot do that - it is all about him yet he says that I am selfish - and I want what I want - ya right !!! You are right about not respecting myself I guess I just get all twisted when talking to him - I listen to the woe is me story and I feel bad... I need to let him take care of himself... You are right - thank you

Llama - thanks - Plan A is right I need to work on myself but I get so down in the dumps some days - I don't want to talk to him - then I get upset when he doesn't care if he ever talks to me again...it is like I didn't exist and the same goes for our marriage - but I guess that is because I was so blind sided by everything and my self esteem is out the window and I need to see him because I have kids.... I will check out the four agreements - and thank you for your support also - I am going to do Plan B but with A also...

I've already told you my take on this situation...with friends like that, who would need enemies?

What did I do about the stuff in the garage? I said..."your boat and the remainder of your belongings are at the curb. The garbage runs on Tuesdays." You should have seen him out there, sulking and stomping in the rain, trying to rescue his porno magazine collection.

I don't allow contact at all that doesn't concern our son. How do you expect him to learn anything if he can have everything he wants? I am peaceful and kind...but totally unavailable. He can't abuse me anymore...he'll have to find someone else to blame for his whole miserable life.

OK the new me - I like your attitude I need to adapt to that way of thinking - I have been sitting here contemplating calling and telling him not to come in my house - and to get rid of his stuff by Saturday but that would require me to talk to him - and I don't want to give him the satisfaction.... You are right I should just let him blame someone else for his miserable life - because the one we were leading was not so miserable - Now how did you finally come to terms to do that??? I just find myself afraid of him going away for ever - but he is already gone I know this but it is just so hard - and especially when he believes that I am the one being mean - that I am the one trying to hurt him by telling him how hurt I am ????

Maw,

It's not your fault.
It's not your fault.
It's not your fault.

Don't accept the blame. Don't feel guilty for taking care of yourSelf. That is not selfish.

Most people guilty of a crime are the ones that accuse others of that crime. The selfish one accuses the one who sacrifices of being selfish. This brings on guilt in the sacrificer and the guilt causes the sacrificer to once again - sacrifice.

Don't let him do this to you. You are a strong woman and you can manage on your own. Right??

Harlequin - Yes I can definately manage on my own - this has never been my choice and I know in my heart that this isn't my fault but to listen to him - my god he is so manipulative - I really walk away thinking my god am I that bad a person??? I mean he has been lying to me for over a year - I mean not one lie but everything from sleeping with someone to going to the store to buy cigarettes - I honestly don't think he knows the truth... I don't want to blame myself and I really don't but the one thing that I have figured out is that I am not nearly as strong as I thougth I was - If I was I probably would have stood up for myself a long time ago....Sacrafice that is what I have been doing for a long time.... I guess I am done - I need to get stronger for my girls and myself -

MAW...

That is exactly why I had to cut him off...he had lied, lied, lied for years...now he was ready to leave with this new friend...and he tried to CHANGE OUR HISTORY. We had many good years, but he reached a point where he was not satisfied with his life, so obviously it must be me. He wanted to make sure I understood that I had failed HIM, and wanted me to know all my shortcomings and why I'd forced him to leave. It takes two to tango, but the things he was saying just weren't true. I wasn't perfect, but I wore myself to a frazzle trying to be, since he demanded it at all times. I didn't sneak, lie or cheat, so I guess it must've been my morning breath that did it...no. I'm not buying into it.

He fluctuates between whining for me to forgive him and being angry with me, I guess for not telling him how right he is...I really should've managed to look fantastic while working 60 hours a week, managing house, car and yard maintenance, raising the child and being available for "romance" on call...and he says I'm ignoring him. He's right there!

The new me = Wow my husband has tried to change our history considerably - he says he hasn't been happy for ten years - I knew that - ya ok - then why did we just build a house two years ago ??? I mean he doesn't want forgiveness from me - he wants to be free to be able to do what he wants when he wants - and not have to answer to anyone - I mean he is 37 almost 38 - we had a good life we had everything - then the part about not abandoning his children is a joke - my twelve year old is like mortified - she is like Dad wants to spend quality time with me now - when he lived here I didn't even talk to him - point taken - but I basically walk around feeling sorry for him - and I don't want to - I know I deserve better - Now I cannot remember are you divorced yet????

That's different from me...I don't feel a bit sorry for him...as a matter of fact, I started a new Christian councellor to try to learn to forgive and let go. No, here in NC we can't divorce until we've been separated a year...that will be January 14. I will let him file, since it's his idea.

I know your 12 year old is mortified...my X, who left me for all my shortcomings, brought his "not" girlfriend with him to a taekwando function 3 weeks after he moved out. Apparently that's enough of a grieving period for 1/2 our lives. Was promptly told by mutual friends that he'd moved her out of her husband's house the weekend after he'd left...and apparently they'd spent the weekend he left at the beach! But no, now, it wasn't another woman, was it. It was just me. Son promptly quit Taekwando...X wants to know why? What does Son say about it?

One thing I'm reading on these posts that I'm learning alot from is how to relate where my son's involved. My son knows entirely too much about the situation and calls his dad a "p**is with feet", which instead of doing the correct thing and reprimanding him, I promptly crack up. I have to get enough forgiveness in me to make sure my son does not feel torn in two...

The new me - I wish I had some of your anger - though I did just chuck an insurance card at his head because I went to pick up my antidepressants and they said I wasn't on the policy anymore - so I went to see him he was waiting for my daughter at flute lessons - I asked to use his phone and he started changing numbers - so that just freaked me out - he is such a lying son a b*tch - I just want the whole truth and nothing but the truth ... And I don't think I will ever get it... I am off back to the pharmacy - I really need this medicine and I believe they have figured it out finally....

Maw 64,

You need to cut off all contact with him as the others have told you. Nothing you do will be right in his eyes. EVERYTHING everyone here has posted is so dead on to my situation as well. I really do believe there must be a script out there somewhere that all the WS follow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Your WH has to blame you for all the wrong, because if it wasn't your fault, then whose is it? I think the ugliness of carrying on such deception must be debilitating, and they have to shift that away from themselves, so as to justify their actions and be able to live with themselves. My WH also accused me of 'not trusting' him, and used that as a big part of why he left....for OW! Dah! They are playing mind games with us, and the best way to avoid that is to severe ALL contact except what's necessary. I truly believe that if the marriage is to be reconciled, it will happen, but NOT according to our agenda.

I totally agree with the advice already given: be courteous and kind, but NO MORE. Don't allow him that power over your well-being. In the end that is much more attractive in any case, than begging and pleading. My WH told me he 'didn't respect me enough to work on our marriage' just before he left. In hindsight I wonder sometimes if that isn't because I let him lead me on for 3 YEARS, trying to trust him. He played me for a total fool.

You deserve better, way better! So do I, so does everyone else posting here. Let's BE better first. With God's love and grace we WILL be better people thru all this. It's such an amazing comfort to me to read on these boards of all the people there are that still DO believe in TRUE love and committment and integrity and honour. All of our WS out there have lost that: I truly believe they sold their souls to the devil for their 'moment' of glory. As a friend of mine just reminded me the other day - REALITY IS ONLY FOUND IN THE TRUTH. WE here all are living in the truth. Our WS are sadly wandering around in a hell of their own making. Really, they're to be pitied.

Stay strong, and stand up for yourself. You don't deserve this treatment, so don't accept it!

Natasha79 - Thank you very much for the kind words... I know that I do not deserve this - but you know tonite he came over to get the kids - he just walked in an expected me to talk to him and I didn't really and I could tell he was mad..But I am so done - really you are right - I want to be loved and appreciated - I didn't do anything wrong - I may not be perfect but I never claimed to be - no marriage is perfect but no one should have to live through being cheated on and manipulated... I mean it is bad enough when you are dating but when you have been married for fifteen and together for 19 and have two beautiful children - then it is devasting... I am going to work on myself now - and try not to talk to him only on an as needed basis as everyone has told me... I am going back to Curves I haven't gone an excercised this week because I have been so down - but I am now going to concentrate on trying to find happiness for me and not worry about him - it is his loss - thank you...

Maw,

What about plan B? Sounds like you can leave him on a very good note, maybe do a good A for two weeks then SLAM IT SHUT. I have to do B b/c of keeping myself from getting hurt and protecting my self and whatever feelings are left?

Your xH is also a GREAT BIG DEVIL'S FOOD CHOCO CAKE EATER LIKE MINE IS. Tell him no more cake. No more cake. You have to go cold turkey so you won't be feeling that anymore.

And you should not be afraid to "get things out in the open now" with ms. next door/back door girl. I would do that. Heck, I have spoken with monkeyho several times and I took charge of that situation. Be the woman here, and let them, him both know that you do not BAKE ANY MORE CAKES. He can eat pie with her now. You are saving your cakes for someone who is a conoisseur of fine desserts, not your xH. Cut him off. PLEASE GO OVER PLAN A AND B HERE AND ALSO READ LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. REPEAT IT...LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. You are not his best friend anymore just as my stbxh wants and believes after all he has done without any REMNANT OF WANTING TO RECONCILE OR REPENT THAT I WILL WANT SUDDENLY TO BE HIS BEST FRIEND NOW.

Are we just a "bed buddy", are we someone they can "feel comfortable with"? What about their utter unahppiness. Tell him you are unhappy now, when it comes time to the B. Send him the Plan B letter in great form. Have it delivered by certified mail to make sure he gets it. Make it formal since the divorce was informal. Be loving but tough now girl. And let the next door gal know "this ain't three's company". Don't LB, but be firm and show them you are wise now.

Do 2 weeks of a good, strong A and then DO THE B. SEND THE LETTER. IT IS TIME FOR AN EMOTIONAL DIVORCE FROM KING CAKE EATER.

maw64,

What you said is SO TRUE. The whole situation gets so unbelievably warped! When did we ever promise our spouses we would be perfect? When were THEY ever perfect? Everything you said resonates so deeply with me. By the time my WH left me, I was feeling bad about almost Everything. Second guessing my every thought, doubting my instincts, beating myself up for not being able to TRUST him, etc. I almost lost my soul trying to prove to him that I was worthy. NO ONE should have to go to those lengths. I FINALLY figured out the problem was with HIM, not me. I know, as you do, that I did my utmost to try and believe him, wanted nothing more than to be there for him in his need, and he abused that love for him in the cruelest fashion possible.

I don't know your story completely (how long you've been apart) but stop that abuse now. NO MORE CONTACT. If he can't treat you with the respect you deserve as the mother of his children, and the woman he married, then he has no business bothering you. You go girl! Work on yourself, and feel good about YOU. God is with you, and wants you to prosper. I'll pray for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Peachy - I am going to try the a with the B - I am basically waiting until this weekend when he is supposedly getting everything out of the shed and cellar - I am putting up a fence between me and the lady next door - this weekend - She knows how I feel - yet they both deny it - it may not be going on now but something did - I just cannot talk to her I am so uncomfortable - and I wish I didn't care if they were together but unfortunately I do - I know that I must go back and reread a and b - first thing tomorrow...

Natasha - my story is one of twists and turns but to be brief - last August he started acting wierd so I started teasing about a girlfriend - jokin - well on Oct 12 - he said yes I have one -he said he wanted to make it work - but he would come home drunk everyday and would never tell me anything or if he did it was a huge lie - well - come November 30 - I listened to his voice mail and there was a message from a woman talking about his cell phone bill - he had shown it to me earlier - and her number was on it - like a million times - but he said it was over - well I freaked and told him me or her - he said she was someone he met at a donut shop - so I have this number for months come January it is disconnected.. Ok fine - things are really rough because I want answers - he want go to counseling and he is drinking all of the time - well then to speed along - he had moved out and back and out and back - very emotional horrible situation - well in April - I got his new voice mail code from my telephone - he had called in the next day I check for messages I figured finally I will be able to trust him and let it go - well five messages from the lady next door who was my friend and the last one was Hi hon its me I thought we were gonna hook up I guess were aren't going to - I really wanted to I will talk to you later - OK I went over there and almost killed her - they denied everything a friendship mind you - then about 3 weeks after that I find out her cell phone # had been changed in January and her old one was the # that was the original girlfriends - but they still deny it - supposedly just friends - well after that fiasco he said he wanted a divorce because I couldn't come to him first I had to run off and accuse her - so we just went on 9-18 - and I am still having that hard time letting go - everytime she drives out of the driveway I freak - oh and by the way she is getting divorced also - but yet everyone still denys - you wonder why I am crazy and freak out and cannot sleep half of the time???

maw64,

Our stories are SO similar in many ways. All the lies and deceptions,... In my case the OW is feeding her biological family some BS about how she and my WH were just 'friends' supporting each other whilst going thru similar strife in their marriages. It's almost funny it's so ludicrous. They are living in an altered sense of reality, and don't seem to know 'up' from 'down' anymore. And trying to understand it or figure it out just makes us crazy too! It's crazymaking. I'm learning to TOTALLY detach from who WH is now. I think it's the only way to preserve any sanity. These men ARE NOT our husbands anymore. At this point they are mere shells of who they were and could have been. So, just to keep encouraging you - try to detach as much as possible and focus on you and your kids. Take care of yourself, and do things JUST FOR YOU. That is certainly one of the positives of being on our own. Don't have to do anything we don't want. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Hang in there, and pray lots. Good night.

Natasha - that is to funny because my husband is feeding me the isn't ok that I have someone to talk to about our problems - and I also got the you told me to talk to someone before I found out that he had been talking for a year...You are right I need to detach - I actually do better when I don't have to see him - but I see her like everyday and the first thought that comes to mind is B*tch I hope you rot in H*ll and I don't like feeling like that - But I am putting up a fence - mind you just down one side two divide the two houses - actually I hoping she feels about 2" high - the entire neighborhood knows what is going on - and actually most of the people don't like her because you know it could have been there husband that she was talking to - Its funny that you said they don't know up from down - I usually say he doesn't know fact from fiction - are you proceeding with your divorce???

maw64,

I'm not filing for divorce, but I've asked him to. My reasoning is that He's the one that left and is involved with OW, he's the one that doesn't want to attempt reconciliation, so he's the one that should PAY for the divorce. I've asked him to file, as I want closure and the 'legal' freedom to move on with someone else, should God choose to put someone else in my life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I still love him and am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that our marriage could have been a GREAT marriage had he not chosen to violate it with an affair. ALL of the problems within our marriage were completely solveable with two committed spouses. But, he chose to make ALL our problems MY problem of not being able to accept his female 'friend' (alias mistress), so I have no choice but to grant him his freedom. I strongly believe that he also will one day emerge from the fog, and realize what he lost. God is building up my confidence daily, and I KNOW now that I am a good woman, who would have done almost ANYTHING for her man, short of allowing another woman in our marriage. For the past many years, I've felt there were THREE people in our marriage, and I WILL NEVER EVER GO THAT ROUTE AGAIN!

NEITHER SHOULD YOU. If you 'know what you know' it's time to put boundaries in place. Don't be at the point of wishing you were dead before you finally let go. You are much too beautiful and worthy to God (and all who know you) to demean yourself to that point. NO MAN is worth losing your soul and integrity over.

You deserve what every person in a loving marriage deserves: mutual respect, mutual trust, and mutual comittment to the marriage FIRST above all else. When a spouse manipulates any of these areas to their exclusive interest, THAT IS A WARNING SIGN. I hope if nothing else, I can help others 'smell the roses' so to speak a little quicker than I did. I will hold you in my prayers. Keep praying, and don't let your WH hold you down. Do what you have to do to be healthy. None of what they do is healthy for anyone, and I firmly believe plan B is the place to be, at least for me.

We WILL survive, and even thrive! with or without our WS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />