Natasha - is that really your name - it is really a beautiful name?? Anyways - Oh about the divorce thing - I also told him if he wanted a divorce then he could file - but you know what that went no where and I like you needed some sort of plan - I did not like limbo land whatsoever - anyways - we filed jointly - meaning that I retained a lawyer and she represented me - but helped us as a couple but talked to me and stood with me in court and the only reason was that because if she represented both of us and we got into a dispute she wouldn't be able to represent either one of us - - Ok so I just talked to him - and I told him I am always gonna love you - but you know what I cannot deal with you - I can't have you coming in the house - I cannot interact with you - so he is going to beep now...when he picks up the kids - it will probably kill me - but I have to do it...

Maw,

Remember that before you go into B, do a great A. Think you did that. You need to send him the B letter as proof. Look thru site and read other plan B letters. If needed, have it sent via certified mail so he will have to sign for it.

Very important he see tht he can't weasel his way back. I am not sending one via mail, I sent mine by way of email last week. And he knows what is up.

Natasha, you are toooo sweet and such a wonderful friend. So blessed to know you. Let Him pay for the divorce.

Why are they so wacky..Fog is some mean kinda stuff.

maw64,

CONGRATULATIONS! GOOD FOR YOU! You have done yourself an amazing favour. It feels awful now I'm sure, but I really think you will start to feel MUCH better about yourself once the 'no contact' thing becomes routine. At least I know for me that's the best way. A few weeks ago we got back into some email contact and that threw me for a major nose-dive; I KNEW I shouldn't read anything into it, but we are SO VULNERABLE right now, that it's impossible for us NOT to hope. So, unless they mean serious business, I see no point in contact. Just my two bits worth anyways. I hope you feel real proud of yourself for doing the right thing. Lastly, I only WISH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Natasha were my real name. Have loved it as long as I can remember. Hang in there.!

NPiGA,

Thanks for your kind words. I remember you often in my prayers, and want to commend you again on your strength and gutsiness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Keep up the good work.

NPIGA - Thank you but you know what I don't think he would read a Plan B letter because as he says we are divorced - but I just need to reinforce that I don't want him in the house and I don't want to talk to him - I think he thinks he is doing me a favor by talking to me - but what he really doesn't see that everytime he tries to be friendly I am all the more screwed up - My kids god love them think that I am nuts - but I am surviving.... I hope things get better for you soon....

Natasha - Hey thank you !!! Yes today I actually feel pretty good about telling him not to come in - I mean really I am divorced and he walks into the house, sits on the couch, goes in the refrigerator and he has lost that right - Right??? And like I just said to NPIG - that he thinks he is doing me a favor by still talking to me - Even last night he said I don't think you want me driving in the driveway and beeping and I was like ya I do - You know someday I hope to be his friend - but not now - I need to get over him and move on - He isn't coming back - if he was we wouldn't be divorced... right???

Maw

You are so like me. So like alot of us. We want to find that glint of hope. It isn't there right now. Now I am not saying NEVER, I am saying now. And in order to maximize your CARPE DIEM, you must quit doing the CARPE DUMB, which is seizing the dumb guy and LETTING MR. FOGGY ONE MOOCH IN YOUR FRIDGE AND PUT HIS FEET UP ON YOUR COFFEE TABLE RELAXING ON YOUR COUCH ALL THE WHILE HE GETS TO EMOTIONALLY CONTROL YOU AND HAVE MORE CAKE ON THE SIDE.

Send the B Letter. Make it very legal looking and very formal. You've got to change your whole attitude and way of thinking. LMBT has a chapter on changing the attitude. You've got to make him rethink everything. But from a distance. You have to quit worrying about him. Do it. Stop this stuff. You want reinforcement that he is still loving and coming back? I love you as a friend and because I am in that same boat I can objectively say to you that YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT LIFE RIGHT NOW WITH BLINDERS ON. FORGE AHEAD. GET A NEW YOU. BUY SOME NEW CLOTHES. DO SOMETHING SO OFF KILTER, BUT RESPONSIBLY. And do NOT LET HIM KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN YOUR HEAD AT ALL COSTS. Cut him off now. Stop communication.

This is drowning you. Making your brain just freeze up when they do this. And this is no sweat to him. Just a "new kind of friendship". Isn't that what cake eaters call a divorce? DON'T BAKE ANY MORE CAKES. I've got to go to the gym and workout. I am not going to look like a woman who bakes cakes, anyhow. Wanna get a new me and a sexier me too.

Do this for you. We can't make you, and you keep backsliding. Go to a and b for support. Orchid is the MASTER OF THE B, WHICH SHE "PROVERBIALLY KEEPS IN HER POCKET AT ALL TIME". She can work it and can help you. But you gotta stop the roller coaster first. Only you can do it.

Peach - You are so right - I know that I am the enabler - that I feel sorry for him - and you know I used to think that I was strong but since all of this I just see myself as weak - But in my case it is kind of hard - because everytime the lady next door is gone I am like is she with him - and I kind of freak - You really think it is worth it to send the letter even though we are divorced - what was your husbands reaction???Its like I can honestly tell you that I don't like this man he is - but he is the master manipulator and he doesn't even think that he is - My girls and I are going to the airport tomorrow to pick up our new puppy - they usually go with him but not tomorrow - so I am sure he will be around sometime this weekend - though of course probably not to get his stuff out of the house - I cant move it all because it is his tools and stuff - and I have been doing stuff for myself - I get my nails done now - I went parasailing this summer - went away alot of weekend s- I am getting the puppy - I have painted like every room in my house - all trying to stand up by myself and be content with me...And it definately is a day to day struggle - so you think I should go with the letter huh??

Yes my good buddy. You should send a tough but loving B letter and STAND FIRM. I emailed the last one. Go to A and B and find some sample letters. Redhat or Orchid c an help you find a good one.

Get a friend's husband or some guy to help you move his stuff out. Remember the rules. No coming in to lounge about, pick your brain, etc. He is OUTTA BOUNDS until he comes out of fog. Still think you should have a positive confrontation w/next door neighbor. Let her know that you are sick of this and she can have him. That you are aware of what's been going on and no more secrets. And either put up the fence or move. I would let xH know that you mean business. Sure she will tell him, but that will only show the new you. She is foggy so be ready for denials, etc. But do not care and be focused. You just let her know you are wise and that she can have your scraps. But be a lady. That will zonk ol foggy boy into tomorrow, trust me. I did this very ladylike with OW and she called me later and begged my apology. I stood strong. Still do.

Show your xH that you are changing and you are starting with YOU. No room for him unless he changes his ways and commits to four rules of recovery and judge him by his actions. Foggy people like to say lots of things. Listen to actions only.

Good for you, manicures and pretty nails are first step to feeling like a new you. Parasailing is cool. Haven't done that in a few years. I started diving two years ago. Can't wait to go again. Cut him out, do the B but do it for YOU NOT HIM. Forget about him and have tunnel vision for a while. Either this will shock him into reality, or he will run in circles in the fog for a while longer. Meanwhile, you are becoming a babe and an exciting one also. And your neighbor will stay clear of you instead of you worrying about her. As they say in the Soprano's...Forgetta Boud it....Put his A's out of your mind. He is not your responsibility. No longer your burden to bear. That is his sin.

Work on you. Let's see how hard it will be for mr. foggy to catch up with you when he wakes up in ??? and sees the light. Just think that and cut him off. Either way you're better off.

Bet the puppy will be precious. Oh, this would be good. Have a date and have the guy pick you up at home. On a special occasion, have flowers sent to your home and have you not be there and ms. easy neighbor will have a field day... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey Peach - actually I have had it out with the neighbor quite a few times and she denies anything and you know so does he - the only thing that I have going is that I saw her soon to be ex yesterday and he said there was trouble with her keeping the house - I believe she has been layed off of her job for over 8 weeks - so I am just hoping she moves - it will be so much easier not to see her - I got my puppy and she is beautiful and of course what does ex husband do but come and see the puppy and I couldn't make a scene and tell him to leave but I am thinking he was nto feeling very comfortable I had a whole house full of people and I am thinking he must have felt left out - but that is what he wants right???-
So how are things going with Austin???

I am fuming mad while drinking an actually great bottle of merlot and dining on delivery sushi.

ARrrgh.

That was about Austin. Don't let him in. Write the letter and send it. Make sure he getis it Monday or Tuesday at latest. Just like in the song I will survive: go on now go, walk out the door, just turn around now cause you're not welcome anymore.

Don't let him keep doing this. I called Orchid today and told her you'd be trying to find her on A/B. She is great help and so good of a friend. I love her dearly. I am so happy about the puppy. He doesn't deserve to touch it.

So how was the Merlot and Sushi???? I cannot drink wine - Actually I am thinking most of my problem of not letting go and really being bummed out is that today October 12 - was one year ago that my world as I knew it came crashing down on me...So I have been in this hell for one year and I am already divorced - funny huh how some people live this way for years and others just get over with right away??? Actually I wish I was one of those people who were over it - I may be divorced but definately not over it...I have been up since about 3:00am no fault of my puppy she didn't start whining until 5:30 but I got up for her because she is new - !! I am still not sure about the Plan b letter because I could write it and send it but I am not sure I would be the one to follow it... I just need to let go.... What did Austin do???

Maw, my good buddy. I am sorry. Today is the anniversary of your D day. Mine was ironically on sept. 11. I cried and cried that day. LB and told Austin off that day.

Please, please go and find Orchid and Redhat on A and B. I have personally called Orchid via phone to let her know you will be contacting her. She can help yo do the best b. And what are you waiting for? This is the D day. Do something for yourself. Think D day as DO day. Glad puppy is good. But stop from being addicted to this negative treatment. Think today as DO day and Day your were let outta jail. Jail of pain. Let free from having to only open your heart to him. He closed that door. Today is for you.

You will have to cut him out. He is sucking your life away as mine tried to do. I am not going to allow it anymore. I have fun now. Sure I miss the OLD H i used to know, but not this wierd new guy, hence I call him Austin and even gave him an alter ego.

Detach from him. You have to or you will not get a good start. I am considering this impending divorce my ONE MULLIGAN IN LIFE. One do over. That is it. God frees us when our spouses do not repent from infidelity and leave us. I say get outta house. Do not have usual schedule. Go out tonight if you can. Make wH wonder. But do not wonder about him. Just say to yourself HE IS IN THE FOG. HE WILL DO BAD THINGS AND IT IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY. Leave him to God. work on you. Cut the rope and jump. It is ok. You will be fine.

Find out inside how you are reinforcing this behavior you know is wrong. You know you want to change, so why do you keep doing the same thing? I just read "Life Stragegies" by Dr. Phil. You are paying yourself emotionally off somehow, we all are when we KEEP DOING BEHAVIORS THAT KEEP US IN THE SAME PLACE. YOU WILL NEVER GET A DIFFERENT OUTCOME IN YOUR LIFE IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE AND DO SOMETHING ELSE. IF YOUR LIFE IS NOT WORKING THE WAY IT IS YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THE DYNAMICS. Taht part only you can do. I can't do it for you. Orchid or redhat can't either. But YOU CAN. TODAY IS THE DAY.

YOUR THOUGHT:

NO MORE CARPE DUMB GUY. ONLY CARPE DIEM. (no more seizing the memory of the old guy, only seize the new day ok)?

Peach - Well thank you for the encouragement - I will go over and post over there and ask Orchid for some guidance.... OK - So your husband has been doing the same to you huh??? Do you find it hard not to talk to him - I am very sarcastic most of the time I talk to him but you are right about how I have to cut myself off....I will go post now...

Maw,

If you are sarcastic to him, that is not attractive and a LB. I keep reminding myself that. I am in B and doing fine, really. I just do not keep him as a focus at all anymore.

You've got to get him out of being central focus.

Actually you are correct - I am going to get him out of concern - that is what I keep saying - once I kind of ignore him or whatever he actually gets aggravated - I just came home from going out with my sister nad bil and I was doing great until my bil informed me that - my neighbor wasn't home - so now I am freaked and like want to call him and see if he is home alone And I am not going to I swear though it is killing me because if I called and he was home he would answer..yikes - I posted to Orchid I need to go and reply - thank you for all of your concern... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong>I just find myself afraid of him going away for ever - but he is already gone I know this but it is just so hard - and especially when he believes that I am the one being mean - that I am the one trying to hurt him by telling him how hurt I am ????</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This really hit home with me. I have been feeling really down and mixed up lately and didn't know why until I read this and now I know this is why. It is that with all I've had to go through with my WH I'm still afraid of letting go. But you put it right -- he already is gone -- so I guess it doesn't matter.

I can totally sympathize with how you feel. My STBX had a PA with a coworker (and his subordinate employee). After we tried to work it out he still felt he wasn't happy anymore and wanted to leave. So he expects to be friends. I have since found out that he has rekindled the relationship with OW and is planning on spending Thanksgiving with her of all days (and even told me that he didn't want to take S for his 1/2 of the day because it would be "rough on S to go back and forth that day"..yeah right..more like it would cramp his single style) BUT he doesn't know I know about her (snooped some email). It has been eating at me so much lately to let him know I know how much of a scum he is but what use is it? I know I shouldn't even bother myself..just move on. But sometimes I still feel like this is all just a phase, a game of sorts and we'll be back together soon. Not that I'm even sure I even want him with how much he hurt me but still.

ANyway, sorry to ramble on your thread but just wanted to say thanks for the eye opener. I needed it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hopeless in AZ

Maw,

I think that you need MORE than what you are doing for yourself. You are in a tough spot in your life. YOU are not yet divorced, although he is and the law states that you are. I don't know how to get past this problem, but I can see that it is becoming or remains an obsession with you. Somewhere you MUST find closure with your Ex. I am not saying that you must give up all hope of reconciliation, but you will never be able to reconcile in the fashion that you are going. You are damaging yourself. He may be a part of it, but you are the one that is really hurting yourself at this point.

I know that it must be difficult seeing the Other Woman so often. I don't know what I would do if the same situation was occurring in my life. But you are allowing her to rule your life. You are allowing HIM to rule your life. By continuing to worry about whether they are together at any given time, you are allowing them to continue to rule your existence. YOU are hurting yourself MAW, not them. They are a mess of deception, but they can only deceive you if you care about what they are doing. I know that you care, but you are caring for the wrong reasons. You are trying to hold onto a life that once was. You see that the life was not real, but a fantasy. You see that your ex is no longer the person that your desired life was based on. You see that the neighbor is lying and that she can not be truthful with her husband either. But you still want to "make everything work".

I understand these feelings. I truly do. I understand the thoughts that "IF ONLY". But MAW, you are killing yorself. I absolutely recommend individual counselling if at all possible. If finances prohibit it, then get counseling at church or anyplace. You need someone that is supportive, but that can look critically at your situation and help you. Sometimes you can be supported right into the grave. Sometimes 'friends' can love you so much, that they want you to be happy and will not contradict how you are thinking. They won't say you are wrong, or they won't say, 'stop'. They only understand your side and they only understand what you have told them. (Please don't think that I am saying that you are untruthful.) What I mean is, that we all believe that we are right. We all believe that our sense of reality is the truth. But sometimes we need someone that is NOT from within our world to look critically at things and take another approach. The counselor may absolutely agree, or may be able to see things in a different light. But I seriously recommend seeing a counselor. It will be the best investment that you can make in yourself right now.

As for the telling him to stay out of the house, I applaud you. That is a first step. The fence I think is a great idea as well. But it is meaningless if you are going to go and peek through the knotholes. What I mean is that, if you are going to keep tabs on the neighbor, then the fence is just a waste of money that you could spend on a counselor, in my opinion. A fence is a physical barrier. You need to put up a barrier within your heart that will allow you to see her pulling out of her driveway, and where you have no thoughts or feelings about it what-so-ever. That is the true boundry that you need to construct. And that can only be completed within your mind and heart.

You are living a tenuous existence. You even said that your children feel that you are crazy. Well in a sense you are. You are living in a world in which you are no longer married, but where you are the only one that still feels that you are married. He does not, the law does not, your children do not. God may still feel you are, but that is something between you and him. I am not sure about how God feels about this type of situation. I wish that I did, for your sake and my own. But I absolutely know that where you are is not healthy, and that you CAN BE IN A BETTER PLACE.

Please look into a counselor, and if you have one, you need to either get another or go more often, because the place you are currently in is one that you need to get out of soon, or it is going to eat you alive.

Take care Maw. Stay as strong as you can and build upon that strength little by little, day by day.

Hopeless in AZ - I am glad I brought some light into what you are feeling and the only advice I have is read the next post by formerly confused -he has basically hit the nail on the head - And I know that I am the root of all of my problems now...

Formerly Confused - Thank you - I will say that when you read it in black and white and someone else is saying it - it all makes sense - And you are totally correct - I am doing this to myself but stopping it is the hard part... Now my family and friends are very critical of me - basically they sound like you - you are correct when you say that in every sense I am divorced except in my heart... I know that I have to let go. I am seeing a counselor I have been since March - he is great - he thinks that is ok they my ex and I get along he says everyone treats divorce differently but - he thinks that I need to care about myself and not my ex... And then I go to a womans group and can I just say for the record they really say it to me how it is... Again I really want to thank you - and I am going to think about what you have said everytime I feel the urge to talk to him - or anything - because AGAIN YOU ARE TOTALLY CORRECT......and I thank you....

FC you are so right, as usual.

Maw, if you are going to one of those new age counselors who believe in friendly divorce stuff, quit going to him/her. You need to go on with you. You've gotten off to a good start. Think the $$$ for the fence is wasted. Why even go to the trouble of putting it up? It is also a physical barrier for ow to see and makes her be the winner here. You are going to be the winner. You don't need a fence to show you're bigger than this. No mam.

Go to the gym. Release stress this way. When I started working out again this year, I felt lots of that repressed anger/hurt/betrayal thing leave. That with church, counseling has helped me. And my counselor now thinks I should actually get to moving on now. She believes in mb principles and gets willing couples to read hn/hn sometimes. But she even thinks I should start moving forward alot faster than I have. And you have the privilege of that divorce decree. You are freed from the prison of what if now. The Prison of What If has set you free. You didn't get the verdict you wanted, but you are free. And FC is right. The D is done. IT IS DONE IT IS FINISHED. God is only one who can resurrect the dead, and that includes dead marriages. You can still use mb principles whenever you have to deal with xH, but need to do a fast B and now. You did a good plan A, butit is no longer needed. You do plan B for you. Itis easy to do because it is a plan, a way to do things and much easier for me to have a plan or an approach to something. Don't like flying blind ever. So do this, and do as I do. Every two weeks or so, go somewhere you never did before. Or do something you've never done before. That is so great! Tonight I am going to go to big huge bookstore for a cup of coffee and puruse through lots of books and pick one to take home with me. Haven't done that in a long time. Like Dr. Phil has said in his book regarding life: "They are keeping score, there is a time clock, and the time will run out". So carpe diem my fair friend. No more worrying ABOUT PEOPLE AND THINGS YOU CANNOT CHANGE.

What is my major plan right now? I have started researching finding the perfect carribean cruise for son and I. Will do it late next spring/early summer. Am shopping around. Saving up slowly and am going to have my college 10 figure by then. Getting closer I must say and it feels good. Takes my mind off of things. When the urge to wonder/think about what or who Austin is with, I just think about the cruise and the new me. Guess I saw too many re runs of love boat..lol...But I want to see the open sea at night. Watch islands in the distane move closer. It is so wonderful. But you must find new things to focus on. You need to reach within and find the new girl you can become. Yes, as parents wepuy ourselves last, but do not deny the young woman within of happiness anymore. Do as FC said, and search for Orchid on A and B and let her help you design a good game plan for plan B. One that will help you free yourself from this guy and the memory. Today is today.

Peach - I actually have been doing new and different things for myself - like on Friday when I drove to the airport all by myself to pick up my puppy - a year ago I probably would not have even contemplated doing that - I actually am probably wasting time with the fence - but it is a new development - 2 1/2yrs old and it is wide open so actually regardless of the situation I was going to put something there and I was thinking along the lines of bushes but there is an easement there - so I couldn't really have the roots going into the underground tanks - and plus I want to keep my puppy in - and the added fact that I don't want to look at her - anyways - I did join Curves and I went for like two weeks and then last week I got depressed I think because of D day and I just stopped but I am going to start back up on Tuesday for me... I would also like to be that size 10 - I am actually saving to go to Florida with my daughters Dance School - she is in a competition team so she will dance at MGM - so we need to save... You and formerly confused are right - it is about me now - and frankly I need to accept that and go on - which I really plan to do - I have actually been thinking about going to the library - my kids love it there - and you know - I have been having a hard time reading - you know focusing and I used to read all of the time and I miss it.... I am going to maybe look into some self help books - you know Oprah style and start making me a better person - hey maybe I should try meditation - I will have to look into that - maybe get a new hobby - I tend to watch lifetime - not loveboat - maybe I should switch channels - anyways thanks again for all of your help - I know that I am the root of most of my worries - and I am trying to change that I hope with each new day - it gets better - thank you again...